Rough Idle Causes


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Date: Tue, 22 Apr 1997 23:19:28 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: rough idling
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Chad D. Zimmer wrote:
> 
> What would be some causes of rough idling an a 22RE. My friend says I
> need a tune up. What all do you do when performing a proper tune-up?
> spark plugs and wires but what else?

Let's see:

Valve adjustment
Incorrect ignition timing,
Vacuum leaks 
Bad ignition wires (Test w/ ohmmeter)
Incorrect idle speed
Cold Start Injector always "ON" (Revised injector time switch avail.)

A good place to start would be an inspection of the spark plugs, plug
wires, ignition timing, and idle speed. Next would be valve adjustment.
Don't overlook the simple things.
- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

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Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 02:03:01 -0400 (EDT)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: rough idling
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

A tune up is an old concept which is not applicable anymore. It was a time
when people replaced points and checked the timing. Today's mills are
electronically controlled from ignition to fuel so if the system is
performing properly there is little to be done. However is the system is 
not functioning right then it needs to be checked. The routinary things 
are to replace the ignition wires it they seem to be fried or worn out, 
change the spark plugs, change your fuel filter and air filter. You may 
want to retrieve computer codes which in a 22RE can be retrieved by 
bypassing the 2-prone connector close to the air filter and turning the 
key on and watch the engine light blink, these blinks have a meaning 
(one blink indicate the efi is fine otherwise consult the manual for 
code translation).

A source of rough idle in EFI engines is air leaks or vacum leaks these
leaks will upset the fuel mixture without triggering any codes.

A bad oxigen sensor will also cause a rough idle, but you should see a code
for it ( I think is number 5, but check it).

I am sure you will get more suggestions, but I hope this will give you a
start

Don't forget to post your results, that way we will know the solution.

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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:31:41 -0700
From: "Todd and Terry" 
Subject: Idle speed
To: 

Okay, here's the problem.
On my 87 Truck with a 22R, my idle speed seems to be creeping up.  The
choke plates are wide open, timing at 0 with both vacum hoses disconnected
from the distributor, engine at normal operating temp, and idle speed
adjustment screw almost falling out.  Idle stays at about 1200 rpm.  If I
manually push down on the throttle bell crank, idle drops to normal.  Carb
springs all look good and are in right places.  Idle will increase if I
tighten idle set screw but will not drop below 1200 rpm.  Any ideas?

					Todd
87 Toyota 4X4, EZ Lockers F/R, 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's, 15X8 AR 26's,
RS 5000's, Ramsey front bumper, Custom Nerfs, Custom rear bumper,
Custom body by Sierra Nevada.

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Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 22:39:25 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: Idle speed
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Todd,

Replace the throttle bellcrank (P/N 78160-89101) and throttle cable (P/N
78180-89138--how's that for memory??) if needed. Over time the bushings
and/or collar wear out in the bellcrank causing it cock sideways,
inhibiting throttle return. When this happens, it can wear the throttle
cable. Carefully inspect the cable to determine if it too needs to be
replaced.
- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

------------------------------
------------------------------

Date: Sat, 10 May 1997 23:50:20 -0700
From: Eric Johnson 
Subject: My engine is missing!
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 

On Saturday, May 10, 1997 4:09 PM, DRM033@aol.com wrote:
>My engines is missing!  no, it is still there, but it is missing. It only
>does it sometimes, usually a higher RPM's on the interstate.  It is not
>always there, and I have no idea what is causing it. Could it be the coil
>going bad?  what would be the signs of this?  How about the igniter?  Any
>ideas?  This is a 22RE.  

Change your spark plug wires. Every toyota ignition problem I've ever had 
was due to spark plug wires. Give it a try...

- -- 

- - ej@blarg.net

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------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 09:22:25 -0400
From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles" 
Subject: My engine is missing!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org


David,
This happened to me in my '83 Celica. Same motor, 22R-E, turned out to
be the plug wires. They were breaking down under load, allowing the
spark to go to ground instead of to the plug. The kicker is, the car was
only 4-5 months old when this started, so even if the wires look fine,
they could be the culprit. If that doesn't help, look at the
coil/ignitor, they can also exhibit the same symptoms. If none of that
helps, the only other place to look is the distributor, it doesn't
happen often but the pickup can go bad. This assumes of course, that
you've already checked for loose, broken, corroded connections in the
aforementioned components. Hope this helps.
- -- 
Butch Stiles 
rokitman@erols.com
Just as it says, "Rocket Man"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 10:20:09 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: My engine is missing!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

If you have Splitfire wires and assuming they are good (check them with
a volt/ohmmeter anyway) I would look for a bad ignition coil or coil
wiring. Check the primary resistance of the coil (+ and -
terminals--should be .05-.07 ohms). Next, check the secondary resistance
(+ terminal to coil wire terminal--should be 11.4-15.6 thousand ohms).
Although not a likley culprit, I would also check the signal generator
(pick-up coil). The spec. for this is 140-180 ohms. 

- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 10:44:27 -0700
From: Eric Johnson 
Subject: My engine is missing!
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 

> 
>If you have Splitfire wires and assuming they are good (check them with
>a volt/ohmmeter anyway) I would look for a bad ignition coil or coil
>wiring. Check the primary resistance of the coil (+ and -
>terminals--should be .05-.07 ohms). Next, check the secondary resistance
>(+ terminal to coil wire terminal--should be 11.4-15.6 thousand ohms).
>Although not a likley culprit, I would also check the signal generator
>(pick-up coil). The spec. for this is 140-180 ohms. 
>  
>  -- 
>  Jim Brink		

I will try this.  I also forgot to ad something that may help.  When I 
hooked up that tach the other day, it feeds one wire off the (-) ternimal 
on the coil.  When the engine misses, the tach jumps up and down.  This 
is why I figured the problem was the coil and not the wires, since the 
tach is picking up on it before the wires.  
Still trying to figure it out

David
DRM033@aol.com

------------------------------

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Date: Sun, 11 May 1997 20:39:31 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: idling problem on 22RE
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Tony Bartlett wrote:
> 
> I have a problem that accures every once in a while.  If I leave my
> truck sitting at idle for an extended period of time 5-10 minutes.  It
> will start to fluxuate above and below normal slow at first but will end
> up dying it drops so low.  Any ideas out there?  Oh, it normally happens
> with warm weather.

It is probably the air valve or the hoses connected to the air valve
from the throttle body. Inspect the hoses first then check the
resistance of the valve at the electrical connector. The spec. is 39-59
ohms.

- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

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------------------------------

Date: Mon, 12 May 1997 13:13:06 EDT
From: markadrian@juno.com (Mark D Adrian)
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #180
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

TX, here's an idea. I had in the past used Nippondenso plugs, which I
recall have the screw on cap attachment to the spark plug's wire.
Whenever I have my engine hood open I perform a quick assessment, which
besides looking for obvious leaks, etc., I tugg on the plug wires at both
the spark and the rotor. Well, one time I had a plug wire pull right off
in my hand off of a Nippondenso plug. What happened was that the small
screwed on plug adaptor threads had worn and the wire was virtually just
"hanging" there. That  made for a poor and sporadic connection. This
could manifest in the same scenario you've described above. So, now I use
NKGs that have the adpator plug integrated right onto the spark plug's
body.

Mark

------------------------------

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Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 02:40:40 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: no cold idle
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

R. W. 'Butch' Stiles wrote:
> 
> This is for Jim Brink, our resident Toyota GURU.
> 
> Jim, on the wife's car ('86 Celica GT, 2S-E motor), the cold idle up
> isn't working anymore. When you start it up cold, you have to sit there
> with your foot on the gas like some old carbureted dinosaur. Can you
> point out the most likely culprits? 

Butch,

The problem is most likely in the air valve or the hoses that route the
bypassed air around the throttle body. Check the hoses to make sure they
are still attached and/or not broken or cracked. Check the resistance of
the heater coil resistance of the air valve  at the connector (should be
around 38-60 ohms). With the engine warm, restrict the airflow through
the valve by pinching off one of the hoses. The idle speed should not
drop more than 50 rpm. You can even remove the valve and inspect it
visually. Cold, you should be able to see through the hose passages.
With the valve warm, the passage should be closed. I have used a heat
gun or hair dryer on the coil portion of the valve to check this.
Removal of the valve is simple, just a bolt or two, the air hoses, and a
few coolant hoses. Some coolant will leak out, so be prepared to catch
it. Clean up any spilled coolant, animals love it (except my dogs, they
have "shop experience").

If the air valve checks out O.K. I would look at the cold-start injector
and the c.s.i. time switch.

Let me know what you find with the air valve inspection.

- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

------------------------------
------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:32:51 -0400
From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles" 
Subject: no cold idle
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Jim,
I checked the air valve with a multimeter and it read about 49 ohms. I
haven't pulled it off yet, no time. I also checked the cold start
injector and it read right at 3 ohms. I'm thinking that it may be the
timer switch. Do you know of any way to test/check it? I only have a 
Haynes book on the Celica and it's kind of sketchy in this area. One
other thing, I checked for codes and got 11 blinks, pause, 11 blinks,
pause and so on. Is this right? There's nothing in the Haynes book even
close.
 Once again, thank you for your responses to us shadetree types, and
also your willingness to share your,(I'm certain) hard-won knowledge. I
know that the things I've learned over the years have come
hard; I've got the scars and battered knuckles to prove it!
- -- 
Butch Stiles 
rokitman@erols.com
Just as it says, "Rocket Man"

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 18 May 1997 20:44:05 -0700
From: James Brink 
Subject: no cold idle
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Butch,

It is really best to visiually check the passage in the air valve before
condemming it. The injector tim switch should measure about 20-40 ohms
with a cold engine to 40-60 with the engine at normal oper. temp. This
is measured between the two terminals. Next check the resistance from
the STA terminal (should be on the side of the sensor opposite of the
locking tab for the plug) to ground. It should be between 20-80 ohms.

A code 1 is normal (could this be how you are reading it)? There should
be about 4.5 seconds between blinks. A code 11 is a TPS code. 11 blinks
one right after another. Clear the system and try again if you have any
doubts.

Check the throttle plate and bore for excessive sludge especially near
the bypass passages fro the air valve.

Keep me (and "US") posted. The Celica's EFI system operates in a similar
fashion to that of the truck's. 
- -- 
Jim Brink				1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician		135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net			32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
					Stock 4.10 gears
					Rear Lock-Right (TRD)

------------------------------
------------------------------

Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 10:30:29 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett 
Subject: No cold idle
To: toy4x4@tlca.org

The person with the celica with the idle problem.  As it sounds you
might check your Throttle Position Sensor (TPS).  If you have that code
(11) as you mentioned and Jim pointed out TPS, you might have a dead
spot in the internal resistor (with the throttle closed).  I would check
it cold and hot to see if it fixes itself once it is warmed up.  Hope
this helps out a little.

Tony.

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Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:17:14 -0700
From: "Baltzly, Michael R(C05422)" 
Subject: Rough Idle
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 

jmcjdg@ix.netcom.com wrote:
>
> I am in need of assistance for my 85 pickup with a 22 RE and 117,000 
> miles on it.  My engine has a rough idle.  It seems like one of the 
> plugs is firing intermittently,  this only seems to  happen when it 
> is idleing.  I have held the throttle steady at different rpms and 
> there doesnt seem to be any miss. I have changed the plugs, wires, 
> cap and rotor but it is still missing.


My '85 is carb'ed, so I'm not sure that this applies to you, but I had 
a rough idle for a long time that finally turned out to be caused by a 
plugged EGR valve.  It is amazing how bad the idle can be if your EGR 
valve isn't working.  Yet the truck can run fine otherwise.  On my 
truck I was able to test the valve on the engine by unhooking one of 
the vacuum hoses that runs to the carb and applying vacuum (sucking on 
it).  If the engine doesn't run worse when you do this, then the valve 
is no good.  The procedure is described well in the John Muir "How to 
Keep your Toyota Pickup Alive" book.  I think that the Toyota manual 
also has enough information to figure out how to do the test.

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Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 18:08:20 -0400
From: H Sutphin 
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #363
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, dave.giles@mail.utexas.edu


>My truck (1986 4x4 extcab, 22R, carbourated, 132k) has a problem.
>When I start it from cold, it:  idles rough, will stall, emits black
>exhaust, back fires on the down shift, and finally deisels when being 
>shut off (Warming the truck up doesn't help).  Here's the kicker; If 
>(after 20 minutes of driving under these terrible conditions) I turn 
>it off and let it cool down for only 1 minute and restart it, all of
>these symptoms dissapear. The spark plugs look terrible (coated w/dry 
>black soot).  They're arn't any obvious worn, or disconnected vacuum 
>hoses.  I want to tune the vehicle up, but I'm afraid the underlying 
>problem will prevent proper adjustments. Any ideas?  EGR?, Distributor? 
>Vacuum advance? I'm not sure where to start...any help would be more 
>than appreciated.


Dave,
I just had a similar problem with my '82 22R (127k miles)..  It is a
rich mixture and could be caused by several items.(Assuming your choke
is working properly) Mine was getting extra fuel from the AAP (aux
accel. pump). I disconnected the vac line from it and plugged it
(temporarily). Ran like a top when I did that. I haven't had time since
Sunday to remove the diaphragm from the AAP to see if it's ruptured, it
could also be the TVSV valve is stuck in an open position...When working
properly the AAP operates when the engine is cold and supplies a little
extra fuel to smooth the idle, it receives vacuum from the TVSV, which
is screwed into the water jacket on the head .  I think the diaphragm is
ruptured/and or TVSV valve is stuck on mine.  My EGR valve and tube (to
carb) became clogged with the carbon (soot), I had to remove it and
flush it out. Didn't really have that much affect on engine operation.
One other possibility is your Fuel Cut Solenoid valve.  It could be
stuck open which would explain the dieseling at shut down. The factory
manual does a pretty decent job of showing the operation of the emission
systems and how to troubleshoot even the most minor vacuum valve.
Good luck.
Harold

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 14 Aug 1997 06:53:31 -0500
From: "Edward C. Fisher" 
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #367
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

>
>DAVE.GILES@mail.utexas.edu wrote:
> 
>> I got your message. Thanks for the tip. After reading it, I went out
>> to the truck, plugged the vacuum hose to the AAP and cranked the engine
>> up. Wouldn't you know it if it worked!  I havn't had a smoother cold 
>> start (idle) like that in a long time.  
>
Dave:

A Toyota mechanic of 20+ years and a personal friend of mine told me to
stick a BB in the vacuum hose for a leaky AAP diaphram.  The pros
affectionately refer to it as a 2 cent tune-up.  I have done this on 3
Toyotas with no adverse affects.  The AAP comes into play VERY rarely.

Ed 
EDWD@TI.COM

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------------------------------

Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 10:02:33 -0700
From: "Baltzly, Michael R(C05422)" 
Subject: Shacking at Idle
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'" 

>When my truck is at idle it tends to shake a little. What I mean by
>shake is the shifter moves around and the truck sounds like it may
>stall. It has actually stalled three times in the past 4 months. The

If you check these two things I think you will find the problem:

1)  Adjust the valves.  The procedure is explained in any repair 
manual--I think that the John Muir "How to Keep Your Toyota Alive" has 
the best description.  All you need is a 12mm wrench, large 
screwdriver, and a feeler gauage.  Be sure to get a new valve cover 
gasket if yours is more than about a year old.  A FelPro gasket set 
with the valve cover gasket, halfmoon gaskets, and gaskets for the 
bolts costs about $20.

2)  Check the EGR valve.  This is the valve at the back of the valve 
cover on the passenger's side.  There is a vacuum line that runs to 
the valve, and if you apply vacuum to the line (suck on it) while the 
truck is idling the engine should just about die.  The "How to Keep 
Your Toyota Alive" book also has the best description of how to do 
this.  If the idle doesn't get worse when you put vacuum to the line, 
then the valve is probably full of carbon.  A new one costs $130 at 
the dealer, so you could try to clean it out if you think it is worth 
your effort.

Mike

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Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 21:35:14 -0800
From: Jim Brink 
Subject: Shacking at Idle
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Christopher M. Zajac wrote:
> 
> When my truck is at idle it tends to shake a little. What I mean by
> shake is the shifter moves around and the truck sounds like it may
> stall. It has actually stalled three times in the past 4 months. The
> last two were no more than a month and a half ago with about 2 weeks
> sperating them. It hasn't stalled for a while. When I go to give gas to
> prevent the engine (22R w/ 125,400 mi.) from quitting, the throttle
> response is sluggish. 

First off, is your idle speed set correctly? It should be around 700-750
RPM. If the carb. is dirty or the choke is sticking closed, this will
cause stalling as well. 

Look though the sight glass on the front of the carburetor and see if
the float level is within the two vertical lines.

> I've read about a few cases with blown head gaskets. What is the sign of
> a head gasket failure?

Engine running hot, excessive condensation in the exhaust, poor
performance, coolant loss, oil in the water, water in the oil, etc.

- -- 

Jim Brink, Toyota/ASE Certified Technician	1986 Toyota Std. Bed 4WD
Manhattan Beach, CA				32x11.50/15 BFG M/Ts
ToyTech@Off-Road.com
************************************************************************
TLCA - Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR) - CA4WDC

Visit http://www.off-road.com Putting Off-Road, Online!

------------------------------


> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 21:51:17 -0700
> From: "Brandon Miller" 
> Subject: rough running, lo power
>
> HELP!!  For about three weeks now I have not ben able to figure out what is
> wrong with my truck..
>
> It has been running rough and backfiring when cold for some time now (timing
> is right on) and about three weeks ago after a 45min drive down the highway
> it got real bad.  I came to a stop sign and the truck died.  I had to keep
> it to 2grand just to get it to run.  Since the only thing I haven't changed
> on the truck is the carb I rebuilt it.  It didn't help so I figured I did it
> wrong and borrowed one from a friend that races (it is his smog carb).  It
> ran the same so I gave up and brought it to a shop.  The guy was convinced
> it was the carb so I decided to buy a brand new weber, and now it runs the
> same (no real surprise).  I have checked everywhere for vacuum leaks (and
> sprayed carb cleaner everywhere there might be a leak (intake) but there
> does not seem to be any leaks.  I tried plugging the EGR to bypass it but
> that is not the problem.  Where else could I have a vacuum leak?  There does
> not seem to be much vacuum.  The timing is set and the plugs are fine (no
> fouling, etc).  This is pretty depressing, I can't figure it out.  I would
> appreciate any thoughts and if you are in the sacramento area and think you
> might be able to help I would be eternally greatful since the two shops were
> worthless and I have done just about everything short of swapping the engine
> (that is next!!!).  I will check compression tomorrow, the oil is fine and
> the water looks like it should (not the head gasket).  After three weeks and
> my truck being my only vehicle I am stumped and, and, and, well HELP!!!!!!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 05:04:21 -0700
From: "jskaggs" 
Subject: Re: rough running, lo power

Hey Brandon,
    While the truck is running take a pair of insulated pliers and pull one
spark plug wire at a time off of the distributor and replace it, the motor
should run rougher when you pull a wire and get better when you replace it.
If you pull one of the wires and nothing changes or has a marginal change
you know that the problem is with that cylinder.  If you find one that is
suspect then Ohm it out and compare it to one of the other wires, they
should be close.  It could just be a bad wire BTDT.  If the wires check out
ok, I would then do a compression check.
Make sure you use Insulated pliers or you'll be in for a REAL shock!  You
can also do a real quick check by looking at the motor while it's running in
a closed DARK garage if there is a problem with the wires you should see
some spark jumps.  It looks really cool.

John Skaggs
TLCA# 5560
Visalia, CA.
thunder90@msn.com
85 4Runner

------------------------------
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Date: Thu, 11 Jun 1998 11:53:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ken Emanuel 
Subject: Re: rough running, lo power

Brandon,
This is a long shot, but the symptoms you describe sounds exactly like what
happened to my Honda Accord when the rotor (on the distributor) got "carbon
tracking."  It took me about 3 days to diagnose, but when I looked closely
at the rotor, I could see where the electricity was traveling down the
plastic and grounding on the metal base of the rotor.

Good luck,
Ken
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ken Emanuel                    Emanuel@csus.edu
'87 Xtra Cab SR5               (22R-E)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*

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Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:59:11 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner 
Subject: Rough rider

Hey Brandon did you try plugging up the brake booster and seeing if it idles 
better? Have you had the timing chain off for any reason lately? A long time 
ago I ran my motor with the timing set back one tooth got it to run okay but 
no power. The timing will show correctly as long as you put the dist in there 
right. I'd say a compression would tell you more, also be careful not to lean 
out the mixture on the weber too much it will burn it up good. With the weber, 
cam and headers my truck really stinks bad at idle (I have it a bit rich) but 
at speed it burns nice and clean.

Good luck..

Sheldon


------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 11:19:15
From: Rick Murray 
Subject: Brandon's rough running 22R

Check for a plugged exhaust system.  Temporarily run 'straight pipes' to see    
if it smooths it out.

Check your intake manifold bolts for tightness.  

Could your timing chain have slipped a couple of teeth on the cam ?

If its a vacuum leak then it should run ok at high rpm, and only run 
rough at or near idle.

You have probably already thought of this stuff, but I figured I would
mention it anyway.

If you need to compare vacuum hose routing to another 22R, you can come over
and look at mine, if you like.

Hope this helps


##################################################################
Rick Murray                                22R motor ; 3-inch lift
84 Toyota 4Runner SR5                    33" BFG M/Ts ; 4.88 gears
Rancho Cordova, Ca.                   Rancho 9000's ; on-board air
 http://www.jps.net/rick99/             Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD

------------------------------

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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 01:09:50 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller" 
Subject: Re: Brandon's rough running 22R


>Check for a plugged exhaust system.  Temporarily run 'straight pipes' to
>see if it smooths it out.
>

I unbolted the exhaust to try this, no affect

>Check your intake manifold bolts for tightness.

They are all tight and the idle does not change when I spray carb cleaner
around it (no leaks)


>Could your timing chain have slipped a couple of teeth on the cam ?

Hope not???

>If its a vacuum leak then it should run ok at high rpm, and only run
>rough at or near idle.

or vacuum advance problem, I think my vacuum advance is shot

>You have probably already thought of this stuff, but I figured I would
>mention it anyway. If you need to compare vacuum hose routing to another 
>22R, you can come over and look at mine, if you like.
>
>Hope this helps
>

Thank You Rick, I might be calling ;)


------------------------------

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Date: Sat, 13 Jun 1998 09:17:10 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett 
Subject: Re: rough running, lo power

Brandon, how did you plug your EGR valve?  If you just put a bb in the
line that will not check for a stuck open EGR valve. You would have to
remove the valve to properly check if it is stuck open from a piece of
carbon.  The EGR operates mainly while highway driving under partial
load (not full throttle)  So since it got worse while driving down the
highway for 45 min.  Then this is a possibility.

Someone else mentioned a plugged exhaust.  If it gets better at higher
RPM's then it is probably not exhaust.  Normally a plugged exhaust will
cause a vehicle to run worse the higher the RPM's .
To quickly check this you could just remove your exhaust from your
header (if you have one) or before you cat.

Toyota Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader


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Date: Sun, 14 Jun 1998 04:06:17 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller" 
Subject: Re: rough running, lo power

>Brandon, how did you plug your EGR valve?  If you just put a bb in the
>line that will not check for a stuck open EGR valve.

But it will bypass it, I only dod it to check if that was part of my problem
with my truck hardly running, I put it back to normal but I have a friend
that runs his the bb way

>You would have to remove the valve to properly check if it is stuck open 
>from a piece of carbon.

I have it off now and I will probably clean it while I am at it.

>The EGR operates mainly while highway driving under partial
>load (not full throttle)  So since it got worse while driving down the
>highway for 45 min.  Then this is a possibility.

I think I blew something, like an intake gasket or and intake (crack).  I
have it all off right now and I have not been able to find anything but
maybe I just didn't see it - I'll see tomorrow

>Someone else mentioned a plugged exhaust.  If it gets better at higher
>RPM's then it is probably not exhaust.  Normally a plugged exhaust will
>cause a vehicle to run worse the higher the RPM's .
>To quickly check this you could just remove your exhaust from your
>header (if you have one) or before you cat.

I did this but I got a new cat anyway, that was not the problem but I hope
it helps with my upcoming smog test.

I am usually a pro at yotas but this one has stumped me, can't wait to
figure it out, probably something stupid like a loose wire on the o2 sensor
(hmm, never checked that)..
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Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:57:43 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller" 
Subject: Re: Rough rider

>Hey Brandon did you try plugging up the brake booster and seeing if it
idles better?

yep, didn't help

>Have you had the timing chain off for any reason lately? A long time ago I
ran my motor
>with the timing set back one tooth got it to run okay but no power.

At zero the little dot on the sprocket is right at the top, it is not
perfectly on the top but if it were to move one link either way it would be
further off..


> The timing will show correctly as long as you put the dist in there right.
I'd say a compression would >tell you more,


Compression was 160 and the timing is at factory, 5degrees

>also be careful not to lean out the mixture on the weber too much it will
burn it up good. >With the >weber, cam and headers my truck really stinks
bad at idle (I have it a bit rich) but at speed it >burns >nice and clean.


Thanks for the tip, hope it doesn't get ruined with all this messing with
the engine running as bad as it is ;(


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