Typical Truck Upgrades
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 16:49:57 -0700
From: Randy Ring
Subject: 86 Questions
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Scott writes...
1) On the steeper hills the truck seems to power out near the top. I
have plenty of power at the bottom of the hill but the engine just
doesn't seem to have the guts to push it over the top. It feels like it
needs lower gears although I've always found Toys to be geared fairly
low in L4. Does this sound like a carb problem?
If it's just running out of poop, and all other things operating OK,
headers will really help in that situation (low end torque).
2) In similar steep hills where there is soft dirt the truck really
loses traction and just spins the tires. It feels like the truck is just
too light to dig in and grab the more compact soil below. Is this just
the difference in weight because of the light rear end?
The back-end is light. To compensate for that I run "fat" tires
(Yokahoma Mud Diggers - check their specs) and air down to 9 or 10
pounds. They have excellent traction and floatation. I'm running my 3rd
set right now.
3) It's hard to keep all four wheels on the ground (as I know IFS will
do). Is there a quick fix to help this without doing an expensive lift
right away ? Will tightening the torsion bars add play or just lift the
front end. Will the Downy low profile bump stops help with a stock IFS?
This is normal for stock IFS. Tightening the torsion bars will raise the
vehicle, but will reduce the "drop" of the lower A-arms. Yes, the lower
bump stops will help a little. I believe 14.5", measured from the
bottom edge of the fender to the top edge of the wheel rim, is the max
height that you should raise with the torsion bars. For the rear-end I
installed the Downey 2" leafs. They worked great and gave me 2 inches
of lift without sacrificing articulation - and they never sagged.
The only other thing, if you haven't already done so, is to add lockers
front and rear (about $600, not including any gaskets, oil, etc, for two
Detroit EZ Lockers or Lockrights if you put them in yourself) In my
opinion, a Detroit Locker in the rear is a better choice, but the cost
is about 2X more. This will make an 86 with IFS act like a different
vehicle.
I had an 86 IFS, Long Bed, Automatic, Detroit Locker rear, TRD Posi
front, 22RE, RS5000s, Kicker Shocks, 31x11.5 Mud Diggers, from new to
177K miles. It went on most of the toughest trails in CA , AZ, Mexico,
and did remarkably well.
Another thing... I learned to drive just a little heavier on the
throttle in order to compensate for lack of traction (3,000 lbs.) and
"not quite enough poop at the top of a steep hills", but I almost always
made it. In 177,000 miles, that vehicle NEVER broke down on the trail!
Broke down meaning, unable to drive it. In fact, I was hit head-on on
Big Bear mountain by another Toyota truck. I drove it off the mountain
to San Diego, California (about 3 hours). Believe it or not - the
radiator fan was NOT turning. My insurance company "TOTALED" the truck.
I would give up a lot to have that truck back!! I now own an 85 Std.
cab, 5 sp, 22R
That's my experience, hope it helps.
Randy "Gnarls" Ring
Randy_Ring@environ.com
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Date: 13 May 1997 16:10:40 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: '86 questions
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:45 PM
OFFICE MEMO '86 questions Date: 5/13/97
Scott wrote:
>1) On the steeper hills the truck seems to power out near the top. I have
>plenty of power at the bottom of the hill but the engine just doesn't seem
>to have the guts to push it over the top. It feels like it needs lower gears
>although I've always found Toys to be geared fairly low in L4. Does this
>sound like a carb problem?
Could be. Next time you go up watch for black smoke out the exhaust
for possible signs of carb flooding. I'm not exactly familiar with the
how steep the '86 carbs like to go before they start splashing gas.
Jack?
>2) In similar steep hills where there is soft dirt the truck really loses
>traction and just spins the tires. It feels like the truck is just too light
>to dig in and grab the more compact soil below. Is this just the difference
>in weight because of the light rear end?
The trucks have a completely different weight distribution than an
FJ40 or similar bobtail vehicle. This can sometimes be a hindrance.
Adding some weight to the bed will help as will learning slightly
different driving techniques (as compared to the FJ40).
>3) It's hard to keep all four wheels on the ground (as I know IFS will do).
You got.....in the twisties, the IFS will lift a tire quickly......but so will
a stiffly sprung live axle truck.
>Is there a quick fix to help this without doing an expensive lift right away?
More effective wheel travel will keep the tires on the ground longer.
You could try running lower air pressure or adding weight to the bed
to force the rear axle to articulate more.
>Will tightening the torsion bars add play or just lift the front end?
Don't know what you mean by "add play". Increasing the preload
on the torsion bars will basically raise the front ride height and
increase the effective spring rate slightly.
>Will the Downy low profile bump stops help with a stock IFS?
They will allow for more travel.
>I was really hoping to go to Moab over Memorial Day and I'd really
>appreciate any info anybody can give me.
How stiff are your rear springs? Are you able to compress them to
the bump stops? I'd suggest you get the truck twisted up and see
what areas may be limiting your travel. Can you get full rear spring
droop before the shocks run out of travel?
Just some thoughts.........
________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY) '91 4Runner
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
________________________________________
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Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 17:58:07 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: 85 4-runner
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Larry Bird wrote (after he retired from the Celtics):
"I have just bought an 85 4-runner....The
first thing I am going to do is trash the
current lift and get something that works.
I don't want to go too high, but want the
best articulation I can get. I have looked
at the NWOR lift, the Downey lift, or would
I be better off to wait and purchase a
special lift from a custom spring builder?
Should I upgrade to greaseable shackles?
Use poly bushings or rubber bushings. I
have been told to take off the short track
bar on the drivers side. Will that be safe
to do and still drive on the road?...It came
with 33" BFG's, but stock gearing, (it is a
real DOG) So, I need to regear it and I am
looking for some 4.88 or 5.29 gears. Does
anyone know where I can get a good deal on
gears, even some used ones?"
What I would do:
1. Trash the current lift.
2. Downey makes good springs, but they do sack out kind of quickly. If you
decide to call Downey (310.949.9494), talk to Kenny Ishimaru. Call Kevin
Grove at Rocky Mountain Off-Road @ 1.800.524.6005. Say, "Kevin, Nick Krest
said you would set me up." Get some 3" or 4" lift springs front and rear.
Kevin will set you up with cool shackles, torque rods, shocks, bumpers, the
whole nine. They are very reasonable, the mods they do WORK and work
extremely well, and their service is impeccable.
3. Greasable shackles: nice but not necessary. Stuff called Formula 5
prelube or Energy Suspension Bushing Lube (same identical stuff) works well
with urethane - better than grease. Lube 'em before assembly and they're
lubed for years.
4. Go poly bushings. Cheaper than rubber and more durable.
5. Do NOT remove the torque rod on the front axle. That's a bad idea.
6. If you plan to run 33's, get 4.88 gears. If you go 35's, then a 5.29 set
is in order. Most places will sell you a ring and pinion for about $150, a
full rebuild kit (everything new) is about $100, labor to install (loose
out of truck) is $50-100 per end, so while you're at it, why not install a
Detroit Locker or ARB Air Locker in the rear, and a TrueTrac or another ARB
in the front? You WILL be amazed at the difference locked diffs make,
especially if you're considering stuff on a scale with the Rubicon. I have
found that 4Wheel Parts (www.4wheelparts.com) will set you up at both ends
for $1049, labor $150 extra.
7. New u-joints, or a Marlin Crawler (I have now decided to that I must
have one) with new driveshafts would be next.
After doing all this, it's the real version of that Microsoft ad: "Where do
you want to go today?" 'Cause you'll be able to go wherever you really want
to.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 May 97 11:46 PDT
From: Robert.Elsemore@ncal.kaiperm.org
Subject: 85 4-runner
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Great advice, Nick! I gotta agree 100%. My 85 4runner is set up
with most of the equipment you mentioned (except gears) and works
pretty good. I wish I had a Crawler too!
One thing about tire size. The first gen 4Runner fender clearance isn't
great. I would limit tire size to 33" to minimize rubbing. You could
run 35's, but you would have to lower your bump stops; then you would
lose those precious inches of travel that everyone else is trying to gain.
- -Rob Elsemore
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 20:13:31 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Web sites
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-06-02 19:42:48 EDT, you write:
<< I have a '92 Toyota 4x4, V6, standard cab.
Everything is still pretty much stock on it but I finally have some $$$
to start making some modifications to it.
Does anyone know of any good web sites that relate to parts and what type
of modifications can be made for this year Toyota?
Thanks for any info. >>
No web sites from me, just a little advice. After doing a lot to my 90 Toy,
I have decided what should be done first, as I see it. These mods are for a
person who uses their truck on the trail, and not just for street. Some of
these mods will also help on the street, and some will kinda hurt pavement
performance.
-locker : Best thing I ever did to help off road. No matter which one you
choose (ARB, lockrite, limited slip, etc.) they will greatly help off road
performance.
-gears : this is a help for larger tires both on and off the road.
-tires : I cannot say enough for the right set of tires for the terrain you
cover. In deep, gooey mud, locked front and rear is not much help with
AT's.
-lift : many people want to do this first, but there are many things that go
along with lifts that make it work and drive up the price.
-winch : not always necessary, but worth millions if you are stuck.
from here on, the mods are up to you. I consider these things to be the best
choices for getting started. here is what I did, in this order:
-gears & ARB rear locker - August 1995
-4" lift - Sept. 1995
-33" mud tires - Oct. 1995
-winch - June 1996
These things were spread out, due to money constraints. the gears sat in my
room for 5 months till I could afford the ARB. I drove the truck for a full
month with 4.88's and 30" tires till I could put on the lift. I drove it
another month with those 30" donuts till I got the 33's.
Moral of the story is, take your time and think about what you are doing to
the truck, and what you will be doing in the future. This will save you a
lot of headaches in the future.
I hope this helps, and sorry for the long post.
David
DRM033@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 11:39:09 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: a couple of questions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Tim Stucky wrote:
"...I have an '84 4x4 Pickup (SR5) 22R engine with
31" wrangler AT's on it. The engine won't rev over
about 3800 rpm...I've been told that I just need to
gear it down but I'm really not sure. I've also been
told that the whole problem is due to the 31's on it.
Is this true?? If I were to gear down to 4.88 gears
does anyone have an estimate on the cost?"
Looking at the posts following this (up to 6/16), I determined that it's
not motor-related, that the motor runs fine in neutral. It's just that it
won't pull the gear.
Okay, Tim, you've got a 3000+ lb. pickup, with the aerodynamics of a brick
with a drag chute attached to it (more drag and weight when you put your
Honda in the back, along with your ramp, gear bags, gas cans, etc), with a
13-year old, normally-aspirated motor that is lucky to put out 65 bhp at
the rear wheels. You've put on 15% taller than stock tires, with an
increased rolling/unsprung weight, and you want to know why your truck
won't go 100 mph anymore.
Gears, plain and simple. Gears give you the mechanical advantage to keep
your motor in the prime of its torque curve (which is about 2600 to 3300
rpm). When you put on the 31's, you took away much of the gear's mechanical
advantage, in addition to adding unsprung/rolling weight, a tire with a
high rolling resistance (coefficient of friction, aka more traction).
A quick check to see if this is the problem would be to put the stock tires
back on. If you don't have them anymore, any tire approximately 28" tall
should suffice.
If it's the tires, then you have 3 options, IMHO:
1) Put some 28" tires on;
2) re-gear it (4.56's are more appropriate for 31's, IMHO);
3) try a bunch of so-called "horsepower" goodies.
I'm assuming you like the 31's on, so that's no go for option #1.
Bolting on a bunch of "horsepower" goodies can get very expensive very
quickly, and IMHO, isn't really addressing the problem at hand (it's also
very difficult to keep the motor tractable and smog-legal). It's just
addressing perceived symptoms. What you really want to do is re-gear. When
you re-gear, you regain the mechanical advantage that no amount of
horsepower can give back.
Final drive ratios available for Toys are: 3.90 (39 tooth ring gear/10
tooth pinion gear), 4.10 (41/10), 4.36 (35/8), 4.56 (41/9), 4.88 (39/8),
5.29 (37/7), and 5.71 (40/7). There are a few things to keep in mind when
choosing a new final-drive ratio.
The first is gear strength. The lower gear you go (higher numerically), the
weaker the gear is. Most people assume that the teeth get smaller. Nope,
it's just the mechanical ratio of the ring gear to the pinion gear that
changes.
Second is where you want your cruising speed to be, rpm vs. mph. I'm
running 4.88's on my truck, with a 32.5" tall (true diameter) tire. This
gives me about 3100 rpm at 65 mph. This is ideal for my uses, which are
pulling a 1000 lb. m/c trailer, 65 gallons of gas, huge amounts of spares
and gear, with a stock 22R motor. This is within 2% of the stock ratio
(4.10 gears/28" tire).
Third, if this applies to you, is your crawl ratio. The problem with this
part of the argument is, Toyota's transfer case isn't really low enough to
get you going slow enough in 2low. That's where Marlin Crawlers and
JPEaters come in.
Most gearsets run between $140-180 per axle. Check around to get a good
price. At the very least, you'll need a minor rebuild kit for each axle
($40 each), or maybe you'll want to get a new everything rebuild kit
($90-120 each). Labor is going to run you - well, how much work are you
willing to do?
If you bring the 3rd members in loose, most shops will charge you $50-100
each to set them up. The rear is EASY to do - 1 hour out, 1 hour back in.
The front, no so much so. You have to pull the hubs, brakes, pop out the
Birfields, and more. If you haven't done it before, it could conceivably
take more than 5 or 6 hours to get the front out, and at least a couple of
hours to get it back in. In addition, it's the greasiest, messiest job to
do on your Toy, plus you'll have to buy new seals, gaskets, grease, tools,
and stuff, so I would really recommend having it done, unless you really
want to know what's going on in your front axle. Otherwise, I would
estimate the labor to run about $250-300.
Of course, if your truck NEVER sees 4wd, you only have to do the rear.
So there you go. Re-gearing both axles will cost you from $450 up to maybe
$1000, depending upon how good a deal you can find and how much work you
are willing to do. It's really the only economical way to address your
problem, I think, without buying a new truck, or doing a motor swap.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 22:10:10 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: FW: more horsepower for 88 4Runner
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Lang, David V. wrote:
>
> 2nd time around with this question.
>
> Any answers?????
>
> Thanks in advance...
>
> >
> > I've got an 88 4Runner that has a 22RE with 123,000 miles on it. I
> > expect to get more out of it, but want to make some upgrades. I read
> > an article in the May 1997 Field & Stream about getting more
> > horsepower for your older 4x4.
> > They talked about a company (Jones Electronic Technologies) that
> > offered a package deal to get a new performance chip(reprograms
> > on-board computer to better optimize the engine for performance),
> > smaller underdrive belt pulleys (to reduce parasitic power draw on the
> > engine), a stainless steel thermostat ( to help engine run cooler),
> > and an upgraded Air filter to increase airflow. They also mentioned
> > getting a performance exhaust system (Dynomax Performance Exhaust)
> >
> > Has anyone ever heard of this, or been involved in the type of
> > upgrade?
> >
> > Being in Arizona, to get to the mountains you have climb a few hills,
> > and I notice that sometimes my truck dogs it on the way up..
You did not mention anything about tire size/gear ratio so I will assume
these are original. A gear change, while not influential on horsepower
at the flywheel, will aid drivability.
A low-restiction exhaust system (including an exhaust header) would be
beneficial (check legality in your area).
Improvements in the intake manifold and fuel system (balanced injectors)
would help as well. A camshaft change will also work wonders.
Do not mess with the thermostat. EFI systems are designed to operate
under strict parameters depending largely on coolant temperature. You
will not feel a dramatic increase in power by lowering the coolant
temperature. You MAY: consume more fuel and increase emissions.
In my opinion and experience, ECU modifications do not influence the
average vehicle. This comes from both track testing and dynamometer test
results. For street vehicles, not enough changes can be made in the
ECU's strategy without negatively effecting fuel economy, emissions, and
drivability.
Make sure the vehicle is in a good state of tune. Component condition
(wires, cap/rotor, plugs) and ignition systems should be set to spec.
Mechanical condition of the engine (compression and leakdown, as well as
vacuum) should be checked if in doubt.
As with any other modification, your one limiting factor is your wallet.
Perform the basic operations first. If you are still not satisfied,
consider rebuilding the engine with performance in mind. Or, go with a
GM 4.3 Vortec swap. Many people have done this swap and conversion kits
are readily available.
Good Luck!
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R/M5
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 32"BFG All-Terrains
(brinkjm@earthlink.net) LockRight/4.10 Gears
***********************************************************************
TLCA# 6184 / Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR) / MRVMA-DESERT EXPLORERS
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 08 Oct 1997 17:37:24 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Problems
To: nick
nick wrote:
> Hello, my name is Nick Shaffmaster. I live in Waverly, Pennsylvania( it
> is in the upper northeast corner), and I am having a hell of a time
> modifying my 1991 Toyota 4Runner. I am sure you get a lot of this kind of
> mail so I am sorry if I waste your time, but here's my spiel.
> I have loved the woods since I was little, not just the idea of
> the woods, being in the woods, and being there for days if possible. Well
> this led to my intrest in Boy Scouts and later to my Eagle Scout award,
> but there was something missing. I realized that I have always been
> enthralled by those friends of mine with the large ford or chevy trucks
> who always came to school caked in mud. I figured, "I might only have a
> toyota 4runner but I can probably handle it, but I was ridiculed for
> thinking my car could handle it and was subsequently never found out
> where those guys had been. I didn't feel so bad when those trucks were
> ruined after a year of abuse, but now after three years of only moderate
> off road expierence I feel the need for something more. Only, there seems
> to be nothing there....I know of no trails, I have no close friends who
> are interested in this sort of activity, and I can not seem to find one
> after factory part for my car that doesn't cost half my savings to buy
> and the other half to ship. I am at the end of the road and would
> appreicate any help that you, or anyone you know could offer. Just to let
> you know where I stand with the quality of my vehicle it is all stock
> except for two new downey 1.5" lift springs in the rear, 4 ARE chrome
> wheels sporting 4 BF Goodrich radial mud terrain tires( which I found at
> a local garage sale for 200 bucks), I also have a slightly rebuilt engine
> because of the fact I blew a head gasket once. All work on this vehicle
> has been done by proffesinals, and at this point they will no longer help
> me with my ideas for my 4runner. I just do not know what to do. I am sure
> that if I lived in California and drove a '72 land cruiser I would have
> no problems, but I am just some kid from NE Pa. with ideas and no
> knowledge to carry them out. Again, if you know of anyone or anywhere I
> can find products and or information of trails it would be greatly
> appreicated. I am truly sorry if I wasted your time Mr. Johnson. Have a
> nice day.
Well, there's a few things you can do. Joining a 4x4 club would help you
find people to wheel with and places to go. Join the toy4x4 mail list
(email toy4x4-request@tlca.org) or the offroad mail list
(offroad-request@off-road.com) and tell people your problems there.
Chances are, there's someone there who'd love to show you around.
Don't think for a second your rig is any less capable than the others
(though a v8 does help in thick mud....). If your ford and chevy guys
say you won't make it, tell 'em "Gee, afraid my Toyota will make you
guys look bad?" That usually gets 'em.
You could drop in a lock-right rear locker for about $300 for the part
and maybe $150 for installation, and you'll more places than any stock
ford or chevy. If you're not up to spending that kind of money, at least
drop your sway bar and air down your tires and you won't believe the
improvement in traction.
Get the Downey, NWOR, and Performance Products catalogs. Toyota
aftermarket parts are generally more expensive though. But 90% of it is
driver. If i were you, I'd go out and show those full-size truck guys
just what your toyota can do. That will shut 'em up :)
I usually wheel with a bunch of guys with late-model toyotas, and its
funny when the jeepers and whatnot say at the trailhead "Gee, you're not
gonna take THOSE rigs on this trail are ya?"... as often as not, we wind
up pulling some of them out from being stuck somewhere.
I cc:'ed this email to the toyota 4x4 mail list. Can anyone there help
Nick out?
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Oct 1997 22:29:35 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: TO James Brink
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Chris Austin wrote:
>
> I noticed you have a 22R and was woundering what engine mods you have
> done and what made the biggest increase in HP?
> Also what coompanys sale 4:88's?
Chris,
I have the early Downey 20/20R mid range camshaft, stock 22R block,
stock cylinder head with mild port work, and the Aisin carburetor with
some secret modifications--all legal of course. I also have an
experimental distributor curve calibration (NOT NWOR's) that was
supposedly going into production but the later switch to all EFI put the
kabosh on that. Everything else is stock. I plan a custom exhaust within
a few months. A co-worker builds his own headers so he is going to run
off a few samples for me.
As far as the biggest HP gain? Not sure. The higher-ups at work kinda
frown when we run personal vehicles on the dynamometer...I would have to
say the camshaft greatly improved the overall driveability of the truck
in most conditions. As for the other improvements, I don't expect to see
any gains until I open up the exhaust some--The real cork in the "R"
series engines.
As for gearing, I have Precision Gears that I bought through Downey. I
just have'nt installed them yet.
Just about any gear shop sells the 4.88s. I did hear through Jim
Sickles, owner of Downey, that the folks over at 4WPW have played some
games with their gearing, using some sub-standard parts and packaging
them as a leading brand's pieces. Industry insider info or...? I don't
know. Your best bet is a gearing specialty shop or at least a vendor
that deals in high-quality gears and accessories.
- --
Jim Brink--Toyota/ASE Certified Technician '86 Std. Bed 22R
Manhattan Beach, CA 32x11.50/15 BFG M/Ts
(brinkjm@earthlink.net)
************************************************************************
TLCA# 6184/ South Bay Roughwheelers / Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR)
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