A/C Installation
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 13:03 -0600 (MDT)
From: "JC Nordyke"
Subject: early-mid 1980s Factory Air: Stateside or Japanese?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:35:58 -0700
> From: James Brink
> Subject: early-mid 1980s Factory Air: Stateside or Japanese?
> To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> The new trucks, largely the ones optioned with A/C (usually in a package
> with other options), are already equipped with the A/C from the factory
> (Fremont, CA). Same holds true for the last-generation "RN" trucks. If
> the truck was destined for A/C and the sticker reflects that, the units
> were usually shipped separately with the vehicles, un-installed. A lot
> of times the units were installed at the dealer after the vehicle was
> purchased by the ultimate consumer--not prior to. For the most part, any
> under-dash wiring is there for the addition of A/C. The amplifier,
> evaporator core, vsv's, idle-up actuator, switch(es) are provided
> separately in a kit. The factory A/C units come in a big box with all of
> the goodies needed (except refrigerant). Although time consuming, the
> kits are pretty much "bolt-in", the most difficult part being the
> cooling unit (containing the evaporator) as the dash pad and glovebox
> need to be removed for access.
> - --
> Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
> Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles
> brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
> Stock 4.10 gears
> Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
>
> ------------------------------
A year and a half ago, I put AC in my '86 Pickup. TAP Auto Recyclers
sold me the unit. Everything was there. I must agree that the cooling
unit, was the hardest to put in. I didn't have the dash pad off, but
I did take out the glovebox. I was amazed at how easy the whole thing
really was. It took me about a total of 8 hours, but that was my first
time for an AC unit. Two tips if you do happen to attempt this. One,
if you buy a unit out of a junkyard/recycler make sure that the cooling
unit was not inhabited by mice. This makes for a very unpleasent smell,
no matter how cool the air is, and when you run the heater it's even
worse. I had to soak mine in vinegar for about 24 hours, and then
spray about 1 can of Lysol in it. The second tip, is go for the new
O-rings on all of the fittings. If you can find metric O-rings, it
may be cheaper than going with Toyota ones, but if they leak, the AC
shop won't even charge it, and you will just have to go back and get
Toyota ones. Here's the catch, Toyota only sells them in packs, and
a pack has one of each size in them. If I remember right, you need
3 or 4 packs, and you don't use them all. Do it right the first time.
It cost me about $40 extra, because I had to go back to the AC shop,
after I had replaced all the O-rings. It was all bolt in, and it fit
great(factory engineered) It still runs colder than I can stand, and
is great on those long road trips. I get the same or better MPG on
the highway, and it's quieter.
JC Nordyke
jc.nordyke@mci.com
'86 Shortie Pickup '88 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Jul 1997 10:29:41 -0700
From: "Tommy J. Hebert"
Subject: AFTERMARKET AIRCONDITIONING
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
I just purchased a Toyota original A/C for my 90 truck with 134a for
$749. Call John & Phil's at 1-800-542-1516. I was really pleased with
their service.
It wasn't too bad to install myself but I would recommend getting the
A/C installation manual from Toyota. There are lots of little parts.
------------------------------
Posted by Tammy Fernandez on July 09, 1997 at 20:10:12:
In Reply to: Re: A/C refrigerent conversion posted by Kenn Klages on July 08, 1997 at 14:12:10:
Any time you open an a/c system the drier should be changed.
Just good maintenance.
-------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 23 Jul 1997 13:16:04 -0500
From: "Dean Hufstedler"
Subject: Air conditioning
To:
We just got the a/c going on my 1984 SR5 Xtracab 4X4. It works great, but
when the compressor came on the engine revved to 2200. We found the vacuum
throttle controller, but when we turned the throttle down, the compressor
went off and won't come on unless I turn it back up to about 1800 rpm.
What gives?
Huffy
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 20:02:18 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: AC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Kevin Watters wrote:
>
> I had my air conditioning compressor go bad and when I was changing it I
> noticed that it looked like metal shavings were in the output line. Am I
> going to have to change all the lines or flush them out?
Have the system flushed with compressed air or Nitrogen (preferably as
it does not attract moisture) and replace the receiver/drier (about
$45.00) The rec./drier acts as a filter and any metal shavings that are
in the system will be trapped in it. It is cheap insurance and easy to
replace this part yourself, assuming the system has been evacuated.
Replace the o-ring seals at each of the two fittings at the rec/drier as
well.
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R/M5
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 32"BFG All-Terrains
(brinkjm@earthlink.net) LockRight/4.10 Gears
********************************************************************
TLCA# (Still Waiting)
FOMR
MRVMA/DESERT EXPLORERS
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:19:17 -0500
From: Steve Capuano
Subject: AC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Check your metering device and make sure its not clogged also. Like Jim
said change the Drier.
DO NOT introduce compressed air into your system. I am an AC mechanic and
know for a fact that compressed air is wet AND WILL harm your system. If
you must use compressed air be sure that you evacuate with a nitrogen purge
or Triple Evacuate.
Triple Evacuate: pull system down to 29" Hg for 15 minutes. Break vacuum
with dry Nitrogen, pressurize to 10 psi. for 1 hour. Blow Nitrogen and re
evacuate as before.
This repeated 3 times insures that the moisture introduced is removed and if
any froze in the system the pressurization will melt the ice to be removed
the second and third times. The last evacuation period should be 15-60
minutes.
Good Luck
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
capuano@hypercon.com 31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
Rear LockRight K&N filter
NRA lifetime member Dynomax 2.5" cat back Synthetic all around
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:09:00
From: Barney McNamara
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
After riding with me in the truck to camp up in Humboldt last weekend, my
wife decided we need to put AC in the old beast. I looked into it a bit,
read the old posts on the list, and investigated what I could find on the
net. I have found that I can get a complete kit from a junkyard for $350.
I figure to replace the O-rings on all the hoses that are disconnected,
and probably swap in a new receiver/drier from the dealer during the
installation. I haven't priced this stuff yet, but expect another $50.
I have a mechanic buddy who will leak-test and charge the system with
R12 for $150. Total $550.
I would prefer to go with 134A, but the costs of new aftermarket systems
for the '83 are high. I got a quote for a complete system for $900, then
was told that was a wholesale cost, and I'd need to find a shop to sell it
to me, and install it. I found a place willing to do the whole job for
$2500. I called the place somebody else suggested at $700, but they don't
sell kits older than '84.
I also investigated a conversion of the old system to 134A and found mixed
recommendations. One web site is pushing a "drop in" R12 replacement,
called Autofrost. It is a blend of several materials, and claims to be
the best. Though it is not a straight drop in, you need to change fittings
may need to change hoses and drier, etc. I talked to a shop that would
convert the R12 system to 134A for $700, parts and labor. They would change
the hoses and flush the system, then recharge with 134A, they thought the
compressor would be OK. I talked to a hose shop that would build custom
hoses for $80-100 for each flexible section replaced. Then I'd have to
find somebody to test and charge with either 134A or other.
The EPA web site has a long discussion of 134A replacement, and claims that
new experience suggests that old hoses may be OK due to impregnation with
R12. It seems that may cause the hoses to become immune to the 134A
compatibility problems. They do recommend changing O-rings to neoprene.
They are vague on compressor compatibility. This leaves too many unanswered
questions.. Is the Toyota system OK for 134A?
The EPA web site also shows lists of factory upgrades available from dealers.
Many manufacturers are selling conversion kits for their vehicles. Toyota
is not. They seem to be ignoring the whole issue, or else know that their
old equipment has compatibility problems.
Anyway, I am looking for expert opinions, and turned to the group I know
has all the answers.
Thanks for getting this far.
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 21:42:29 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Stick with r12 untill there is a better kit, if you have any questions
on the install let me know. The only modifications you will need to do
are drill three holes in the cab but the locations are allready
indented. Maybe the next time you need to get your ac charged the kit
will be cheaper but it is much more economical at the moment for r12.
My only comments are to make sure that the ac kit is from an 83, 2 wheel
or 4 wheel because there are subtle differences, I found out the hard
way.
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
Brandon,
Thanks for the response. I had come to the same conclusion, but thought
somebody might have done something different.
So you think the 2 wheel drive truck setup is the same?
I've already found a kit locally from an '84, but I don't know if it
would really fit. What was your bad experience?
Barney
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:50:32 -0700
Subject: Re: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #334
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,6-12,14-15,17,19-20,22-23,25-28
From: frebie@juno.com
Barney
I just converted my 1986 4x4 toyota R12 system over to R134A. I'm
using my standard nippon compressor, hoses, lines evaporator,condenser
and expansion valve. I bought a new R134A drier, two compressor adapter
schrader valve fittings and two new new new new high and low pressure
flex lines and o-rings that are compatible with R134A. The cost for
these items are as follows
Drier $28.00
Adapter fittings $9.99
Lines $ 39.99 ea from Toyota
O-rings (green) $3.99
Make sure you replace the high and low pressure lines, I tried to use my
old ones and they burst during servicing.
The rest of the system can be bought used at a junk yard for approx.
$125, if you want
you can buy new from parts house for $200 (evaporator,condenser and
liquid line)
After you have installed the system it"s cheaper and safer to take the
vehicle and have it oiled, vacuum pump and R134A serviced.
I hope this helps some, if you need more info contact me at
Frebie@juno.com
Freebie
-----------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 09:31:07 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Sun, 27 Jul 1997, Barney McNamara wrote:
> After riding with me in the truck to camp up in Humboldt last weekend, my
> wife decided we need to put AC in the old beast. I looked into it a bit,
> read the old posts on the list, and investigated what I could find on the
> net. I have found that I can get a complete kit from a junkyard for $350.
> I figure to replace the O-rings on all the hoses that are disconnected,
> and probably swap in a new receiver/drier from the dealer during the
> installation. I haven't priced this stuff yet, but expect another $50.
> I have a mechanic buddy who will leak-test and charge the system with
> R12 for $150. Total $550.
>
Usually, you just need to change the O-rings, new reciever dryer and
evacuate all the old R-12. Then add ester oils. The R-134 is a little
higher pressure but most systems can easily handle this. I would really
doubt that you couldn't get a conversion kit with a few O-rings etc for
less than $100. So, while you are installing your A/C, you could do the
conversion. My A/C from my 1985 4Runner SR5 is running fine with R12. It
was nice and cold yesterday driving back from yet another camping trip. I
would avoid all R12 drop in replacements. I don't know why to avoid them
but my uncle advised me against them. He works for a nationwide parts
remanufacturer. He flies around giving seminars on how to install the
parts.
Dr. Karl Bellve
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-3785
Fax : (508) 856-1840
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 11:48:49 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> It seems that may cause the hoses to become immune to the 134A
>compatibility problems. They do recommend changing O-rings to neoprene.
>They are vague on compressor compatibility. This leaves too many unanswered
>questions.. Is the Toyota system OK for 134A?
Well, I drove to work about 2 hours ago in my nicely cooled stock parts '85
4-runner with 134A... I guess it's been about a month now since the
conversion, and all is well... no problems yet. I change NOTHING as far as
the hoses or O-rings or even compressor goes. New oil, new refrigerant is
all it took... Since you are installing from scratch, you have a leg up on
me. I'd install new o-rings (as with any a/c install), use the same hoses,
install a new dryer, and flush the compressor with oil that's compatable with
134a, then assemble the unit, evac, pressure test for leaks, evac again, then
charge & enjoy!
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 16:41:10 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
To: Barney McNamara
Subject: Re: AC Install
Barney,
I first put in the AC because a buddy totaled his 80, or was it 81?
anyway, I wanted it to be factory so I bought the toyota dash controls
from a yard (about $50), but they didn't wire up the same. I looked at
factory manual and the wiring is different so I bought a evaporator
(Toyotautomart, about $40). Of course now the fittings were different
so I needed new hoses and a new condensor, more $. Now the fittings on
my compressor were different but the ends are interchangable so I bought
the new ends. I also bought a new dryer and o-rings from the dealer
(they are real idiots, bring the old o-rings or else they WILL give you
the wrong sizes, they did it twice to me and I even brought in my old
o-rings.) Finally it was time for a charge, the compressor wouldn't
kick on so I had to go get a different compressor. Try #2, I blew a
hose this time. Third time's a charm right? Actually it was and it is
nice and chilly (I am running the wrong size o-rings forced on too). I
faced the same 134a dilemma but the guy who charged my ac said that
there is not a kit for toyota, you could try to change the oil but the
system was not designed for that kind of pressure, no matter what people
say. I don't remember the exact prices but here is a ball park guess:
dryer.......$50
condensor, hoses and evaporator (the three rubber gromets too).....$50
compressor...........$50
hole saw bit (I believe 17 mm but I can check for you).........$10
pressure test......$30
R12............$100
I did a lot of talking to get these prices, most places (except TAP)
will come down on their prices. I would suggest Toyautomart, Mike used
to work there but I guess he went solo now. I can get some names and if
you ask for them you might get a better deal, when are you going to make
the purchase? If I remember correctly you live near pismo, have you
called the yards in Paso? I got some stuff there and I think there are
some in Santa Maria. I think it is always best to buy used parts in
person that way if there is a problem you know who you bought it from.
If you have any more questions let me know. Oh yeah there is a sensor
that threads into the intake neck (with a small wiring harness) as well
as the idle pick up dash pot and doohickey. I don't know anyone around
with a toy the same year as mine so it was hard, I would suggest looking
at another otherwise ask me. One more thing, some of the parts are
cheaper from the dealer (new!) than the yards, call around. Everything
plugs into the existing harness but it is quite involved, good luck and
think cold.
Dont forget all of the new ac hoses(ventillation ducts?) under the dash
(the plastic ones to get air out of the side vents) If I think of any
thing else I'll let you know...
Yes, the 2 wheel drive is identical, the difference with 84 is the
sending unit on the neck, this is the only thing I bought from TAP and
it didn't fit, of course they wouldn't take it back either so I bought
one from the dealer. I would guess the ventilation and controls are
also different. You can run the ac off of a toggle switch but I wanted
the right controls, nothing hoaky. I would personally pass on the 84.
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
------------------------------
Brandon,
Sounds like your installation was quite an experience. I appreciate all
the feedback, and agree that the best way to buy parts is face-face.
I live in Santa Cruz, work in Los Gatos - near San Jose. I have a favorite
yard that I frequent. They have the '84 kit, and are looking for an '83
kit now. They want $350 for the kit, the same as TAP quoted me, and I
know the guys, I've spent a couple $K in there by now.
I'll let you know when I need more help.
Thanks - Barney
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:51:30 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
To: Barney McNamara
Subject: Re: AC Install
Barney,
Just curious but does your fan (heater, etc) come out the side vents now
or just the middle? Mine was just in the middle and so the ac
conversion was also great because I now get heat (and cold) out of the
side vents too. If you want anything from Sac I'll be in Monterey next
weekend...
--
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon,
Yes, my fan controls only the center vent. I get air flow through the
sides only when moving. I am curious to see how the A/C box will attach
into the existing system. I expect I'll figure it out when I see it. I
have the factory manual for my truck (our trucks) and it shows some of
the detail, but not all of it.
I don't need anything I know from Sac, unless you can pick up a state
tax refund for me ;-) If your passing through Santa Cruz, give me a call
(408)427-1817, maybe we could meet face-to-face. I'm going to lunch today
with Scott Wilson, Nick Krest, and a few others from the list.
I'm planning a 4x4 camping trip to the Sierras next weekend, Aug 9-11.
All the guys I'd planned to go with have backed out, so I'm open to new
plans and locations. If nothing else comes up, I want to go back to a
place I passed through last summer - above Caples Lake near Carson Pass.
Got any time for a trip?
Barney
-------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 18:32:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leroy Andersen
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Barney McNamara wrote:
> I found a place willing to do the whole job for
>$2500. I called the place somebody else suggested at $700, but they don't
>sell kits older than '84.
When I was considering buying a non-A/C '83 before I found my '85, I called
Polar Bear Air here in Sacramento. They quoted me an aftermarket replacement
with R134 that installs in a day for around $850 or $900 total.
~~~
Leroy Andersen 1985 SR5 Short Bed 4x4/22RE
Citrus Heights, CA 138K Miles, RS9000's, 4.10's
andrsen@ns.net Rancho Springs/Add-a-leaf
http://www.ns.net/~andrsen/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 22:13:42 -0500
From: Steve Capuano
Subject: AC Install - long
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I
>would avoid all R12 drop in replacements. I don't know why to avoid them
>but my uncle advised me against them. He works for a nationwide parts
>remanufacturer. He flies around giving seminars on how to install the
>parts.
Dont take me wrong here, but I am an A/C mechanic and we have been in tune
with refrigeration companies that have been using drop in replacements and
there havenot been any problems. I talked to a guy last Friday and he has
mixed 12 and Freeze 12 together and has had no ill results in an ice machine
for over a year.
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
capuano@hypercon.com 31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
Rear LockRight K&N filter
NRA lifetime member Dynomax 2.5" cat back Synthetic all around
------------------------------
To: barney@flowpoint.com
Date: Tue, 29 Jul 1997 20:37:42 -0700
Subject: Re: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #334
X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0,5-9
From: frebie@juno.com
Barney
All the parts you get from a junk yard need to be leak tested. I
tested all my hardware by plugging up one end and putting 8 to 10 psi
in the other with my air compressor and submerged the unit in my garage
sink filled with water. It worked just fine for that function, that way
you know that the unit doesn't have any holes/ leaks. Good luck
Freebie
------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 11:11:05 -0700
From: Barney McNamara
Subject: A/C Install
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, frebie@juno.com, Nick.Krest@nickkrest.batnet.com
Well, I'm now travelling in cool air, of course it rained yesterday
and is cloudy and overcast this morning, but it will warm up soon.
I had the A/C installed yesterday!!!! I ended up taking Nick's (and
every A/C pro I talked to) advice and bought a new kit and had it
professionally installed - $675 parts, $300 labor, $55 tax = $1030.
The job looks OK - the wiring is sloppy, the hoses are protected by
flimsy one-sided sticky foam tape (will fall off first time in car
wash). But the compressor is new and well secured, the condenser is
mounted so-so on a couple of sheet metal screws and angle iron. The
drier is mounted on a bracket and securely jammed between the body
and the battery.
I can fix the wiring (already did half of it.) And the hoses I can
reroute and tie down securely. They didn't seem to realize this is
an off-road vehicle. I'll have to look at securing the condenser and
the drier a little better.
They drained the PAG oil from the compressor, and refilled with esther
oil and then charged it with R12. This was due to the small size of
the condenser, and the fact the shop owner thought R134A would not
work well due to the small size. They put the wrong sticker on the
hood, which would have been a mess if I hadn't known to ask the
question. They are sending me a new sticker.
There is no temp control directly on the A/C, he said to use the old
temp control to preheat the air before it goes through the evaporator?
There is a single switch, which in conjunction with the fan switch,
turns on the compressor. There is also a variable resistor with a
thermocouple attached which controls the compressor, he had it on full
cold. (This control is mounted on a jagged-edged bracket at shin height
on the air box and will have to be moved/covered/smoothed.)
The side vents have been ducted to the air box, and the old vent
intakes plugged behind the dash. Now I can use the fan to blow air
through the side vents.
There is no connection to the unused dash pot on the carburetor, which I
thought would be used to increase the idle speed when the compressor
is on.
Does all sound about right? I feel like I've been taken to the cleaners
but I didn't know exactly what to expect, and I've never seen a similar
job.
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
______________________________________________________________
------------------------------
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