CB Radios
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 23:10:24 -0800
From: ad366@lafn.org (Dana Adams)
Subject: All this talk about CB radios....
To: tlcal@tlca.org
Howdy all.
I used to (in another incarnation) sell, service, and install CB (and
other two-way) radios. So, I thought I might jump in and my two cents.
There was some discussion about antenna location. Generally, the higher,
the better. The best place to mount a CB antenna on a vehicle is on a
metal roof, right smack in the middle. This affords the best
performance, both in terms of maximizing range, and minimizing the
directional effects of the vehicle body. If an antenna is mounted
off-center, the radiation (radio-energy) will be emitted in an a-symmetrical
pattern. If the antenna is mounted in the center, the radiation will be
emitted in a (roughly) circular pattern. If you, for instance, mount the
antenna at the left-rear bumper, the bulk of the rf energy will be
directed toward the right-front of the vehicle. If you mount the antenna
on the roof, at the back edge, in the middle (directly above the center
of the tail-gate, for example) the energy will be mostly directed toward
the front of the vehicle.
This effect is fairly noticeable at ranges beyond a mile or two, but is
not noticeable at close range. So, for close-in caravan-type
communications, the location is unimportant.
Bumper-mount antennas are good, if the antenna is of decent length,
enough to get a few feet above the roof-line. Base-loaded antennas are
great for roof-mount applications. I personally run a Wilson 1000
magnetic mount antenna on the center of my FJ60, and it works like a champ.
The total length is approx 5'. Only twice has it been removed by a low
branch.
Side-mount ball-type mounts are great, but they require four holes
drilled into the body, or other mounting surface. Also, if they protrude
|from the side, this can be an issue in a tight-squeeze situation.
Probably better to mount these somewhere in the rear, if possible.
Places to buy CBs: Many local shops throughout the US, but there is a
firm called Copper Electronics, located (I believe) somewhere around
Louisville KY, (if I remember correctly). They have a great selection at
excellent prices. Might be Tennesee. You may want to check out
rec.radio.cb for someone who can give their phone number.
Nigel in Australia speaks about UHF/CB combo. Not available in US, we
have different allocations for the RF spectrum here. You CAN buy UHF
radios, that's for sure, but not combined with CB. All CB radios in US
are in the HF spectrum ( less than 30 Mhz ), approx 27 Mhz.
If you're interested in UHF, repeaters, etc, I would recommend a
low-level ham license, (tech license) which allows voice communications
on the two-meter (and higher) bands. This license can be had without
morse-code requirements.
There are different types of CB radios, the most common being AM, with
SSB (single side band) avaiable at extra cost. The advantage of SSB is
greater range, with less background noise. SSB radios all come with AM
also. AM and SSB are not compatible, even though the radio may be
capable of both, you can use only one at a time. An SSB radio must speak
with another SSB radio, an AM with an AM.
Linear amplifiers are available in US, but remain illegal to use. They
boost the output power of the transmitter from approx 4 watts, to
whatever. These amps come rated as low as 30 watts, to several
kilowatts. Most mobile amps are in the 50-150 watt range, which is
really quite adequate for mobile use. Frankly, though, for most off-road
situations I've encountered, the stock CB radio is good enough.
Anyway, enough about CB's for now. Hope this helps.
Dana
- --
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 13:04:37 +0000
From: "Ron Connelly"
Subject: CB RADIO... not antenna location
To: Rainey Kirk , TLCAL@tlca.org
On 29 Oct 96 at 23:13, Rainey Kirk wrote:
> HELLO! ARE WE AWAKE?
>
> If it's okay with you I'm gonna try this once again
>
> >Okay folks,
>
> >I'm in the market for a new CB. I've been running a Cobra Ultra18. >Great radio, it's served me well lo all these years. For those of you >familiar with the GSMTR trails in Tellico, communicating t
> >I believe I'm looking for something a bit more powerful this time... A
> >linear maybe?.. I don't know.
> >Can someone out there give me some tips on what to get and where to get
> >it?
>
> >Thanks very much,
> >Rainman
> >75 FJzebra
> >91 4Runner...(not for long if anyone's interested)
> >66 45........(yes!)
>
>
> The key phrase here is "Bigger radio" not antenna. Thank you for the
> comments but you've missed the subject.
> Hey Mike Graham, here, if I put the antenna anywhere near the roof, it
> will only last about a hundred yards on a trail around here. Thanks
> anyway.
>
I hate to tell you this, but the key is really the antenna. A good
antenna would be a 5/8 wave, and this requires a good ground plane in
order to be resonant and therefore radiate properly. The *best*
ground plane is the roof, or as I have done in the past, the hood (it
looks ugly, but that's not an important criterion for me 8-)) ).
The next step is to insure that the radio/coax cable/antenna are
'matched' using a SWR (standing wave ratio) meter. Some radios are
equipped with these, but the more accurate the meter, the better the
antenna can be matched to the radio. This is done by physically
trimming the antenna (method depends upon antenna construction) until
you achieve a SWR of 1:1 while transmitting. If the SWR is too much
greater than 1:1, then some of the energy transmitted by the radio
will be reflected back and forth along the feedline/antenna, instead
of radiated out into 'the ether'.
CB's are AM as mode of modulation. This is an inheherently
inefficient form of modulation. The power output is also regulatd by
our beloved federal government at a very low level, which compounds
the problem. Using a linear on a CB is illegal, and the FCC takes a
very dim view of it. It can damage other peolpe's equipment, as was
pointed out, and that's the reason for the regulations.
The SSB CB's have better efficiency, and therefore more range, but
you still have to be communicating with another SSB CB.
Sorry, but that is the best that can be done without breaking the
laws of the Fed Govt, or Physics.
An alternative is the Amateur Bands which can be used by any (with
certain qualifications-- I won't get into that here) licensed Ham
Radio Operator. A very popular Ham band/mode combination, FM 2
meter, works extremely well for offroad use. Yes, the drawback is
that you can only communicate with other FM 2m radios. Typical
ranges for these radios using 50 watts, which is well below the legal
power limit (200 watt, I think), are in the 20 to 40 mile range on wide open line-of-site
terrain. Or, even 10 miles in my experiences around mountains, canyons, etc.
There was a good 'How-To' article in the Oct '96 issue of 4WD&SUV on
Ham radio. The new 'No Code' license eliminates the need to learn
Morse Code to earn a Ham license, yet still gives all the priveledges
of the VHF/UHF frequencies. And these are the best to use for what
we're talking about here.
BUT, because of the issues of "not everybody is a Ham", I just bought
a CB yesterday... To prepare for a trip with a group of 5 trucks
into Baja next week. Only 1 other truck has a 2m, and with the usual
emergency situations we encounter, it's a PITA not having good
communications.
I bought a Uniden PC76XL, a 5/8 wave fiberglass whip, and some coax.
I am gonna tune it today, and I hope it radiates well. I had *no*
real recommendations to go on for radio makes/models, so mine was
kind of a shot in the dark. If anyone is interested, I'll report
back in 10 days or so (after the trip), and let you know how it
works.
Good luck!,
- ----
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:28:52 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: CB RADIO... not antenna location
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
>I hate to tell you this, but the key is really the antenna. A good
>antenna would be a 5/8 wave, and this requires a good ground plane in
>order to be resonant and therefore radiate properly. The *best*
>ground plane is the roof, or as I have done in the past, the hood (it
>looks ugly, but that's not an important criterion for me 8-)) ).
You guys are completely missing Rainey's point and I'm with him.
If and when my truck were broken down 50 miles back in the woods I could
care less if I'm breaking the law and if the law knew I were breaking
it have them come and help me out. Talking a long way requires
MORE power (Argh, ARgh, ARgh, ARgh..... ala - Tim Allen) Gary
Bjork's got a couple of hunderd watt linear and he could
talk from Rubicon Springs to the Little Sluice easily. I'm
with Rainey, I'd like to be able to talk to McNcabb campground
at Tellico from the trails. And with all the trees mounting a 50 ft.
full-wave antenna on the roof isn't practical on ANY trail I've
ever ridden on. Bottom line Rainey was looking for is what
kind of amp are people using (and I know there's others out
there using them !) ?? It's not like you have to run the linear all the
time, but it's like Insurance, it sure does make you feel good
having it ....
Rainey: I hear truckers advertise name brand linears on the CB every day
for about $1 a watt or a little less. Go with a name brand one. Anyone
who'll sell you one will know a good brand. Be sure to check your
SWR though or you'll cook the CB and/or amp pretty quick if it's
too high. Breaking the law or not, that's the only way to really
talk along way, my little 40 channel Midland is tweaked a bit to
where it dead keys about 3.5 watts and swings 22 watts I can talk
alot farther than I could before I messed with it.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:33:00 -0400 (EDT)
From: TXPakRat@aol.com
Subject: CB Whip Antenna
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have noticed the on again, off again messages concerning CB antennas.
So, I thought that I would offer my $5 worth (inflation, you know!).
I run an 8' black fiberglass whip from the tail end of my '90 Runner. I
attached a 6" steel bar to the underside of the driver's side corner of
the rear bumper. It has a 90 deg cable connector underneath, an insulated
sleeve attaches the antenna to the bar, a mid size spring attached to the
sleeve, and a quick disconnect attaching the antenna to the spring. I
keep it tied down (about a foot from the top) to my luggage rack using a
plastic wall hook and about a foot of heavy nylon strin (para cord). The
plastic wall cord is a better choice than a metal one. If you catch the
antenna on something while it is down (I have done that in a parking
garage), the hook will break before anything else does. I also have a
raquet ball attached to keep it from banging the body (although when it
is tied down, it is in constant contact with the body above the tail
light). I ran the cable under the body, high up on the frame rail to a
grommet just below the driver's seat. I ran the line through the grommet
(sealed with vinyl glue) to the CB. My CB is a remote mount under the
drivers seat with a 15' coiled cord and all controls on the handset.
I have used the quick disconnect many times: low ceiling parking
garages, parking in questionable areas, etc. If you decide to tie down
the antenna please note that it is NOT advisable to use the CB with the
antenna down. I have worked field commo for the Army (although more
powerful systems). If you use the antenna down, you get poorer reception
and you take a chance on pulling feedback through the system (i.e., can
you say "burnout").
Some things to keep in mind about picking a location and type of antenna.
1. Steel antenna's vibrate and wave more than fiberglass or
plastic antenna's. Also, the longer the antenna, the more
it will "wave."
2. If one decides on a top loaded antenna, it should be "tunable"
and should be properly tuned using an RF meter before you use
it.
3. K40 antenna's and bases are excellent (one of the best on the
market). They make permanent mount, magnetic mount, and quick
disconnect antenna's and bases.
4. Putting the antenna on the roof is the absolute best location
for reception and transmission. The next location would be
the hood (or trunk on a car). This is because the flat metal
surface under the antenna acts as a "reflector" or "amplifier."
It also puts the antenna higher up. The drawback to mounting
other than on the roof is that the body of the truck will
partially block signals (rec/trans). This means that if it
is mounted on the hood, you will not rec/trans as well to the
rear as you will to the front.
5. Dual antenna's are not any good (actually detramental) unless
they are at least 6 feet apart (i.e., mounted front and back,
side to side does not have enough space). They do look cool,
though!
6. I always recommend a medium or heavy spring for any large (6
or 8 feet) antenna. I also recommend them for any "exposed"
short antennas for off-roaders (where the antenna may hit
something).
7. I don't necessary recommend (or condemn) the glass mounted
"cell phone" type antennas. Just keep in mind that most
(not all) are not tunable, break fairly easily, and don't
have that great of a rec/trans radius. They are, however,
less obvious and obtrusive (although someone may break into
your truck thinking you have a car phone!).
8. Just keep in mind, like everything else, you get what you pay
for. Cheap, inexpensive anntennas and mounts will in all
likelyhood break easily and not give great reception.
I like my setup (sort of) because I get decent transmission and
reception. The antenna is high enough that I can clear the top of the
truck for better reception, but it is not too high above that it will
catch a lot in tree areas. I have been thinking about mounting it on
the driver's side bumper using an adjustable ball mount (I used to have
it like that before a "small" fender bender") (I have seen ball mounted
antenna's attached directly to body pannels higher up, I am not that
daring, though!). These types of ball mounts are exceptionally strong
and can be adjusted from "almost" any angle to make the antenna vertical.
In addition to functionality, I think that it looks "cool" to have a tall
antenna (pulled down when not in use) hanging off the back of a truck (my
Army bias, I guess!
I have been in command com vehicles that had a half dozen antenna's and
high band radio systems).
If anyone would like help or info on setting something up, drop me a
line, I will do what I can to help!
Bob
Pack Rat
TXPakRat@aol.com
p.s. Sorry about the "long" message!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:56:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: cb installation
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-04-30 05:51:12 EDT, you write:
> David,
>
> You mentioned that it only took you 10 minutes to cut the plastic to
> mount a cb in the ashtray spot. What plastic are you referring to?
>
> Chris Caldwell
I see that you have a Tacoma, so it may be different. I have a 90 truck, so
this should atleast apply to similar Toys. Anyway...
1. Remove the ashtray, and unscrewed the 2 overhead screws holding the tray
bracket in place. I removed this, and made sure my CB was narrow enough to
fit.
2. The plastic below the radio and above the astray goes back, then down
towards the floor. It is only connected on one side, sou you can get a
cutting tool in there.
3. I know this sounds crazy, but the tool I used was a serrated kitchen
knife. This cut right through. First I made a vertical cut. Next I cut
straight across the botton, then I pulled the plastic down towards me so I
could cut the top.
4. That was all. The rest was running antena and power wires.
The best way to figure it out is to just pull out the ashtray. You can
then easily see if your CB will work and what pastic to cut.
So far, I know my Cobra CB fits, and A Radio Shack CB (Chris Geiger, who I
got the idea from has this one). They must have front mic connectors, unless
you really want to figure somethng out.
Hope this helps
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:11:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: TXPakRat@aol.com
Subject: CB Stuff
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Most of the cities I have lived in (quite a few!) have had a CB shop
somewhere in town. Most will carry a wide variety of antennas, mounts, quick
disconnects, cables, power mics, amps, springs, couplers, and of course CB's.
If you can't find anything listed in your local Yellow Pages, try looking
up CB shops in the "internet" Yellow Pages. I bet there are mail order
companies listed out there that can get you just about anything you want!
Bob
Pack Rat
TXPakRat@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 14:13:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: CB Stuff
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I found the easiest way to find a CB shop is to talk to truck drivers.
They always know those places that do the"good" work, and have the right
equipment.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 16:15:41 -0500
From: Todd Hornsby
Subject: CB Stuff
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Truckers is right! One trick they use is those phased antennas on the
mirrors at a measured width apart. This doubles their fore and aft
transmission range though halves the left/right range. OK for interstate
but not much else like off road IMHO. Many truckers use CBs in excess of
5W which is illegal. It's no biggee as the FCC has long since written off
the CB band anyway.
A good tuned antenna as near to the middle of a metal roof (I can never
bring myself to drill besides this almost non-existent w/ 1st gen 4Runners
;) should provide optimal transmission range, maybe 5 miles over flat
terrain. Single side band helps too. But remember the chain is only as
strong as the weakest link. If you have goodies to push the signal envelope
whoever you are talking to needs to have just as much for you to receive if
both parties are at the fringe. CBs are great for a group of people
traveling together off road or on. Around the large cities and on the
popular channels its just a bunch of trash talk, drug sells etc
unfortunately. For a long trip I still occasionally slap on a magnetic or
gutter mount unit with the stubby 2' antenna and coil in the middle. The
better antennas of this ilk are the 4' or so antennas with the coil in the
base. They will tend to transmit more power. And for the nth degree in
transmission performance, tune your antenna with an SWR meter.
I've used those signal splitters (JC Whitney) that allow you to use
existing AM/FM radio antenna. They are OK if you like to listen but I
haven't pushed a signal beyond about 2 miles. It's clean looking and
doesn't attract attention from thieves. I just set my CB in the center
console and wire it to the cigarette lighter since I don't bother with it
around town.
With costs dropping and the BS on the CB band a lot more people including
truckers are going to FM transceivers. This is nicely controlled by the
FCC/HAM crowd and recquires licensing which is pretty easy to get these
days. Range and signal quality is much improved since it uses FM and higher
wattage is sometimes allowed I think.
Saludos,
Todd
________________________________________________________________________
- -Todd Hornsby (San Antonio, TX) http://www.texas.net/~toddh
- -toddh@texas.net alt: thornsby@alumni.cs.colorado.edu
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:54:50 -0700
From: Randy Ring
Subject: CB
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
>I have been trying to come up with a **good** location to install my CB
>radio in my 1994 Xtra-Cab P/U.=20
*******
To add to the other good comments and suggestions:
I also had a Cobra 19 for many years. It fit perfectly in the space
below the stereo unit (gadget tray) in my '86. An SWR meter should be
used to tune the antenna for maximum performance. A reading of <1.0 is
desirable. When connecting the hot lead from the battery, I use
stranded center wire CB coaxial cable and connect it directly from the
battery to the CB using just the center core. The braided shielding will
help reduce engine spark noise in the radio. Running it along the left
right side of the engine compartment, across the fire wall and into a
hole with a little rubber plug. This is the easiest and fastest way to
get the hot lead into the interior thru the fire wall. Also an external
speaker box (Radio Shak $5) mounted on the driver side above the top
seat belt loop is very nice for better listening. I have a fiberglass
whip that is 20 YEARS OLD, it has performed perfectly and has seen lots
for nasty thrashing thru bushes and trees. I mounted mine just behind
the rear window on top of the bed frame. I hear the TIGER antenna is a
good one.
________________
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Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 18:35:07 -0800
From: david fritzsche
Subject: CB Mount
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
I just finished mounting my CB this weekend. I wanted it up
by the rear view mirror. I let my anal mind come up with all
kinds of ways to mount the thing. In the end it was mounted
very simply and it turned out to be just what I wanted it to
look like. The mount is made out of a sheet of alum. plate
about 1/8 inch thick, the size is about 6" X 8" . The plate
is flat with the corners rounded. I removed the rear view
mirror (3 screws), cut the indention off of the bottom of
the mirror (it goes in the big whole that is in the
headliner and the roof. Some of the trucks have a light
there so you can't do that, but mine did not. Next I used
the mirror as a template and drilled the 3 holes with a
little wiggle room (bigger holes) for adjustment in the
plate. I punched a 1 inch hole for the wires to go through.
I also punched a 3/4 inch whole in the trim piece also. The
plate will be held in place by the mirror. I mounted the cb
mount on the plate. I used a 1/2 inch wood spacer under the
factory CB mount. I also glued a piece of gray carpet to the
plate for looks.
To run the wires I peeled back about 3-4 inches of the
headliner by the front post, pushed a piece of welding rod
(gas) under the headliner from the mirror hole to the door
post, taped a piece of twine to the rod and pulled the twine
to the mirror hole in the headliner and let it hang out,
taped all of the wires to the twine hanging out by the door
and pulled the wires through to the hole in the
headliner.Removed the trim piece on the post, put the wires
in the channel for the wires, put the trim piece back on.
Pushed the wires through the hole in the plate and the
mirror, mounted the mirror with the plate under it using the
existing screws. Finshed wiring the rest of it.
It turned out to be a simple, but clean install. It is
strong, does not vibrate at all and it only cost me about 2
dollars to make it. Thats a big 10-4 rubber duckie!
David Fritzsche 1990 excab some day it will be a
Roseville, CA Rubcion Rocker
otto@inreach.com
------------------------------
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Date: Wed, 7 May 1997 15:53:55 -0700 (MST)
From: Eric
Subject: CB Radio Installation
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have a 94 Toy truck with Xtra-Cab and manual transmission, and I mounted
the CB on the right side of the shifter console. When in 4low, the
shifter knob just misses the front panel of the CB radio, and the mic
holder is screwed into the dash to the right of the radio. It's not the
best solution, but it was fast, and it works pretty well. The antenna
cable is run through the sliding rear window to a magnet mount behind the
moonroof.
Eric
Eric Madsen, Applications Engineer
Pacific Numerix Corporation
7333 E. Doubletree Ranch Rd #280, Scottsdale, AZ 85258
Phone: (602) 483-6800 | Fax: (602) 483-8526
E-mail: eric@pnc.com | Web: www.crl.com/~pacnum/pnc.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 19:57:56 EDT
From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
Subject: CB Radio Installation
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Does the window close fully or do you have to leave it open a crack?
I would do this but it looks like it would be open all the time( not an
option in my neighborhood).
Matt Chapin
matt877@juno.com
81' 4x4 SR5
---------
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Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 08:57:27 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: CB Radio Installation
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Matt Chapin wrote:
"Does the window close fully or do you have
to leave it open a crack? I would do this but
it looks like it would be open all the time
(not an option in my neighborhood)."
I believe it's Cobra (and probably others) who makes a CB antenna that
mounts on opposing sides of the glass - no drilling, just some glue - which
gives a nice clean installation. Also, Radio Shack makes an antenna that
replaces your stock radio antenna. It has a splitter on it, with connectors
for both FM and CB. It works pretty well, but AM reception sucks.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 May 1997 09:51:24 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: CB Radio Installation
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Nick Krest wrote:
> Matt Chapin wrote:
>
> "Does the window close fully or do you have
> to leave it open a crack? I would do this but
> it looks like it would be open all the time
> (not an option in my neighborhood)."
>
> I believe it's Cobra (and probably others) who makes a CB antenna that
> mounts on opposing sides of the glass - no drilling, just some glue -
which
> gives a nice clean installation. Also, Radio Shack makes an antenna that
> replaces your stock radio antenna. It has a splitter on it, with
connectors
> for both FM and CB. It works pretty well, but AM reception sucks.
I hear those capacitively-coupled antennas don't have very good
performance. I've been extremely pleased with my fender-lip antenna mount.
I was able to use an existing fender bolt to attach it, so it was a
no-drill setup. I ran the cable behind the fender and through the door
beneath some weather stripping, though you could also run it through the
firewall. You can run any type of antenna from it; I'm currently using a 3'
Electronics Distrbutors fiberglass whip, but I'm probably going to switch
to something at least a few inches shorter. You don't need a very hi
performance antenna setup for close-range communication on the trail, but a
longer and better antenna will help reach out further.
With the type of wheeling in my area (generally forest trails), a CB
antenna mounted on the roof (along with anything else mounted on the roof)
lasts about 30 seconds on the trail, though the roof does give the best CB
performance. If you don't garage your truck or don't take it off road or
your type of wheeling has few overhanging rocks and trees, a tall roof
mount is nice.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 06:22:51 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: CB/Ash Tray
To: Toy4x4
Special thank to the guy(s) who mentioned they had mounted their small
CB's in the space where the ash tray was. I help my good friend Louie
install his CB in his 93 Xtra Cab last night, and thats exactly were we
mounted it. It looks -really- sharp, almost like Toyota left that space
for us to put it there
Thanks,
Scott (& Louie)
- --
Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o
Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_)
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 May 1997 10:12:22 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: CB Radio Installation
To: " - (052)toy4x4 (a) tlca.org"
I dunno if this applies to the pickups, but it appears to be true for
the firt gen 4Runners.
Just behind the doors is a plastic trim panel theat sez "4runner" on it.
It runs the height of the windows. This can be pried off and there is a
small round hole ip near the top that goes into the truck. Just the right
size for RU-58 (or whatever CB antenna cable is). I then added a bulknead
connector to the pastic panel and then - violia I have a antenna jack on
the outside of the truck with NO drilling (in metal anyway).
I use a right andle connector and run to a Wilson mag mount on the roof.
For the rest of you - that means - try to fish the cable through
> the fresh air vent exits
> the wire harness to the outside (aka tail lights etc)
EWong
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Date: Fri, 09 May 1997 15:22:14 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: CB/Ash Tray
To: Toy4x4
I heard from a couple of people who wanted to know which models of CBs
will fit in the ash try spot. Last night we used a $40 Radio Shack, fit
perfect. Today I measured my Cobra 19 Ultra, and sure enough, it'll
fit. Mounting in the ash tray may be a problem though because of the
layout of my dash. I don't think that spot is deep enough for my Cobra
in my truck. BTW, we did have to cut to make Louie's CB fit too, but
there was nothing behind the plastic (the plastic was decoration). In
my truck I can't to that because it is the air vent that is restricting
depth. It all depends on the year/model of your truck.
Scott
- --
Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o
Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_)
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 10:30:37 -0500
From: "John Schultz"
Subject: Toyota CB installation suggestion.
To:
Hi, I'm new to the list and have been reading for about a week. I'm no
certified mechanic but I figured that I could contribute in an area that I
do know about.
I just purchased an 89 xtra Cab and had a hard time trying to figure out
how to install a decent CB radio in the little cab. I like to run large
chassis SSB radios such as the Uniden Grant or Cobra 148 and that was quite
a problem in the Toyota. I will describe how I solved it.
Behind the shifter, (manual trans), there is a plastic cover that covers
two support sections for the dash.
* First I used my Dremel tool with the cutoff wheel to remove the four
tabs that evidently secure some option that I don't have.
* Then I removed the lower bolt on the passenger side bracket and bent it
outward as far as I needed to get the radio between the supports.
* Then I cut a piece of wood to the width of my radio and placed it
between the supports and pushed the lower portion of the bent support back
into place. This created a flared portion between the supports and allowed
me to get the bolt back into the stock location.
* After I did this, I took some scrap metal and fabricated a custom
bracket for the radio that attached to the supports.
* To make it a clean install, I bought some matching carpet and thin
pressed board and built a carpeted box around the side portions where the
plastic cover used to be and around the face of the radio. The radio is
now an integral part of the dash and looks almost OEM. On certain radios,
the Microphone jack comes out the side. You will need to use a hole saw to
cut a hole in the appropriate place in the box to allow for the microphone
to pass through. BTW the new Cobra 148gtl has a front mounted Mic plug.
It's about time!!
I hope this helps someone. It took me a couple of weeks to figure out how
to get a big radio in a little truck. I have not read all of the back
digests of the list but, if there are any radio questions, I will be happy
to try to help.
John
1989 Toy xtra cab, 30x9.50s (soon to be 31s), American Racing Rims, push
bar, nerfs etc....
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:26:02 -0600
From: "Tong, Donald L"
Subject: 92 4-Runner Questions
To: "'Toyota 4x4 Digest'" , "', Deo@Guittard.com'"
4. Where can you mount a cb antenna? (I was thinking about drilling
into the rear bumper??) Should I use the "magnetic base" type?
The most important thing you can do for a good CB setup is to get a
good antenna. An inexpensive CB can sound great with a good antenna,
but a bad antenna will make a good CB worthless. I use a K40 and have
recommended that to all my friends. I have the magnetic base and the
coil and whip detach with a quick 1/3 or 1/4 turn. (By the way, the
base is darn near impossible to steal without the rest of the antenna
attached). The physics of radio wave propagation will dictate that your
strongest transmission will be on the line from the antenna through the
center of the base plane. For example, if you mount an antenna (any
antenna) on the left rear of the car, the strongest signal will be out
over the right front. For best overall performance, mount the antenna
near the center of the roof - I mount mine just behind the sunroof and
run the wire in under one of the rear doors. Running the line under the
door is not the best solution as it kinks the wires a lot and will
probably eventually break something, but that's what I'm doing until I
find a better path.
K40s are not the only antenna but I do see a lot of them, I know they
work well, and I like to stick with what I know. I've had clear
conversations with people behind hills while other cars 10 feet from me
get nothing but static. K40s seem expensive (probably $65+ for the
antenna and base), especially when the CB is only $40, but like I said,
the antenna can make or break your entire communications setup. Out of
pure curiosity, I'd like to hear other opinions on this and other
antennae.
As for mounting the actual radio, I bought a small Uniden and mounted it
where the ash tray would normally be located. It stays out of the way
but is easy to see and easy to get to, and the bottom-mounted speaker
ends up pointing at the gear shift and is pretty easy to hear. Cobra
also makes a unit that is probably small enough. I measured where I
wanted to mount it and went looking for a unit to fit. Although that's
the smartest way to buy a CB, I felt pretty comfortable buying either a
Uniden and Cobra CB because both companies have been around a long time.
Try to get a unit with a front-facing mike that locks down rather than
just plugs in.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:01:32 -0400
From: Jerry Berwanger <"bbdiver2@bellsouth.net"@bellsouth.net>
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #310
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In response to the postings on CB ants. this is another idea and this is
have an ant for the woods and one for the street. K40's, Wilson 1000 and
others are to expensive to leave out like that. Try the mounting of
steel whip at 102" exact and tune the ant with the length of 22' of coax
cable. Using the idea of cutting 1/8 " off on cuts. Do not use a tennis
ball to save the finish in that the ball will resonates the ant. and the
finals will load until you have to replace them. This is not the voice
of experience but apply all the rules the Ham operators do in caring for
their rigs. Your local CB shop is a trusted helper in this matter. Do
not forget to look at a used rig for woods play in that there are lots
of them around and some with side band for more fun in the woods at high
elevations. The rules of part 95 are still in effect plus others do not
wish to hear idle chat. This could be a good start in radio procedure. I
have enjoyed my radios since 1972 and now there is lots happening from 0
to 30 mhz. and beyond. GPS is out there to enjoy also. Maybe a general
CQ should be out for all of us radio buffs to have a place to read
information and relate to our sport. Monitoring Times is a great mag. to
start with in getting into radio listening. Grove Enterprises has a web
site and I recommend it for any radio buff. bbdiver2@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 19:28:55 -0700
From: Wiley Davis
Subject: ant. tennis ball
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
<< Do not use a tennis
ball to save the finish in that the ball will resonates the ant. and the
finals will load until you have to replace them. >>
I'm not super knowledgable about radios, so do you mean the antennae will
resonate mechanically, or resonate the signal? If you mean mechanically,
then i am not experiencing that problem. It has actually steadied the
antenna, and eventually will be screwed to the roll-cage to prevent the
antenna from swaying back and forth altogether when the whoops get real
deep.
I have never had any luck w/ mirror mounts, they tend to pull my mirrors
off of the car. Also, stay away from pre-made screw on cables and
mounts. The rubber insulation pulls out and causes the antenna to loosen
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 06:09:05 -0500
From: "John Schultz"
Subject: ant. tennis ball
To:
> << Do not use a tennis
> ball to save the finish in that the ball will resonates the ant. and the
> finals will load until you have to replace them. >>
A transmitter requires a 50 ohm load, putting a tennis ball on the antenna
will not change this value. If the antenna is properly tuned it will
present a 50 ohm load, tennis ball or not. Perhaps the mount or the coax
or something else failed or perhaps the antenna was not tuned in the first
place. If you check your swr before and after the tennis ball it will be
the same. The tennis ball did not blow your finals.
> It has actually steadied the antenna, and eventually will be screwed to
the roll-cage to prevent the
> antenna from swaying back and forth altogether when the whoops get real
deep.
Sounds like it will work fine. Just make sure that the screw does not
contact the antenna element. That will cause a very high vswr. My
personal favorite, and I have owned every single one of them, is the Wilson
1000 hard mounted to the center of the roof. This is the most efficient
setup that is practical for good omni-directional performance. The K-40 is
also good but, will only handle up to 500 watts ;) I also like the lil'
Wil for a low profile, inexpensive antenna. Unfortunately, it only comes
as a magnetic mount. For you non "Ham Freaks" (as we were referred to
earlier in this thread), another good choice for a fiberglass whip is the
Wilson Silver Load. Not very expensive and far superior to the
"Firestick".
Regards,
John
Ham Freak
Toyota Owner
- -----------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:51:31 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: CB antenna mount.
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
>I have thought about roof magnet mounts, but for a few reasons would
rather
>see the antenna mounted to the bumper area. In discussing this with a ham
>freak, he mentioned he would shy away from magnet mounts as you're much
>better off utilizing the ground plane of the vehilce's metal (the paint
>would likely insulate the antenna with a magnet mount). RF will travel
(and
>receive) much better with a good ground plane, so another reason to
>consider a bumper mount (I don't want to drill into the body panels).
Well, a magmount does take advantage of the ground, but its capacatively
coupled, not directly attached. But I don't like what magmounts do to your
paint, and they often look sloppy.
>[snip]
>What about mirror mounts? I saw them on a web site and it's food for
>thought. Maybe better for big rigs than smaller trucks, I don't know.
Doesn't really work well on Toyota mirrors, due to the size/shape.
>I think I have a radio chosen, it's the antenna and mount that is most
>critical.
Have you considered a fender lip mount? There's several of them shown (on
my truck, and others) at
www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/4_rigs.html. I really like mine - I can
still even get into my garage if I use a 3' antenna. You can use an
existing fender bolt hole, so its a no-hole install. If you loosen the
fender slightly, you can slip the wire underneath from the outside, and
slip the wire in through the door. I couldn't be happier. Be sure to use a
spring or an extremely flexible antenna, else you'll put a lot of stress on
the mount and antenna with the first branch you hit
For vehicle-to-vehicle communication on the trail, virtually any antenna
setup will have adequate range. I might even go to something like a 2'
antenna so I fit in the garage even better (without scraping) and my
antenna often overloads my cheap CB anyways if the transmitter is close.
Cobras web site has some nice reconditioned units dirt cheap.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 08:24:09 -0500
From: John.Palmer@astramerck.com
Subject: More on dual CB antennas
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Regarding the conversation about dual antennas. I am in the process of
replacing my Radio Shack antenna with a "real" antenna. I went to the
Firestik site (http://www.firestick.com) to see what they have to offer.
I found this in their tech docs area.
HIH - particularly #32
|From "Things Every CB'er Should Know" copyright Firestik Antenna Company -
used without permission.
30.If you are installing a single antenna on one side or the other of
your vehicle, best on-the-road performance will be realized if the antenna
is on the passenger side of the vehicle.
31.Co-phased (dual) antenna installations create a radiation pattern
that favors communication directly in front and back of the vehicle.
This is why co-phase systems are popular with people who do a lot of
highway driving. Co-phase antennas must be center or top loaded. Top
loaded antennas are the best.
32.Some people believe that co-phased antennas must be separated by
a minimum of nine (9) feet. We have successfully used co-phase antenna
systems with spacing as little as four (4) feet. Space alters the pattern
and not always negatively. Each vehicle will be different.
****** My comment ******
Without installing and testing, how does one know that it will work on
'positively' for their setup?
33.Co-phase antennas can improve performance on vehicles that lack
good ground plane characteristics (fiberglass motorhomes, trucks, etc.).
Instead of using available metal to reflect the radiated energy, the
antennas use each others field.
34.When tuning co-phased antennas (dual), it is best to adjust both
antennas an equal amount to maintain equality in their individual
resonant frequency.
35.On a co-phase system, if you try to tune each antenna independently
using RG-58 type coax and then connect them to the co-phasing harness,
you will almost always find that they will appear electrically short as
a set. We recommend that you first assemble the entire system. Take all
measurements and make all adjustments with both antennas in place.
John Palmer
'90 4Runner 22RE
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 11:21:58 -0600
From: John Schultz
Subject: More on dual CB antennas
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
The recommendation to co-phase will sell twice as many antennas:)
always take fire-sticks advice with a minimum of 10 lbs. of salt because
they also recommend 18 feet of coax for any installation. This is in
technical RF Engineering terms "Malarkey".
Wilson makes "real" antennas. The Wilson "Silver Load" is an excellent
alternative to the fire-stick.
John
--------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:16:25 -0800
From: Gregg R Hayford
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Just want to ask for some help from those of you who have installed CB's
in your trucks. I know this is off topic so please reply via Email so
others don't have to be bothered with it. Just the other day I
purchased a new Cobra 75 WX ST CB and dual 5' Firestick II Antennas.
I've mounted everything and am in the process of tuning my antennas. My
I test any channel I am getting a reading of 3-4 off the SWR meter. I
know it has to be under 2 to be effective. I've tried making major
changes in the antenna tunings but the SWR doesn't move. I've read that
a reading in red zone for all channels means possible shirt or something
like that. Not sure how to test this seeing I'm not too smart when it
comes to electronics. Appreciate any help or referral to any pages on
the web that may help me.
- --
____________________
Gregg R Hayford
'93 Toy P/U
22re 4 cyl.
3" body
33x12.50 Thornbirds
15x10 wheels
Cobra 75 WX ST Weather/CB
Dual 5' Firestick II Antennas
Http://www.geocities.com/baja/dunes/6290
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 14:11:09 -1000 (HST)
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Technically, you rally need to have duals a quarter wavelength (about 8
feet) apart to gain the advntage of giong dual. You might want to try it
single first.
Is the SWR meter calibrated? maybe its reading high everywhere. On what
channel do you get your lowest SWR readings? this will help us narrow
down your tuning troubles. I get under 2.0 across the board with a single
3' antenna.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:54:13 EST
From: DRM033
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Well, one thig I heard is that dual antennas are more bad than good due to
the fact that is is next to impossible to get them far enough apart on a
Toy. Any more info on this? I say take the whole setup to a good CB shop
and have them match everything up.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 19:07:19 -0600
From: John Schultz
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Every Firestick install that I have ever seen that had ifinite SWR was
because the threaded portion or the base was touching ground. Those
little white nylon spacers are absolutely necessary. That type of mount
should NOT touch metal to metal on the chassis. According to those on
the list (Wiley Davis), I am a "Radio Nerd" so e-mail direct if you want
for specific questions or we can keep it on this forum if nobody minds.
John
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 21:30:07 -0600
From: John Schultz
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
It is true that co-phased antennas don't work very well on Toyotas (or
anything else that is not a Semi Truck for that matter). If the
radiating elements are closer than nine feet then they will become
directional. Everyone to the left and right of you will hear you very
well and your front and rear coverage will suffer. For a truly great
antenna, the Wilson 1000, hard mounted (this means go ahead and cut a
hole) on the roof is very difficult to top. This is the optimum location
for good omni-directional coverage.
Perhaps a good shop is the solution if the spacers are not the issue.
You can smoke the radio if you keep trying and it is not tuning down.
John
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 Jan 1998 01:29:38 -0600
From: breeze@cysource.com (Jeffrey Delzer)
Subject: CB Installation: OFF TOPIC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
DRM033 wrote:
>
> I say take the whole setup to a good CB shop and have them match everything
> up.
Amazing. :) You guys will swap diff gears, transmissions, engines, leaf
springs, and on and on, but when it comes to setting up a CB properly
you want to take it to the shop. Tsk tsk.
'Round these he'e parts we'uns like to do ah own work. :)
Jeff Delzer
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 10:59:09 -0700
From: "Tong, Donald L"
Subject: Re: Grounding CB antenna
> When I first tried it 2 days ago it didn't work, then I tried it again
yesterday and, guess what...it woked! Still can't figure out what the
original problem was...
That would worry me more than having it not work! At least when it's
not working you know you have a problem. It's sounds like you've now
got an intermittent problem and keying up the mike at the wrong time
could definitely fry something. (Sorry, don't mean to worry you but
things the fix themselves also have a tendency to break themselves again
later.)
Does the coax go straight from the antenna into the radio, or does it go
through some other connectors on the way? If it goes through other
connections, one of them might be the problem. Since you looked at the
Firestik site, you already know that they recommend checking to see that
there is no continuity between the center conductor and the ground
before connecting the radio to a new antenna / antenna line. You'll
also have read their recommendation for using coax with a twisted center
conductor vs. solid wire, especially when the wire gets pinched in door
frames and stuff.
As for the SWR question, the guy at the CB shop was correct - removing
the meter does not change the SWR reading "at the point where the meter
was connected". That last part is the real key. The correct way to
connect an SWR meter to the antenna line is to remove the antenna line
from the radio, attach the SWR meter to the radio using a patch cable,
and attach the antenna line to the meter. What you measure is the
amount of power being reflected by the antenna at the point it connects
to the meter. After you tune the antenna, you remove the meter and
patch cord, and reconnect the antenna directly to the radio. Since the
length of the antenna line from the point of measurement hasn't changed,
the SWR will remain the same.
If you connect the SWR to the radio using a patch cord and then leave
the patch cord in place after you tune the antenna (for example, if it's
inconvenient to get to the radio directly so you use a patch cord as an
extension to make connections more accesiible) then your SWR will change
once you remove the meter because the antenna line has been increased by
the length of the patch cord and the intervening connectors.
Don Tong
donald.tong@unisys.com
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:04:47 -0800
To: Barney McNamara
From: Derrick Garbell
Subject: CB antennae
> Also, at best they
>
>enhance perpendicular performance, that is up and down the road, at the
>
>expense of side-side coverage. That is supposed to be good for truckers
>
>cruising down the highway, but less than perfect for off roading
>randomly
>
>around the countryside.
Your ideas are correct. On my full size pickup the antenna were
side mirror mounted and almost 9' apart. This 8.5' distance sufficed for
adequate co-phasing. They talked and listened up and down the road, but
were noticeably weaker on the sides.
When on the road, they really did radiate front and back, probably
quintupling the range in those directions. It was phenomenal. When I drove
to a spot to park and talk, I would consciously point my vehicle in the
direction I mainly wanted to transmit to.
On a mini-truck, you could never approach the 9' quarter-wave rule
of distance between the antennae, so you're far better off with a good
single whip.
I recommend the Wilson 5000 or 1000 mag mount, and that you place
it on the center of your cab roof. You will get excellent omnidirectional
radiation and reception. The magnet will allow you to remove the thing
when you don't want to hassle with the CB gear. This magnet is huge, and
won't fall over at fast speeds or on bumpy roads. Also, the whip can be
unscrewed in five seconds if you don't want to remove the whole magnet &
coax assembly, in case if you're going under a carport, into a garage, or
are travelling under a stretch of really low trees. If they are medium low
trees, the whip can hit the branches without any problem.
Wilson can be reached at 800-541-6116 if you want to ask for
literature.
A good CB reseller is Halcon in Downey, 800-683-6999.
The Wilson 5000 is about $80 and the 1000 is about $60. I use the
5000 because I think it's a bit more powerful, and it will handle more
input power. If you are never going to use a linear, then get the 1000.
But you probably will want a 100 W - 200 W eventually, so I'd go with the
5000.
As far as radio's go, I urge you to get a SSB model. The Dynascan
Cobra 148 GTL is about $150, and can be tuned and modified quite easily.
It has the Uniden logic board that is so prevalent. Also, the Grant XL is
good.
======Derrick
----------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 15:29:15 -0400
From: rjhrfam@worldnet.att.net
Subject: CB
On the advice of the list I recently purchased Factory Refurbished Cobra
model 18 Ultra/WB and a 4' Firestick to go with. I am very happy. For
$28, the radio could not be discerned from brand-new. After I had the
antenna mount welded to my new custom 3x3 box rear bumper, I had the
SWR's checked. The shop owner was suprised and a little upset that such
an inexpensive setup worked so well and had flat SWR readings 1-40. He
said he cannot touch such a deal. First trailride with the new setup is
tomorrow, time for a real-world close-up commo test. I can talk to
truckers' et al, all day long, but it will cut out if I am too close to
an amped-out radio, some sort of self-protect says the shop owner.
Rick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 10:34:52 -0700
From: "Tong, Donald L"
Subject: RE: CB RADIOS
There were a lot of questions about CBs asked in the last day or so and here
is my opinion:
1) Which CB brands are good?
I'd suggest sticking with the name brands: Cobra, Uniden, Midland, etc.
Note the "etc." - there are others that I didn't mention. The best thing to
do is surf the web for CB shops and see what brands they sell.
FWIW, my last CB was a Uniden 510D that fit in the ash tray slot of my '91
4-Runner with no cutting. It worked really well, and I'd still be using it
if my buddies and I hadn't gotten a bug to get some sideband units. So I
keep the Uniden as a back-up and now use a Midland 75-290.
2) Which antenna brands are good?
The names you read about most often (in no particular order) are K-40,
Wilson, and Firestik. I also saw the name Solarcon recently but haven't had
a chance to research it. As with the CBs, surf the web and see what the CB
shops sell.
3) Which antenna types are good?
The best antenna is a 102" whip - that's a quarter-wavelength antenna.
Anything less needs to be loaded to match the electrical characteristics,
but just matching electrically doesn't mean it matches performance-wise. In
general, the shorter you go, the less performance you get. (I'm talking
major variances here - a couple inches between brands has no pratical
effect, but jumping from 40 inches to 5 inches makes a big difference).
4) What does an amp do?
Assuming you mean "linear amp" here, yes, it does increase the amount of
power applied to the antenna with the bottom line that it gives you more
range. The first thing to know about a linear amp is that it they are
illegal to use; CB is limited to 4 watts on the AM bands and 12 watts on
sideband. They are legal for other bands, which is why the are available.
Linears start at around 100 watts and move up into the thousands, so you
definitely want a good antenna. Somewhere I read that too much power fed
into a magnetic mount antenna can damage the paint. Fact or fiction? I
don't know.
Also note that at close range that much power can cause your friends lots of
grief. Make sure you have a way to turn it off or lower the power.
Don Tong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 11:06:45 -0700
From: "Tong, Donald L"
Subject: RE: CB RADIOS
One final note - somewhere along the way someone said it was worth paying
someone $10 to tune your antenna. I agree, and I disagree.
I agree in that the antenna needs to be tuned - no two ways about it. I
disagree in that for $15, you can buy the SWR meter and tune it yourself
(it's NOT hard). And you get to keep the meter so that you can re-check the
tuning any time you think there's a problem. Or help a friend. I've seen
guys lose the whip on their K-40 so now I carry a spare. But it's of no use
if it can't be tuned in the field.
Some SWR meters double as a Field Strength meter. You get someone to key
the mike and you walk around the vehicle to determine which direction(s) you
push the strongest and weakest signals.
Don Tong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 14:59:23 -0600 (CST)
From: Brian Wiencek
Subject: RE: CB RADIOS
> 4) What does an amp do?
>
> Assuming you mean "linear amp" here, yes, it does increase the amount of
> power applied to the antenna with the bottom line that it gives you more
> range. The first thing to know about a linear amp is that it they are
> illegal to use; CB is limited to 4 watts on the AM bands and 12 watts on
> sideband. They are legal for other bands, which is why the are available.
>
> Linears start at around 100 watts and move up into the thousands, so you
> definitely want a good antenna. Somewhere I read that too much power fed
> into a magnetic mount antenna can damage the paint. Fact or fiction? I
> don't know.
Another couple of points - with an amp (wihich I have to say again it IS
illegal) you might be annoying people for a 100 mile radius while only
able to recieve someone that's with 5-6 miles because of THE OTHER
PERSON's setup. - figure out what you NEED to do and why you want the CB -
if you're going to communicate long distances - get a ham license and do
it legally - if you're wanting communication on the trail and listening on
the highway - the cheap CB's do just fine.
As for amplifiers - you can get them in 20w, 30W, 35w, 45w, 50, 60
70,75,80,90,100 on a quick look, so NO you don't have to get a 100+ watt
amp. If you're contemplating an amp - I'd first look at your antenna
setup, optimize that, use QUALITY coax - not the cheap crimped together
stuff. Then look at modifying your CB radios internal amplifier - the
final transistors on most radis can be changed for a little more power
which is probably more than you should be running anyhow (I can change
mine in my radio and get 50W on AM. if I wanted to, but I have no need for
it - nobody that I wheel with or talk to has souped up radios, so I'd be
out of their range fast.
- - Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 13:15:57 -0800
From: "Eric Johnson"
Subject: CBs: please, no linears
PLEASE don't use an amp on CB. Such amps are called 'linears' and are
illegal to use in the CB band, for good reason. When you key up with a
powerful linear, the following happens:
1) You bleed signal all over the CB spectrum and often up into the 10M ham
bands
2) You signal comes in loud and clear for so many miles that everyone within
50 miles thinks you are right there and they try to respond... choking up CB
traffic for a huge area for a period of time.
3) You can't hear any further with an amp (unless the person transmitting is
also using one), so its of little use.
4) You mostly just piss people off.
For trail work, any crappy old CB with any old antenna works fine, since
typical vehicle-to-vehicle distance are so short.
But it is nice to have a longer range. If you wanna reach out far with CB,
legally, without messing other folks up, get a nice unit with SSB capacity.
SSB can legally use higher wattages and doesn't suck up the bandwidth that
AM does. Midland makes a real nice SSB unit with a DIN sized chassis and
removable faceplate. For what you'd spend on a decent AM unit plus a linear,
you can buy a real nice SSB/AM unit.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 16:34:32 -0700
From: "Tong, Donald L"
Subject: RE: please, no linears
> But it is nice to have a longer range. If you wanna reach out far with CB,
legally, without messing other folks up, get a nice unit with SSB capacity.
SSB can legally use higher wattages and doesn't suck up the bandwidth that
AM does. Midland makes a real nice SSB unit with a DIN sized chassis and
removable faceplate. For what you'd spend on a decent AM unit plus a linear,
you can buy a real nice SSB/AM unit.
The Midland unit mentioned is the 79-290. I've got one mounted in the dash.
Information on how to modify this radio for 10 watts AM and 25 watts
sideband is available. I did this at one time and decided it was more of a
detriment than a benefit. My buddies still have theirs kicked up, but I've
since backed off to legal levels. Why?
At close range, you're kicking out too much power unless you use the radio's
MIC button, which cuts down your output power. At the same time, everyone
else has to use the LOCAL button because even at reduced output, you still
transmit enough to overload everyone's receiver.
Then, when you start to get separated, you've got to remember to turn off
both the MIC and LOCAL buttons, otherwise they don't hear you and you can't
hear them. And it's not just you, but everybody has to remember to do this.
Real life example - here we are, four vehicles with hot-to-trot CBs, running
up US-395 in pairs, and the two pairs can't communicate because half we've
all got the MIC and LOCAL buttons turned on for short range communication
(with the other half of our pair). Then, when we want to talk to the other
pair, we turn the buttons off, but they can't hear us because they've still
got LOCAL switched on. So everyone around can hear us calling except the
person we're trying to call. It all kind of defeats the purpose.
And that's with only 10 watts AM. I'd bet that at 20 watts, that LOCAL
button wouldn't be effective, and the only way for anyone near you to
protect their radio would be to shut it down.
Don Tong
'91 4-Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 20:46:36 -0700
From: David Fritzsche
Subject: Whip's
All of the organized runs that I have looked into in California have a
whip restriction. Keep your whips in your playrooms at home not on your
truck.
David Fritzsche
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 22:55:35 -0800
From: Roy Hafeli
Subject: re: CB antenna
I agree that the long stainless whips can be dangerous and really don't work
any better than a good bottom loaded whip. And forget those Firestiks and
other fibreglass so-called whips. They dont flex and shatter easily. Great
on the mirror of a semi, garbage for a bush 4x4. Check into a bottom loaded
whip antenna like a Larsen NMO-27 antenna or a Maxrad, also with an NMO
mount. Those are the antennas you'll find on emergency vehicles, towtrucks
and other commercial vehicles. When you get one, make sure it's for the CB
band (27 MHz) because ones meant for VHF/UHF look like the NMO-27, but wont
work. The other nice thing about these antennas is that they come in
components. If you bend the heck out of the whip, just replace the whip.
If the coil gets damaged (unlikely), replace the coil, not the whole thing.
These whips are VERY flexible. You can grab the tip and pull it right
around and it wont get a permanent bend. And they work EXCELLENT! After
installation, make sure you match the antenna to the CB with an SWR meter.
If you dont have one, get the shop to match it or, as someone else
mentioned, get a Ham operator to do it. Heck, he might even help install it
for you! Better yet, read the book and gey your own license. No more noise
and irritating skip, much more power available and more frequency space.
73 de Roy VE7IBJ
(Take care, this is Roy, who's Ham radio call is VE7IBJ. VE7 is the
province of British Columbia)
President, Mission Amateur Radio Emergency Services Society
Provincial Emergency Program - Municipal Amateur Coordinator, District of
Mission
-----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 08:52:29 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
Subject: Re: CB antenna
My firestik can bend down and touch my hood (TJM 13 CB Mount). I also
got the firestik stainless steel spring at the base of my antenna to
help it flex. So, people can get those firestiks but they might also
need to pay the extra $10 for a SS spring.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 11:36:15 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Re: CB INFORMATION
those in the bay area (SF bay area), bill's 2 way is in gilroy. i passed
by there going to hollister to pick up a mic set.
the guy runs it out of his garage, so when i asked him what time he was
open, he said when the baby starts to cry in the morning... 8-))
he has tons of stuff. call ahead to make he has it when you drop by.
about less than 10 minutes from HWY101...
great prices since he has next nil for overhead...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 25 Feb 1999 10:59:39 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astrapharmaceuticals.com
Subject: Cobra CB radio
"AM" whine comes from many sources...
The biggies - Ignition and Alternator.
Id start with a new set of wires. Best set that I have heard
about is made by Magenecore. They are not cheap.
I have personal experience with a 22RE and they have far
better supression than Jacob's wires.
A cheap AM transistor radio is good fer determining how
noisy the ignition wires are - tune it to a "non" station
and wave the antenna near the wires - if the static gets
louder - the wires are leaking noise.
EWong
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