Winches - Techniques and Mounting
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Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:57:05 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Winching Techniques
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
>Has anyone ever used a recovery strap (elastic or non elastic) as a tree
>protector ?
Yes.
>Why spend the money on a dedicated tree protector when something like a
>winch extension strap is going to do the same job ?
You can never have enough straps ...
>For a close up pull you could wrap the strap around the tree a few times ?
Yes, you can do this but it's a pain to get the lengths of the ends to come
out the same when you have to wrap it so many times. Spend the extra money
and get a short strap, if you wheel in muddy/steep sections much where
winching is almost a necessity you'll quickly learn that you can't have
enough straps to deal with all the situations you'll find you and your
buddies in. Like using 2 or 3 snatch blocks at one time to get a good
enough angle to keep from pulling a truck over to get it unstuck/up some
hill.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:25:16 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: winches
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
>Subject: WInches
>In looking through catalogs I noticed a significant price diference in
>electric and hydraulic winches. It looked like one could buy a hydraulic
>winch with the same pulling power as an electric for half the price.
>Although judging from the amount of catalog space given to each the
>electric is a better seller. What's the difference(s) and advantages of
>each?
Well, look at the TOTAL cost to put one in a Toy... I believe the Mile
Marker winch needs a more powerful hydraulic pump than what is in the
Toyota, so you'd need a new pump. $$$... I hear they're pretty slow too. On
the plus side, they work underwater (heh heh... if your engine does...) and
are much lighter, and don't need much in the way of wiring.
Electric winches are proven, work even when the engine isn't running (so
long as your battery has juice), and are generally faster.
- -- ej@blarg.net
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Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:30:52 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: winches
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> From: spoonee@juno.com (Mark B McColl)
>
> In looking through catalogs I noticed a significant price diference in
> electric and hydraulic winches. It looked like one could buy a hydraulic
> winch with the same pulling power as an electric for half the price.
> Although judging from the amount of catalog space given to each the
> electric is a better seller. What's the difference(s) and advantages of
> each?
>
just when the 'will not buy another toyota' thread was winding down... 8-)
okay, here's what i know so far, and you can fit them in a 32 ounce cup:
if the engine won't/can't run, electric will and hydro won't
hydro draws (and i think i saw) less than 10 amps at full load where the
electrics can draw 200-400 at full load.
hydros requires close proximity to the power steering pump but as long as
there's enough electrons flowing, you can even mount the winch in the rear
with electrics, without all the complicated plumbing required.
i believe 'off-road' or '4x4 mechanix' mag did a comparo between the two a
couple months ago. and i think, both were equal and each plus and minus
negates the other...
feel free to add/subtract or comment. as for me, i'm planning a good
electric 8000 pounder and have a setup for front and back mounts.
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:30:13 -0500
From: Chris & Nicki Yorke
Subject: WInches
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
You know I have always wondered why anyone would want a hydraulic winch.
If it is running off the power steering(mile marker) what happens when
the engine dies. I would think that if you are in that bad there is a
good possiblity that you dont want to run the engine or it wont run in
the first place. If that is the case what good is a hydraulic winch
gonna do you. At least with electric you can have another battery for
back up. Its not like you can just carry a spare engine to run your
winch. Just my .02 worth
Chris
yorke@bellsouth.net
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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 15:27:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Front receiver hitch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-10-06 12:22:13 EDT, you write:
>
>I'm pretty sure I'm going to get one of those multi-mount(WARN) or
>QM-series (RAMSEY) winches that attach front or rear using a receiver
>hitch. Has anyone come up with a good design for a front hitch? I'm not
>wild about warn or ramsey's designs because they reduce approach angle.
>I'm not running a stock front valance, so I hope to find/build a design
>that tucks up against the lower edge of the stock front bumper. I'll
>probably just take it to a welding shop, but I'd love to see any designs
>you all have come up with.
Someone around here took a Smittybuilt front tube bumper and welded the
receiver to the bottom of that. I have not seen it in action, but it
looks pretty sound.
>If there are any compelling reasons not to go with one of these portable
>style winches, I'd love to hear them too.
I always wondered about the ratings for the receiver components, and if
they would hold up to the forces of a large winch. Not sure if thaese
concerns are founded, but just letting you know.
David
DRM033@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 13:10:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Front receiver hitch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>If there are any compelling reasons not to go with one of these portable
>style winches, I'd love to hear them too.
I have heard that you may have problems using a 9000 lb with any kind of
side pull. The mounting point is likely to bend if you pull to
one side or the other.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 6 Oct 1997 19:58:49 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Front receiver hitch
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> From: Eric Johnson
>
> I'm pretty sure I'm going to get one of those multi-mount(WARN) or
> QM-series (RAMSEY) winches that attach front or rear using a receiver
> hitch. Has anyone come up with a good design for a front hitch? I'm not
> wild about warn or ramsey's designs because they reduce approach angle.
> I'm not running a stock front valance, so I hope to find/build a design
> that tucks up against the lower edge of the stock front bumper. I'll
> probably just take it to a welding shop, but I'd love to see any designs
> you all have come up with.
okay, here's the deal. one day i was just about to go to lunch when i
passed by a 2nd gen 4runner on campus with a built-up front end.
downey skids and prerunner guards. but the thing that caught my eye
was this one had a front hitch receiver with a winch in mind. why?
i saw that he had a crossmember that ran from where the tow hook is to
the other side of the frame. then he welded a brace that ran from
where the entry point of the hitch would be to a couple points down on
the frame, kinda like a triangle-brace - on both sides. i thought this
was a rather cool idea, something to negate the twisting forces that i
keep hearing about front hitch/winch designs. if you even winch
slightly to an angle, the twisting forces will either bend the hitch or
rip it off.
anyway, he had to cut out a portion of the front skidplate to fit the
hitch receiver through, but this is something i could live with. i
left the guy a business card but i never heard anything after that.
too bad i didn't whip out the digi-can to take a few snaps...
as for the approach angle, since picture this as a hitch coming out
right at the top of the skid plate, i'd doubt much that that he lost
too much. as for the departure, whatever you had before, is it. i
don't plan on having the winch mounted while wheelin' until i get
stuck...
> If there are any compelling reasons not to go with one of these portable
> style winches, I'd love to hear them too.
>
ask this guy:
everytime i wheel with him, he keeps ragging about how this kind of
winch attachment are for those who can't make up their mind. he has a
permannent mount on his jeep...
for me, i'm set on the front/rear hitch design. i'm thinking of a 8k
or 9k one from ramsey and custom doing the actual hitch up front and
the cradle for the winch.
superwinch has a mount for the front but it uses two hitch receivers on
both ends of the frame and the way it hooks up looks like a big U
shaped thingee...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 00:23:29 -0600
From: "Steve and Carole"
Subject: Front Reciever hitch
To: "Toyota Tech List"
You wrote:
I'm not wild about warn or ramsey's designs because they reduce approach
angle.
I'm not running a stock front valance, so I hope to find/build a design
that tucks up against the lower edge of the stock front bumper. I'll
probably just take it to a welding shop, but I'd love to see any designs
you all have come up with.
I have an '86 Toy 4Runner with a 4" Pro Comp lift. My Warn class III winch
on the front of my frame, it does hang down a bit, but I made it through
the Rubicon with no problems at all. I called around about having one
welded on for class III strength, price was about $300. So far my Warn
has done a great job, and for about $125, its been worth the price.
Steve
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Date: Tue, 7 Oct 1997 09:28:26 -0500 (CDT)
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Front Reciever hitch
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Maybe it's just me, but possibly putting 8 or 9,000
lbs. of pulling force on a single receiver hitch just
doesn't seem to safe to me,especially at an angle.
The best setup I've seen was
one where the guy had made a custom tray for the winch that
used two receivers. The guy said he started out with a an
aftermarket unit and bent it, granted he had a heavy truck,
a fullsize bronco. But unless you always wheel with Toyota
4runners and pickups, you'll one day have a big heavy chevy
or land cruiser at the end of the cable one day, I know I have
and wasn't happy with how it flexed my wimpy smittybuilt winch
bumper. Just something to consider.....
- jack
------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 14 Nov 1997 00:58:01 -0600 (CST)
From: "Bruce Burden"
Subject: winch or locker
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> So how much does a typical winch weigh?
>
80 or so lbs. No, although leaving it in the rear 100%
of the time can limit its usefulness. I am planning to install
a Predator bumper system on my truck. This allows my to
mount the winch front of back and not carry the winch when
I am not wheeling.
Bruce
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Burden bruceb@isd.tandem.com Tandem Computers Inc.
512-432-8944 Network Verification 14231 Tandem Blvd.
Auto answer(4 rings) Austin, TX 78726
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 12:01:19 -0800
From: Bruce
Subject: Winch opinions sought
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have decided to add a winch to "Ray" (found out it was not going to
arrive under the tree after all). Question is which rating is
appropiate for a FJ40 - 8000lbs or 9000lbs? I have seen many posts
discussing the Warn 8274 vs. Ramsey Pro 8000 or 9000 - but what is the
bottom line?? Anyone care to comment on the Warn M8000 - looks like the
X8000i, but the remote plug-in is not part or a metal housing. I found
this winch for sale for $583.99 - brand new and in the box, the best
price I have seen for the others are as follows:
Warn 8274 -->$875
Warn X8000i -->$665
Warn X8000i(multimount)-->$800
Warn XD9000i-->$770
Ramsey 8000 Pro Plus-->$650
Ramsey 9000 Pro Plus-->$700
Any help or suggestions appriciated.
- --
Bruce TLCA#6388
Redding, CA (165 miles north of Sacramento)
'74 FJ40 - "Ray" - Chevy 350/Ranger OD/MAF Adv. Handeling/etc...
My FJ40 Web page is at: http://www.c-zone.net/skishast/
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 16:09:27 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: Winch opinions sought
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Warn 8274 is the best if you want fast no load speed 45 F/M, the drawback
is if you need to reel out slowly this winch is to fast. And also being
the heaviest. But this is the best looking for FJ40. This is also afford
the longest cable (150 Feet compares to 100 to 125 feet for most winch).
They only advertised this as 8000 pound winch but real live testing prove
they are able to pull better than most 9000 pound winch. Warn want to
discontinue this winch back in the early nineties when they introduce
XD9000 but the export and hardcore offroader demand was still high for
this winch they decide to keep it.
Do not get the M8000 unless you only use it for light duty work. This is
too small for heavy Lancruiser. They advertised it as 8000 pound winch
but in the real live this is not enough for a landcruiser. Good enough
for the pickup.
Warn new Pro Plus 9000 is comparable with the new XD9000i. Both have
about 30 f/m no load speed. This gives the best compromise between
line speed and also the ability to reel out slowly.
------------------
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Date: Tue, 18 Nov 1997 17:17:30 -0800
From: "wg"
Subject: winch opinions
To:
I have to second the opinion that the M8000 isn't enough winch
for a TLC and really it isn't enuff for a pickup either if your
really stuck.
I have the M8000 and really, really wish I had the 8274Warn.
I probably will end up getting a 8274 and putting the M8000 on
the back of my 81 pickup.
Wil
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Date: Thu, 20 Nov 1997 17:51:08 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: winch opinions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-11-19 23:56:36 EST, you write:
>
> I have to second the opinion that the M8000 isn't enough winch
> for a TLC and really it isn't enuff for a pickup either if your
> really stuck.
> I have the M8000 and really, really wish I had the 8274Warn.
> I probably will end up getting a 8274 and putting the M8000 on
> the back of my 81 pickup.
>
> Wil
>
Are you people crazy? No, I bet you are trying for single line pulls.
If it is at all possible, you should always go for a double line pull.
You just gotta love them pulleys to double the rating of the winch.
With the Ramsey 8000 REP I have stretched the line out and pulled a
4 runner out of a swamp where he was stuck up to his frame rails.
It was too far to double the line, but I did it with no problem with
my 8000. I guess maybe the warn is not as good.
How much heavier is a LC than a truck? I knew they were heavy, but
are they THAT heavy?
David
DRM033@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 22:01:29 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Hawse fairlead for Warn winch
To: Toy4x4
Roger, I highly recommend not installing a hawse fairlead even for minor
winching. First you will not ever know when you might be doing a hard pull.
If you do that hard pull at an angle you will curl your cable. I think it
was my first time using my winch I was high centered on both axles and
had to pull at an angle and curled the cable pretty good.
Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 15:53:32 -0800
From: "Roger Brown P.E."
Subject: Winch cable stretching.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
My winch instructions tell me that I must "stretch" the cable before use.
Unfortunately, there's nothing beyond that describing the process. I assume
they mean to spool out most of the cable (leaving a few wraps on the spool),
attach it to something stout, lock up the brakes and pull the cable tight.
Before I go out and do this, am I about right on the technique?
Also, the instructions recommend that cable be re-wound with a minimum of 500
lbs. tension to prevent outer wraps cutting into the lower ones on subsequent
winching. Any tips on a good way to accomplish this?
- --
Roger Brown, P.E. mailto:rogerb@sgi.com
+1.650.933.1898 (vmail) +1.650.932.1898 (fax)
http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 19:18:16 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Winch cable stretching.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On a slightly uphill slope,real out the cable until the half bottom
layer is left,hook the cable to an tree(with a tree saver)and use the
winch to roll the truck to the tree.If the load isn't enough to keep the
cable tight,apply the park brake.Get a friend to help you,its a two man
job.Just make sure the cable doesn't bind up(like mine always did),and
thats it.What kind of winch did you get?I'm looking at an XD9000i for
this summer.
Darren
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Date: Sun, 15 Feb 1998 02:16:21 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Winch Warning
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
This is for everyone with an electric winch. Here in Australia we have
been getting some guys which love to get your winch cable hook it over
the roof to the rear to hitch and wind in the winch. Needless to say the
roof gets a little bent. Usually this 4*4 is an insurance write off. A
simple solution is to wire the solenoid pack earth (not the battery
earth) through relay under the hood and hook it to your 4wd detect
switch. This way the winch will go only in 4wd. This is starting to get
really bad here. Usually they just stick a bit of wire in the socket for
the remote control.
______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 05:08:31 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: lockers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Raymond Wong wrote:
> I have a '94 toyota If any one has any
> suggestions, they would be greatly appreciated, preferably on the less
> expensive side. I was thinking of lockers or a winch.
If you get a locker you will be able to drive further down the trail and get
so stuck that you really need a winch! If you only buy the winch and don't buy
the locker that you will never get into stuff that is bad enough to really
need the winch to get out. Most of us dummies buy the locker first. I still
want a winch (it's on my to do list for next year!) Everyone has a different
opinion but I really like the Detroit Soft locker. It cost about $500 +
installation. A single locker in a truck with 31" tires will allow the truck
to go more different places than a lifted truck with 33" tires and stocks
diffs. A 1" body lift is an easy mod too and only takes a few hours to
install. works well with 32 X 11.50 tires. Costs under $100
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Mar 1998 19:06:23 -0800
From: "Todd and Terry Steele"
Subject: lockers
To:
Chris Geiger wrote:
>If you get a locker you will be able to drive further down the trail and
>get so stuck that you really need a winch! If you only buy the winch and
>don't buy the locker that you will never get into stuff that is bad enough
>to really need the winch to get out
This is a hard decision. I went with lockers front and rear and have been
winched once. I could've gotten out with out being winched with my Hi Lift,
but winching was faster and easier. Now I have a winch that I'll probably
never use on my own vehicle. You generally buy a winch to unstick others!!
My $.02
Todd
His: 87 Toyota 4X4, Marlin Tcase #180, EZ Lockers F/R, Warn MX8000, Custom
rear bumper and nerfs, Ramsey F bumper, Trailmaster/Superlift 4", 33-9.5 BFG
MT's. Custom Body by Sierra Nevada.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 19:21:50 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: lockers
To:
Get the lockers!
I have lockers front and rear and I run trails like the rubicon regularily.
I have never been winched. Pile rocks or get a tug. My vote is for the
locker. If you do not plan on wheeing a lot get the winch. That way in an
emergency you can get out. I wheel a lot and I always have someone to tug
me if necessary. I do not plan on buying a winch, but I will never regret
the lockers
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
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Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 13:19:49 PST
From: "C.G. Smith"
Subject: Winches....Lockers.etc......
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I've only been wheelin' for about 8 years, and I have never been to the
left coast to Moab..rubicon..etc. Most of my wheelin is thick, sticky,
Carolina clay / mud.and since I've been in VA, the black mud that pretty
much rules VA. My current 89 Runner is my 8th 4x TOY. I've had two
different lifted solid axle trucks with big meats.one had 35's and one
had 36's. Both I had to regear, and the proved themselves many times
deep in the woods while hunting or just exploring. Winches are
great..but like some guy here said earlier, you end up using it mostly
to unstick other vehicles...not your own. Lockers are great, but I
still am a firm believer that driver skill can put a truck further into
the rough stuff than any other bolt-on. Just my opinion, I don't mean to
step on anybody's toes. I've been stuck many times...but I always carry
a logging chain with hooks....and a good old-fashioned come-along. These
have never failed to get me out if needed. I think TOYS tend to perform
better in deep mud because they can almost float across the
surface...not sinking and digging as many full-sizes I've seen and owned
tend to do. Just last week I went back toSC where I'm from and went
trekking with a couple of fully rigged trucks...fullsize..lockers, BIG
tires, etc..etc. They were continually amazed..and a little pissed off
that my mostly stock 'Runner could handle anything they could..except
for DEEP..I mean DEEP water. All this with open diffs, a 4cyl, and
little 31's. Some trails they had to find a way around, or if stuck
they couldn't even begin to turn around. I almost got nailed on the last
section we went through..about 4 ft of mud...I am SERIOUS...As they
watched drop jawed..I popped it down in 4wheel LO..and eased down into
it. the mud was deep enough that another 6 inches or so and it would
have been running in the truck. I eased thru with no problems...So to
make a long story short. Before you buy lifts, wheels,
winches..etc..Make sure your rig is mechanically sound and safe..no
bolt-on will get you unstuck if you break a U-joint because it wasn't
checked before..Sorry for the length......
------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 18:47:49 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: lockers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
For years i have used a hand powered come along with a couple snatch
blocks and some 5/16" aircraft cable.No battery drain,burnt power
steering pumps,and its a great workout!I had a Superwinch X9 on my old
Toy,but it was not the greatest and i could only pull from the
front.With the comealong i can pull 12000 lbs(with the snatch
blocks),and i can pull from the front,rear,and sides.I decided that
lockers were more important as a first upgrade to this truck than a
winch.I still think i made the right choice.I still get stuck,but even
with a rear Detroit,front True-Trac,and stock size tires,i went farther
than my chums with open diffs and 33" tires.Really.Now i have 33" mud
tires,decent suspension travel,and lockers and all my chums with big
Chevy's just look silly sitting there spinning 35" swampers while i go
around them!
Darren
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 14 Mar 1998 00:05:16 EST
From: DRM033
Subject: lockers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 98-03-13 18:31:22 EST, you write:
>
>I agree but the winch is only necessary if you go alone, othewise get a
>tug..
A "tug" does not always work. Sometimes you need more.
As to all of this about winches vs. lockers - it all depends on you.
I will agree with others in that I have yet to use my winch to extract me.
Just think about what your uses might be. If you only care about driving
your truck off road, then the locker is for you. The winch does have many
uses other than on the trail, & I use mine on the farm, pulling people
out of ditches, and other uses. If you might use it for things like this,
then get the winch.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
www.netmatter.com/traxx
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 01 May 1998 02:15:08 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Winch Warning
I was 4wheeling today , and winches came up in passing. Seems the that
winch vandals have spread further in OZ. They find your rig peel the
cable over the roof and attach to the tow bar. They then short out the
winch controller socket. The winch then crushes your roof and the rig is
a write off. So if you have a winch fit a solenoid to the power line to
disable it. Mine is hooked to the 4wd light.
James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)
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Date: Fri, 29 May 1998 09:45:08 -0600 (MDT)
From: Scott Ellinger
Subject: Re: warn 12000
> Yup ,,,TOTAL over kill for a Yota ;) ;)
> >
> > I just got an incredible deal on a 12000 lb warn for my 85 4runner and
> > am wondering if this is going to be to big. if this setup is possible
> > what rate springs should i use from OME. (got to get the lift before i
> > setup the winch)
>
I beg to differ... at least on the overkill part.
I run a 12,500 Pierce (stalls at about 13,500) on my '86 Toy pickup, and
I have stalled it, on the first wrap of cable, with two fully charged
batteries hooked up to it. I also know that it wasn't the fault of the
winch, either; right next to me, there were *two* Warn XD9i's going on
another single stuck Toy, and both stalled... :)
Incidentally, that much pulling power is enough to pull most bumpers off;
make sure that if you decide to mount it up, you go for similar overkill
on the mounting points.
And always remember: overkill is your best friend when you're depending
on your parts to get you home. There's no such thing as too much roll
cage when you're sitting on your roof; the same goes for winches, IMHO.
- --scott
Scott Ellinger ellinger@holly.colostate.edu Larimer County 4WD Club
Visit my Home Page: http://holly.colostate.edu/~ellinger
'86 Toy pickup body, Ford 5.0, GMC NV4500, "slightly altered" RKSTMPR
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
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Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 09:36:50 -0700
From: "Todd and Terry Steele"
Subject: Re: Tube bumpers and TJM q's
Bruce wrote:
>
> I am looking for opinions on tube bumpers like the Smittybuilt
> with a winch mount.
The last time I went to Hollister with Scott and gang, I saw an 85
Toyota pickup with the Smittybuilt Tube and winch mount. He had a Warn
8000. When he was winching a stuck Blazer, the whole bumper and mount
assembly was flexing out from the hood a good 2 inches. Might have been
the mounting design, but it scared me. I could picture the brackets
giving way and the whole winch, bumper assembly flying through the air.
I use a Ramsey winch bumper which puts the winch pretty much inline
with the end of the frame horns. I don't seem to have the flexing problem
Just my $.02
Todd
His: 87 Toyota 4X4, Marlin Tcase #180, EZ Lockers F/R, Warn MX8000, Custom
rear bumper and nerfs, Ramsey F bumper, Trailmaster/Superlift 4", 33-9.5 BFG
MT's. Custom Body by Sierra Nevada.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Jun 1998 14:57:32 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Bruce Burden"
Subject: Re: Tube bumpers and TJM q's
>
>
> 8000. When he was winching a stuck Blazer, the whole bumper and mount
> assembly was flexing out from the hood a good 2 inches. Might have been the
>
Not good. What I want to do is have a winch mount that
connects to the frame via two pins and 2" square tube. Simply
pin the winch in place to 2" ID square tube when you play,
and remove the winch when not playing (or you want to move
the winch to the rear, where it pins in again. Plus the rear
2"ID square tube doubles as a class III hitch installation.
Simple weld up 2" square tube with a receiver and pin it
in place. Safety chain mounts attach to the frame...
This way I don't kill my front suspension carrying a
winch, and I don't loose ground clearance in the back with
a class III hitch. Plus it is safer than the winch in a
receiver idea Warn promotes. All I need is some 0 guage
cable for power and a pair of male/female connectors to make
power easy.
Bruce
- --
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Burden bruceb@isd.tandem.com Tandem Computers Inc.
512-432-8944 Network Verification 14231 Tandem Blvd.
Auto answer(4 rings) Austin, TX 78726
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Jun 1998 12:57:51 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Tube bumpers and TJM q's
>TJM bumpers - I know several people have sneered at the aluminium
> bumpers they offer, but how many people have actually installed
> them? From the looks of them, however, it won't be easy to build a
> separate winch mount for easy removal.
Actually It's easy. When you get the TJM purchase the Winch Mounting
Plate. Don't install the roller brackets on the outside of the bar but
remover the blanking panel for the winch. Bolt in the winch cradle. Go
get an old receiver hitch and cut it to the width of the winch bracket.
Wield the hitch to the winch bracket so that the receiver mount point
out the bumper. You will find that this lines up just behind the bumper.
Last mount the number plate over the hole in the bumper. I use a
mounting frame from the junkyard from a vehicle that had the fuel filler
behind the licence plate. This lets you swing it out of the way when
needed. So to mount the winch just get the warn receiver mount and slide
it in.
James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Jun 1998 12:57:20 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Re: Tube bumpers and TJM q's
> From: "Bruce Burden"
> >
> > 8000. When he was winching a stuck Blazer, the whole bumper and mount
> > assembly was flexing out from the hood a good 2 inches. Might have been the
> >
> Not good. What I want to do is have a winch mount that
> connects to the frame via two pins and 2" square tube. Simply
> pin the winch in place to 2" ID square tube when you play,
> and remove the winch when not playing (or you want to move
> the winch to the rear, where it pins in again. Plus the rear
> 2"ID square tube doubles as a class III hitch installation.
> Simple weld up 2" square tube with a receiver and pin it
> in place. Safety chain mounts attach to the frame...
i'll have pictures of my custom made front hitch assembly. i wanted
this to be bullet proof. if anything fails, it's because the frame
broke. the front attachment are the two bolts holding the tow hook,
plus another bolt just behind them. and on the other side, same
thing, three bolts.
>
> This way I don't kill my front suspension carrying a
> winch, and I don't loose ground clearance in the back with
> a class III hitch. Plus it is safer than the winch in a
> receiver idea Warn promotes. All I need is some 0 guage
> cable for power and a pair of male/female connectors to make
> power easy.
don't forget that people can't steal what they can't see.
as for power connections, bought a set from wrangler products that
is rated for 350 amps continuous. again, probably overkill, but
everything in this system is... 8-) you can never be too safe.
as for power cable, go to a local welder supply shop. pick up 1/0
gauge, since i'm planning to run a connector from the front to the
rear. warn's system uses a 1 gauge puny cable. plus their
connectors are rated at 200 amp
[later bruce adds...]
>
> And I am not really wild about a Warn 9000 on a 5000 pound
> rated receiver. It would be really bad on side pulls, I expect.
>
again, i'm not too wild about a class 3 hitch on my 9000 warn. but
if look at the wimpy mount used by warn, the grill guard combo uses
the mounting point of the tow hook and the loop at the end the frame.
as for the side pull issue, maybe it's because of the wimpy design of
the frame/cradles made by each company. mine's made from a frame off
the ford pickup. the thing that goes into the hole of the hitch is
solid. then it's welded to the cradle at about 6" worth. sure it
weighs a ton. but again, overkill was the topic when i was taking to
my welder about this project.
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
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