Timing Chain R&R
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 14 Dec 1996 18:01:22 -0800
From: "Dan Smith"
Subject: Timing Chain
To:
You wrote:
>During start up I hear a sort of loud noise coming from under the engine
>that lasts for a few minutes. The auto shop said that it needs a new
>timing chain and it would cost $900. Will it damage anything if it
>breaks? Right now I don't have the money to fix it. Is there any way
>to make it last longer? my truck is a 1993 22RE with 98k
I had the same noise as a warning that my chain was going bad. It is normal
for the timing chain on a 22RE to go bad between 100 & 130 thousand miles
per the Toyota mechanic). The 22RE is an interference engine, which means
it will cause damage & sometimes plenty of it, if the chain breaks! I
personally know of no way to make it last longer.
Dan Smith
prism@premier1.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 96 14:02:38 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Timing Chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Well, I'd get the valve cover off, and check the guides - if they're
broken - then do the chain immediately - If you do it yourself (like
many on the list have - so ask ?'s) it costs around $100-150 for the
timing components, plus anopther $40 or so for gaskets & misc...
I found my last one at NAPA for $91/set.
If it breaks, it will not be OK, but you may luck out?? - probably
not - depends on the valve position and the RPM's, etc. If the guides
are shot and you wear through the timing cover - figure an additional
expense to get that welded up ($50) or a new cover ($250)
If you're thinking of doing it yourself, ask the list for any tips or
help in your area - I think you'll be suprised at the ease of getting
this 'major' engine work done!
- - Brian
------------------------------
>Date: Thu, 05 Dec 1996 18:21:35 -0800
>From: critchpw@craft.camp.clarkson.edu (by way of "Gary Bjork (NightLight)"
)
>Subject: 22RE Timing Chain- Fear not
>To: tlcal@tlca.org
>
>I recently rebuilt a 22R, which is basically the same from the head down as
>a 22RE. You do NOT have to pull the oil pan OR the front diff. My Haynes
>manual says to change the oil pump, you have to drop the pan, which is
>bogus for anyone that's changed one. The timing chain cover is independent
>of the oil pan, so don't worry about that.
>I'd take the cover off (2 10 mm bolts, and about 7 8 mm bolts), and it
>should ccome right off, given that you've taken the water and oil pumps off
>beforehand.
>That isn't to say that it is not an involved process, however. You'll need
>to pull the head, which means the intake, distributor, etc. must go. You'll
>probably end up pulling the radiator, too, just to give yourself some elbow
>room. I've heard of people who have put a chain on without pulling
>the head, but I've never seen it. I wouldn't risk it, since it'd *real* easy
>for the chain to jump a link this way.
>At any rate, if I can do, you can. It just takes simple hand tools, most
>notably of which are 12mm and 14mm wrenches. It will be harder to do in the
>truck (I did mine before i put it in), but I think it's definately plausible.
>Also, with that many miles on your truck, you may want to replace the oil
>pump. You'll _definitely_ want to clean it out and check the tolerances, at
>least. That's just my $.02.
>- -Paul
>
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 6 Dec 1996 03:05:31 -0500
>From: Toy4x4s@aol.com
>Subject: 22RE Timing chain replacement.
>To: tlcal@tlca.org
>
><<<<
>The one thing I want to make sure you know before you start this project is
>to be sure to unscrew the "hidden" bolt. If you don't know about it you won't
>see it, and you will break the top off of your timing chain cover right
>off... used covers are impossible to find! When you take off the valve cover
>look in the top. you will see the big tc sprocket and the most forward part
>of the head will have a puddle of oil there... feel in the puddle of oil, and
>there is a bolt head! Unless you know it's there you will never find it! this
>happened to us the first time we did a timing chain on our 22RE.
>
>We have done this twice, first time was when we were having the head rebuilt
>and of course replacing the head gasket. this was the best way, just to be
>sure the head gasket sealed good so no oil leaked out from the top of the tc
>cover. The last time we did it (2 weeks ago) we only removed all components
>from the front of the engine (A/C compressor, fan, alternator, P/S pump. )
>You'll be amazed how many bolts hold the a/c compressor mounting bracket on!
>you will separate the water pump and oil pump from the tc cover. Also need to
>remove the oil pan. It is not really necessary to replace the oil pump at
>this time. Check to see if yours is worn. shake the 2 gears out and see of
>they are grinding into the oip pump housing. If so, it needs replacing. At
>this time you should replace the seal in the front of the oil pump. Something
>else to look at is your crank pulley. Check if it has a groove worn in it
>from the seal. if so, get a Speedy Sleeve to fix that. The gasket kit for the
>timing chain overhaul comes with the 2 piece tc cover gasket, new water pump
>gasket, new oil seal and new rubber seal for the oil pump. The tc kit is not
>very pricey if you go aftermarket... I bought a kit from AutoZone that had
>the chain, sprockets, guides and tensioner for $65. Just the chain from
>Toyota will run you $100. and from AutoZone it has a lifetime warranty. they
>also carry oil pumps for around $70. Replacing the timing chain and sprockets
>is easy. before reassembling clean all the old gaskets and gunk off with a
>wire wheel or something like that. The job is time consuming, but you don't
>need to pull the front diff. Oil pan yes... and since you have the valve
>cover off, adjust the valves.
>
>Hope this helps.
>
>June Bennett
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Jan 97 15:13:39 -0600
From: Philip Farrish
Subject: Timing chain cover
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Tony wrote:
>I have an '86 Automatic 4Runner with a 22RE. Does anyone know if you
>can
>change the timing chain cover gaskets without pulling the head? If you
>can
>do this, can you change the timing chain without pulling the head
>Tony
>tonyf@efdata.com
Let me start by saying, "Been there done that.."
Here is the way to do it for all that are curious. The first thing you
need to do is check you timing before you start. I made the mistake of
not checking it and when I was finished installing the chain, the time
was off 10 or so degrees! This was caused by the idle position sensor.
So my advise to you is, short out pins ec1 and T1 or whatever it is on
your truck and check you error messages. Set time while this is shorted,
this stops your time advance. (Look under the hood or in your shop
manual to find which pins to short.) If there is an error message take
out the ignition fuse in the fuse panel. After a couple of minutes put
it back in. Re-check an see if the error message is still there. (taking
out the fuse has nothing to do with the timing. It just clears out the
memory in the computer.) If there is a problem, fix it.
Now lets get down to business. First thing is to remove your batt.
It kind of gets in the way. Then drain your coolant. Remove front skid
plate if applicable. Take off radiator hoses. Remove fan shroud. Take
out radiator. Take off plug wires from distrib. cap. Take off all three
belts. Remove fan.(Just to get it out of the way.) Take off the idler
pulley in front of the distrib. Remove a/c compressor and power steering
pump. You don't have to remove the wheel on the power steering pump.
Lay the compressor on the frame and the pump by the power steering
reservoir. Remove brackets that hold these things. (Remove all brackets
attached to the timing chain cover.)
This is a good place to tell you how to keep up with where everything s
goes. When you remove brackets and other stuff, put the bolts back in
the hole they came out of and lay them aside out of the way. I've also
found that you can get Dixie cups to put your parts in and label where
they go. This way you won't forget any parts.
Now remove valve cover. The first time I did this, I labeled every wire
and vacuum hose with wire labels. You can use masking tape. This way
you won't forget a hose. Put the truck in neutral. (don't forget to
scotch the tires.) Take a breaker bar and put it on the crank pulley.
Turn it until it is on TDC (TOP DEAD CENTER) on the timing marks. The
crank pulley has a mark on it. Now look on the cam sprocket. You
should have a mark on the sprocket pointing straight up and the chain
prob. has a different color link on that mark. You can take the distrib.
cap off and check to see if the rotor button is pointing at number 1
plug. You can check you rocker arms according to shop manual to see if
it's on TDC. Mark the bolt that holds the distrb. in. Then remove the
distrib. I marked mine so the time would kind of close when I put it
back together.
Remove the crank pulley bolt. This is the biggie! *****TRY NOT TO
MOVE IT OFF TDC****** It makes things a whole lot easier. I put my
truck in 5th gear, with a breaker bar and two foot cheater bar , to
break it loose. Remember it started out at 180 ft lb. After 130,000
miles, it tighten up considerably. You are prob. going to have to buy
or borrow that holding tool they mention in the manual since you have
the auto tranny. Once you have that Basta$% broke loose, look around the
timing chain cover and make sure you don't have anything attached. You
might need to have a pulley puller to get this thing off.
You have two ridged water hoses going into the bottom of the water
jacket of the cover. They are located in the back on each side of the
cover at the bottom. Both have two bolts in them. Now the most
forgotten about bolt. It is located right in front of the camshaft
sprocket. It is going into the top of the cover. You will have to feel
around in the oil to find it. Take that booger out! I went ahead and
replaced my water pump while I was in there. I think some of the water
pump bolts hold the cover on. (can't remember) So if you're going to
replace it, I would take it off before I removed the timing chain cover.
You have two bolts in the front of the oil pan going into the bottom
of the cover. Remove them. Now take an old ax handle or something of
that sort (Wood) and tap off the cover.(Use it like a chisel) This is
less likely to damage the cover. Now check your timing marks on both
sprockets. Are they O.K.? Then proceed. You have now reached the point
of no return....... Remove chain tensioner and chain guides. Remove
bolt going into cam sprocket. Remove cam and crank sprocket.
Now you get to clean off all the old gasket material. ****BE SURE TO
STICK A CLEAN RAG BETWEEN THE BLOCK AND THE FRONT OF THE OIL PAN..****
This will help keep trash and gasket material out of your oil. I was
lucky. A buddy of mine (JACK ALFORD) did most, almost all of the old
gasket removal on the block. We used a razor blade scraper and a sharp
wood chisel. This is the most critical part of this job as far as I'm
concerned. Cause if you don't get off all the old gasket and put it
back together, and it leaks! Guess what..... you have to tear it down
again. That would suck!!!! I bought an after-market chain, sprockets,
tensioner, guides, and water pump. The water pump came with a gasket.
Go to the dealership and buy the gaskets you are going to need. They are
as follows: Two for the cover, an "O" ring for the oil pump, an oil seal
where the crank comes out, and one for the water pump if you replace it.
I thought the "O" ring was a little pricey. 9 bucks for a .50 cent piece
of rubber. The dealership is the only place I could find it. Be careful
when putting in the "O" ring I messed one up and had to buy another.
Don't forget to get all the silicone gasket removed from the oil pan and
the bottom of the head. Be careful not to damage the head gasket! Once
you have all this crap done, it's time to put it back together. My
timing chain didn't have different colored links on it so I put an "X"
on a link and put another "X" on the opposite side of the chain. All
this does is make sure both sides of the chain are equal. Put the
sprocket on the crank, now put the chain on with the "X" on the mark.
Once you've done that, put the chain around the cam sprocket with the
sprocket mark lined up on the "X". The problem I ran into was the old
chain had stretched a little. In this case, you might have to move the
cam a little to get the chain on.
Put your guides and tensioner on. **** MAKE FOR D%MN SURE THE CHAIN IS
PUT ON RIGHT**** The chain is bad about jumping a tooth. Put the new
gaskets on the front of the cover. I used a spray adhesive, made by
permatex, to hold the gaskets on while I put it back together. Then you
need to put some silicone sealant around the top of the cover and also
in the groove around the oil pan. Hopefully you have already put the new
oil seal in and the "O" ring in the oil pump.
Now, slap that booger in. Put some bolts in the front cover kin of
snug, then put the bolt in the top of the cover, by the cam. Now put
the bolts in the oil pan. Once you ve done that, Tighten the bolts on
the front. Hook up the two pipes going into the back of he water
jacket. Put the crank pulley back on. Put on all the brackets, A/C,
steering pump, and pulley. Now the bracket holding the idler pulley
needs to go on before you put the steering pump on. There is a bolt
between the pump wheel and the pump that holds the idler bracket. Put
the belts, and fan on. Put the distrib. back in.
Now take your breaker bar and put the crank pulley on TDC. Make sure
that rotor button is firing on # 1 CYLINDER. Also that the mark on the
cam sprocket is lined up right. If that OK, then put valve cover back
on. The radiator needs to go in now. Put battery back in. Plug wires
and all that other needed junk.
Once you have everything back in. Drain your oil. Do not drain it
before you start. All the oil will stay in the pan. You will have
coolant and other foreign material in your oil. Put some coolant in.
I guess you can crank it when you feel confident everything is all
right.
Check your time and adjust if necessary.
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------
GOOD LUCK!!! It took me a good 12 hours to do the job. This does not
include the time I spent trying to find out why the timing was off 12
Degrees after I finished.(Trottle position sensor)
I'm not going to say it was easy, because it wasn't. I was just tired of
half as% mechanics doing a job wrong!!!!! The dealership may say it is
a 6 hr. job, but it's not. Not if you want it done right.... It took a
good two hours for Jack and I to get the old gasket off. I think other
mechanics probably use the old gaskets. Just put a little silicone on
there and slap it back together.
I probably left out a bunch of stuff. This at least gives you a good
idea of what you are going to encounter.
Get a good shop manual and "Just do it". If you have any questions,
E-mail me and maybe I can help.
Phil
1989 4runner 4banger
137,000 miles and still good as new.
------------------------------
In response to changing the timing chain or timing cover, the most efficient
way is to pull the oil pan not the head, otherwise it becomes more expensive.
One would have to replace the head gasket at least if doing it from the top.
Thus pull the oil pan first, then pull the timing cover which is held by
about 10 bolts, do not remove the water pump from the cover only the long
12mm bolt that holds it. Pay attention to this bolt it is usually rusted
and since is close to the chain tensioner water tends to leak around that
area. Replace all the seals oil pump seal, and front seal since this is
also prone to bad leaks in 22Rs.
When removing the oil pump let the oil drain from the engine overnight, and
dry the bottom of the engine as much as possible that way when puting the oil
pan back you will have a very good seal.
Remember, put the timing cover first then the oil pan second.
I did not go into what it takes to align the gears, cam and crakshaft, I
assume the person that is doing it knows how to do it already, but always
use your factory manual.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 08:26:02 MST
From: chott@aicd.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: 86 22RE timing chain cover
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
>I also have a '86 22RE, automatic 4Runner that I HAVE changed out the
>timing chainand associated sprockets. You DO have to remove the head
>to access the timing chain cover. I would strongly recommend getting a
>toyota service manual for your truck for your specific year. I have one
>and could not have done the job with out it. Once you have it all back
>together, you have to set up the timing, and rocker arm gap, which
>this manual shows you how. I spent about $300 dollars on parts and
>gaskets. The dealership wanted about $1100 to do the same job.
I changed the timing chain on my 85 22RE and did NOT have to remove
the head. I went the other way and dropped the oil pan. You do have
to remove the valve cover to get at one of the bolts that holds the
timing cover on. My truck is a straight axle so you may have more trouble
getting your oil pan off with the IFS. At any rate, the head does not
have to come off for any other reason. The timing chain cover is sort of
clamped between the oil pan and head, so I reasoned that only one had to
come off, I think it's your choice which one. I didn't want to mess with
something that didn't leak (the head gasket).
Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.mot.com
1985 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Jan 97 09:34:27 -0600
From: Philip Farrish
Subject: Timing Chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
> Phil
>
> I have an 89 4Runner witn 220K on it -
> Uh - why did you have to replace the chain at 140K?
>
> If you see Jack - tell him I cant really send a check until later in
>the month..
>
>
> EWong
>
Well this is the deal: A buddy of mine has an 88 4Runner and his cam
sprocket BLEW up at 134,000. I think his chain cut into the water jacket
and got hung up, causing the mishap. Why I don't know. That made me
think about mine. All these people on the net talk aout changing it
around 130k, So I just decided to do it. All the parts I replaced
looked good as new. The tensioner barely had a groove in it. The
guides looked new. Another friend of mine has an 85 4Runner and it has
256k. He doesn't seem woried about the chain either. (LIKE YOU) The
only advise I have to give anybody is to change your oil regularly,and
listen for funny noises in the engine. If I heard anything out of the
ordinary, I would pull the valve cover , and look at the guides. You
probably can see the with a flashlight. If they are cut into, it prob.
means that your chain is cutting into the water jacket. (Replace the
chain)
Phil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 09:44:00 -0700
From: "fourxtoy@mail.thuntek. net"
Subject: Timing Chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I changed the timing chain on my 85 22RE and did NOT have to remove
> the head. I went the other way and dropped the oil pan. You do have
> to remove the valve cover to get at one of the bolts that holds the
> timing cover on. My truck is a straight axle so you may have more trouble
> getting your oil pan off with the IFS. At any rate, the head does not
> have to come off for any other reason. The timing chain cover is sort of
> clamped between the oil pan and head, so I reasoned that only one had to
> come off, I think it's your choice which one. I didn't want to mess with
> something that didn't leak (the head gasket).
>
> Jim Chott
> rzaa80@email.mot.com
> 1985 4Runner
>
>yes its true that you can drop the oil pan and access the timing chain
cover. And yes its true you do need to pull the head gasket cover to
access the top bolt. However, my '86 4Runner had 175k on it and why else
would you be changeing the timing chain, but to prevent the breakage of
an old chain and having the piston clobber the valves. If your going to
go through that much trouble you might as well pull the head and clean
the piston heads of all carbon buildup. I had about 1/16" to 1/8" of
carbon on the piston heads. Now that I have cleaned it up, the gains in
power are quite significant. Again, I had 175k on it, the 22RE was past
due for a new timing chain.
'86 4Runner
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 10:08:52 -0700
From: "fourxtoy@mail.thuntek. net"
Subject: Timing Chain
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Phil
I have an 89 4Runner with 220k on it-
uh - why did you have to replace the chain at 140k?
SUGGESTION: check out the Off-Road's web page for Toyotas, they have
some interesting info:
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/4_dts.html
the first line in the common area, says a little about timing chains.
its better to change the chain, than to take a chance and breaking your
engine. Another writer had a problem where his chain broke and the
repairs cost somewhere around $800. My 4Runner had 175k and the chain
tensioner had some pretty deep groves worn into it. The right guide had
a piece of it borken off and somehow found its way past the bottom
sprocket and into the oil pan.
FourXtoy@ThunTek.Net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 12:39:34 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Timing Chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I had to replace my timing chain at 75, 000. Actually, the tensioner was the
problem, and it made the chain make the most wonderful noises. I got the
parts pretty cheap, so I said "why not do it while it is apart anyway"?
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 11:22:39 -0800
From: Frank Di Giovanni
Subject: Timing Chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 10:08 AM 1/17/97 -0700, you wrote:
>Phil
>
>I have an 89 4Runner with 220k on it-
>uh - why did you have to replace the chain at 140k?
>
If the chain ever broke,it would force the piston into the valves. Then you
are looking at a very expensive repair. I heard of repairs around $1500.00
Can. up here in Canada. That does not include the head if it is damaged.
Frank Di Giovanni
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Jan 1997 07:39:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Toy4x4s@aol.com
Subject: timing chain...
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
<
Rich:
If you want to take out the oil pan on an IFS - you have to DROP
the IFS - all the way out.
I know - I tried for hours to do it w/o taking the IFS all the way out -
the oil pickup prevents ya from taking the pan out w/o taking the diff
down at least 1 foot. If you have a lift... you might be able to do it w/o
taking the axle all the way out, but you would need a second sent of hands
in there.
Get a soft face hammer (Craftsman has one w/ a urathane face) and
really wack at it.
You wont need to "cut" the seal off like the factory manual sez.... at
least I did'nt.
There was a thread here somehwere about of the chain could be done
w/o dropping the pan. If I recall correctly, several people did it by
taking it apart from the top. Just dont drop anything in the pan!
Also - theres a hidden bolt in the chain ocver - its under a small
puddle of oil. Dont bust off the cover!
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 25 Mar 1997 20:30:44 -0800
From: "Todd and Terry"
Subject: Timing chain
To: ,
Just did a friends timing chain on an 86 with the 22r. We did it without
removing the oil pan. Just use lots of permatex blue in the groove of the
oil pan and in the lower corners of the timing chain cover, block, oil pan
junction.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 01:46:04 -0500 (EST)
From: BCSTOY@aol.com
Subject: Timing chain
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
A timing chain must be changed if the following happens:
there is ticking noise coming from the front cover and seems to increase as
the speed goes up.
if you pull the valve cover and you see the chain guide broken and the chain
rubbing agains the timing cover.
excessive slack in the chain will cause some sort of slaping noise at the
front cover. The chain will eventually break the guides and in the extrem
drill a hole on the timing cover usually on the right hand side of the
cover (driver side).
Timewise, a truck with more than 100K may require a timing, but of course
that will depend on your driving habits.
You must remove the radiator. I strongly recommend dropping the oil pan,
that way you will ensure of no future leaks and may be check the nuts in
the connecting rods so you don't throw a rod.
-----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 23:02:11 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Head Install
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jughead,
Have your timing chain wired-up by the cam sprocket to the hood-side
hood latch. This will keep tension on the chain and will keep it
out-of-the-way during the head installation. Also, having a third person
around to work the chain onto the cam while you and another pal lower
the head onto the block is a major help. My wife is an expert at this
operation.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 17:52:34 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Blown Head Gasket ?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Rosenberger Bud wrote:
>
> Lucky you! I have an 85 with a 22r in the barn with a blown head gasket.
> No oil in the coolant but oil is milky and it steams when running. You
> can do a head gasket in about 10 hours using a flashlight under your chin
> while parked at the curb starting at 11:00 pm in Tennessee while on
> vacation and youre 1300 miles from home! I had to rent a torque wrench
> but it all went well:)
Probably not bad under the circumstances but it can be done in a couple
of hours.. A couple of hints... DO NOT UNBOLT THE INTAKE. It is
actually not bad, take off the valve cover, timing chain, exhaust,
unbolt the rocker assembly, pull the head and examine, throw it all back
together. IF I were you I would go ahead and change the rings and rod
bearings while you are in there, as well if the timing chain and
tensioner. For about a hundred bucks or so you can have the head
machined, i.e. valve job. This might be a good idea depending on the
condition of the head.
Brandon Miller
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 31 Jul 1997 20:13:34 -0500
From: Chris & Nicki Yorke
Subject: Blown Head Gasket ?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
>
> ----------
> From: Thomas Olenio
> Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 9:11 AM
> To: Rosenber; 'mail@UUCP '
> Subject: Blown Head Gasket ?
>
> Hello,
>
>
>
>
> I have heard that sometimes timing chains can rub a hole in the case
> of the 22R engine and cause this problem. Any truth to that story?
>
> Are there any common problems or reasons (other than just high mileage
> and wear) that the 22R engine has in regards to the problem I
> describe?
>
> Looking forward to getting my Toyota back on the road.
>
> Tom
> tolenio@world.std.com
Sounds like the left side guide has broken and then the chain rubbed a
hole in the timing cover. Pull the valve cover and look at the guide on
the right if you are looking at the front of the truck. If it is gone
there is a very good chance the chain has rubbed a hole in the cover.
Chris
yorke@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 26 Sep 1997 12:38:44 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: The other weird tick
To: Toy4x4@off-road.com
Rob Boyle wrote:
>
>>I had my timing chain replaced at exactly 124,000 miles!!! It was pretty
>>well stretched out, too. You have to drop the oil pan to do it which
>>makes for a lot of labor.
>
> Whats the real scoop on this? do you really have to pull the head to
> correctly install a timing chain, or can you JUST remove the oil pan to
> get the cover off? Jim, what do you do in the shop where you work? would
> you do the same on your own engine? This would make a huge difference on
> the hours involved!
I don't pull either the head or the oil pan, even on my own vehicles.
The real concern is damaging the head gasket where it seals the top of
the timing cover and the oil pan gasket on pre-8/84 22Rs that use a
composition or cork oil pan gasket. I have used a section cut from a new
oil pan gasket to seal where the oil pan meets the timing cover on the
earlier engines with some success. On say a Ford or Chev***** engine,
this section is supplied with a timing cover gasket set.
Removing the head certianly makes the task easier but it does add to
teardown and reassembly. Chris Yorke and I both recommend that the area
where the head,block, and timing cover meet, be thouroughly cleaned of
all oil and old gasket material, and a light bead of RTV run where these
components are joined.
On the later 22Rs that use a silicone glue to seal the oil pan, just
clean off the old glue and reapply new as per the shop manual's
suggestions.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 04 Oct 1997 17:01:06 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Timing Chain replacement
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> I know we have beat this to death, but I am finally going to install the
> LC engineering double roller conversion kit next week (it has been sitting
> in a box for month or two now waiting until I had some time). Anyways,
> What do I need to do it?
Good selection of hand tools.
(I have an 87 4runner with a 22RE) Do I have to take off the head?
No.
Did y'all take of anything besides the radiator and fan to make it
easier? The fan must come off. Removal of the radiator not only makes
for easy access but prevents damage to the radiator.
Can you take off the front grill easily so that it is a straight shot?
This won't help much. Removing the splash pan helps a bunch to access
the crank pulley and oil pan bolts (you need to remove the two front pan
bolts to free the chain cover).
If I don't take off the head or the pan, how exactly do I seal up
those areas. Use liberal amounts of RTV. Don't over do it, just use
enough to seal up the joints.
If I do take off the head what should everything look like underneath??
An engine :-).
(I mean how can I tell if things are worn or need replacing?)
Oh. If you do remove the head, clean all of the carbon off of the piston
tops and from the combustion chambers. Inspect the surfaces of the head
and the block. Make sure they are perfectly clean before reassembly.
I have the haynes book and the Factory manual is on the way.
> I know there are a couple of how to's on the list but I was wondering if
> some of y'all could post how you did it so I have something to compare it
> to.
Use caution when pulling the timing cover off. Do not tear the head
gasket where it seals the top of the timing cover. There is a bolt in
the front of the head below the cam sprocket, usually covered in a pool
of oil. There is also a bolt on the backside of the block that secures
the timing cover. Be sure to remove this bolt or you'll never get the
cover off.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 09 Oct 1997 15:07:04 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Gaskets
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
s0baker@usuhsb.usuhs.mil wrote:
>
> Right now I am half way done with the LC engineering double roller conversion
> kit. Everything is going smoothly but now that I am putting everything
> back togther I have some questions with gaskets. The oil pump has a rubber
> o ring so that means I don't have to do anything but torque the bolts properly
> and it should seal. Right?
Yes. Make sure the o-ring seats properly in the groove or ot will not
seal and will interfere with the oil pump.
The water pump has one of those paper looking cut out gaskets. Do I
need to put anything on that. I mean should I use a thin layer of RTV
on both sides?
Yes. Use the non-hardening RTV.
Does that also apply to the timing chain cover?
Yes, unless you want it to leak. Pay special attention to the areas
around the water outlets on the cover/block as well. Run a bead of
sealer were the cylinder head and block meet, where the timing cover
joins them. Clean all traces of RTV from the oil pan and reapply a thin
coat of new RTV to the pan as specified in the repair manual.
Also, what is the best way to get all the old gasket material off?
Use a gasket removing compound (spray) like the kind made by Permatex.
Get a good, sharp gasket scraper.
Also, the timing chain is extremely tight. I called LC and they said
that is how it is supposed to be. It touches the dampeners. Am I
forgetting something that will make my engine go BOOM?
It should be tight when the tensioner is fully extended.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 9 Oct 1997 22:20:12 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Gaskets
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
On the rubber O ring - give it a quick "coat" of motor oil before you
install it
For gasket removal - Permatex makes a spray on gasket remover. Spray
it on - let it soak (about 1 can of soda/beer should be enuff time
to soak) and then scrape away CAREFULLY - I use an old credit card -
it wont scratch the alum (but it will dent yer wallet).
For the paper seals - I've had good luck coating them in Permatex 300
- its a brush on "tar" like substance - helps em stay pliable and
sealant.
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 21:26:56 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Timing and Knocking
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> I don't know if I timed the crankshaft sprocket to the cam properly.
How do you do that?
The chain will have bright links where the cam and crank sprockets are
indexed. The cam sprocket has timing mark (dot) just below the gear
tooth that indexes the bright link on the chain.
The crank is the same set-up.
The cam is at TDC when the sprocket pin is at the 12 o'clock position.
Bright link (or links) will be on the top circle of the sprocket.
The crank is at TDC when the woodruf key is at the 12 o'clock position.
The bright mark on the chain for the crankshaft will be on the bottom of
the crank sprocket. Got it?
> I jack the engine up (as per shop manual instructions) to get to the oil
> pan. I had the jack on the transmission. Could that have screwed anything
> up?
I doubt it.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:23:03 -0500
From: "Michael Greenway"
Subject: Blown Head Gaskets on IFS 4-Runners /reply
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Who ever said that you need to drop the IFS unit to remove pan for a timing
chain replacement must like to turn wrenches. You can replace the chain
without pulling the head or pan. As far as miles are concerned you may not
need a engine rebuild. I bought my 86 4-runner with 175K miles. At 190K I
replaced the chain without pulling head or pan. At 223K I had to pull head
to install a helicoil. The exhaust manifold was leaking and stud was
stripped. This was at rear of engine and could not get drill to it. You
could still see hatch marks on cylinders. Installed new valveseals while
head was off. The truck now has 271K on it and uses a quart of oil in 2000
miles. Knock on wood, I'm going for 300K (will do another timing chain
replacement). I know this may be a isolated case. My 84 Celica had 190k on
it (original owner) before I replaced chain (once again without yanking head
or pan). The chain was extremely worn but it was my first new car and it
never gave me problems. I sold it at 207K and it never used oil. I
often put 2000 miles a week on it so oil changes sometimes varied 5-8k
miles. Go figure. I drove that car so hard it had a groove wore in the
EFI throttle body from being racked open most all the time. I should of
never sold that car but needed the money to pay for my paint job on my
FJ40.
Oh what a feeling!!!
Michael Greenway TLCA #3000
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:04:54 -0800
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Timing Chain Cover Stuck
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Greg S. Francis wrote:
>
> I am in the middle of replacing the timing chain on my 22re, due to a
> broken guide. I have read several accounts of people managing to remove
> the chain cover without pulling the head OR dropping the oil pan. I am
> curious what trick you used to accomplish this. I have removed all the
> bolts from the timing cover (yes, even the hidden ones), and cannot get it
> to budge. It is pretty well sandwiched between the head and pan. Also, if
> this does not work, how far do I have to drop the pan. I have a Rancho 3"
> lift, will I have to remove the diff (IFS)?
> Thanks for any help.
Have you removed the two bolts from oil pan? what about the bolt from
the cylinder head into the timing cover, the one that is located in
front of the distributor drive gear? It is usually covered in engine
oil.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:30:17 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Timing Chain Cover Stuck
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
if i remember correctly from the last tim i did this,there is a bolt
behind the upper t-chain gear.otherwise,give the cover an education with
a prybar and wiggle it out.when i did it i pulled the head.i am
wondering about how well everything seals back up after,jim?
darren floen
-------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 08 Jan 1998 17:12:15 -0800
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Timing Chain Cover Stuck
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Don't pry too hard, you will snap the dowel pin holes on the cover.
If you carefully clean all surfaces and apply a light coat of RTV (the
grey type works best) to all ungasketed areas, it should not leak at
all.
Replace the oil pump o-ring while you are at it.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 19:28:02 -0600 (CST)
From: gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg S. Francis)
Subject: Timing Chain Cover Stuck
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>Have you removed the two bolts from oil pan? what about the bolt from
>the cylinder head into the timing cover, the one that is located in
>front of the distributor drive gear? It is usually covered in engine
>oil.
>
>--
I have removed all of the bolts. I think it just needs to be wiggled free.
It it a good idea to loosen the pan? I would think that once you have
loosened it, it would be necessary to remove it, clean it, and reapply RTV
in order for it to seal correctly.
- -Greg
Greg S. Francis
University of Texas @ Austin
School of Architecture
gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
TLCA Member #5558
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:35:42 -0600
From: Clif Moyers
Subject: Stuck Timing Chain Cover
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
One other potentially overlooked bolt resides behind the water pump.
This one is a short bolt that goes through a tang in the front of the
block and threads into the back of the timing chain cover. This one is
every bit as illusive as the much published one below the cam sprocket
(drowning in oil!).
Make a note of the length of each cover bolt and where it came from.
There must be 5 different lengths!
Clif
- --
Clif Moyers
(cmoyers@mickey.cti-pet.com)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:19:27 -0600 (CST)
From: gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu (Greg S. Francis)
Subject: Stuck Timing Chain Cover
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
The culprit turned out to be a long bolt throught the oil pump casing that
was not identified in the manual as one to be removed. I found it by trial
and error. I checked the manual (factory) several times and it is
certainly not marked as a bolt to be removed! It cost me a couple hours of
tugging and head-scratching, but it's a done deal now. Thanks for all of
the help.
- -Greg
Greg S. Francis
University of Texas @ Austin
School of Architecture
gfrancis@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu
TLCA Member #5558
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:12:31 -0800 (PST)
From: Luke P Miller
Subject: Stuck Timing Chain Cover
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I guess if I had ben paying attention to this thread I could have told you
that little secret. I had the same problem in September while trying to do
my timing chain. And I'll agree, it certainly doesn't seem to be mentioned
in my factory manual either. I'm sure I invented several new dirty words
before and after figuring that bolt out.
Luke Miller
'85 4Runner
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:47:27 -0600
From: Clif Moyers
Subject: Timing Chain Cover Stuck
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
What about the short bolt through a tang on the side of the block into
the chain cover that is behind the water pump. It, like the one drowing
in oil under the cam sprocket, is quite illusive as well!
Also, measure each bolt and sketch where each goes!
Clif
Have you removed the two bolts from oil pan? what about the bolt from
the cylinder head into the timing cover, the one that is located in
front of the distributor drive gear? It is usually covered in engine
oil.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:19:20 -0800
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Timing Chain & Removing the Head
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
JC VR 4 wrote:
>
> I know that you all say that it is not necessary to remove the head in
> a 22RE (1993) when replacing the timing chain. I told this to a
> mechanic who specializes in toyotas and he said if you don't remove the
> head then it will leak. Is this true?
What will leak? The head gasket? The timing chain cover? Not true if you
use care and follow the manual's recomendation on where to seal the
timing cover, cylinder head, and block.
> I don't know too much myself about how engines work so I
> was going to have someone help me with the job. What parts will I
> need to replace other than the timing chain? Where other than a
> dealer can I go to buy these parts?
You can usually find the chain and related parts in a kit form. This kit
includes the chain, guides, tensioner, seals, and gaskets. The
aftermarket brand sold by most Toyota dealers (because the kit is quite
a bit less expensive than the piecing the parts together from Toyota) is
made by Bryco. It is a good quality kit that contains all of the needed
parts. I have heard of many auto parts stores that carry Bryco as well.
Be sure to replace the o-ring seal on the oil pump to timing cover
flange too. Odds are, if you fail to replace it, that it will leak 15
minutes after you fininsh the timing chain job.
Jim Brink
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:36:22 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Ready Sleeve
Speedy,or Ready sleeve:
Its just a sleeve that you hammer onto your front pulley to restore the
seal surface.It comes with a driver. Be sure to peel the lip off after
installation
I just recently used one on my truck to get the front seal to stop
leaking. There was no groove on my pulley,but it wouldn't stop
leaking. Use only Genuine Toyota seals. Get the sleave at Napa. I got mine
from a bearing supply house. They are costly, but far better than messing
around for 8 months trying to stop a leak.
Did i mention using only Toyota seals?
Darren
------------------------------
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