Mail Order Experiences
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:54:43 -0800
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: DOWNEY-BURN (bad business)
To: "'amigo@azstarnet.com'"
Did you pay with a credit card? If so, have your credit card company
withold payment.
I've found that retailers like this are pretty easy to get even with when
the facts are on your side. I'd get a hold of a decision-maker there. This
is important - ask the person you talk to if they, personally, have the
power to get you your money back. If they dont, and aren't willing to put
you on the phone with someone who does, you'll have to give this story
twice - first time to the person you talk to, which will scare the crap out
of them, and then they will turn the phone over to someone with such power.
Explain the following:
1) That you're going to dispute the charge with the credit card company,
and hell will freeze over before they get the money
2) They LIED TO YOU, and you're gonna let the world know about it. Then
explain that you're gonna post warnings about them all over the internet
(don't tell 'em you already did!)
3) You're going to inform the CA state Attorney General's office about
their unethical business practices.
4) You're going to write to ALL the 4x4 magazines (list the one's you can
think of off the top of your head) and tell them how badly they treated
you.
5) You're going to relay the story to all your Toyota-owning buddies, the
TLCA, etc... and encourage them to do all their business with NWOR instead
of Downey
6) Now get medieval on their asses. Break out the legalese. :) Tell them
that under the Uniform Commercial Code (which governs the sale of goods in
at least 49 states, CA is one of them), they have a implied warranty of
merchantability (UCC sections 2-315, 2-316), which provides that the goods
are reasonably fit for the purpose in which they are manufactured and sold.
Want a case reference? try Vlases vs. Montgomery Ward and Company, Inc, US
Court of Appeals, 3rd circuit, 1967 377 F.2d 846. If you've stated the
facts of the case correctly,
7) Now explain that you can and will easily prove this in court. Can they
prove you wrong? No, they can't, and they know it. Tell them you're gonna
take them for the $56 in damages, PLUS court costs, PLUS attorney fees,
etc. Are you physically far from them? Let them know you can probably get
the case heard near your home, not theirs, and its gonna cost them a bundle
just to show up to the case (this part isn't true - state rules typically
require venue to be in the county of the defendant, but the guy on the
phone isn't gonna know that). Its not a high enough dollar amount to take
to Federal court, I'm afraid.
8) Salt to the wound department: Demand that in addition to the above, you
get a personal letter of apology from the president of the company.
In short, make the money they owe you seem like a bargain compared to the
hell you're gonna put them through if they don't make good on it.
Now, you might not want to break out all these big guns right away, but I
hope I gave you some ideas :) I am not an attorney, but I play one on the
net. :) While I believe the legal crap I quoted is the applicable statutory
and case law, you ought to consult a real attorney for real advice.
I HATE it when companies screw us with shoddy products... I've always hated
Downey's warraty policies anyways, but it even says "this...warranty will
include freight charges Downey error is involved"... so get your frieght
charges back from them. Also, the part of downey's warraty that says "due
to lack of control over products supplied to Downey from other
manufacturers ...[they] carry no Downey warrantee whatsoever" probably
won't stand up in court for a second.
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 16:29:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Henry Cubillan
Subject: DOWNEY-BURN (bad business)
To: Eric Johnson
In addition to Eric's EXCELLENT suggestion, if you happen to be a
foreigner or a member of a minority group, don't forget to mention that
you're going to sue them for discrimination based on race, gender,
religion, etc... Anything that augments their headache !! It is widely
known that off-roaders in general have become tight on the internet, and
it could mean a big dent in their clientele if you were to start a
campaign against their place; a few months ago somebody had a similar
situation and posted it on another mailing list that I belong to, and a
couple of weeks later the owner of the place publicly apologized (on the
web, and by letter). If you really feel that they screwed you, i say
screw them back; just because there aren't many Toyota or Land
Cruiser-specific places out there it doesn't mean that we have to put up
with shoddy service and/or unethical business practices. After all, we
are the customers, and the customer should be king !!
No experience with Downey, seeing as they don't have much stuff for 60's
(insert grumble here)
Henry J. Cubillan
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 19:30:17 -0800
From: Gary Bjork
Subject: DOWNEY-BURN (bad business)
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
At 09:54 AM 10/29/96 -0800, you wrote:
>Did you pay with a credit card? If so, have your credit card company
>withold payment.
>
>I've found that retailers like this are pretty easy to get even with when
>the facts are on your side. I'd get a hold of a decision-maker there. This
>is important - ask the person you talk to if they, personally, have the
>power to get you your money back. If they dont, and aren't willing to put
>you on the phone with someone who does, you'll have to give this story
>twice - first time to the person you talk to, which will scare the crap out
>of them, and then they will turn the phone over to someone with such power.
>Explain the following:
>
>1) That you're going to dispute the charge with the credit card company,
>and hell will freeze over before they get the money
>2) They LIED TO YOU, and you're gonna let the world know about it. Then
>explain that you're gonna post warnings about them all over the internet
>(don't tell 'em you already did!)
>3) You're going to inform the CA state Attorney General's office about
>their unethical business practices.
>4) You're going to write to ALL the 4x4 magazines (list the one's you can
>think of off the top of your head) and tell them how badly they treated
>you.
>5) You're going to relay the story to all your Toyota-owning buddies, the
>TLCA, etc... and encourage them to do all their business with NWOR instead
>of Downey
Whoa!!!
Do not, I repeat DO NOT, threaten businesses with a report to TLCA. We have
had some very bad experiences with members trying to use TLCA's name as a
threat to get a remedy. A couple of businesses have almost withdrawn from
TLCA because a member implied that TLCA was going to sanction them.
The proper procedure is to write us a letter stating the problem and all
pertinent facts. We keep this on file, and in certain instances we will do
an immediate follow up but not usually. If we get more than a couple of
complaint letters we will then contact the business. If we get more
complaints we will take further action up to and including revocation of
their business membership.
We do take complaints seriously and we have gone as far as to revoke a
business membership, but please let us to the talking for TLCA.
Keep the Rubber Side Down,
"NightLight"
===================================
From the computer of. . .
Gary Bjork
Editor, Toyota Trails
Toyota Land Cruiser Association
editor@tlca.org
Publication office ph/Fax: 916-642-4220
Membership info: 1-800-397-3260
WEB: http://www.tlca.org
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 15:58:11 -0600
From: "Jay Kopycinski-RYNA10"
Subject: DOWNEY-BURN (bad business)-
To: "TLCAL@tlca.org%azbcsm1"
Subject: Time: 11:26 AM
OFFICE MEMO DOWNEY-BURN (bad business)
Date: 10/29/96
Scott Rowin wrote:
> Well folks, I thought Downey was a reputable business.. I found out
>otherwise.
snip
I have not had much problem with Downey, but have with NWOR
as several others I know have had. They shipped me a defective
spring and I had to fight with them to return it. They finally
took it back and admitted it was bad, but made me pay return
shipping and shipping for the replacement. So I ended up paying
shipping three times.
Others I know have been outright lied to about some of the products
they sell and I know one friend that couldn't get them to back their
product warantee a week or two after he bought some plug wires
|from them. They made him go thru the wire company and hassle
with returning them that way.
I have found in dealing with both Downey and NWOR that you should
call and ask lots of questions before you buy. Also, if you are the
least bit unsure about something, call and ask again. I have found
that some of their order people are not very knowledgeable and
their information can change from call to call.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 1996 09:37:20 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Downey burn
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
Not to rain on anyone's parade, but I thought I'd give my 2 cents here
regarding this situation, from a manufacturer's viewpoint and also as a
Downey customer.
>Well folks, I thought Downey was a reputable business.. I found out
>otherwise. I had bought a rear pre-runner bumper for a 4-Runner ('88). When
>I received the first one, it was scratched --
My experience with bumpers you don't buy directly from the manufacturer at
his plant is that they are shipped by truck freight (bad) or UPS (worse),
and scratches are INEVITABLE. No reasonable amount of packing by the
manufacturer or distributor is going to keep a large and heavy item like a
bumper safe from the shippers. IT'S NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. I used to be in
business modifying Mercedes subframes, and I had to send these monsters all
over the world. I would always warn my customers that the subframes for
their $80,000 cars WOULD ARRIVE DAMAGED by the freight company, and unless
they physically brought their cars to me in person, I could not guarantee
the condition their parts arrived in, despite employing a guy full-time
just to pack and ship them. With labor, materials, etc., I would spend
about $100 each in packaging each subframe (not including shipping). I
usually shipped 2 cans of black Wurth paint with each subframe. Scratches
on an off-road bumper are going to happen when you take it off-road; I'm
assuming your bumper was too badly damaged (i.e. more than just scratches)
to be fixed by a $5 can of Rustoleum.
>I just got screwed at least $55 by them (not to mention a bunch of
>long distance calls), and WON"T BE DOING BUSINESS WITH DOWNEY EVER AGAIN!
>May I suggest you avoid them as well.. I'm quite bummed businesses are still
>pulling this stuff, and will be shopping more wisely next time.
My experience with Downey has been quite different. I accidentally left
some parts I bought on their counter when I was at their shop in SoCal a
few weeks ago. I got home to NorCal (500 miles away) to discover a message
on my machine telling me I had left these parts behind, that Downey would
ship them to me at no cost, and to call them and tell them when I wanted
them shipped. They didn't ship them immediately, because they knew I was on
vacation and they didn't want the parts sitting on my doorstep while I was
gone.
The parts, advice, and service I have received from Downey have always been
top-notch. They have actually saved me money by recommending items OTHER
that what they carry. For example, rather than have my buy their rear
spring pack and add-a-leafs, they recommended I keep my Rancho rears and
rebuild them. They even sent me two dozen of their anti-friction spring
pads to do so AT NO COST. Cost to me? A phone call. Cost to them? Spring
pads, shipping and handling. I've bought a lot of stuff from them, and I'm
a happy Downey customer.
But you are not. So, what can you do now? Ordinarily, I would recommend
calling the owner, but it seems that he's the source of your problem. Call
your credit card company, and see if they won't intervene for you. They're
very good at this. It's their raison d'etre. I'm sure they can reach a
happy solution for you. Maybe also faxing a copy of your post to Downey
will persuade them.
So we have two sides of the same coin. I guess we should hear from everyone
else, just like the Cool Cruisers thread last week. So send 'em in!
Downey: Good or Bad?
c/o TLCAL@tlca.org
Good luck to you, Scott.
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 1997 22:55:44 -0600
From: "Michael Rowe"
Subject: NWOR
To:
- ----------
> From: CONRAD
> To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Subject: Re: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #79
> Date: Saturday, February 22, 1997 5:08 PM
>
>
> Twice I ordered from NorthWest. Twice I asked for the TLCA discount and
was
> assured I would get it. Twice I paid full price. I now shop elsewhere!!
> jc
>
I also have been burned by NorthWest Off Road. I received their newest
catalog which showed a rocker switch with pilot light that plugged right
into the factory pop-outs in the dash. After paying ~$46 for two and
shipping I waited. I was told they would be here in a week. Two and a half
weeks go by of giving them the benefit of the doubt so I call. Billy-Boy
the operator tells me they are on back-order and it will be another week or
so. I asked him why the hell someone couldn't call to let me know. He
mumbled around and I hung up. Six weeks after the initial order they
arrive. I sigh and proceed to install. Whaddya know - no pilot light just
a plain old rocker switch that lights up on contact (just like the $2
ones). Only difference between these and the $2 ones - you don't have to
cut a mounting hole in the pop-out cover. I called them explaining my
grief. After getting the runaround (the customer service option goes to a
message board where you leave a name and number and hope they call you
back) I finally demanded to speak to someone in charge. He said that, yes
they knew they weren't pilot lit that the catalog had gone to press. This
still didn't explain why the moron taking the order didn't tell me. After
receiving a return authorization sticker I sent it back, having been
assured I would be given a full refund (normally there's a 20% restocking
fee). A month later my credit card statement shows a credit minus the
restocking fee. They refunded my original shipping (not the return
shipping). I suppose since the shipping was less than the restocking fee
they would refund that. I called back and talked to the head of customer
service again - twice. He merely put me off by saying he was checking on
it. I called several more times and left messages, none of which were
returned. Now that's customer service. They serviced me right over to
Downey and anyone else that has what I need.
Michael Rowe
'88 4Runner SR5 V6
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Mar 97 09:20:21 CST
From: "Brian Gallus"
Subject: NWOR BASHING
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Let me join in the ranks. Ordered a set of R&P gears from NWOR in
June of last year. They arrived in a box that was crushed and the
gears were chipped and in very poor shape. Called NWOR and they said
that there was absolutely NO POSSIBILITY that they were at fault.
Blaming it on UPS. Allow me to state that the gears, unlike the
Richmond's that I now have, were NOT packed in Styrofoam, just
separated by a piece of cardboard.
Anyway, NWOR, after nearly a week of giving me the run-around, blamed
UPS and said I had to take it up with them. Called UPS, they picked
up the gears and gave me a claim number. Talked with UPS the next day
and they said they would pay the claim - TO NWOR! Called NWOR and
ordered another set of gears (daily driver which is now w/o rear
R&P!). They said I'd have them in two days. Two days came and went.
Never got the gears. Called to complain and they said they canceled
the order because I had already purchased a set of gears from them.
Explained the situation to EVERYBODY who works there (YUP, Let me
transfer you to someone who may care more than I...) and the
explanation that I got was just plain stupid. Apparently they will
NOT refund money when UPS pays them for a shipping problem. Their
policy is to replace the purchased item. Fine I said, when can I have
another set of gears. Well, the process normally takes 3-4 months,
they said. ARGH!!!! Bottom line, I was forced, because I needed to
drive the darned vehicle, to buy another set of gears. I have never
seen a refund nor a set of gears from NWOR to replace the set damaged
in shipment.
Like everyone else, I called cust (dis)service. As usual, I got
passed from person to person until I decided to call the owner. Left
numerous messages for him, but never received a call back. The last
that I heard from the company, they said they "can't" help me.
It turned out that I was on the phone with the guys at Downey a couple
of weeks after this all happened. The general feeling over there is
that NWOR doesn't care about it's customers. It seems Downey is
getting a large customer base from people pissed at NWOR.
With regards to their "Lifetime Warranty" on headers. I also wanted
to purchase one of their headers for my Runner, but decided not to
when I heard horror stories about their warranty. Seems the warranty
is not with NWOR but with the manufacturer of the header - no they
don't make their own. NWOR is under, from my understanding, no
obligation to disclose the name of the manufacturer!!!
My .02.
Brian Gallus
87 Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Mar 1997 13:51:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Ross Raymond Fahlen
Subject: NWORS
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Okay, it's my turn to bash NWORS. On last Tuesday I noticed that one of
my front springs that I have had for about 1.5 years, was sagging bad.
The shackle on the drivers front was almost hitting the frame. When I
bought the springs, the warranty that they said they had was one of the
high points of choosing their product. So on Wednesday I called up and said
that I would like to talk to someone about warranting my springs. First
they gave me the run around saying, just a minute let me transfer your
call, just a minute let me transfer your call, and so on. This would
make me mad, since they do not have a toll free #, but I live within, two
minutes of the store, so it isn't long distance. Next when I finally got
through the nice lady took my info and said that I would receive a call
back within twenty four hours. So I wait until Monday morning, to give
up on their calling back and I tried them again. I again got the run
around, and then progress when I finally talked to the owner John. He
said "How can I help you?" I tried to tell him, about the springs, but
before I could get out my problem he said "where do you live?" I said here
in Bellingham. He said "take it off the truck, and bring it in. If it
is bent at the U bolts I will have to send it to the factory." I sad
can't you just look at it on the truck? "No I have a jig that tells me
if it is bent or not." So frustrated as heck i said Okay thanks, and
hung up. This is my daily driver, and i cannot allow it to be down while
he sends the spring to the factory. Also when I go into the showroom,
parts are consistently higher in cost, than when I get home and look in
the catalog. How about thirty five bucks for a pinion nut and crush
collar. Does anyone have any suggestions comments, or similar
experiences. I could understand if this were a soft spring, but it is
not, by any means soft.
Thank you all
Ross Fahlen
Western Washington University
Bellingham Washington
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 10:26:16 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: NWORS
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Ross Fahlen wrote:
"...last Tuesday I noticed that one of
my front springs that I have had for
about 1.5 years, was sagging bad. The
shackle on the drivers front was almost
hitting the frame. When I bought the
springs, the warranty that they said
they had was one of the high points
of choosing their product.
"He said "take it off the truck, and
bring it in. If it is bent at the
U bolts I will have to send it to
the factory." I said can't you just
look at it on the truck? "No I have
a jig that tells me if it is bent or
not."...This is my daily driver, and
i cannot allow it to be down while
he sends the spring to the factory."
You definitely have a problem. I have a solution that would be acceptable
to the owner of NWOR, but I don't know if it would be acceptable to you.
Right now, you have to make a decision. Do you like the NWOR springs enough
that you would buy another set?
If you do, then tell the owner you would like to buy another one to replace
your bent one because you can't afford to have your truck down. If his
"jig" does indeed find that the spring is bent and he will honor your
warranty (from what I hear about NorthWest, not very likely), he can refund
your money on the replacement spring you already bought. Get it in writing.
If you don't like the springs, you'll have to buy another set (I personally
recommend Downey, Rocky Mountain Off-Road, or National springs) and wait
for NWOR to determine whether or not they'll honor your warranty. If they
don't, tell them and everybody else that will listen how you feel about
them. If they do honor the warranty, turn around and sell the springs and
recoup some of the money that you spent on the new set.
I have heard way too many horror stories about NorthWest Off-Road to ever
spend a dime there. It's too bad that people try to do business like that.
My current favorite shop is Rocky Mountain Off-Road in Grand Junction,
Colorado. They have a toll-free number, cool parts, and friendly people.
Good luck to you, and don't forget to use new U-bolts when bolting that new
spring into place.
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:50:46 -0600
From: "ARTHUR RUMPF"
Subject: Buyer Beware
To:
> I have been sorely disappointed in the (lack of) customer service
> that NWOR provides its customers. I think NWOR should change its
> motto to "The bitterness of poor customer service remains long after
> the sweetness of low price is forgotten"
>
Sounds like there hasn't been any improvement since 1989 with NWOR. I sent
them $2200 for an HO supercharger kit that they "had in stock". I got a few
pieces with a notice that the SC was backordered. A month later it arrived
damaged. They had wrapped a 45 LB piece of expensive equipment in some
newspapers and shoved it in a box. The pulley on the snout was broken. The
inspector from UPS was not impressed with their packing methods. To make
matters worse, they had absolutely NO INTEREST in squaring away my order.
Why should they, they had my money. The whole thing was my problem, THEY
had insured the package. They even accused me of breaking it!!! I felt like
I had SUCKER written on my forehead. Once I found out the manufacturers
name and talked to him directly he sent me the parts I needed next day air
with the instructions to install them. To make up for the jerks at NWOR he
sent me a quick change pulley kit ($150 option) at no charge. NWOR wanted
me to ship the SC back to them at my expense to see what they could do.
What a bunch of losers! Guess how much business they have gotten from me
since?!!!!! Wow, I feel better now, I've wanted to tell someone that story
for a looooong time.
Buyer beware.
Happy Trails
Art
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 00:50:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Buyer Beware
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Sounds like there hasn't been any improvement since 1989 with NWOR. I
> sent them $2200 for an HO supercharger kit that they "had in stock". I
> got a few pieces with a notice that the SC was backordered. A month
> later it arrived damaged. They had wrapped a 45 LB piece of expensive
> equipment in some newspapers and shoved it in a box. The pulley on the
> snout was broken (snip)
Sorry to hear about that mess. FWIW, my last two orders (4wheel parts
wholesalers and Downey) both went through without a hitch. I let them
know that I had to recieve the orders by may 16th, and it all got here
on the 8th and 9th (cool). Everything looks and is the way I expected
it--no surprises/disapointments.
Now the main reason I'm writing: How do you like the supercharger??
Tell me more about it!
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 12:11:17 -0400
From: Sheldon
Subject: FWPW
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> >I heard on the radio 4Wheel Parts Wholesalers is having a big sale this
> >Friday and Saturday. The add was specifically for the San Jose and
> >Oakland store, I don't know if it is for other stores or mail order.
> >Just thought I'd let y'all know.
> >
> >Scott
Funny you shold mention FWPW. I needed a dropped drag link real bad due to
installing new springs last weekend. So I looked through a few mags found
the cheapest was FWPW, and orderd one. About 2 hours later the guy called
saying they were all out oof stock :( but he had a super lift draglink for
50.00 bucks more!!! I really needed this because my draglink cups are shot
and I can wiggle the rod by grabbing it. So I told him I 50.00 bucks was a
little too high, " how about 20.00 bucks more instead and I would buy it".
You know what he said, okay, I still got ripped a little, but don't mind
cus it came this morning and I won't be leaving for home today without it
installed which will make me feel much safer. So sometimes a little haggle
can work, at least with this guy at FWPW. Thought I'd pass that on.
Sheldon
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:06:50 PDT
From: "Boyd,Tom"
Subject: FWPW
To: Toy4x4-request@tlca.org, Toy4x4@tlca.org
I had a similar experience. Seems there is a two-tiered pricing system
there. A mag price and a full-retail price. Study before you go.
Tom Boyd
San Mateo, CA
86 4Runner
tboyd@pa.xerox.com
- ----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 20:21:27 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: O2 senser
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Mckillips@aol.com wrote:
>
> Can someone tell me if replacing the o2 sensor will fix my problem with the
> code 21, or do i just have a mixture problem somewhere ? thanks doug (88
> 4runner 3.0)
I wish I could tell you that. I wish someone could have told me that
was the problem with mine when I was getting both rich and lean codes
from my computer also. :) Mine went at 125k miles. If your due for
an O2 sensor, that's probably it. DO NOT try to get an aftermarket O2
sensor for your V6...I played that game already...not fun. Get the
factory one. As I recall my local Toy parts department wanted about
$125, but with my 25% TLCA membership it went down to $95.
I know it's killing band width, but I'm gonna repost what John Foster
put up earlier, I imagine this guy will beat you dealers price by a lot.
***
I have recently been in contact with Scott Tate, who has offered to make
a deal with members of the Toy 4x4 list. He currently makes the same
offer for TLCA members, and is extending it to members of the mailing
list too. I know commercial advertising is frowned upon, but I though
I'd pass this offer along to the list for those whom it might benefit.
Scott is offering to take 25% off of factory parts if you are a member
of the list, just let him know.
Scott Tate
email: landcruiserpartsman@msn.com
phone: 800-256-6225
fax: 713-995-2695
UIN for ICQ: 704475
address: Sterling McCall Lexus
10422 Southwest Freeway
Houston, Tx. 77074.
***
Scott
- --
Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o
Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_)
http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/scott
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 07:54:01 -0400
From: Jason Matthews
Subject: Factory Parts for Less
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
While everyone's mentioning a 25% parts discount...Mechanicsville Toyota in
Va offers parts at significant savings as well [some examples: front brake
pads for 93 Toy $32/reg. dealer $64, EGR valve for $70something/reg.
dealer $125. They ship FedEx, are very helpful, and I have not had any
problems. They run an ad in the back of Car and Driver and maybe some
other magazines, and you must mention the ad when you call to get the
lower price. Their number is 800-338-5538.
Not trying to turn this into an advertising forum, but maybe help save
some $$$ to put towards other toys...
- --
Jason Matthews
93 V6 X-Cab
email: jmatthew@msai.mea.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Jul 1997 09:53:59 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Bad 4WPW Service
To: Toy 4x4 List
I've always done my buying at 4WPW through their San Jose store, with
pretty good results. Last week I decided to place an order with their
mail order service out of Gardena. I just thought I'd share my results
with their mail order service, it may save someone the hassle I'm going
through.
I ordered two items last week...some poly bushings, and Downey's IFS
Truss Tie Bar. I was told they would (not that they might) arrive at my
house Tuesday (yesterday). Today I call them up to see if it's just
gonna be a day late, or if worse...they lost it. I got an even worse
answer...AND I HAD TO WAIT ON HOLD OVER 30 MINUTES TO GET IT! Now they
say the bushings are back ordered for at least a few more days, and that
it'll be 2 weeks till they can get me the tie bar! This is ridiculous!
I was transfered to my original sales person, and I inquired as to what
happened. His response was basically...Tough Luck! And he denied
saying it "would" be delivered on Tuesday. This isn't a case of it
being "a little late," that wouldn't really upset me. But I've already
waited 5 days, and now they're saying 2 more weeks! Now thats
irritating.
My advice to any of you ordering mail order from 4WPW, make them check
stock BEFORE they take your order, and make them PROMISE you a date by
which it will be delivered. Hopefully you'll have better luck than me.
I will never use their mail order service again.
Scott
- --
*****************************************************
Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
88 4Runner SR5 V6
Santa Clara, CA
http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/scott/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 09:03:58 -0400
From: john skaggs
Subject: brakes that don't
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
If you do end up needing a new Master Cylinder here is what I found.
Tuesday I noticed that my M/C was leaking, so I called around for the
best price. I called Sterling McCall Toyota out in Houston Texas,
Jay Mark's Toyota also in Houston Texas and Napa here in Ohio.
Sterling was $66.00 (including 25% off for TLCA Dis.) and Jay Mark's
was $61.00 (including 25% off for TLCA Dis.) both were new OEM.
Napa was unbelievable at $156.00 for their M/C. Jay Mark told me that
Toyota had just lowered the price a week ago from over $120.00. IMO
this is another reason to join TLCA. These prices are for a 85
4Runner 22RE.
John Skaggs
TLCA# 5560
85 4Runner (gettin taller soon)
Akron, Ohio
John.Skaggs@ab.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 97 06:40:53 -0500
From: john_j_harville@amoco.com
Subject: Aftermarket Wheels....Use caution
To: Toy4X4@tlca.org
>Chris Caldwell writes:
>Okay, do any of you guys have aftremarket wheels on your Tacoma? If
>you do, what kind and size?
>And did you get a new vibration from them?
Buyer beware......
A couple of days ago I have found out some disturbing information
regarding aftermarket wheels. I purchased 15 x 8 American racing
"Gambler" rims w/ BF Goodrich AT 31x10.50's. I bought them from a
discount mail order firm and have been disappointed since the
purchase. It seemed as though the wheels would always vibrate....even
right after balancing(which I have done three times). Upon closer
inspection of the tires, I had assumed they were the culprit as they
had a nasty habit of picking up stones between the treads. These
stones would sometimes stay wedged between the tread even at highway
speeds. So after being thoroughly disgusted with the BFG's, I bought a
set of Cooper Discoverer SE 265 75R15's..which I might add look
extremely nice on the truck. Well, when the local shop was balancing
my new Cooper's, the installer called me over to look at something. He
had noticed that the rims were off center. So even if he could balance
them, I would most still feel vibrations due to the rims spinning in
an elliptical pattern...he was right. He said that this is a pretty
common thing in aftermarket wheels, and he's seen alot of it. I am
extremely pleased with my new Cooper's, but pretty pissed off at
American Racing rims. I mean, what kind of shoddy QC program do they
have to let this type of defect hit the streets for sale? Anyway, to
make matters worse, the mail order firm will not replace the rims, as
they insist the rims were centered, balanced, and otherwise defect
free when shipped to me. In short accusing me of negligence or bending
the rims. Did I mention that these rims have never been off
road(read..neglected, abused, etc). So the moral of the story is buyer
beware. I would not recommend anyone buying tires/rims through these
discount houses you find in the back of 4x4 magazines.
Mad as hell.....
John Harville
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:12:48 -0400
From: "NUNES, ROB"
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
> snip
> >I'd appreciate any input on a) doing this to a 4Runner b) rust
> >restoring/preventative chemical stories c) suspension lift input
> (I'm
> >considering the NWOR 3-1/2" setup).
>
Jay wrote;
> The NWOR springs are VERY stiff and don't count on them
> backing their warantee with any decent service....been there.
> ______________________________________________
>
I have to second this statement about NWOR. I had problems with four
leaking Douche-Tech shocks. NWOR gave me a hard time about returning
them. It took about a month to get them replaced. Three months later,
the new shocks started to leak again. This time I returned them right
into the trash barrel. I will never buy Douche-Tech products again.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 16:04:19 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: NWOR
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:41 PM
OFFICE MEMO NWOR Date: 8/27/97
john skaggs wrote:
>Jay, I'm just curious. Why do you still list NWOR on your web page if you
>wouldn't recommend them?
They do sell some good stuff and some of it at good prices, I just
now know that if I order from them I can't expect them to back
some of their products like a quality company should.
Cases in point......
I bought a pair of their 3.5" front springs. After I installed
them, one side sat almost 1.5" lower than the other. I called
them and told them. After making me call them back repeatedly
with all kinds of dimensions, they finally agreed to ship me
another spring and charge my account. After I shipped the
defective spring back to them, they admitted it was defective
and credited my account for the spring cost, but would not pay
either way shipping charge for the replacement.
A friend of mine ordered some Jacobs wires and found they
didn't work on his truck. They would not accept them back
but made him go to Jacobs. He never got his money returned.
Another friend called on some nerf bars, specifically asking
if they were thicker wall than the Smittybilt bars. He was
assured they were. He ordered them.....and the bars that came
were Smittybilt bars. They took them back but I think he
had to eat the cost of shipping.
I recently heard they will not warantee suspension products
once they have been installed, despite the fact that the parts
manufacturer gives a lifetime warantee.
I think the big catch is that they do not honor any warantees
on parts the supply from other manufacturers. If they send
you a defective part you have to go back to the manufacturer
to get it replaced or corrected. This is subtly stated in their
catalog.
I had an Advanced Adapters part I ordered from them. It
appeared to have a rough bearing in it. I had to call AA
and ship it back to them for replacement. Mind you AA
was nice and did it without problem and the price I got
it for from NWOR was good, but it seems NWOR should
provide some customer service from their end rather
than have you chase down the original manufacturer.
I can't recall any other place I've dealt with that would
not service defective or wrong parts rather than make
you go back to the manufacturer.
They gots their good points and their bad.....my opinion only.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:37:47 -0600
From: daves8@juno.com (DAVE SCHOENBERG)
Subject: NWOR
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jay and all you other Toy fanatics,
Sorry about quoting the entire letter and taking up all that bandwidth
(whatever that is), but I thought it was important enough to do it.
Now I'm really confused (seems to happen about every other letter I
write).
If NWOR or any other company treated me like that, I would simply refuse
the credit card charge and tell VISA to charge back to the vendor due to
poor quality of merchandise received and lack of response from the
vendor. This would include shipping and handling in a case like that. I
would then tell the vendor that they can have their merchandise back as
soon as they send UPS to pick it up, at their cost. Had to do it many
times over the years and haven't lost yet.
Of course, if you paid with a money order, check, cash (or a debit card
instead of a credit card) you're screwed and at the mercy of whatever
D**khead you end up with on the other end of the phone.
Remember that you, as a consumer, still have certain rights in any
transaction.
Course, it probably also means that they won't want to sell you stuff
anymore, but by then I'd be looking elsewhere anywhere.
God, I'm an arrogant basta*d.
Dave Schoenberg
Arvada, Colorado
'81 Toy/'86 EFI engine/5-spd/xfer--an' I did it all myself
Wiring can be good for you!!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 28 Aug 97 09:01:13 MST
From: chott@aicd.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: NWOR
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
>If NWOR or any other company treated me like that, I would simply refuse
>the credit card charge and tell VISA to charge back to the vendor due to
>poor quality of merchandise received and lack of response from the
>vendor. This would include shipping and handling in a case like that. I
>would then tell the vendor that they can have their merchandise back as
>soon as they send UPS to pick it up, at their cost. Had to do it many
>times over the years and haven't lost yet.
>
>Of course, if you paid with a money order, check, cash (or a debit card
>instead of a credit card) you're screwed and at the mercy of whatever
>D**khead you end up with on the other end of the phone.
I am the person who ordered the "thicker" nerf bars from NWOR and got
Smittybilts. They agreed to take them back, but I paid for shipping.
I put them back in the original box and taped it up real good. About
a week later, they arrived back at my house, with a note from NWOR
saying they were damaged in shipping and that they would not take them
back. There were a couple little scratches in the paint.
Luckily I paid for them with Discover, who I told to stop the charges.
They could not get NWOR to rectify things, so Discover card themselves
paid the charge and put a note in their file about what NWOR did.
I was told by Discover to keep the bars or sell them, my choice.
So in the end, Discover card covered the problem, not NWOR. I have not
dealt with NWOR since, nor will I, no matter how cheap their prices are.
Just my opinion,
Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.mot.com
1985 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:17:58 -0400
From: jeff4cars@juno.com (Jeffrey Samler D Samler)
Subject: Cepek screw-ups
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Elmar Cannon wrote:
>I am writing this to let you all know something that I had to learn
>the hard way but you probably know already, Don't buy stuff from
>Dick...Cepek. I just found out that the Superlift springs that I bought
>
This is just your opinion. I ordered my nerf bars and my GTS stuff from
them at seperate times both with no problems. I also just ordered a Go
Rhino! Grill and Brushgaurd combo from them which I should receive any
day. I have always found their prices to be low, their shipping pretty
quick (about 7 days to NJ from California), and their shipping prices are
pretty fair. I will gladly order anything from them again based on my
prior experience.
Jeff
jeff4cars@juno.com
1989 SR5 V6 Extra Cab, 5-speed, 90,000 miles,
4" Trailmaster Lift, 33" BFG A/T's on American Racing
Alloys, Go Rhino! Chrome Nerf Bars, GTS all around,
Sony CD-Player w/D-Bass
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:28:09 -0400
From: Jason Matthews
Subject: Performance Products
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Oct 1, 8:54am, David Inabinet wrote:
> Subject: Performance Products
> Has anyone ordered anything from Performance Products? I get their catalog
> and I have never ordered anything. I was checking out some of their push
> bars for my 97 Tacoma and I wanted to know of anyone's experience with them.
> THANKS!
>-- End of excerpt from David Inabinet
I have used Performance Products before when in a bind, found their customer
service to be extremely helpful, but the prices are a little on the high side.
I'd find what I like in their catalog, then call around and check prices
somewhere else.
- -------
Jason Matthews
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 1 Oct 1997 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Performance Products
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
They have been great to work with!
---------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 8 Oct 1997 14:20:41 -0500
From: john_j_harville@amoco.com
Subject: Warning......NWOR does it again!!!!!!
To: Toy4X4@tlca.org
Despite the bad press NWOR has received on this list I decided to give
them a try myself. Ordered a set of new(rebuilt) fuel injectors from
them on September 25th for my '89 V-6. I needed them ASAP so I payed
an extra 9.30(18.30 total shipping charge) to have them sent 2-3 day
priority mail. Called them back on October 1st to find out where my
injectors were. They gave me some song and dance that I should of had
them by now and that they will send out another set. Well, come to
find out they never processed the order until Oct 1st when I called to
find out why it was taking so long. So after receiving the order 12
days later, I called NWOR thinking that I was entitled to a refund of
my expedite shipping charges due to their screw up. Bottom line was
they refused to refund my money bescause of their mistake. They cannot
give me a tracking number of the illedged first shipment......because
there was no first shipment. They got their tit in a wringer and it
ends up costing me money.....what a concept!
I spoke with the manager(John) and the salesman(Peter), both whom
refuse to give me a refund. Well, it's a safe bet that I will NEVER
use NWOR again!.....and I suggest you guys/gals do the same. I have
made the call to the credit card company and have initiated a dispute
to the charges. They will handle it and take up the issue with NWOR
themselves. NWOR stands for "N"ever "W"ill "O"ur people "R"efund your
money(even if we did F--K up!).
Thanks NWOR for the lesson learned.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 16:03:05 -0400
From: Ed Ruf
Subject: Warning......NWOR does it again!!!!!!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On 02:20 PM 10/8/97 -0500, john_j_harville@amoco.com wrote:
> Thanks NWOR for the lesson learned.
John,
Obviously, (well assumed) you paid by credit card. Immediately call
the credit card customer service # for the account. Explain the
situation and request a charge back. Follow this a will a letter to
that effect, since they usually require written notification. Make
NWOR eat the whole thing, IMHO for something like this!
Ed
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 09:05:23 -0500
From: Brian Gallus
Subject: NWOR..
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Oh, here we go again!!!! Y'know, I'm the kind of guy who will give someone a
second chance. Heck, if I'm in a good mood, I'll give them a third, but after
that, they are history!
I'm sure some of you remember the story I told about 7 months ago of my dealing
with R&P gears with NWOR. Well, thought I'd give you an update! Hey, I think
you'll get a chuckle... I did!!
I was digging through my desk here at work - actually cleaned it for once -
when I came accross the receipt and case number for the
damaged-in-shipment-I-want-this-fixed dealings with UPS. What the heck, I gave
them a call. Very nicely asked them what the satus was and they said.. "Well,
doesn't look like we've gotten the paper work back from NWOR yet..." Hmmm...
doesn't that sound interesting!!! It's been about 16 months since this all
began and NWOR hasn't filed the paper work yet!!! So I give them a call. Must
have gotten a new person, because she (I believe her name was Sandy) was
actually very helpful and pleasant on the phone. She took down the case # and
tracking # and asked me to give her a call in a couple of days. Two days later
I call back, expecting to hear Sandy say "The check is in the mail" - hey, as
cynical as I am, I sometimes get a speck of optimism.... Well, I ask for Sandy
and John answers the phone....
"I'm Sandy's boss. She told me what's going on and... " BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.
They want a written letter explaining everything, copies of my receipts and
invoices and a copy of the UPS receipt. He was kind of an ass about it, but
hey, I'll give it a try... I'll be sending the info to them next week..
Hmm... Whatever happened to Sandy??? My guess? She got severely reprimanded
for her kindness and willingness to help and had to attend the NWOR school of
Sh#$ty Customer Service because she just DIDN'T GET IT the first time!!!!
Now for my problem... I want to order a set of low profile bump stops, but
don't want Downey Orange... I also want NWOR's 10lb heavier flywheel...
Anyone out there want to order this stuff for me?? If it arrives at your
place in one piece, you can send them to me and I'll reimburse you for
everything, along with a nice *bonus* for being the only person I know who can
get stuff from NWOR w/o hassle!!!
later,
bkg
- ----------------------------------------
Brian K. Gallus
Dynamark, Inc.
BrianGallus@Dynamark.com
- ----------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 10:59:28 -0400
From: Jason Matthews
Subject: NWOR..
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Subject: NWOR..
> Now for my problem... I want to order a set of low profile bump stops, but
> don't want Downey Orange... I also want NWOR's 10lb heavier flywheel...
I have ugly Downey orange...and was kind of disappointed with it at first.
But I sure am happier now after hearing this...and if I ever want a heavier
flywheel, sounds like I'll be using Liquid Nails to glue lead plates to mine
before I ever deal with these assh***s....
DOH!....feeling myself getting run over now....
Guess we could all call NWOR, say "Hi, this is [John's/Brian's]
[brother/friend], and I called to express my disappointment with your handling
of this matter"...
Probably wouldnt mean sh** to these guys, but hey, would tie up their phones and
probably irritate them just a little...[I'd say it would run up their bill too,
but they are already either too cheap for an 800#, or too worried that customer
complaints would run up the bill]
Just some thoughts, would hate to have this happen to me...
- ------
J.Matthews
93 V6 X-cab
No NWOR products, never will now....
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 13:44:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: NWOR..
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-10-09 10:03:09 EDT, you write:
>
> Now for my problem... I want to order a set of low profile bump stops,
but
> don't want Downey Orange... I also want NWOR's 10lb heavier flywheel...
> Anyone out there want to order this stuff for me?? If it arrives at your
> place in one piece, you can send them to me and I'll reimburse you for
> everything, along with a nice *bonus* for being the only person I know who
> can
> get stuff from NWOR w/o hassle!!!
> later,
> bkg
My low profile bump stops came without a problem. It may have been one-time
luck though...
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 11:51:43 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: NWOR..
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brian Gallus wrote:
> Now for my problem... I want to order a set of low profile bump stops, but
> don't want Downey Orange... I also want NWOR's 10lb heavier flywheel...
FWIW:
Just ask Downey for red bumpstops instead...That is what I did after the
guy brought out the orange ones. Also, the flywheel sold by both Downey
and NWOR is manufactured (or originally sold by) Centerforce.
- --
Jim Brink--Toyota/ASE Certified Technician '86 Std. Bed 22R
Manhattan Beach, CA 32x11.50/15 BFG M/Ts
(brinkjm@earthlink.net)
************************************************************************
TLCA# 6184/ Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 11:16:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: NWOR.. and roof rack
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Just some pro with NWOR. I just bought their roof rack for my 1985
4Runner. It fits very well and it seems very heavy duty. The rack arrived
on time, in good condition. The directions to install were not written
very well since they were hard to understand (and I have a Ph.D.!). They
used the word 'lower' in one place when they meant 'rear'. There are two
holes in each mount (upper and lower), 4 mounts (front and rear pairs).
But once installed (took about 30 minutes), it looked real nice. It even
has 4 light tabs. Plus, the mounts do not show in the interior! They
designed it so that the mounts only went through one layer of fiberglass,
and not both. There are a few places where there are two layers of
fiberglass with a gap between them, like at the corners. This is where
they mounted the rack. So, I have no holes going all the way through.
I have bought many things from NWOR and Downey. I haven't had a problem
with either them. NWOR helped me out once when my old 4Runner was totaled.
They sent an itemized list of the stuff on my truck, with the value to my
insurance company, to increase the appraised value.
I will try and get pics on the net of my sweet 1985 4Runner SR5 on the net
soon.
Dr. Karl Bellve
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-3785
Fax : (508) 856-1840
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 04 Nov 1997 14:42:55 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: NWOR sucks again
To: Toy 4x4 List
NWOR sucks again. I've already vowed not to frequent that supplier, but
I have a credit that I need to spend there.
Speaking of the credit...that's my latest reason they suck. I returned
an item I had bought from then because it did not install as advertised
in their catalog. They argreed they were in error and had me send the
item back to them.
A month later I get the credit...minus a 20% restocking fee.
Quote from my NWOR invoice..."All returns, unless found to be an error
of NWOR are subject to 20% restock charge."
NWOR was in error, they admitted they were in error, and took the horns
back from me. No restocking fee was ever mentioned because 'they were
in error.'
I called NWOR just now and explained the situation. After talking with
a couple people who are unwilling to re-admit they were wrong, and are
unwilling to credit me my 20% restocking fee, I lay it on the table for
the guy...
I tell ask him if he realizes that we're bickering about $12.59 when I
plan to purchase an item that costs more then $60 over the amount of my
credit? I also tell him if they do not credit me the $12.59, I will
take my business elsewhere, after spending my the amount of my
credit..but no more than my credit. He responds with that's fine, but
we won't credit you the $12.59.
I told him he has just lost a customer for good, and I plan to share my
experience with NWOR customer service with as many people as possible.
We each hung up, end of conversation.
I'm considering adding a "NWOR sucks" page to my websight. Then others
could send me their 'NWOR sucks' stories and I could post them all for
everyone to see. What do you think?
PLEASE...IF YOU HAVEN'T DEALT WITH NWOR YET...DON'T!!!! SAVE YOURSELF
MONEY, AND A BIG HEADACHE!!
Scott
- --
_____
/_/_|_\__ Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 CA4WDC #13393
| _ _ : 88 4Runner SR5 V6
*/_\---/_\' Santa Clara, CA
(_) (_) http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Nov 1997 18:01:27 -0600
From: "Michael Rowe"
Subject: NWOR sucks again
To:
Same thing happened to me a year ago. What a bunch of idiots up there. Mine
was over their direct drop in light switches with pilot lights. I get them
and lo and behold, they don't have a pilot. The only thing special about
them was their price and the fact that you didn't have to cut out a switch
hole in the plastic popouts. I returned them and got a partial refund
(spent 1.99 on a switch from Manny, Moe and Jack). They said their catalog
went to print too late to fix it. Whatever dillweed, my friend just got his
new one about a month ago and they're still claiming that they're pilot
lit. Coincidentally I never got a new catalog, I assume because I actually
had a beef with Customer disService. My friend hasn't bought anything from
them in 4 years and still gets a catalog once a year free of charge. NWOR
can suck poison worms and fry. I'd be glad to put up a NWOR sucks page,
submit it to search engines and warn people.
Michael Rowe
'88 4Runner
http://www.southpadre.com/offroad.htm
"Reduce, Reuse, Recycle - Eat a Bologna Sandwich"
---------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:33:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Ross Raymond Fahlen
Subject: NWORS
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Dear list,
I am one of the first people that would love to see NWORS clean up their
customer service. After having spent 300 for a header that I intended to
pay 200 for (oh you wanted the ball joint connector? Well yes. Oh you are
a catalog reader, well the price has gon up on the header since the
catalog went out). There was also the 2 sets of springs that sagged and
bent that were not honored by their Lifetime Warranty. Lifetime Yeah
right! I live here in Bellingham so I have had the pleasure of meeting
the owner whose name is John. He is an interesting guy. He is real nice
until you mention his warranty or that you are unhappy with something
that he puts out. He makes fun of my friend who basically has built
three trucks with his products, everytime he comes in, because he had a
time when he bought a bunch of center pins. They now call him "center pin
Seth". I happen to work at an offroad shop, and the people that have
spent a bunch of money do not have a nick name. I treat them with
respect. The main counterperson in the showroom drives a jeep. Anyway
back to my point Here is their address: P.O. Box 1617
Bellingham WA 98227-1617. As I said the owners name is John. NWORS is
also a member of SEMA, I am sure SEMA would not like to hear that one of
it's members has crappy customer service. Oh yeah one more thing, I
personally know a few of the ladies who have worked for him in the past.
They have told me stories of how he would go on a rampage screaming
obscene language at them, for stupid little things. They no longer work
for him.
Happy Mail ordering!
Rosco
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:46:23 -0500 (EST)
From: chuck+4runner@Yerkes.com
Subject: NWOR sucks again
To: m.rowe@mail.utexas.edu (Michael Rowe)
It is claimed, but unverified, that Michael Rowe wrote:
>
> Same thing happened to me a year ago. What a bunch of idiots up there. Mine
> was over their direct drop in light switches with pilot lights. I get them
> and lo and behold, they don't have a pilot. The only thing special about
> them was their price and the fact that you didn't have to cut out a switch
> hole in the plastic popouts. I returned them and got a partial refund
> (spent 1.99 on a switch from Manny, Moe and Jack). They said their catalog
> went to print too late to fix it. Whatever dillweed, my friend just got his
> new one about a month ago and they're still claiming that they're pilot
> lit. Coincidentally I never got a new catalog, I assume because I actually
> had a beef with Customer disService. My friend hasn't bought anything from
> them in 4 years and still gets a catalog once a year free of charge. NWOR
> can suck poison worms and fry. I'd be glad to put up a NWOR sucks page,
> submit it to search engines and warn people.
If you're having problems with a Vendor for misrepresentation
recall this:
1) Postal Code: you have 30 days to return ANYTHING you buy via
mail. See your postmaster or write postmaster general. I
believe this still holds true for FedEX/UPS shipped goods.
2) You can (in writing) dispute charges through your credit card
company.
3) You can/should file your legitimate complaints with:
The Better Business Bureau (http://www.bbb.org)
Your Attorney General's office
The Attorney General's office in the state that NWOR is in.
When their lives get miserable enough from credit cards
withholding or denying payments and an AG or two starts asking
questions (and people here just spread the word and boycott them)
perhaps they will reform their ways (in which case we should reward
them) or they'll collapse. It might happen.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 9 Nov 1997 19:59:23 -0800
From: denmother4wd@juno.com (K. Johnson)
Subject: NWOR Again
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Yes, the owner's name is John Hendricks. Having been raised in the
Bellingham area, I have seen some of the changes at NWOR there are many
rumors circulating as to the reason for this "attitude". I have bought an
occasional part at the store and although you think the customer service
over the phone is bad, local or walk in customers are probably treated
with even less compassion. Anyone who has ever been in the store knows
that along with Toyota specific items they do also carry non-specific
vehicle items such as: off road lights, tow straps, high lift jacks, warn
winch kits, multi purpose axe/shovel tool, snatch blocks, tree straps and
shock boots to name a few. I normally will purchase all of my Toyota
replacement parts from my local dealer in Bellingham as they are easy to
deal with and will give our club members a discount, but for all of our
aftermarket toys even the locals find it easier to drive some distance to
another supplier or mail order rather than to deal with poor customer
service and a hassle with returns. Just some info and my .02
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:09:45 -0800
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Con Ferr catalog
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I just got in the mail a Con-ferr catalog I ordered. They've got some cool
stuff for toyotas, and a lot more than their items carried in the Downey
and NWOR catalogs. One thing I noticed that was really cool is a combo
pre-runner grilleguard with winch mount for solid-axle pickups. They've
also got a variety of nice bumpers that are inexpensive, and the end caps
are sealed welded steel, so I suspect they are far more rust resistant then
the Smittys.
They also have lots of inexpensive brackets and so forth; things like 2"
receiver hitch receptacles you can bolt or weld to another bumper, weld-on
shock mounting brackets, blitz can carriers, push plates/pads, and so
forth.
One thing that was kinda weird though is that the catalog is dated 1992(!).
It was $5 and the address is 123-211 South Front St., Burbank, CA
91502-1983
- --
- - ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:09:39 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: 4-wheel parts wholesalers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> back,and waiting on the phone for an hour i found out that the guy who
> took my order had misspelled my name!On the box it said "Darren
> Lowen"instead of Darren Floen.When i picked up my stuff i found that
> there was no invoice to give customs,so i had to improvise.When i got
> my Visa bill i found that they had overcharged me by about $100.00 US.
>
> Definatly not my favorite place to do business,but they are in the
> process of making everything right.
I've always had pretty good luck with them, though my last order was
kinda a pain. Since I'm the only one (it seems like) who has a credit
card, I was ordering some stuff for one of my friends.. some gears,
install kit, a steering damper ect. Anyway, when I ordered the stuff,
some of it was more expensive than I was expecting, so I asked if there
would still be time to make changes to the order at a later time. The
guy said 'yes', as long as I did it before middle of the next day.
Okay.
I talked to my friend, and he decided he didn't want a few things, and
wanted it shipped UPS instead of priority. Anyway, I called the next
morning to try and change my order. I tell them my name, and what we
ordered. He puts me on hold. 15 minutes later he's back.. 'uh sir, we
don't have any record of you ever placing an order.. but our system is
kinda hard to track. See, yesterday the guy taking the order wrote it
down on a slip of paper. Then that slip of paper get's transerfed
through three different buildings and five different departments. It's
extremely hard to track these things....' ect. He goes onto recommend
that I call my credit card company to see if it's been billed yet. So I
call, nope, not billed yet. Call 4wparts again (wait for 15 minutes on
hold as usual..), finally a guy answers, I tell him my story, and ask
what the deal is. All I want to do is make a change to my order! Well,
he goes on about how they can't track it.. very easilly. Asks me who
took the order.. shoot how would I know that? I tell him I don't know,
and basically, this means the order is lost. GREAT. Then he connects
me with another service department, and I leave a message (voice mail).
And hang up tired of this mess.
Believe it or not, 20 minutes later, I actually did get a call from
them. The guy said he was pretty sure they new what dept. the order
slip was hiding in, and I told him the changes. He said they'd find the
order, and make the changes. To his credit, they actually did make the
changes, and it only took about 5 days until we got it (even though it
was 2nd day). Overall, the experience left me a little pissed.. but oh
well. Another thing that bugged me, was that one of the installation
kits had already been opened, dug through, dirtied up, and just sorta
dumped back together. IE no shrink wrap, no bags, just a pile of greasy
parts in a box.
They also put the gears on backorder, but didn't say a thing about that
when I ordered them. God I hate backorders. My friend was really
looking forward to getting those gears, and even had an appointment at
the ford place to get them done, but no gears. But they did charge me
for them. What I really hate about that though, is that when they ship
the gears later, they'll bill me AGAIN for shipping. So instead of
paying say 100 dollars shipping for the whole mess we'll get to spend
say, 80 bucks each time.
And to add further insult to this, I decided to call them up and ask
when we could expect to get the gears. As usual, I get transfered
through a few systems, and finally to a voice mail. I leave a short
message, then call back again. This time I get a sales drone, and he
tells me that they were shipped on the 9th (it was the 9th when I
called). I asked him to double check. 10 minutes later.. 'actually we
expect to recieve them on the 19th, then we'll ship them out to you.' I
hate crap like this!! Later that day the person I left voice mail
called back, assuring me that they would be shipped out on the 15th.
Sure.
And don't even get me started on Dick Cepek!! (It took my friend 15-20
some phone calls, plus 4-1/2 months to get his flares, shipped 2nd day
blue label).
_______
Jonathan Albrecht __. /_/__|__\__
albr9619@uidaho.edu __/__|\___ |_.--.__,--;
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619 :--.__|.--.|,---- ~'(__)'`(__)
`'`'`''`'`'`''``'`'`'`'`''`'`'``'`
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jan 98 16:03:39 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: 4-wheel parts wholesalers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>don't have any record of you ever placing an order.. but our system is
>kinda hard to track. See, yesterday the guy taking the order wrote it
>down on a slip of paper. Then that slip of paper get's transerfed
>through three different buildings and five different departments. It's
>extremely hard to track these things....' ect.
I hate the system there. it does an OK job for them but as you said there
really isn't a linked order entry/accounting/shipping/inventory system in
place there. One positive thing I have heard (from their customer service
department) is that they are in the process of moving to ONE building which
should help the processing of orders substaintially !
- - Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Mar 1998 09:44:30 -0800
From: Brian Gallus
Subject: 4WPW question.
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Has anyone out there had difficulties ordering from 4Wheel Parts?? I
ordered a Jacobs coil and wires plus Energy Suspension low profile
bumpstops for the 4Runner a week ago. The coil they sent me was for a
Ford, they only sent me one set of bumpstops (thank god they only billed
me for one) and didn't send the 83-92 Mazda wires yet... But I got
billed for the entire thing, including $29.50 in shipping and other
handling charges!!!!
$29.50!!!! What's up with that? And what's this $9.90 internal handling
charge? And $19.60 to UPS-Ground a 3 lb package? That's obscene! And
when asked about it, the guy said "I don't know why the sales person put
that on there..."
Called their customer service and received nothing but attitude and
run-around. Don't mean to flame them, but when I asked about why I was
sold a Ford Coil when I specifically stated 1987 toyota 4Runner 22RE,
the customer service dude say "Hey, you didn't talk to me then...
you'll have to take that up with the sales person." Um... "aren't you a
customer service person??" "Well you'll have to talk to the sales
person".. What's up?
I called Jacobs about the part numbers... The coild won't work on the
4Runner. In fact, according to Jacob's cust. service, the entire system
must be installed or the truck won't even start... So much for just the
$32.00 coil replacement...
Oh, I heard rumblings a while ago about them charging for the entire
order even when the entire order isn't shipped - yup. same thing. When
asked about it, got nothing but a run-around. Is there any mail order
place out there that can get things right the first time and not be such
jerks when they screw up?
signed,
pissed-off in MN....
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
Brian Gallus 87 4Runner SR5
BrianGallus@DynaMark.com 33's, 4.88's, TrueTrac
Vadnais Heights, MN 3" Rancho, 2" body
Minnesota Toyx4's #95 / MN4WDA / TLCA #5581
http://www.off-road.com/~MNTOYX4
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:26:21 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: 4WPW question.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
They really pissed me off when i ordered my lockers.we ordererd two
Detroits and two True-tracs,over $1100 Us.You'd figure they would get my
name right on the box,but they didn't.They also over charged my $100 on
the deal.Last time i ever deal with them.
Darren
-----------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 13:02:37 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: 4WPW question.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brian Gallus wrote:
>
> Has anyone out there had difficulties ordering from 4Wheel Parts??
I've had better luck dealing with their San Jose store, than with mail
order. Mail order promised the product would arrive in X amount of
days, and when it didn't I called. They claimed it was on back order
now....they should've checked that before promising the part were going
to arrive.
Scott
- --
_____
/_/_|_\__ Scott Wilson
| _ _ : Santa Clara, CA
*/_\---/_\' http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
(_) (_)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:28:12 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: 4WPW question
To: Toyota 4x4 List
Brian Gallus wrote:
>Has anyone out there had difficulties ordering from 4Wheel Parts??
Couple of weeks ago I ordered an ARB and gear master install kit from
Drivetrain Warehouse (which is really 4WPW). Their prices were good
and the parts arrived promptly. What did bug me though....... the sales
guy asked if I had a catalog yet and I said no. He said ok, I'll send you
one.....no mention of it costing me anything. When I got the invoice and
parts I found I had been charged $5 for the catalog and a $5 handling
fee on the order. Kinda pissed me off he never mentioned I would be
charged for either. After hearing the complaints here about working
thru their customer service lines, I didn't bother calling to complain
about it.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Mar 1998 09:14:56 -0800
From: "Don M. West"
Subject: Performance Products policy
To: Toyota 4x4 mailing list
With the 15% sale mentioned, I also have considered the TJM bumper so I
called Performance about it. Yes, the sale is in effect until March 15th,
but I was very put off by the billing policy. Despite the fact that the
bumper I'm interested is OUT OF STOCK they would bill my credit card
>immediately<, not upon shipment. Plus they show 5 of those bumpers due at
the end of March and there's no way to guarantee that they haven't already
been sold. So if they are already sold, it could be 3 more months at least
to wait...a total of 4 months waiting, but immediate billing? I was not
impressed, 15% sale or not, and hung up.
4WPW usually handles ARB bumpers, but has been trying to get a price for me
on the TJM as well. Performance may have the better price, but those
billing policies for such costly items are just not good business practices
imho.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Apr 1998 21:10:37 -0500
From: Michael Woodruff
Subject: LC ENGINEERING
Just wanted to pass along my POSITIVE experience with these guys. I don't
think anything I've ordered from Downey or NWOR has ever been shipped
correctly, had the right parts, or been what I expected. Unfortunately, no
one else has some of the parts we use for our Toy's. Well I ordered some
plug wires, a Crane ps91 coil, had my injectors rebuilt and flow-matched, as
well as the throttle body bored 3mm over.....all from LC Engin. Everything
came today, all the right parts, instructions-everything complete, my fuel
injectors had a print out showing there matched flow pattern, and they
tested mt throtle body sensor (N/C) which the dealer told me was bad and
wanted $170.00 for a new one. They checked it out and said it was fine. They
even put some cool stickers in for free!! Thats solid gold in my book......
Just thought I'd pass this along, I'd definitely recomend them. I plan to
order headers from them next.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 12:44:07 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Warn CS praise
I finally got Randy at Warn to give me a call back (he's a busy guy they
tell me)....I guess he's the guy who handles the warrenty issues for
their hubs. After I explained to him what happened, he said that what
I had was an 'extremely' rare failure for thier hubs, but he'll be happy
to ship me a new one. It should arrive Friday or Monday. He also said
to keep the damaged hub for spare parts, or as a trail spare. Wow.
Customer service like that is hard to find! They've definately made a
loyal customer outta me. :-)
Scott
- --
_____
/_/_|_\__ Scott Wilson
| _ _ : Santa Clara, CA
*/_\---/_\' http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
(_) (_)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:05:33 -0500
From: "Neil McMullen"
Subject: new exhaust / superchargers / oil capacity
I just got a new custom 2.5 inch cat-back Dynomax exhaust system put on my
92' 22RE today. Boy do I like it.. looks real cool too! The sound is a bit
deeper and a tad louder, but a big improvement over my former whimpy
exhaust. I have not driven with the new Dynomax long enough to tell what
performance gains i'll get. Out the door (including installation and sales
tax) I only paid $140
If anyone is looking for cheap factory Toyota parts I found a place called
Jay Mark's Toyota (1-800-327-2087). They sold me the parts (all factory)
for my tune-up real cheap; plugs $1.09 a piece, wires $32, cap $8, rotor
$3.25, fuel filter $17.78. The shipping cost from Texas to me in Missouri
was only about $5. After checking with my 'local' Toyota dealer (50 miles
away) it looks like I saved $$$$ doing it this way. While on the phone with
Jay Mark Toyota I commented about the new supercharger for the Tacoma. He
said that he has one in STOCK right now. The parts guy, Jeff was real nice.
No, i'm not getting paid for this small infomercial, rather I enjoyed the
good customer service and low prices they gave me.
After a few posts it looks like my 92' 22RE will hold around 2.8 quarts in
the 5-speed. No word yet how much the transfer case (really would like to
know) will hold. (Front/rear differential capacity as well would be
great..hint) It looks like Redline is going to be my choice, just don't
want to order way too little or too much for that matter...
Thanks,
Neil McMullen
1992 Toyota 4x4 22RE
K&N, Bridgestone Dueler AT's, Explorer ProComp 3000's, 2.5 inch Dynomax
cat-back exhaust
____________________________________
mailto:mcmullen@asde.com
http://www.asde.com/~mcmullen
******************************************************
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 17:02:07 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: Junk Yards
>
>There is a yard on the net that does a lot of mail order stuff,
>Toyota Auto Parts, I have not dealt with them, but have heard good
>things: http://www.taprecycling.com/
>
Just my opinion but I would put TAP righ up there with Northwest, only a
last resort!! There are atleast three other Toyota wreckers right next to
TAP that are a lot better!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 08:48:28 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott Ellinger
Subject: Re: Winch Company
> Anyone know much about these guys?
> http://www.piercesales.com/
> PIERCE SALES
Yeah. I bought a winch from them. The 12,500, about eight
months ago.
Customer service was good, but after they shipped me the wrong
winch the first time, it better be.... :)
What happened was that I ordered the 11" drum winch, and they
shipped the 8" because of an order entry error when they put
my order into the computer.
They offered to call-tag the wrong stuff and get the right one
out the same day, (UPS ground) but I needed it faster than
that, and had them send out the different parts (drum and main
shaft) red label instead, and credit me for the shorter ones
when I sent them back.
In the process of dismantling the winch to swap it over, I
found a very minor casting flaw in an internal seal spacer, and
sent that back for replacement too.
All the parts were back in my hands about as fast as UPS could
get them here via ground (except that internal spacer) and in
good condition.
FWIW, my impressions of the winch itself are that it is of very
good to excellent quality, but very heavy, and slow. It's not
a vehicle recovery winch; it's a wrecker winch. It's made to
be used (and abused) all day; that's why there's two oil baths
in it, and why it's so heavy.
I have stalled it during one stuck, but I was able to get it
going again when I released some tension by churning tires
forward to get the truck moving slightly. Two hours of trading
off winching and "driving" got me out (eight inches at a time;
I was really stuck :) ) and the winch is none the worse for
wear.
As I said, it's big, heavy, and slow, but it'll pull a fair bit
more than anything else (there were two Warn XD9i's pulling on
the same truck right next to me with no movement during my above
mentioned stuck--and he was sitting in pre-tracked snow, while
I was in fresh, and sunk to the tops of my tires)
- --scott
Scott Ellinger ellinger@holly.colostate.edu Larimer County 4WD Club
Visit my Home Page: http://holly.colostate.edu/~ellinger
'86 Toy pickup body, Ford 5.0, GMC NV4500, "slightly altered" RKSTMPR
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 16:28:35 -0500
From: Robert Stein
Subject: Re: Winch Company
Well, being as they are a company that is REAL close to my home, I can
tell you that their winch's look alot like a worm driven tulsa winch and
so far in all the years I've never heard anything bad about them. I DO
know that their prices have come WAY down over the past few years and if
you catch them at the right time, you can usually get one HECK of a good
deal on the winch, roller fairlead, and I think remote set-up.
Been looking at one for years now , but never seem to have the spare
cash to get one :(
Hope this helps ,,,,BTW, Pierce has been in business for a VERY long
time and they have a good reputation for lower prices than their better
know competetor,,,,,
- --
Robert Stein rjstein@lawtonok.net `85 SR5 X-Tra Cab
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 May 1998 21:47:36 -0700
From: "ward"
Subject: drive train direct
On wednesday I ordered 4.88's and a detroit locker and truetrack and the
install kits from drive train direct. Thursday afternoon they were
delivered to my front porch. UPS left them on my front porch! nobody was
home so UPS left $1328.00 worth of parts on my front porch! Ever been mad
and happy at the same time ? I'm putting in the locker and gears in the
rear end tomarow. I liked dealing with these guys ( drive train direct )
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 19:55:01 -0600
From: Rob Boyle
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Alcans
Jay Kopycinski wrote:
>
> Rob Boyle wrote:
>
> >I have come to the conclusion that the guys at RMOR are salesman
> >first, 4 wheelin buddys second.
>
> Hmmm...I'm kinda surprised to hear this. I kinda thought they were
> Toy freaks with lots of mod experience.....judging from the feedback
> on the list and in the mags.........
> Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
>
I was Just on the phone with Jason talking about this. We talked about
how the Dick Cepek draglink is probably not the best one for the job
because it is too large by the time you put the clamp on it. He said
I was the first one to mention it to him. Other styles of drop draglink
( like Tony Bartlett's) don't have the extra clamp around them. When I
mentioned that the drop drag was not even necessary he said it was all
about bump steer, not that the stock one was too long. This is not what
Kevin was telling me. Kevin was the one that said my stock link wouldn't
cut it as a spare. I personally Don't think an S link is gonna do squat
for bump steer. No matter how many bends you put in that rod it still
connects point A to point B, as though it was straight.
The reason Jason called me was to let me know that my doestch techs
came in. I still like the guys, and still will buy stuff from them. But
I will not take there word on things with out checking it out my self
first. Its just that I'm a little disappointed. I thought I had found
the "Perfect Toyota shop".And like the good salesmen I suggested they
were, they told me they will try to cut me some extra slack on my next
purchase. This is not meant to be a slam on them, just sharing my
thoughts with everyone.
- --
Rob Boyle 85 4runner 225,000 miles Kayline soft top
Bronco 33-12.5's Downey super clutch
4.88 gears with EZ lockers F&R
New 5" alcans for the front
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 02 Jun 1998 21:48:16 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: NWOR lifetime header results
Well, I called NWOR find out what needed to be done on my header that
cracked. I removed the header and found the tubing cracked at one of
the welds.
NWOR informed me that if that was the only problem they would just weld
it back up and send it back. The best thing would be to take it
somewhere local to have welded so I would not have to pay for shipping
and have the delays.
To my surprize that satisfied me. It is reparable and I am sure that's
all they would do. so, I will be having it welded by a friend soon, I
think he is in Moab right now.
Toyota Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 20:55:24 EDT
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Re: Mail order LockRight
Leon Rosser Jeep ( http://www.thinkjeep.com ) will get one to you for $199
plus shipping (like $206 total) unless the Taco is totally weird. I have yet
to see someone beat that. Yes, they sell stuff other than for Jeeps. They
are located in AL, and have one of the best customer service reputation I have
ever heard.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 13:44:52 -0700
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Doetsch Tech Shocks
I spoke to John Kimes, owner of LC Engineering last week and he asked me
to pass the word on that they now carry the full line of Doetsch Tech
shocks. LC Engineering can be reached at (520) 505-2501.
I have no affiliation with LC Engineering or Doetsch Tech. This is for
information only and I am just passing it on for those that may be
interested. Please, let's not turn this into a thread, bashing either LC
or Doetsch Tech products.
Thanks!
Jim Brink
List Admin.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 23:04:27 -0500
From: michael
Subject: Toyota parts
In my recent search for parts from one end of my 4runner to the other, new
and used, I found the following had the best prices.
Nippon Direct 800 485 5050 Very helpful, new parts
TAP 800 765 7100 Despite some bad stories from others on the list, I was
pleased Browns Toyota City 800 848 4451
Also, I just had front and rear diffs built with 4.88's and an ARB for the
rear. I shoped and called several places before I went with Drivetrain
Direct in California. A fella named Dave helped me. These guys are
absolutely the best people I can remember buying anything from. Very
cordial, excellent prices, quick shipping, unbiased, warrantied work. I bet
I spent 45 minutes on the phone (more than once) trying to decide on parts,
lockers, etc., and they could not have been more helpful. Makes spending
ALOT of scratch much easier.
Drivetrain Direct 888 584 4327
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Oct 1998 11:14:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Karl D. Bellve, Ph.D."
Subject: Brown's Toyota
Well, I placed another order with Brown's today. Mostly hoses, passenger
side seat cable, rear window channels ($15 each) and their rubber gaskets
($6 each).
One thing with them, if you get the retail parts guys, they don't give you
a break on the prices. Always ask for Skip to get the best prices.
------------------------------
Back to the top of this thread
Back to the top of the General Info group
Back to the top of the Toy Thread Tree