Air Compressor - Chuffer
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 01:19:55 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Air compressors
For a great compressor make an adaptor to screw in place of a spark
plug and run an air line from the adaptor to your tyre. Start the engine
and pump up the tyres. If you have EFI you can also remove the wire to
the injector. While this trick is not new, I had long forgotten it till
I saw it again today. What jogged my memory was an old Toyota 3B diesel
removed from a BJ40, missing one glowplug . In place of the missing plug
was an adaptor with a tap and air line fitting. The adapter now lives in
my toolbox.
James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:42:58 -0400
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Re: Air compressors
You really shouldn't run the engine like this,just crank it.You can blow
a tire pretty fast if you run the engine.This method should be
considered as a temporary fix only,and the tires should be deflated and
inflated with fresh air asap.Been there,done that.
Darren
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Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 19:26:07 -0600
From: "David Eggleston"
Subject: Re: Air compressors
I would imagine that this would be strictly a temporary fix as pumping an
air/fuel mixture into the tires would have to be quite flammable (although
not necessarily more than off the shelf fix-a-flat products).
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Date: Sat, 16 May 1998 00:34:34 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Re: Air compressors
Tom Pechkovsky wrote
>Ok I have a stupid question.!! I have heard of this before, is there no
>problem with the engine running minus one cylinder?
Not really its just like having a dud plugwire
Darren Floen Wrote
>You really shouldn't run the engine like this, just crank it. You can
>blow a tire pretty fast if you run the engine. This method should be
>considered as a temporary fix only, and the tires should be deflated and
>inflated with fresh air
Yep the tyre goes up quick especially with a diesel. If you have EFI
petrol just drop off the wire from the injector that way you have no
spark on no fuel in one cil. Just an option to have a sparkplug to air
hose fitting in the toolbox. However those with Diesel or fuel injected
engines can use it all the time.
James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:45:18 -0700
From: Barney McNamara
Subject: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
James wrote:
>For a great compressor make an adaptor to screw in place of a spark
>plug and run an air line from the adaptor to your tyre. Start the engine
>and pump up the tyres.
David responded:
>I would imagine that this would be strictly a temporary fix as pumping an
>air/fuel mixture into the tires would have to be quite flammable (although
>not necessarily more than off the shelf fix-a-flat products).
So, what is the consensus? Is air/fuel mixture a problem in a tire?
It seems to me that since tires burn so well by themselves, a little
fuel in them could not make them more dangerous. The amount of gas in
the mix is also so low that it wouldn't be a liquid problem, would it?
Could the gas affect the life of the tire by attacking the rubber?
This sounds like a great idea to me, even if the hose from the spark
plug adapter has a safety valve or regulator to release excess air
pressure. I have been looking for a good cheap solution to the problem
and since I own no air tools, any kind of tank seems like way too much
hassle, expense, and/or danger to carry around.
Opinions?
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
______________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:20:02 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
> So, what is the consensus? Is air/fuel mixture a problem in a tire?
Yes it is, your going to kill someone that way. Sure tires will burn if you
get them hot enough but with the proper mix of fule the next time the tires
is removed it's going to explode and kill the guy on pulling the tire.
Don't do it!
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://www.off-road.com/~geiger "ROKRUNR"
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 09:56:29 -0700
From: Scott Cousens
Subject: RE: Toyota 4x4 digest: V1 #855
Darren Floen writes:
>You really shouldn't run the engine like this,just crank it.You can blow
>a tire pretty fast if you run the engine.This method should be considered
>as a temporary fix only,and the tires should be deflated and inflated
>with fresh air asap.Been there,done that.
Hmm. Can you explain why?
We used to do this all the time for all our tires on the farm when I was
growing up with out any problems. Sure beat using the foot pump, especially
for tractor tires! Put the adapter in, start the car and let it idle, then
air up the tire. When full, unplug the tire and turn off the car. Wait a few
minutes to let the adaptor in the engine cool, replace spark plug. Done. And
no, letting it idle for a few minutes on 3 cylinders (carb) was not a
problem.
My only concern for not doing it now is EFI - the computer may get a bit
pissed at me for tampering with one of the spark plugs.
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 14:20:29 -0400
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Re: Toyota 4x4 digest: V1 #855
If you have to ask why its a bad idea to run a fuel/air mixture in a
tire,you shouldn't even be thinking about doing this.Chris Geiger made a
good point about the dangers to the tire repair man.This is an all too
real situation.There was a mobile repair man who's face was burned here
a few years ago by deflating a tire with a smoke in his mouth.Turns out
the tire was previously repaired with a FIX-O-FLAT type product.Turned
the tire into a small flame thrower.
Sure,people have done this with succes in the past,i have many times
myself.It is a temporary fix.People have gone over Niagra Falls in
barrels before and lived to tell about it,but that doesn't mean its a
safe practise.
Darren
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:42:16 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Re: Toyota 4x4 digest: V1 #855
Aaron Lung wrote:
>Are you folks serious? Riding on an ignitable
>gas-air mixture is asking for serious trouble...
It's not like someone just invented this yesterday, they've
been around for a long time ... They were called 'Chuffers'
... it isn't dangerous if you're not an idiot ... I'd be
more concerned about overinflating the tire and blowing it
up with air than the fuel/air mixture igniting ...
- jack
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:48:09 -0600
From: "David Eggleston"
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
Overall, I would say that this is a good, reasonably safe emergency fix. If
you have the means to shut off fuel flow to the cylinder it would make it
better. I guess with EFI trucks you can disconnect the electrical lead to
the appropriate cylinder. In my case, I run a Holley TBI on my V-8 with a
toggle switch under the hood. With the switch turned off, no power is
supplied to the fuel injection or the ignition. It was installed as a theft
deterrent, but it works nicely in this application too. If you do have to
pump an air/fuel mixture into the tires, advise the tire guy that is fixing
your leak (if that's the problem) as that is where the flammable mixture
could prove to be hazardous. As a former gas station mechanic, nothing was
scarier than have a highly flammable substance coming out of the tire when
you pull the valve core out. If I was a smoker...BOOM. As a ground rule, we
said no smoking during this operation, but carelessness can kill.
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:32:48 -1000 (HST)
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
Ok, maybe I'm missing something completely obvious... but if you turn off
ignition and fuel supply to all cylinders, doesn't the engine stop?
Wouldn't it make a lousy pump then? or do you use the starter to get the
air then?
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 17:06:59 -0500
From: "Steve C."
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
Barney McNamara wrote:
> So, what is the consensus? Is air/fuel mixture a problem in a tire?
> It seems to me that since tires burn so well by themselves, a little
> fuel in them could not make them more dangerous. The amount of gas in
> the mix is also so low that it wouldn't be a liquid problem, would it?
> Could the gas affect the life of the tire by attacking the rubber?
>
have any of you out there ever lit an oxy acet torch, get the flame
perfect, snuff it out by knocking the flame off the tip, fill up a can
or bottle, relight the torch, and put if close to the filled item?
Can we say a collective BOOM! thats exactly what you will be doing to
your tire. sure you may not have an open flame near the tire but all
you need is a small discharge of static electricity and you wont have to
worry about a flat tire any more....
ALSO, the fuel will attack the rubber.
- --
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 16:43:39 -0700
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
I carry one of these little spark plug tire inflators around with me. It
is made by Milton, the company that makes tire inflators, air chucks,
and fittings. It in NO WAY uses combustion gasses to inflate the tire.
The compression pressure is used to activate a check valve that draws
outside air in and that goes into the tire.
I don't use it for airing up, it is just there for emergencies.
- --
Jim Brink, Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 1986 Toyota Std. Bed 4WD
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:30:41 -0500
From: Robert Stein
Subject: Re: spark plug compressor
Just to through in my 2 cents, My Dad's had such a set-up as long as I
can remember < I'm 39> and we used to use it quite often with NO
problems at all. NEVER had a tire BLOW up or explode and I/we never
noticed any premature tire wear. Don't know how well a 4 cyl will run on
3, but we used his in an inline 6 cyl with no problems. It not only
worked , but worked VERY well when there was no quick access to a
compressor. "I" personally thing such a set-up is a great addition to
any emergency tool kit.
Just my 2 cents ,,,,,
Robert
Robert Stein rjstein@lawtonok.net `85 SR5 X-Tra Cab
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:09:31 -0700
From: "Roger Brown P.E."
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
I think these have been around for a while. Also known as "chuffers" fromt
the sound they make. I saw a Jeep use one to air up at a local off-road
park once.
- --
Roger Brown, P.E. mailto:rogerb@sgi.com
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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:12:05 -0700
From: "Roger Brown P.E."
Subject: Re: Spark plug air - was Air compressors
Here's a thread from the off-road list:
>Fuel in the tire was never a problem
>as the vacuum in the intake manifold was much higher than that
>developed in the doner cylinder.
Nope.
>The part that screws into the spark
>plug hole has a one way inlet valve. It opens when the piston drops
>down, allowing air to be drawn into the cylinder via this opening, and
>then the spark plug hole. When the piston starts up the valve is closed
>by the air pressure, and the air is forced out via the hose.
Nope.
The check valve doesn't allow any interaction with air in the cylinder, it
draws outside air and uses the compression to push the valve and deliver it
to your tire, there is no way you can get gas in your tire.
I paid $11.95 for my "Chuffer" (yes, that's what they're called).
- --
Roger Brown, P.E. mailto:rogerb@sgi.com
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Date: Sun, 17 May 1998 23:43:26 -0400
From: "Purnrgy"
Subject: Re: Toyota 4x4 digest: V1 #857
Wait a few
minutes to let the adaptor in the engine cool, replace spark plug. Done. And
no, letting it idle for a few minutes on 3 cylinders (carb) was not a
Never remove your spark plugs from an aluminum cylinder head until the motor
has completely cooled... (doing this will cause stripped plug holes, the
aluminum seems to "stick:" to the spark plug threads..
cast iron heads are less likely to have this problem... I used compressor
from an 81 celica plumbed to a 7 gallon tank and cant say enough about it
(use it everyday ) check out the cheap tricks section on my page for
details.
Jimmyz Mud-Toy
82 4WD L.B.
purnrgy@quancon.com
http://www.geocities.com/baja/6397/
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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 10:39:59 -0700
From: Barney McNamara
Subject: Spark Plug Air - the test
The Spark Plug tire filler.
What a great idea, I have been looking into the alternatives for refilling
tires in the field after airing down for a day of off-roading. They all
seemed to expensive, too slow, or just too inconvenient for me to bother
with until James from down under mentioned the spark plug air adapter.
It seemed so simple and cheap, I figured it was worth a try. A few more
comments from the list included concern over the explosive quality of the
air fuel mixture from the engine, and the mention of the commercial
Chuffer, which made the device seem even more likely to be my answer.
I decided to build one and run a few tests to see what its performance
might be like. I started by getting out my vice, 3 pound sledge, and
a few chisels to hollow out a spark plug. I had a couple old plugs
from a VW bug that I hadn't touched in years. Those are nice for this
project because the threaded section is much shorter, and there is a lot
less ceramic to bash out then the regular 22R plug. The first one I
worked on ended up with bashed threads, making it useless, the second
ended up much better.
Then a run to OSH, and a good look at air fittings and pipes. I ended
up with a 1/4" NPT threaded nipple, about 1 1/2 inches long. I filled
the hollow spark plug with JB Weld, and pushed the nipple in, leaving
one threaded end sticking put the back of the spark plug. I unclogged
the hole in the nipple before the epoxy set, and let it sit overnight
to harden.
Sunday morning, I removed #1 spark plug from the engine, and installed
my threaded adapter. My first test was to find out how volatile the
air fuel mixture actually is. My plan was to fill a balloon from the plug
and hold it over a match to see if it would generate flames. I enlisted
some help, my son held the balloon over the air hose, and I cranked the
engine. We filled the balloon without starting the engine, because we only
needed a few puffs (chuffs?) We noticed that the mixture puffed out, but
sucked right back in on the engine downstroke, no problem, by pinching
the neck of the balloon, we were able to make a valve, and capture a
few puffs in the balloon. To be safe, we taped the balloon to the end of
a broom stick before we held it to the match. My son-in-law, (a CDF
fire fighter) lit a candle and stood back. My daughter, soon to graduate
from UCSD with a BS in Engineering came out to witness the experiment.
I placed the balloon over the match. After a few seconds, the match
popped the balloon, and to our surprise, there was no ball of flame.
The air fuel mixture is not as volatile as natural gas or acetylene, it
is mostly air, and does not burn unless compressed in the cylinder of an
internal combustion engine and ignited by a spark. OK - the stuff is at
least safe to deal with.
The next test required another trip to OSH, this time for a quick release
nipple and junction so I could attach a coiled air hose I borrowed from a
buddy to run to an old tire to check for speed and pressure from the
plug adapter. (The former test was run with a piece of fuel line jammed
over an adapter that ran to the balloon.) Setting up the second test
brought an interesting fact to light. The head and exhaust manifold are
very hot on an engine which has been warmed up, not to mention the spark
plug. This is not news to anyone familiar with working on engines, it is
just another fact to deal with when thinking about a quick way to refill
tires. I got the adapter back into the plug hole, this time with the quick
release nipple screwed onto the end of the threaded nipple in the plug. I
started the engine, and let it idle, puff-chuffing away. I measured the air
pressure in my old tire as 15 psi, and noted the time, so I could determine
just how fast my new tool would fill a tire. I jammed the chuck onto the stem
of the tire, and measured out 15 seconds. Then released the air hose, and
rechecked the tire pressure.... 10 psi. It seems the tire lost air into
the engine, just like the balloon.... I have yet to figure out how to make
a one-way valve to allow air to go into the tire, without it sucking right
back into the engine.
Conclusions -
Internal combustion engine air fuel mixture is not volatile at low
pressure. How high the pressure must be to become dangerous is left to
be investigated on another day.
Without a one-way valve, air will not pump out of the cylinder without an
equal suck back into the engine. The air pressure in the tire will not get
any higher than the pressure in the intake manifold above the intake
valve... (in retrospect all I can say is Duh).
Even with a valve, the volume of air moved by the piston out the cylinder
is only about 1/3 a balloon full per chuff. Thus, I expect this would be
just as slow as my $20 Costco cigarette lighter air pump. This runs about
1 minute per PSI, and actually works.
The engine is so hot that pulling a spark plug, installing an adapter, and
plugging on an air hose is a major PITA. Not to mention a greasy mess on
an old truck like mine.
I am sorry to say this design will not be prepared with pictures and
details for the off-road.com cheap tricks page. (Unless they are looking
for useless cheap tricks.)
______________________________________________________________
Barney McNamara JENNY - 83 Toyota Short Bed
( barney@flowpoint.com ) stock 22R motor ; 3" body lift
Santa Cruz, Ca. 8" alloy rims; 31" BFG A/Ts
homepage: http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/barnhome.htm
______________________________________________________________
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Final Update:
With a $6 one-way valve and a $3 spark plug - 1/4 NPT adapter, the chuffer
now works just fine. It fills a 31" tire from 10-30 psi in 4 minutes. And
if you revved the engine, it could be even faster. The problem remains with
the air-fuel mixture being pumped into the tire. I would prefer fresh air.
I carry the setup in case of emergency, but have yet to use it... I am still
looking for a Milton chuffer, I am just sorry they stopped making them.
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