Clutch R&R
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 97 11:26 PST
From: Robert.Elsemore@ncal.kaiperm.org
Subject: Clutch problem
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Michael,
I don't envy you having to do all of that tranny R&R for what
seems like nothing. I do have a couple of suggestions though.
Pilot Bearing: An easy removal trick is to pump grease into the
the pocket area behind the bearing until the area is completely
full. Then take a shaft of some sort that is the same OD as the
pilot shaft (I believe I used a Craftman 3/8" extension) and quickly
tap the shaft in through the hole in the bearing. The hydraulic force
of the grease forces the bearing (or bushing too) right out!
As for bleeding the hydraulics, I think the $35-$50 spent for a vacuum
bleeder is well worth it. I work in the garage late at night and
usually can't find anyone to help bleed the brakes, clutch etc., but
you can bleed all by yourself with one of those vacuum bleeders. I can
just imagine the self bleeding jokes going through your head now.
What next...oh, the clutch master and slave. Easy rebuild for under
$10 I guess if you have to by a hone ($10) and that assembly gook
($3) the cost could be near $25, but that's still cheaper than a rebuilt
isn't is? And you get the satisfaction of building it yourself :)
- -Rob Elsemore, 85 4Runner
--------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 16:00:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Clutch problems
To: mmichael@wsunix.wsu.edu, Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Michael L Martin wrote:
> Well, as I stated last week, Sat. was the day to replace
> Mr. Clutch as my pedal travel had quickly evaporated down to
> almost nil.
> Pulled the tranny and inspected.....hmmmmm...clutch plate
> looks ok.....everything seemed ok. Pilot bearing was shot (IMHO, that
> is). Bought another for $10, but couldn't get the old one out!!!!
This is a PITA without a puller. We got ours out by taking a socket and
wrapping it with tape until it was a real tight fit (in the pilot bearing
hole). Then, packed the whole with grease, and put the socket in there.
Next, hit it with a hammer a few times, then pack some more grease in
there...ect. Eventually it does come out. They sell/rent pullers too.
> Three of us all tried our best for the better part of an hour to get
> that puppy out. No luck. Finally figured, "Screw it." Put the new
> clutch in regardless. No go. Everthing worked just as it had before.
> Very little pressure from the pedal and have to pump to get into Rev.
> Sometimes a minor grind into 1st or 2nd. Am thinking hydraulics.
> Didn't bleed the system. Would like to if I can find the time
> and help. Heard there is an adjustment for the pedal, but wasn't sure
> on the logistics involved....any comments/ideas would be appreciated.
> Also figure the slave cylinder is possibly shot, but that's out of
> reach right now as my wallet is doing a ghost-town impression.
Sounds like you need to bleed the system...hey, you're in Pullman? I'm
like 5 miles away in Moscow. If you need some help, give me a call (208)
885-8112.
> No travel in Pullman, WA..........
> M.
> mmichael@wsunix.wsu.edu
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Mar 1997 20:34:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 31 Mar 1997 sbever@jeffnet.org wrote:
> Any tips on replacing a clutch for a '88 4Runner and recommendations
> for a clutch disc, pressure plate, and t/o bearing?
I used a Downey Super clutch on my '87 p/u (4cyl). If I had it to do
over, I'd probably had gone with a lighter centerforce. The Super Clutch
was just to heavy duty for my truck. I blew out the master cylinder
within the first week, and about 1 month after installing the clutch, I
broke the ball-stud (that the fork pivots on). That last one was a real
pain as I had to pull the tranny to replace it.
The high pressure of the aftermarket units isn't always needed, and the
higher metal content of the clutch plate is harder on the flywheel.
If this is your original clutch, you might want to just go with another
stock clutch. Really, if a stock one lasts you more than 100,000 it's
plenty stout enough for the job. (IMO)
Removal and replacement:
Well, one of these days I'll get around to writing up how mine went (along
with that 4" suspension install that I've been meaning to do for the past
year..), but in a nutshell:
It's not too hard, but time consuming. Some bolts will be real stuck, and
you may have a hard time seperating the bellhousing/tranny from the block
(mine was really stuck). We used a small pickle fork/crow bar and a few
screwdrivers to pry them apart.
The hardest part, really is lining up the input shaft when putting the
tranny in. I haven't tried this, but some people screw in studs (or bolts
with the end cut off) in two places on the block, and use them as guides
for putting the tranny in. You may want to cut a notch in the end of the
stud so you can unscrew it with a flat blade screw driver once you get the
tranny lined up and mostly bolted in.
Basically, to pull the tranny, you need to pull the driveshafts (hard to
break the bolts loose, but not too hard otherwise), pull the startor motor
(hard to get to, but not too hard), pull the shifters (easy), pull the
crossmember (not too hard), and unplug the reverse and 4wd wiring (for
dash and reverse lights--easy). There may be one or two other things, but
I don't think so.
Then, with a jack supporting the tranny/transfercase assembly, you should
put something underneath or above the engine to hold it up. I used a
block of wood, and the toyota bottle jack (stacked on top of some blocks)
to hold it up (under the oil pan). Then unbolt all the rest of the bolts
holding the tranny and t-case together. Oh, and put the bolts in bags!!
I spent half my time just looking for the bolts when I put it back
together.
On other note. There are two bolts at the top of the bellhousing that are
real tough to get at. The easiest way is to pull the shifters, and use a
long extension (probably 18") and socket through the shifter opening.
Then pull the tranny/x-fer back from the engine (on a jack). Once the
input shaft and belhousing clears the clutch, you can set the tranny/x-fer
down, and move it out of the way. As a side note: I did my friends S-10
tranny first, and thought it was sorta heavy--mabye 100lb for the tranny
and t-case combined. The toyota tranny and T-case is probably twice that!
Don't be fooled by the aluminum casing, they're heavy, and you could
really smash yourself if you aren't careful removing them. I didn't use a
tranny jack, but I think it would have made things much easier.
Once that's out of the way, unbolt your pressure plate, and then you need
to pull the pilot bearing. You will probably want to rent a puller for
that too. If you don't, then try filling the cavity in the flywheel with
grease, and using a tight fitting socket (wrapped in tape) and a small
hammer to hydraulically push the pilot bearing out. The hydraulic method
works, but is messy, and can take an hour or more to do (at least mine
did).
You should also get the flywheel resurfaced, and replace the throwout
bearing too. You should inspect the fork, boot, ball joint, and retaining
clips, but most likely you won't need to replace them. Also, FWIW, they
are usually dealer *only* parts, and often need to be ordered.
Then just put everthing back together, and bleed the clutch system. You
may also want to adjust the clutch (at the pedal, under the dash). You
want it to be as tight as possible without the fork puttin pressure on the
throwout bearing (if it's touching hard enough to make it turn, the
throwout can wear out very quickly--like in a month or two).
So while you are in there, you should replace the throwout bearing (20
bucks) the pilot bearing (5-8 bucks), the pressure plate and clutch disc
(100-300), and get the flywheel resurfaced ($30??).
You won't need any special tools, except for a clutch alignment tool
(usually just a dollar or two). You may want to rent a tranny jack and
pilot bearing puller. You may want to use a manual too. I used the
Haynes one...it's not a real comprehensive, but it helped me out a lot.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:43:17 -0800
From: Earle Rother
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Any tips on replacing a clutch for a '88 4Runner and recommendations
> for a clutch disc, pressure plate, and t/o bearing?
I would go with the stock clutch - they last a long time and may not cost
you as much as the aftermarket ones. I think the heavy duty aftermarket
stuff may be a waste of money and may even cost you more in the long run.
- - is your 4Runner a V6? the V6 tranny and xfer case is much heaver than the
4cyl one. I have done both - the 4cyl is a piece of cake compaired to the
V6 - it was a heavy s.o.b. get a tranny jack it is well worth the money...
also you will need a univeral joint adapter to get the correct angles on
all of the bolts. You dont need to break the clutch line just un bolt it
from the case and move it aside - it has a rubber hose. If you have any
questions I have the Toyota shop manuals.
Earle
Earle Rother
ewr@appsig.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:49:42 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Earle Rother wrote:
>also you will need a univeral joint adapter to get the correct angles on
>all of the bolts. You dont need to break the clutch line just un bolt it
>from the case and move it aside - it has a rubber hose. If you have any
>questions I have the Toyota shop manuals.
I find it much easier to get about ~30" of extensions, Yes ~30". that puts
the extensions just beyond the tail of the transfer case where you
can rest the extensions on the tfercase once you have dropped it a bit
so that you can reach all of the bolt heads easily. then just crank
away with a 1/2" breaker bar and it's quick and easy. I've unfortunately
had mine in/out several times recently so I've become quite adept at it.
I think I bout a 24" piece of 3/8" extension for $14.99, best money
I ever spent for getting that tranny out. Leave the tcase bolted to
the tranny too. No need to seperate them if you're gonna get a tranny
jack which I HIGHLY recommend.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 13:38:53 -0800
From: Earle Rother
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Yea, I use the universal joint adapter and yes about 30" of extensions too
(I left that out). I just stack various lengths till I get it right - the
only problem with the universal joint is that I've snapped them. I am using
the craftsman - so off to sears...
I agree keep the tcase and the tranny in one piece.
Earle
>Earle Rother wrote:
>
>>also you will need a univeral joint adapter to get the correct angles on
>>all of the bolts. You dont need to break the clutch line just un bolt it
>>from the case and move it aside - it has a rubber hose. If you have any
>>questions I have the Toyota shop manuals.
>
>I find it much easier to get about ~30" of extensions, Yes ~30". that puts
>the extensions just beyond the tail of the transfer case where you
>can rest the extensions on the tfercase once you have dropped it a bit
>so that you can reach all of the bolt heads easily. then just crank
>away with a 1/2" breaker bar and it's quick and easy. I've unfortunately
>had mine in/out several times recently so I've become quite adept at it.
>I think I bout a 24" piece of 3/8" extension for $14.99, best money
>I ever spent for getting that tranny out. Leave the tcase bolted to
>the tranny too. No need to seperate them if you're gonna get a tranny
>jack which I HIGHLY recommend.
>
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
> jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
> Decatur, AL
>
> '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
> Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
> SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
Earle Rother
ewr@appsig.com
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 1 Apr 1997 18:18:58 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: " - (052)Toy4x4 (a) tlca.org"
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
> On other note. There are two bolts at the top of the bellhousing that are
> real tough to get at. The easiest way is to pull the shifters, and use a
> long extension (probably 18") and socket through the shifter opening.
While I agree with his statement(s) I do have one thought to offer... It cant
be done using a 3/8 extension; it winds up just like a torsion bar!!!
I went and got the longest 1/2" drive extension that Craftsman makes and used
a 6 point 1/2" drive socket (17mm if I recall correctly). Use the longest
breaker bar too. (I think the extension was 30" and the breaker was the
longer 26" bar) Its on there TIGHT...
Last job I lent tools out on (I got there just in time to curse as "I" got
to pull the tranny (yeah we got all the bolts - really - we chehecked - oh
you didnt mention *that* one (it goes in the other way point towards the
back - its near where the exhaust manifold hold down bracket is - aka
drivers side))
Oh yeah - the bag advice is GREAT too!
I use ziplock sandwich bags and an indelible clothes marker. I write what
they are on the bag - all kinds of other info too (like the shorter ones
go one place an the longer ones go in differnt place). Keeps 'em from
rolling under stuff too!
Ive used a LUK stock replacement clutch - but it only lasted 100K - and it
started slipping occasionaly in 1st when taking off at stop lights (uh -
the leaking rear main and tranny front seal didnt have anything to do with
that eh?)
Speaking of leaks - if ya gots the dough repalace:
rear main seal
tranny snout seal
tranny front cover seal (destroyed to get at the snout seal)
(RTV should work for this in a pinch)
I have a HD flywheel and Centerfor Dual friction in there now - I like it...
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Apr 1997 18:16:27 -0800
From: James Brink
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jack Alford wrote:
>
> Earle Rother wrote:
>
> >also you will need a univeral joint adapter to get the correct angles on
> >all of the bolts. You dont need to break the clutch line just un bolt it
> >from the case and move it aside - it has a rubber hose. If you have any
> >questions I have the Toyota shop manuals.
>
> I find it much easier to get about ~30" of extensions, Yes ~30". that puts
> the extensions just beyond the tail of the transfer case where you
> can rest the extensions on the tfercase once you have dropped it a bit
> so that you can reach all of the bolt heads easily. then just crank
> away with a 1/2" breaker bar and it's quick and easy. I've unfortunately
> had mine in/out several times recently so I've become quite adept at it.
> I think I bout a 24" piece of 3/8" extension for $14.99, best money
> I ever spent for getting that tranny out. Leave the tcase bolted to
> the tranny too. No need to seperate them if you're gonna get a tranny
> jack which I HIGHLY recommend.
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
> jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
> Decatur, AL
>
> '86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
> Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
> SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
I'll go with Jack's idea on the LONG extension(s). I have a neat 36"
long impact extension from MAC Tools the is 1/2" on the drive end and
3/8" on the socket end. This coupled with a good 17MM universal impact
socket does a good job on the upper bellhousing bolts.
- --
Jim Brink
Toyota/ASE Certified Tech.
brinkjm@earthlink.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 22:05:07 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Wed, 2 Apr 1997 sbever@jeffnet.org wrote:
> How do you support the motor while you lower the tcase before (and
> after) unbolting it?
I use a big chunk of wood on top of the toyota bottle jack. Seems to work
okay.
> What do you think of the floor jack tranny attachment? It only
> rotates left and right unlike a tranny jack which rotates fore and aft
> as well. Also only costs $39.
Depends upon the jack that it's going on top of. Most regular floor jacks
aren't real wide. I dunno, I did my tranny using just a regular costco
floor jack. I guess it's nice having a jack that can go really low, so
that you can slide the tranny out from underneath ontop of the jack. (my
jack was not like this.) I had to lift mine off (which wasn't too big of
a problem) but putting it back on...oh man that was hard. Took four
people (three underneath, and me up top using a 2x4 with my tow rope
wrapped around it for a makeshift hoist), and even then it was a pain.
> I do need a tranny jack for my Cruiser, as I have to change fore/aft
> angles as I drop it to avoid the rear frame crossmember. How bout
> with the 4runner?
Didn't notice that problem on my p/u. Bigest problem was getting the
tranny level (left to right) with the engine. Also was hard pivoting it
for/aft too.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 23:00:52 -0800
From: Earle Rother
Subject: '88 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>On Wed, 2 Apr 1997 sbever@jeffnet.org wrote:
>
>> How do you support the motor while you lower the tcase before (and
>> after) unbolting it?
>
>I use a big chunk of wood on top of the toyota bottle jack. Seems to work
>okay.
>
>> What do you think of the floor jack tranny attachment? It only
>> rotates left and right unlike a tranny jack which rotates fore and aft
>> as well. Also only costs $39.
>
>Depends upon the jack that it's going on top of. Most regular floor jacks
>aren't real wide. I dunno, I did my tranny using just a regular costco
>floor jack. I guess it's nice having a jack that can go really low, so
>that you can slide the tranny out from underneath ontop of the jack. (my
>jack was not like this.) I had to lift mine off (which wasn't too big of
>a problem) but putting it back on...oh man that was hard. Took four
>people (three underneath, and me up top using a 2x4 with my tow rope
>wrapped around it for a makeshift hoist), and even then it was a pain.
>
>> I do need a tranny jack for my Cruiser, as I have to change fore/aft
>> angles as I drop it to avoid the rear frame crossmember. How bout
>> with the 4runner?
I may be confused are you dropping a Land Cruiser or a 4Runner.
I assume it was a 4Runner- ??? no
anyway in a pu/4Runner I remove the center frame crossmember that the
tranny is bolted to - you got to remove it. IT would be a big pain to
slide/drag it across the crossmember to get it out.
>
>Didn't notice that problem on my p/u. Bigest problem was getting the
>tranny level (left to right) with the engine. Also was hard pivoting it
>for/aft too.
you also have to think about getting it back in - sure getting it out may
be a cake walk but getting it back in is a whole new ball game - you want a
jack that you can control not some small floor jack that has a couple of
2x4 stacked and ready to fall - very unstable - this tranny + transfer case
is a heavy mother and unless you can bench press ~250-300 your gonna need
a good jack. believe me it is well worth it.
Earle Rother
ewr@appsig.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 1997 21:13:21 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: 4Runner Clutch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
sbever@jeffnet.org wrote:
>
> Thanks for all the useful info regarding my clutch swap; some final
> questions:
>
> 1. I checked out the Toyota clutch kit for $170; wasn't impressed.
> Anyone heard of Asco or Dacon ($84 and 1 year warranty)? I was told
> they are the OEM clutch for Toyota. Also, how about Perfection
> Hy-Test manufactured by Zoom ($119 and a LIFETIME warranty).
Toyota OEM is Aisin. These parts are available from IMPACT, a west
coast parts distributor.
>
> 2. Although I have no leaks now (@ 150,000 miles), I was thinking of
> swapping the rear main crank seal and front tranny input seal. Is
> this good preventative maintenance or not worth the risk of CAUSING a
> seal leak?
A good idea considering the small cost of these items. Replace the
trans. front bearing seal and bearing retainer gasket--easy job once
the trans. is out. For the rear crank. seal, remove the entire retainer
from the motor. It is much easier to tap in the new seal
this way.
>
> 3. Is JC Whitney quality or crap? I found a tranny jack from JC
> Whitney for $125! Anyone used this (scissor type) jack? It is
> supposed to handle 450 pounds, tilts, and has a nylon hold-down strap.
>
> 4. Also, could this be accurate: from JC Whitney, a dual head (3/8"
> and 1/2"), dual indicator (swinging scale AND preset click) 0-15 ft/lb
> torque wrench for $8.99?
You get what you pay for. Hint: Although expensive, MAC Tools
click-type torque wrenches are made by PROTO. The funny part is they
are cheaper from a MAC distributor.
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
Stock 4.10 gears
Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 00:14:16 EDT
From: markadrian@juno.com (Mark D Adrian)
Subject: Clutch's hydraulic cylinders
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Saturday, I replaced both a leaking master clutch cylinder (on my 1986
standard 4-by) and an otherwise working slave cylinder. Based on several
opinions, it was recommended I replace the slave as well as the master. I
obtained OEM AISIN parts at about one-third to one-half the price of what
my local Toyota dealer wanted. Except for the ground off Toyota logo, I
couldn't tell any difference in the parts. Everything right down to the
raised lettering on the castings were the same. Anyway, the job is/was
very easy to do, so don't be intimidated. I used a couple of metric
wrenches, ratchet, and a crescent in one spot. One minor problem was that
I couldn't get enough leverage on the pipe connector going into the slave
cylinder, so I had to disconnect the line at the "joint" just upline
where it meets the rubber hose near the starter. Also, I used some
Berryman's brake cleaner to flush the line (some really grody gunk after
11+ years). And, I used a little silicon seal where the master fits into
the firewall for weather/water protection. You will need a second person
to help bleed to system, my mom helped me, so you don't need a mechanic
type. Be sure to tighten the pipe connectors pretty tight. I had to
torque pretty hard to get them to stop oozing at the slave's input. So,
that probably saved a $100+ in labor. Now, I wonder, is there any way to
tell how much clutch I have left. Are there any tell tale signs you can
glean from the old slave cylinder that might reveal how much is left. Or,
like a friend of mine, do you just wait until you hear that
metal-on-metal grinding noise and hope you're near a service station or
home. And, when I replace my clutch, what is the popular opinion for the
replacement? I've heard you can get a better-than-Toyota variant that
doesn't stress the original design.
Mark
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 20:27:34 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Replacing clutch...what else should I replace?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Dylan Keon & Karen Levy wrote:
>
> I'm replacing my clutch this weekend--anyone have recommendations as to
> what else I should replace in addition to the clutch parts and the rear
> main seal? Seems like I remember someone asking this before, but I
> couldn't find it through the search engine. Nice to have a search
> engine now though!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dylan Keon, KA8PFC
> 1986 22RE 4WD SR5 longbed, 172K
Call me paranoid (I hate comebacks) but I would replace the following:
1. Clutch release fork and pivot ball
2. Transmission input shaft seal (in front bearing retainer).
Don't forget the pilot and throwout bearings too.
Jim
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
Stock 4.10 gears
Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 22:16:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Replacing clutch...what else should I replace?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I'm replacing my clutch this weekend--anyone have recommendations as to
> what else I should replace in addition to the clutch parts and the rear
There may be other stuff, but I'd try to replace the pilot bearing and
throwout bearing. You should probably get the flywheel resurfaced too.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Back to the top of this thread
Back to the top of the Tips - Techniques group
Back to the top of the Toy Thread Tree