The Ultimate Toy
----------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 30 Jul 1997 08:52:55 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:52 AM
OFFICE MEMO ** The Ultimate Toy ** Date: 7/30/97
This oughta burn up some bandwidth....... ;-)
What if you could build almost any drivetrain you wanted
for your Toyota truck or 4Runner.....what would it be?
I'd like to see what people would run in their trucks
if they had lots of money and could swap in almost
anything they wanted.
I would be working on a rock-crawler running 33s
or 35s, but your situation might require some other
basic configuration
LetM-Us say you get to spend $6-10k in parts. This would
effectively eliminate exotic items and keep it somewhat
reasonable.
How would you answer these questions?
Your basic use:
Tire size:
Engine (type, size, induction):
Tranny:
Transfer Case(s):
Adapters (if any):
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio):
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio):
Particular reasons for your choices?
Looking forward to seeing otherM-Us inputs and all the ideas
people may have given somewhat free reign of choices.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:28:32 -0700
From: "Todd and Terry"
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To:
>
> Your basic use: Rock, rock and more rock
>
> Tire size: 35-12.50-15 BFG MT's
>
> Engine (type, size, induction): Chevy 4.3, EFI
>
> Tranny: NV 4500
>
> Transfer Case(s): Double Marlin with 4.70 gears
>
> Adapters (if any):
>
> Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 44, ARB, 5.29
>
> Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 60, ARB, 5.29
>
> Particular reasons for your choices? Strength and crawl ration, tired of
bouncing and breaking.
Todd
His: 87 Toyota 4X4, EZ Lockers F/R, 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's, 15X8 AR 26's,
Trailmaster/Superlift 4"lift, Ramsey front bumper, Custom Nerfs, Custom
rear bumper,
Custom body by Sierra Nevada.
Hers: 93 Jeep Grand Cherokee, 4.0 six, 4 spd auto, 30-9.5-15 Bridgestone
Dueler AT's.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 09:57:42 +0200
From: Jack Alford
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To:
Preface: It's *MY* dream and it can cost as much as I want too :-) All
the work would be done by myself so I'd have essentially no cost other
than parts, not much Toyota about my Toy though ....
Your basic use: Rockcrawler, mud bogger, all around super-4x4-toy !
Frame and Body: 1990 style Xcab body & bed on 1985 frame with frame
shortened to 105" and bed bobbed to fit the frame. Front frame rails
are lengthened 4" and the crossmember also moved forward the same
amount to accomodate the power plant and to move the front axle forward
a bit to keep the 35's out of the fenders and to allow the use of
longer front springs and the use of a 4 bolt Saginaw power steering box,
done so in this manner as to not hurt the approach angle by just
lengthening the frame rails.
Tire size: 35" BFG M/T's ...
Engine (type, size, induction): 5.7L Vortec V8
Tranny: World Class T-5 from newer Camaro's... 2.95:1 1st gear
Transfer Case(s): Dana 300 (2.6:1) w/extra external, bolt-on 4:1
reduction unit.
Adapters (if any): Transfer case to tranny
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dodge Dana 60, 4:10's, ARB, Narrowed
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Full-floating Dana 60, 4:10's, ARB,
Narrowed
Particular reasons for your choices?
Gear ratio of the tranny would make it excellent for low rpm
street driving and gas mileage (i.e. cross-country driving),
Yet the transfer case setup would give plenty of low range gear ratio
options (~80:1 crawl ratio). Streetability is the main drawback to
an NV4500 in my opinion as it's like having a 3-spd with a granny
gear and an overdrive.
As for the Dana 300, say what you will but a Dana 300 doesn't have an
aluminum housing ... Need at least 35" tires to raise the pumpkins of
the axle beef provided by the f&r D60's, no need to worry about shedding
a pinion if you don't have to. Not only would it be a super off-road
truck, it should perform pretty nicely at the dragstrip too, living
up to it's name:
** The Ultimate Toy **
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:16:04 -0400
From: john skaggs
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Frame and Body: 85 4Runner, Fiberglass front end (no worries about
getting that Caddy in) bobbed rear
Your basic use: All around from mud to rock to mountain trails
Tire size: 35"BFG M/T's
Engine (type, size, induction): 500 CUBE Caddy with EFI (Tim Taylor Grunts)
Tranny: Reworked Ford C-6
Transfer Case(s): NP205 with reduction gears
Adapters (if any): What ever it takes to get in my combo
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 60, ARB, 4:10, CTIS
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 60, ARB, 4:10, CTIS
Particular reasons for your choices? Tough, Torquey, bobbed 4Runner
would look WAY COOL!
John Skaggs
TLCA# 5560
85 4Runner (gettin taller soon) still only halfway there
Akron, Ohio
John.Skaggs@ab.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 97 11:55:57 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>LetM-Us say you get to spend $6-10k in parts. This would
>effectively eliminate exotic items and keep it somewhat
>reasonable.
Gee.. this is right about what I need to start planning on doing anyhow...
The 4 runner is too darn stock right now... I think you forgot 2 fields
Base Truck Type: 1985 4Runner
Lift: 4" springs.. probably production fronts and Mazda/hybrid rears? $500
Shocks: RS9000's $180
Your basic use: 50% street, 30% towing, 15% off-road, 5% hauling junk
around for other projects :-P
Tire size: Dunlop Radial Rover RV's 33x12.5x15" (or 16) on some sort of
aluminum rims (for looks) Approx price $1000
Engine (type, size, induction): 22RE, stock bore & stroke, '84 pistons,
milled & ported & polished 20R head, oversize 22R valves, ported stock
intake, Custom grind cam, Tri-y header, 2.25" mandrel bent exhaust
High-flow injectors. plus all other basic rebuild stuff (gaskets,
rings, bearings, etc.) Cost $1800 reason: less $$$ than a swap.
Tranny: Stock Toy 5-speed, HD spec. built clutch.- heck it's cheaper
than the centerforce, and lasts longer $150
Transfer Case(s): Marlin 4.70 second transfer case (used behind stock case),
and driveshaft mods - $1800 Low gearing and a choice of ratios at your
disposal.
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock Solid axle, 4.88 gears, ARB air
locker
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock, 4.88, detroit locker or
arb...haven't decided yet (approx-$1500/pr) Gotta have Max traction,
and the 4.88's are perfectly suited for the highway driving.
Particular reasons for your choices? - (see above)
That should about get ME 98% of the places I need to go. (or should be
going) If I had a little bit more, I'd add to my list - custom Nerf
bars for body protection, nice bumpers F&R, and a 8K-9K lb winch.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:32:38 -0700
From: Locke Christman
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
John Skaggs wrote:
>
>Frame and Body: 85 4Runner, Fiberglass front end (no worries about getting
>that Caddy in) bobbed rear
>
>Your basic use: All around from mud to rock to mountain trails
>
>Tire size: 35"BFG M/T's
>
>Engine (type, size, induction): 500 CUBE Caddy with EFI (Tim Taylor Grunts)
>
>Tranny: Reworked Ford C-6
>
>Transfer Case(s): NP205 with reduction gears
John, Did you see the bobbed FJ55 in one of the 4 wheel magazines
recently? It was in either Peterson's or Four Wheeler in the last 2-3
months. I'll try to find it tonight. It had a 500 CI caddy and Ford 9"
diffs. Your Ultimate 4 Runner sounds very similar. By the way, why a
C6 instead of a TH 400 or TH 350? Just curious.
Locke
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 12:35:14 -0500
From: chris austin
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Todd and Terry wrote:
> Tranny: NV 4500
You said you have a NV4500 is that in a toyota and was it hard to put in
and was it wort it?
Chris Austin Jr.
86'4x4 Xtra cab
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 10:55:25 -0700
From: Locke Christman
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Starting point: '80 Toy SB because the early ones are still my favorite
body style. The only thing better would be to import an early crew cab
to use as a starting point (or better yet an FJ 45 or 55, but thats
another list........)
Your basic use: Looking for an all around, go anywhere rig that is also
a daily driver. Given that I live in Western Oregon I had better be
prepared for deep mud holes and wet sloppy snow. I also want the
suspension flex and TADs to tackle the rocks when I get the chance to
head south or east. Reasonable highway drivability required to get to
local wheelin' trails but would trailer for long trips.
Tire size: 35-36" Swamper TSL SX or Boggers. Either would be great for
just about any off-road terrain. Also a set of Swamper radials for
every day driving.
Engine (type, size, induction): Ford 302 V8, EFI. Not that I have
anything against Chevys but I like the compact size of the Ford and the
fact that the distributor is up front and not jammed against the fire
wall. Besides that it's a little unusual to go Ford instead of GM.
Tranny: My first choice would be the NV4500 for the low 1st gear and
overdrive 5th, however it may be too long in an '80 SB with dual 'cases.
A second strong possibility would be a Ford T-18 (also has low 1st but
not OD), which may be a better choice to maintain a workable overall
length for the tranny/transfer assembly.
Transfer Case(s): Dual cases with stock gears in front case and Marlin
gears in the rear case. Nothing like lots of sticks on the floor and
plenty of gear combination choices!
Adapters (if any): I'm not sure what is needed to adapt the 302 to the
NV4500, but I suppose a bell housing adapter and some kind of hybrid
clutch assembly. In the case of either the NV4500 or the T-18 a tranny
to Toy transfer adapter is needed.
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Toyota, upgraded to vented brake
rotors, ARB, 4.88 gears.
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Toyota, upgraded to disk brakes,
ARB, 4.88 gears.
Other stuff: The old '80 toy would also require the following upgrades:
PS, AC, complete gauges, new interior and paint, and finally an OME
suspension lift (I understand that they are now available for US Toys),
and a full cage.
Particular reasons for your choices? Not the biggest and the baddest
but appeals to me as being "cool". Also this would provide plenty of
capability for just about any off-road adventure that I would be likely
to tackle (and maybe more).
Locke
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 15:05:21 -0500
From: Brian Gallus
Subject: Ultimate Toyota
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Your basic use: Rock, rock and more rock
>
> Tire size: 35-12.50-15 BFG MT's
>
> Engine (type, size, induction): Chevy 4.3, EFI
>
> Tranny: NV 4500
>
> Transfer Case(s): Double Marlin with 4.70 gears
>
> Adapters (if any):
>
> Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 44, ARB, 5.29
>
> Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 60, ARB, 5.29
>
> Particular reasons for your choices? Strength and crawl ration,
tired of
bouncing and breaking.
Pretty much sums it up, doesn't it? I personally would change the
Marlin with dual 4.70's to a Marlin with 1 4.70 case - gives a better
range of ratio's in my opinion. Besides, there's really nothing in
MN that would require a 350+ crawl ratio... The only real change
that I'd make would be to use Ford 9" axles instead of the Dana's -
make the rear a full floater with Wilwood Disc's and make them both
3" wider than stock (same with as the IFS axles) - just like 'em
better. I'd also make mine a shortbox with an extra cab body and
shorty box.
Sorry Jay, just don't think that I could stay under the price you
set... I hate when money limits my dreams.
_______________________________________
Brian K. Gallus
Network Administrator
Dynamark, Inc.
BrianGallus@Dynamark.com
_______________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 10:36:25 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
My ultimate Toy would have to start using a Crew Cab body. Enough room
for 4 people and space in the bed for equipment.
Basic use: Rock crawling and driving to and from trail, weekend driver
around town.
Tire size: Would have to be 35's, probably BFG's or at least radials
for the better ride.
Engine: 4.3 Vortec V-6 (possibly Supercharged depending on its power
once installed). A V-8 would be nice but gas mileage for driving to and
from events would be worse.
Tranny: 700R4. I have never ran an automatic but would love to try it
on the trail. The ability to stop and start with no rollback would be
really nice. Also with the overdrive RPM would be lower for highway
driving.
Transfer Case(s): I would have to go with dual Toyota t-cases with the
rear case having 4.7:1 gears. This would give you two wheel drive low
when you do not need 4WD but would like to go slow.
Adapters: from the trans to the Toy t-case.
Front axle: Ford 9" with ARB, I do not know the gear ratio that would
be proper for the 4.3 and 35's, maybe 4.10's. With disc brakes.
Rear axle: Ford 9" with ARB, disc brakes.
I like the drop out style axles. That way you could carry a spare diff
just in case one ever broke.
Suspension: I would have to have coils in all corners with a setup like
the new TJ Teraflex.
Reasons: Sometimes I would like the NV4500 but, once again, the ability
to stop and start with out rolling would be real nice on some of the
more difficult obstacles. I mentioned before I like drop out diffs, I
do not know if ARB's make lockers for 9" yet. If not I would go with
Detroits. I would have to go with some type of Saginaw steering to get
rid of the Stock steering arm. Well, someday after I win a lottery.
Tony.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 16:50:46 -0700
From: Nick.Krest@nickkrest.batnet.com.140.174.136.24
Subject: The Ultimate Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jay Kopycinski wrote:
"What if you could build almost any drivetrain you wanted
for your Toyota truck or 4Runner.....what would it be?"
It would be based off an '85 4Runner.
Your basic use: California conditions (basic exploration, whether
mountains, desert, whatever)
Tire size: 33x12.50 - 15
Engine (type, size, induction): ~4.0l Aluminum-block & head DOHC V6 with
nearly square configuration, adjustable cams for flat-as-Kansas torque
curve to rumpity-rump open desert use, user-serviceable and
user-programmable fuel injection.
Tranny: 6-speed manual with granny low and .75 overdrive 6th ('Vette with
gear change?)
Transfer Case(s): FJ80 center locking diff, dual Marlins
Adapters (if any): Whatever it would need - motor to tranny, certainly, and
all the suspension work
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock '85, manual hubs, ARB, 4.88's,
custom coil-overs.
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Full-floating Ford 9", ARB, 4.88's,
discs, custom coil-overs on a 4-link.
Particular reasons for your choices? Versatility, (relative) ease of
maintenance, plus you said we could have anything we wanted! Otherwise, I'd
just say, "Gimme Ivan's Toy with 2 seats, please."
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 15:55:53 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Dream Yota
To: " - (052)toy4x4(a)tlca.org"
My parameters are - I gotta be able to drive it on a daily basis
although - If I built this thing - I dunno about parking it anywhere
and NOT looking a bit unusual. There is something to be said for
the inconspicious nature of a base 2WD Yota pickup.
Body - gen 1 4Runner
its big enuff to sleep in
its relatively small
mods:
the cab is retained as is the fiber glass back
the rear metal is cut out - for a FULL tube frame
the frame is ditched - full custom box frame
front nose extended to allow for Yota V8 later
also to relo the suspension A Arms
(See recent article on 4WD SODA racer in 4Wheeler?)
rear is cut apart so that the axle can be moved back
and to fit the huge Bilstein coil over + remotes
stock rear tail gate and glass is retained.
front clip is fiberglass hood and fenders - there
will be inner fender wells for winter street use
firewall and tranny tunnel will probably be modified
possibly removable as well. (remember - full tube
inner cage will be welded to whats left of the body shell)
rear will have steel inner - probably way modified
to accomdate stuff being moved around.
outer rear will use fiberglass fenders - way bulged
just like the desert racers
rear steel will be coated in rhino liner or like material -
I want a REAL hose out interior
I want minimal inner pannels - probably all steel
like the rear of an Amigo
All wiring will be redon with mil spec circular connectors
so sections can be undone and removed w/o passing
the firewall (I've wired sound studios - how bad can
a truck be?)
Engine: Until the Yota V8 :)
22RE - stroked - possible bore to 2.6L
sock compression ratio (9.1)
hyperuratic pistons
worked head - stock valve sizes
stock cam profile, ti springs and retainers
front dual chain conversion kit
dry sump - front belt driven pump
set up for Aerodyne turbo - tuned for TORQUE
redline at stock ~ 5500rpm
custom intake - probably single throttle body
(torque and street use - not high HP)
long runner plenum (torque)
EFI - laptop control - probably Ford's EEC-IV with EPEC controller
mass air flow sensor
custom 4to1 header (short runner - small tubes) to turbo
relocate cat to close to turbo (better light off)
BIG exhaust (3"+) to race muffler
exit mid bed - just behind driver's door at above frame level
use 410? ss tubing - ceramic coated and wrapped (to keep
the heat outta the drivers compartment)
snorkle intake on roof scoop (ala rally car)
(Havent figured out the air filter location yet)
DriveTrain:
6 spped tranny (NV 5600?) (aka 5 speed and granny low)
4 speed xfer (dual marlin 2.27 and 4.70)
center diff or MileMarker visco coupling
for now - stock Yota diffs - althogh using the 8"
dropouts front and rear are a thought.
I prefer Torsen type difs over full lockers.
Full tilt boogie - use Richmond quick change center
sections with Afco torsen type diffs
for now - widened stock axles with full float rear
Axles:
up front IFS - as mentioned 8" center swapped from rear
is a cool idea - Torsen in the pumpkin...
out back - yota center - I am considering the merits
of a de Dion axle config for the rear - coupled
with the Richmond quick change - hmmm - swap gear
ratios in seconds!!!
Suspension:
Im planning on a wider track overall - and a full tilt
custom setup so..
Front - off set A Arms like the SODA racer
Rear - solid or de Dion axle located via trailing arms
and a center A frame - (no panhard rod required)
Both ends - mondo coil over Bilsteins with position
sensitive as well as speed sensitive valving.
Multiple coil spring stacks for progressive control
Air bump stops for final cushining.
Becasue of this - probably have to run custom spindles
as well as A arms.
Where there are CVs - use Porsche 930s...
Sway bars front and rear - using a single torsion bar
like sprint cars and NASCAR uses - can mod the sway bar
easier. - ALSO allows for a THIRD coilover shock option
to handle full jump conditions.
Wheels/tyres
1/2" studs (stock car standard pattern and size)
probably 8" width rims
probably 15" wheels
planned "neg" backspace (target 5")
Im planning on running 31/33 on the street and 35+ in
"race" mode - I dunno if those are only in 17" rims tho.
Brakes:
Full NASCAR setup - Wildwood disks front and rear
clicker prop vale in cab w/ dual gagues for pressure
possible ABS (If I can get at on/off as well as
adjustments via computer in the "pit")
Other notes:
In daily drive mode - it will be "low" like the SODA guys
are - I want slot car street handling.
On the weekends - crank up the coil overs and viola -
mondo travel (15"+ front, 20"+ rear)
For rock crawling - the custom frame will allow for a FULL
belly pan - I hopefull can glide over stuff....
possible use of UHMW rally car "plastic" for the pan.
Use of a wider track and custom fenders and cutouts
mean I can really stuff a tyre in rear twist mode.
The rear axle is moved back - improved departure angle
for safety - full fuel cell - probably two 20 + gallon
tanks and a single 1 gallon surge tank.
sections in the floor are "lower than stock" to
accomodate the occasional mtn bikes INSIDE the back.
dual optimas located inside the rear.
STRONG "removable" winch mounts - front and rear for an
8257 Warn winch
Of course - permanent air - via electric and if
there is room for a belt - engine belt pump as well.
attached 5 gallon air tank to drive tools - external
ari attachemtn point front and rear.
Nice stereo and ham radio equipment was well...
Twin Recaro's and Schroth rally belts for street - full
6 point harnesses for off road.
Full zoot Autometer instruments - (hell - a Pi instrument
panel is cool - but lets not get too silly :P
no interior - except for maybe Rhino liner
all wiring located HIGH for improved fording depth :)
Hella H4 headlings - quad PIAA 80 series (fog and spot)
with ION bulbs in the fog beams as well as Hella
XL lights for "road" use.
BIG radiator (can never have too much cooling capacity!)
Water / oil heat exchanger.
remote Oberg oil filter
(no need for an accusump - dry sump remember)
Earls hoses for everything!
Silicone water hoses
I dunno - Assuming I do alot of work - uh 50-60K?
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 01 Aug 1997 21:42:04 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jay Kopycinski wrote:
>
> What if you could build almost any drivetrain you wanted
> for your Toyota truck or 4Runner.....what would it be?
Hmmm. Anyone out there think I could stuff my Navistar 7.3l DIT
PowerStroke and E4OD into an '84-'85 4Runner? Not without a suspension
lift, huh?
The next question would be what to do with the 22RE? I KNOW that'l fit
between the fenders of the F-350....
I guess the powertrain would just about eat up the entire budget. I am
so sorry...But the torque is sooooo goooood!
Seriously, although the blue bowtie is a no-no around my place, I am a
fan of the Vortec 5700. And I do like FJ45 pickups. An NV4500 or SM420
would probably wind up in the drivetrain as would something from Mr.
Czajkowski's shop. ARBs in the stock carriers with 3.90 or 4.10s (I
think they are strong enough, I've played with enough OEM Toyota diffs).
I am a novice when it comes to suspension fabrication so I'll probably
hang out and see what other folks come up with. Maybe some modification
of the OME kit allowing for more height???
Basic uses? Rock crawling and desert exploration. Has to be comfortable
enough to drive around town occasionally (decent HVAC, seating, NVH
controls, outward visibility, sound system, etc.)
Still, I keep thinking back to that Australian-market '94 Hilux double
cab SR5 I got to play with a few months ago...(scanned photos
forthcoming).
- --
Jim Brink - Manhattan Beach, CA 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R/M5
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 32"BFG AT
(brinkjm@earthlink.net) LockRight/4.10 Gears
***********************************************************************
TLCA# 6184 / Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR) / MRVMA-DESERT EXPLORERS
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 1 Aug 1997 21:36:20 -0600
From: Agustinus Harjadi Gunawan
Subject: Ulimate toy
To: "'Toy4X4@tlca.org'"
My ultimate toy would be:
Intended use: Long range touring, everyday transport vehicle, mud bogging,
rock crawling, tough truck competition.
Body: Std 94 cab on SWB chassis with at least 6 point Roll Cage made
using Chrome Moly Tubing
Suspension:
Front: Coil (3" lift over stock) with radius arm and panhard bar
Rear: Coil main spring with airbag as helper spring with simple 3 link arm
Got to have at least 2000 Lbs. Payload.
Steering: Rack and Pinion box mounted behind the axle.
Engine: Toyota 3.3 Turbo Diesel or 3.4 L V6 or maybe any aluminum
engine with equal power for weight saving
Trans: 6 speed with granny low Toyota 2 ton Truck for the diesel
Or standard trans with the 3.4 V6
Transfer case: Dual marlin with 4.7 in the second transfer case.
Single for the Diesel (enough torque and comes with engine brake)
Front: Standard 94 Toyota Live axle (Yes they still produced it in some
country)
With ARB and 4.88 for the V6 or 4.10 for Diesel
Rear: Standard With ARB and 4.88 for the V6 or 4.10 for Diesel
Or if they are not strong enough FJ 45 Full Floating axle.
Wiring: Fully waterproofed
Water proof gauges
Other accessories:
Hot water system
Welder
Dual Battery system (mounted under the bed for better weight dist)
2 speed hydraulic winch with custom attachment for front and rear use
Or probably center mounted if possible (don't have to deal with F/R
Mount also provide better weight distribution)
Extra power steering fluid canister to compensate the rear winch Hyd line
Air Compressor
Safari Snorkel
Recaro seat ex Volkswagen (used cheap, very good support)
At least 40 gallon fuel tank
Air Conditioning (a must)
Fiberglass front fender (larger opening and weight saver to compensate
the heavy diesel )
Reason: I am an international student right now. If I got the money to
start this project probably I already went home. Some of these parts
would be easier to locate in my country.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 2 Aug 97 14:40:15 UT
From: "Richard Springett" <78cruiser@msn.com>
To: "Toyota list"
Frame and Body: 88 4Runner, Fiberglass front fenders
Your basic use: All around from mud to rock to mountain trails and everyday
plus highway
Tire size: 33"BFG M/T's
Engine (type, size, induction): 3.0V6 or in my other dreams, a Toyota 2.8TD
Tranny: Stock 5spd
Transfer Case(s): Dual marlins so I have hi-lo-lolo
Adapters (if any): nada
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): 85 Toyota live axle w/88 brakes ARB,
4:88, CTIS
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock, ARB, 4:88, CTIS
Particular reasons for your choices? Toyota's are great, I'd just like to be
able to choose all the best from all years...
Oh, and to the Unimog guy, I think that is a great idea. I suggest you also
look into Toyota diesel imports. Smog is not the issue w/diesels, just
crashworthyness.....
Rick 88 4Runner SR5 V6 5spd (mine) 31's, Bushwackers, lots
more soon
TLCA #5042 94 4Runner SR5 V6 auto (hers) 31" BFG's, 4:88's, Optima, K&N...
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 3 Aug 1997 12:59:18 -0500
From: "Dean Hufstedler"
Subject: *** Ultimate Toy ***
To:
My ultimate toy isn't nearly as extravegant as some of the others (EWONG),
but it would serve my purposes perfectly. Here it goes.
Your basic use: Everything. School truck, offroad, and everything else I
do.
Tire size: 31x10.5 BFG M/T's
Engine (type, size, induction): 22R built comparably to LC Engineering's
Stage 3 motor. (150-175 hp)
Tranny: Toyota 5 speed
Transfer Case(s): Dual Marlin with 4.70's in rear case
Adapters (if any):
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock Toyota, TrueTrac, 4.37
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Stock Toyota, Detroit, 4.37
Suspension: 2 or 2.5 in Alcan Springs from RMOR (nice and soft) with
custom shock mounts for about 10-12 inches of travel (hopefully) with dual
MV-12's in front and single in back. Energy P/U throughout.
Particular reasons for your choices?: Well, since I'm just a senior in
high school and this is my daily driver I couldn't get too radical. I
don't really need room for huge tires but some 31's and lots of travel
would be awsome. I would also have a racing-style in-cab cage and bumpers
with Hella rally $000's (there's that $ instead of a 4 again) cuase I hate
wheeling at night with stock lighting. There's probably some cool stuff
I've left out but yall should get the Idea. I'm after an awsome comination
of practicality and performance.
Josh Hufstedler
84 X-tra Cab SR5 with brand spankin' new Energy Suspension Hyperflex
bushings and lovin' em
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 04 Aug 97 13:49:47
From: "Fisher, Gary"
Subject: ** The Ultimate Toy **
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
My Ultimate Toy would have to be more work on my current 89 Extra Cab Turbo
Diesel. I love the look of it and it suits my lifestyle to the ground.
Your basic use: Everything except probably not carrying much load. I hardly
ever load the tray up.
Tire size: 35x12.5 BFG M/T's (I'd use a 3 in body lift here??)
Engine (type, size, induction): Tough Choice...It'd be a choice between a 3.4
Intercooled Turbo Diesel or a 3.8 Supercharged Fuel Injected V6 from General
Motors. The V6 would be lighter and more powerful but probably not as good under
water.
Tranny: Landcruiser 5 Speed
Transfer Case(s): Landcruiser (to match the gearbox)
Adapters (if any): Marks 4WD adapters have kits to fit all of the above.
Front Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Hmmmm. I might stick with the IFS (I like
the way it rides) but with a tougher centre ie 9inch. 4.8's (I still would like
a pretty low RPM for cruising).
Rear Axle (type, TAD, gear ratio): Dana 60 with 4.8's ARB Air Locker.Disc brake
rear end.
Suspension: Have to be Coil conversion all round with a disconnecting sway bar.
The coils would be long travel but soft(I never carry a load remember). Single
Koni shocks on each corner
Particular reasons for your choices?: First of all, It's because I LOVE the way
my truck looks. Coil spring work wonders. I wouldn't put a locker in the front
nor use a second transfer box. I chose the tyres for all round use as im too
lasy to be swapping them each time I use the car. I love my diesel becuase it
runs underwater without a worry and the fuel economy is great.
Gary Fisher
garyf@hpa.com.au
***************************************
* 89 Hilux Extra Cab 2.8 Turbo Diesel *
* 32 BFG MT ARB Bars all round *
***************************************
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Jul 1997 23:52:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jimmy Tom
Subject: Racing suspensions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Charles wrote:
> Does anyone have any experience with racing suspensions for 86-95
> Toyota 4X4 pickups??? I'm thinking of buying a 1989 Toy and building
> it for running fire roads, sand, etc. I think it would be a good
>
I'm trying to put together a pre-runner myslef and so far I'm still
learning a whole bunch about what is supposed to run well. Here's what
I've gathered so far:
- -Rear suspesnion: LOTS of travel, and it had better be soft! Take a look
at the next SODA race on espn2 (I think it might be on july 17, CYLL) and
you'll see the Class 7 trucks (toys, rangers, etc) jump the berms w/ ease
bcuz the relatively light rear end can absorb all the impact after
catching air and keep its tires in contact w/ terra firma....makes you go
faster. Most guys run the longest, softest shocks thru the bed and couple
them w/ the softest custom springs they can afford. Usually, a tube frame
is constructed and attached to the existing frame and the shocks are
mounted on the frame. Some people go all out and deep six the bed
altogether, construct a full tube chassis....but where do they put the ice
chest? I've been eyeing some Fox remote resevoir shocks myself, but at
170 clams each I've decided bank robbery might be too risky. Most of the
custom springs here in Southern Cal are by national spring or Deaver (they
use Nat'l spring packs and make different shackles and clamps). Usually,
they come w/ 7-9 leafs and are extremely soft.....think about using a
track bar to keep springs from twisting all up. Figure on 12-18" of
travel.
- -Front IFS: major pain in the gluteus maximus to build for hi-speed
wheelin. The CV joints won't allow for much travel at all, the rear
A-arm mounting points like to spread upon impact, ball joints don't
cooperate as well, and everyting is just too darned expensive. But if
you're running 2wd as most desert racers are, then front IFS becomes a
beautiful thing. Front strut frames are available that lower mounting
points and allow for 12-14" of travel and it beefs up the front part of
the frame considerably. Downey, Duffco, Fabtech are a few companies that
offer dome prefabbed units. I've heard that the front end set up should
be a bit stiffer than the rear to compensate for engine and cab weight as
well as for steering control as that back end likes to wag around on soft
surfaces.
- -Tires: I believe the philosophy here is to run tires w/o the big lugs
and deep treads to help flotation over soft dirt and sand. I was checking
out Kreg Donohoe's SCORErace truck in Anaheim and he liked to run BFG AT's
in the rear while running BFG MT's in the front. The rear tires wouldn't
dig themselves a hole while the front tires could get a pretty good bite
w/ the weight over them as well as the large amount of neg camber dialed
in...go figure. BTW, it was a 2wd toyota. Tire size is kept conservative
to 31's with 33's being the limit for minitrucks.
- -Misc: Donohoe's truck had them super bitchin' hydraulic
bumptops....you'll never feel it bottom out if the suspension reached full
compression. Torsion bars were Sway-a-way 300M's (30.0mmm dia.).
So there's my term paper....sorry for all of the bandwidth. I think Nick
has more than dabbled on this stuff, so he'll have more insights on
suspension set-up.
BTW, if all goes as planned I'll be heading out to the Fireworks 250 race
in Barstow early fri. morning....if anyone else is going from this list,
lemme know.
Jimmy Tom
92' P/U 4x4
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:47:57
From: Charles
Subject: Racing suspensions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 11:52 PM 7/8/97 -0700, you wrote:
>
>On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Charles wrote:
>
>> Does anyone have any experience with racing suspensions for 86-95
>> Toyota 4X4 pickups??? I'm thinking of buying a 1989 Toy and building
>> it for running fire roads, sand, etc. I think it would be a good
>>
>
>I'm trying to put together a pre-runner myslef and so far I'm still
>learning a whole bunch about what is supposed to run well. Here's what
>I've gathered so far:
>
>-Rear suspesnion: LOTS of travel, and it had better be soft!
I've been thinking about Jays Modified spring pack, he gets pretty good
travel I here.
SNIP!
>I've been eyeing some Fox remote resevoir shocks myself, but at
>170 clams each I've decided bank robbery might be too risky.
What do you think of the bilstiens for this application? Maybe Doetcsh Tech?
>-Front IFS: major pain in the gluteus maximus to build for hi-speed
>wheelin. The CV joints won't allow for much travel at all, the rear
>A-arm mounting points like to spread upon impact, ball joints don't
>cooperate as well, and everyting is just too darned expensive.
Downey has those slip yoke axle shafts. They claim 12" of travel. I talked
to them and they said most people get 6-8" under normal use, the extra
travel comes into play when you jump your vehicle. They also sell a rear
truss for the A-arm and replacement ball joints.
Does anyone have any experience with any of these items? if so, What
do you think of them???
>BTW, if all goes as planned I'll be heading out to the Fireworks 250 race
>in Barstow early fri. morning....if anyone else is going from this list,
>lemme know.
Lucky Devil!
Charles Brooks
cbrooks1@mail.acilink.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:22:30 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Racing suspensions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Charles wrote:
"Does anyone have any experience with racing
suspensions for 86-95 Toyota 4X4 pickups? I'm
thinking of buying a 1989 Toy and building it
for running fire roads, sand, etc. I think it
would be a good compliment to my 83 pickup."
To which Jimmy Tom replied (very eloquently):
"I'm trying to put together a pre-runner
myself and so far I'm still learning a
whole bunch about what is supposed to
run well...Rear suspension: LOTS of travel,
and it had better be soft!...Front IFS:
major pain in the gluteus maximus to build
for hi-speed wheelin. The CV joints won't
allow for much travel at all, the rear
A-arm mounting points like to spread upon
impact, ball joints don't cooperate as
well, and everyting is just too darned
expensive...Tires: I believe the
philosophy here is to run tires w/o the
big lugs and deep treads to help flotation
over soft dirt and sand."
I cut out a lot of Jimmy's "term paper" for expediency. He hit all the high
and low points. I've been using my '81 Toy to chase our SCORE 5-16 for a
while now, and had always wondered why so many durn Fords out there.
Answer: they work.
Since you haven't bought your pre-run truck yet, I suggest you do a lot of
research and talk to a lot of people. You'll find virtually none run Toy
4x4's, because you can get a lot more travel for a lot less money (and a
lot less headache) by going with a different manufacturer and drive
configuration.
I'm in the middle of building a non-Toyota pre-runner/chaser right now. I
hated like hell to go with somebody besides Toyota, but the fact of the
matter was that I could have more than twice the travel at less than a
third of the cost by switching brands.
As far as rear springs, you have to run 'em sacked out (super-soft) in the
rear, because with a light unloaded bed, stiff springs will catapult the
rear over the front, and you have an end-over-end roll on your hands. For
tires, go for puncture resistance. We use Goodyear Wrangler HT's (yes, a
highway tire) because of their incredible sidewall strength. We even use
them on the Bug.
Talk to shops like Fabtech in Anaheim, Duffco in San Dimas, and DeNunzio in
Goleta (all in CA). They do multiple brands and configurations, and will
help you sort out what you want. You might also want to call Baja Brokers
at (619) 723-2117 to find out what they have used - you can get some great
deals there.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:15:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jimmy Tom
Subject: Racing suspensions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> >On Sun, 8 Jun 1997, Charles wrote:
> >I've been eyeing some Fox remote resevoir shocks myself, but at
> >170 clams each I've decided bank robbery might be too risky.
>
> What do you think of the bilstiens for this application? Maybe Doetcsh Tech?
You could go for the 'Steins, but off the shelf, they're way too stiff.
I'm running Doetsch Tech MV-12's in the rear and they are loads better in
soaking the rough stuff up. Very beefy shocks.....and cheaper then
Bilsteins. If you could get some custom valved Bilsteins however........
> Downey has those slip yoke axle shafts. They claim 12" of travel. I talked
> to them and they said most people get 6-8" under normal use, the extra
> travel comes into play when you jump your vehicle. They also sell a rear
> truss for the A-arm and replacement ball joints.
>
> Does anyone have any experience with any of these items? if so, What
> do you think of them???
|From the people I've talked to, the slip yokes don't like to rotate at
speeds over 40mph or the u-joint likes to scatter itself all over.
Granted, 4wd isn't really necessary while running fast in these small
trucks, but in the occasions where I'd like to run 4wd in soft terrain, I
sure HOPE to go over 40mph! Talking to the ownwe of Duffco...he mentioned
somebody making a "kit" for the 4wd IFS using BMW *gasp* CV joints w/
custom halfshafts for travel....but like I said, bank robbery is getting
much too trendy here in L.A.
As for the truss, I believe Scott Wilson was gettin the lower A-arm bar
from 4WPW, but he was having some trouble getting it delivered (any word
yet, Scott?). Looks like a very good idea.
Ahhhh.....two more days until the race, 100 degree weather, dust, and all
you can eat breakfasts!
Jimmy Tom
92 P/U
------------------------------
Back to the top of this thread
Back to the top of the General Info group
Back to the top of the Toy Thread Tree