Typical Questions
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Date: 4 Aug 1997 09:26:09 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: I need advice
To: "Dana Adams" , "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 9:01 AM
OFFICE MEMO I need advice Date: 8/4/97
ad366@lafn.org (Dana Adams) wrote:
snip
>Axles: I am considering only trucks with solid axles, and am wondering
>about their strength. in the TLC list, there is lots of talk about breaking
>the front birfield joints. It seems a rather not-uncommon occurrence. Does
>this occur with regularity on the minis? How about snapping axle shafts,
>front or rear? I am considering running either 33 or 35" tires with
>proper gears for rock crawling, and lockers.
The main reason people break Birfields is due to stressing them at
full turn lock. They need to be kept inside the factory steering angle
limits. If you exceed the angle limits the stress on the Birfields rises
drastically. Also, do not try to stress them hard trying to climb a
ledge at a hard turn lock....this is when they'll snap.
I personally think they are quite strong and have yet to break one.
I think a Dana 44 might be a tad stronger in the joint area, but not
by much. I am speaking from a rock-crawling viewpoint. Mud running,
jumping, etc would probably pound the Birfields pretty good too, but
these are generally not hard steering lock activitie...more straight
line.
Things that will stress the joints more:
Lockers (no axle release of torque any more)
Swampers,Bigger Swampers, Boggers (SO much traction)
Manual vs. Auto Tranny (an auto will be kinder to the whole drivetrain)
I've never seen a front axle shaft snap on a Toy truck....only Birfileds.
They are good size (30 spline)
I've seen only one rear axle ('85) snap and you could tell the axle
has a metallurgy flaw in it. The shafts are big (1.30").
Depending on gear ratio, you'll almost always either shear pinion
teeth or blow a u-joint on the rear.....both cases rare without V8
power.
>Transfer cases and transmissions. How strong is the stock tcase on these
>trucks?
Very strong. Will handle V8s and large tires used somewhat sanely.
> also, how strong is the 5 speed trans.
Late models ('85 on) are well made. People use them behind large
American V6s successfully.....you just can't abuse them lots with
such an engine.
>On the stock Land Cruiser
>tcases, Marlin can work his magic on the inside, so you can keep the
>stock box and double your low-range ratio. Can you do this with the mini
>tcase? I hear talk on the minis about double tcases. Is this because
>he can't modify the innards on the mini cases?
You can add one or more low gear set behind the stock one and/or
swap in a 4.7:1 gear set in any of these gear cases to go as low
as you want.
>Anyone have any ideas on the stock tcase and transmission ratios?
'85s:
TC 2.28:1
'81 thru '87 five speeds
1st 3.93 or 3.95
2nd 2.14 or 2.33
3rd 1.45 or 1.38
4th 1.00
5th 0.85
Also, what are stock axle ratios on the manual-transmission-equipped truck?
'85 all came 4.11:1
>Suspension: Obviously, rock crawling requires good suspension articulation.
>Any comments about the best system out there? I know OME is supposed to
>be the cats meow for Cruisers, do they make one for older 4runners? How
>big a lift? Enough for 33 or 35's? (probably not)
>If not OME, who else is good?
OME for live axle trucks and 4Runners is 2.5" lift. We could talk days
on suspension systems....a lot depends on how handy you are and how
much work you want to do. I've yet to find an out-of-the box system
that was the best. That's why I modify aftermarket spring packs or
make my own out of a variety of leaves.
>For extreme 'wheelin, what is the list opinion about carb vs FI?
EFI is the way to go......except......if it dies on the boonies, you
can't go anywhere without that high pressure fuel pump and
spark system. Fortunately, the Toy system is very reliable
and worry-free (I'd say).
>I've been on some runs where the carbureted mini trucks seemed to flood
>out on steep hills. Cruisers will run up a 60-degree slope without a
>hiccup. Can the mini carbs do this, or do they need to be modified?
Float bowl adjustments can help.
>I would
>imagine that the Fuel Injection models would be OK on this count, but
>then you start increasing complexity. I don't really know much about the
>reliability of the Toyota FI systems/sensors/computers, etc.
>Any comments?
See above.
>Finally, how about 4-cylinder engine power (torque)? I know that with
>large tires, it's gonna be a dog on the road, but I'm more concerned with
>offroad torque. On the 2F Cruiser motors, the torque curve is very low in
>the power band, i.e., it is very torquey at low rpms. Is this true with
>the 22R motors? Can you upgrade/change cams, etc, to increase torque,
>without getting into major engine reconfiguration?
There are lots of mods available. The 22R motors have good torque and
combined with Marlin gears will rock-crawl excellently.
>Sorry for the large number of questions, but any response is welcome.
>Thanks for your input.
Hope this helps get you started......there's lots more too........
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
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Date: Mon, 4 Aug 1997 13:37:46 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: I need advice
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On 4 Aug 1997, Jay Kopycinski wrote:
>
> >For extreme 'wheelin, what is the list opinion about carb vs FI?
>
> EFI is the way to go......except......if it dies on the boonies, you
> can't go anywhere without that high pressure fuel pump and
> spark system. Fortunately, the Toy system is very reliable
> and worry-free (I'd say).
>
> >I would
> >imagine that the Fuel Injection models would be OK on this count, but
> >then you start increasing complexity. I don't really know much about =
> the
> >reliability of the Toyota FI systems/sensors/computers, etc. Any =
> comments?
>
> See above.
I had the EFI fail on me once about 3 years ago (1985 22RE). After 3 days
4x4 in the sand at Assateague, MD, I took my truck to a car wash before
making the 3 hour trip home. I sprayed everywhere to remove the sand and
the salt. About 100 yards out from the car wash, the truck died. It first
looked like it blew a fuse, which I replaced. About 30 miles later, and my
last replacement fuse gone, I had the truck towed to a toyota dealership.
After 3 days there, and spending time at a hotel, they found the problem.
There is a valve that is operated by the EFI to warm the system up (from
my bad memory). It shorted out and was the reason for the blowing fuses.
Since this lame toyota dealership didn't have the replace part, they just
disconnected it and I drove home (after paying them $240+ for finding the
problem, plus 3 days at a motel). I bought the part at Brown's toyota for
around $100 (they had it in stock, unlike the other dealership) and
installed it myself in about 20 minutes.
I think I will bring my toyota manual next 4x4 trip. I could have
diagnosed that problem and disconnected the troublesome part myself (with
a good voltmeter). And I am a little more careful where I spray in those
car washes too.
Dr. Karl Bellve
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-3785
Fax : (508) 856-1840
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Date: 04 Aug 1997 15:01:15 -0700
From: Robert Elsemore
Subject: I need advice
To: toy4x4@tlca.org (Return requested), ad366@lafn.org (Return requested)
Dana wrote:
>(1984 or 85 model) 4Runner to make into a serious trail machine, but still
The 84-85 4Runners are great on the trail, but I don't think they would
would be the best choice for a "beater". If damaged, you cannot replace
just the bed or just the cab. It's all one piece. Difficult to bob the
tail end too. What about a SWB pickup w/ a shell and carpet kit? They're
MUCH less expensive.
>this occur with regularity on the minis? How about snapping axle shafts,
>front or rear? I am considering running either 33 or 35" tires with
Yeah, birfields break on mini's too. Not a common as TLC's though.
Not as much torque/power. Rear axles seem to be bulletproof.
You can fit 33" tires into the fenders of the 84-88 and probably 35"
tires into the 79-83 fenders.
>How strong is the stock t-case on these
strong
>how strong is the 5 speed trans.
The fuel injected 5 speeds are the toughest trannies (85-88?) They hold
up to the 4 cylinder engines just fine.
>t-case? I hear talk on the minis about double tcases. Is this because
>he can't modify the innards on the mini cases?
You can get replacement gear sets or stack t-cases or both. JP Eater is
another option too.
>Also, what are stock axle ratios on the manual-transmission-equipped truck?
4.10 for most
>Any comments about the best system out there? I know OME is supposed to
>be the cats meow for Cruisers, do they make one for older 4runners? How
I hear that OME is available for US trucks now. Just a rumor?
Also the Mazda 2WD leafs in the rear can add extra droop, but
require new (rear) front mounts and custom spring pack building.
3-4 inches of lift is common/adequate.
>For extreme 'wheelin, what is the list opinion about carb vs FI?
I have EFI and it always works flawlessly. Yes, I see the flooding
carbs too. EFI available as an option on late 84's and all 85's.
>Finally, how about 4-cylinder engine power (torque)? I know that with
The EFI may give you a slight edge for torque/power, especially at high
elevations. With dual t-cases you will have enough torque. I think the
engine mods will be appreciated more on the street than on the trail.
The low gears (and lockers) will help most on the trail.
Diffs: 33" tires = 4.88:1
35" tires = 5.29:1
>Sorry for the large number of questions, but any response is welcome.
>Thanks for your input.
Get good nerf bars and bumpers BEFORE the damage occurs.
Wear sunscreen.
- -Rob Elsemore, 85 4Runner,
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:14:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Wbsims@aol.com
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #378
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have a 1981 4x4 longbed, 22r (200,000+ mi.), 4speed, open diffs, 33"
Buckshot mudders with no lift. I have a couple of questions.
1st, on cold starts it is slow to start up especially if it is sitting
in the hot sun, What gives? Also it uses a lot of oil, 2 qts. a week if
driven daily. I know it is leaking but it may be burning some, though
the plugs are not fouled nor does it smoke. What direction should I go.
It seems pretty weak though the big tires don't help much in the power
dept.
I am considering an engine rebuild and need some advice as this is my
first toy. I really love this truck and plan on keeping it for a long
time. Also, the tires fit and look good as it is but do rub a little
when turned sharply, will a lift correct this or should I just live
with it. Any advice would be appreciated.
Bart
wbsims@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 16:27:51 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: 1981 longbed...
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Its probably horribly weak. in 1981 toyota put 3.90 gears in most of their
4x4s. I presume this was to try to get the gas mileage up a little higher
(meanwhile, the germans were stuffing diesel engines into Wabbits for the
same purpose...anyone know any other gas-crunch atrocities? :)
Most other years the highest (numerically lowest) gears used were 4.10s in
4x4 models.
Most people with 33s run something more like 4.88. If you haven't regeared
and are looking for power, I'd definitely start with the gears, or go back
to much shorter tires. If you put new gears in, its a great time to add a
traction-aiding differential too.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
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Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 21:54:25 -0700
From: Nick Krest
Subject: I have a couple of questions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
1. Oil: You'd be surprised how much oil 22Rs can leak. Things to replace:
Valve cover gasket, half-moon plugs (under valve cover gasket), valve cover
bolts gaskets. If it still leaks, then replace the oil pan gasket, and the
front crank seal gasket.
2. Motor weak: I recommend an Eaton supercharger, or a twin-turbo BEGI unit
with intercooler, hi-lift cam, dual-side draft Mikuni 44's, and a custom 4"
exhaust. No, really, you're over-tired. You need to change the final-drive
ratio (differential gears) to 4.56 or 4.88 to get back the power you lost
with the big tires. Try putting a "test" set of 28" diameter tires on the
truck and see if that doesn't perk up the performance. Hold off on the
rebuild if you can; you might not need it.
3. Tire rubbing: It's a fact of life that 33" tires will rub on a
non-lifted truck. Your choices are: a) lift the truck; b) get smaller
tires; c) live with it. Only you can decide what you're gonna do.
Good luck,
- Nick
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Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 08:00:21 -0700
From: Barney McNamara
Subject: 1981 questions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, wbsims@aol.com
Until '85 the trucks had carburetors - what do you expect it to do before
the thing stabilizes at temperature? Especially if the engine has not had
major work, valves, rings, carb overhaul, vacuum hose replacement,
diaphragms, and all the other goodies that wear out in 16 years and 200K.
>Also it uses a lot of oil, 2 qts. a week if driven
>daily. I know it is leaking but it may be burning some, though the plugs
>are not fouled nor does it smoke. What direction should I go.
If you love it - rebuild the engine or replace it with a rebuilt as I did.
If not, sell it.
>It seems pretty
>weak though the big tires don't help much in the power dept.
Yep, 20R's with stock gears and 33" tires don't have a lot of pep when
they are new, much less after 200K. You'll need to change gears in both
differentials, or go slow.
>I am considering an engine rebuild and need some advice as this is my
>first toy. I really love this truck and plan on keeping it for a long
>time.
Now your talking - doing it yourself vs throwing in a rebuilt is a matter
of finances, mechanical ability, and time. Do it yourself if you know
how and have the time. Buy a decent rebuilt ($1200 - $1500) and put it
in if you can, pay somebody to do it if you can afford it.
>Also, the tires fit and look good as it is but do rub a little when turned
>sharply, will a lift correct this or should I just live with it.
Yes, a lift can fix the clearance problem. If you can't afford it, what
else can you do but live with it?
PS - check out the threads on my web pages, these issues are all discussed
at length, and don't let my attitude sway you, I need more coffee :-)
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 1997 20:20:34 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: New Toyota questions
To: Toy4x4@off-road.com
Bert67@aol.com wrote:
>It almost seems at startup
>there is a slight oil starvation as I can hear upper end rattle for a
>split second. Is this a Toyota thing? The noise I hear is a slight
>tick at operating temp, off idle up to about 1900 rpm, yet I hear no
>pinging or the like under load.
Yes, this is a "Toyota thing." There will always be a slight rattle upon
startup on R series engines as the timing chain tensioner is
hydraulically activated by engine oil. The use of an OEM Toyota oil
filter, or an aftermarket brand with the ever-famous anti-drainback
valve will alleviate the condition.
The other noise you hear is probably the fuel injectors actuating. They
are mechanical devices that open and close a lot (technical engineering
terminology).
>
>My second question has to do with perferred brands of tune-up parts for
>these 4cyl toyota engines. Is castrol the way to go or is there another
>oil on the market that anyone has had better luck with. What about
>synthetics such as Mobile 1? I have always run Mobile 1 in my other
>foriegn cars (Porsche 951) with quite a benefit will the same apply to
>Toyota? Also my choice of spark plugs seems to have raised to operating
>temp about 10 degrees. Am I using the right heat range plug for this
>motor?( Bosch Platinum # 4218 gapped at .031).
Use of good quality fuels and lubricants is very important to the
operating life of an engine. Any oil from a preferred manufacturer will
do. I use either Valvoline or Mobil in my personal vehicles. Mobil sells
a heavy-duty oil labeled Delvac, used specifically for diesel engines
that I use in my full-size truck.
I also prefer NGK or Nippondenso spark plugs. Others have had good luck
with the Bosch Platinums, however. I would look for another cause of the
engine oper. temp rising. How did you measure the temperature, by the
water temp gauge? Not an accurate way to judge engine temp. For a
concern like this, a non-contact pyrometer aimed at the exhuast manifold
is about the best instrument (the A/C techs. on the list probably know
about these) to measure combustion temperature differences.
I do not condone the use of Liquid Nails as an engine lubricant either.
Jim Brink--Toyota/ASE Certified Technician
Manhattan Beach, CA
(brinkjm@earthlink.net) '86 Std.Bed/32"BFG A/T
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TLCA# 6184/ South Bay Roughwheelers / Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR)
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