Bumpers

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Date: Wed, 18 Mar 98 17:08:37 -0800
From: dquezada@diabloresearch.com
Subject: Re: Brush Guard for 95 4runner

     Subject: Re: Bursh guard for 95 4runner wanted
     
     > I just bought a 95 4runner and want to buy a brush guard for it.  I
     > was wondering if anyone in the group wants to sell one that they 
     have. > Or if anyone has suggestions on where to buy a new one.
     
     >Brush guards that just bolt on in front of the bumper don't do much, 
     >there just designed to give you that 4WD look. If you want to improve 
     >the front bumper the only thing to do is replace it, cause that piece 
     >of tin foil is not going to do you any good in an crash.Look into 
     >replacing the bumper all together. ARB, TJM, ProZap, Renule all make 
     >good replacement bumpers for Toyotas. They cost from $400-$1,000. BTW 
     >don't ever tie onto a bold on bumper to remove a stuck truck, they 
     >just bend like a pretzel.
     
          Mr Geiger speaks the truth! Two trips of mild wheeling and one 
     backwards yank has formed my rear stock bumper into a big smiley face. 
     To anybody looking into strong bumpers - I'd recommend Reunel, located 
     in Yuba City, CA. I wenting bouncing down a waterfall in Surprise 
     Canyon last November. I slammed my friend's (yes, we're STILL friends) 
     85 extended cab into the wall of the canyon, and broke off a boulder 
     of respectable size with the front bumper. The damage amounted to a 
     few scratches on the bumper. I'm convinced a stock bumper would have 
     allowed the whole front end to cave in. Spend your money on bumpers, 
     not body work!!!!
          Sorry for jumping from somebody looking for a brush guard to 
     recommending an $850 bumper, but hey, the damn things work.
     
     Danb



============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 10:18:03 -0800
From: Chris Geiger 
Subject: Re: Bumpers

That's about the only thing from Smitty that I would put on my truck. They are
much better than the stock bumper. They are mounted up high and out of the way.
The stock turn signals mount to it in a funny looking sorta way but it works.
They also have a winch mount version too.

Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html

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Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 07:31:45 -0800
From: Dan Merrick 
Subject: Re: Smittybilt bumpers

Smittybilt bumpers are considerably stronger than the stock bumpers. The
mounts are pretty sturdy. They wrap around nicely, to give some side
protection. They are available at a variety of places, and you can usually
get a pretty good price. If you live in an area where rust is a concern, I
would have them repainted or powdercoated. I believe that they come from
the manufacturer powdercoated, but usually rust at the weld joints, and end
caps. Maybe you can get some that are unpainted(direct from Smittybilt?),
and have them painted at a local shop. Also, pop the plastic end caps off,
and paint inside as far as you can. Glue or silicone the caps on so they
don't fall off!

>With all this talk about bumpers, how good (or bad) are the Smittybilt
>double tube front bumpers?  I'm talking about the black welded ones, not
>the bolt together chrome.  I don't intend to mount a winch so I don't need
>a winch mounting type. TIA.
>
>Randy
>


============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 11:18:22 -0500
From: "Carl Mercer" 
Subject: Re: Smittybilt bumpers

I put Smittybilt bumpers on my last pickup. They were heavy and strong and
mounted easily.  I never got in an accident with them so I can't say for
sure, but I would guess that they'd go a long way towards protecting the
truck. Like others have said, they rust at the ends. Mine started to show
signs of rust within 6 months of installation. If I was to do it over again
I'd look into preventive maintenance around the end caps. maybe
rust-proofing the insides or something.

Carl Mercer (98 TRD)

============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 14:23:36 -0500
From: "David C. Inabinet" 
Subject: Re: Smittybilt bumpers

I had a Smittybilt on my 89 Toy 4x4. It was great protection. I live in the
Washington DC area and I got rear ended four times with that bumper and
never got a scratch on my truck. It wasted a Jeep Cherokee, Chevy Lumina, VW
Passat and a Nissan 240 ZX. Excellent bumpers..

The only problem I had was a little rust around the ends where the endcaps
fit on.

Dave


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Date: Sun, 2 Aug 1998 14:43:41 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt 
Subject: Re: Custom rear bumpers

I only spent $450 on mine and its a real beauty. Sorry I don't have any 
pics. You might find some on the 4Runner Jamboree trip report on Scott 
Wilson's page when he gets it up soon. . I'ts a very clean and strong 
bumper. I had it custom fabbed at Pro Zap welding who specializes in 
ARB/TJM style winch bumpers for all sorts of trucks.. They do great work, 
and their bumpers are supposed to be stonger than others
My bumper also has 50 W fog lights mounted as aux. backup lights

Find someone with bumper experience. They will be able to make a better 
bumper for cheaper, through their experience. Shop around until you 
find someone in your area that can give you exactly what you want for 
what you want to pay. Talk with them for a long time, to get a verbal 
guarantee, at the very least. Jim @ Pro Zap, in Sonora CA, already had a 
template for 4Runners on hand. When I piced up the truck they tried to 
charge me an extra $50 for instalation. They did not mention this to me 
at all, and since I talk extensively with them about what I wanted, adn 
what it would cost, they agreed that that was their problem. If you have a 
2nd gen 4Runner, expect to pay more, though, for a clean bumper. If I 
would have thought of it, I would have bought myself a welder, and done 
it myself. I do know how to weld, and it would have paid for its self by 
now. Scott Wilson just bought one, check his out too. (from off-road.com)
...when his pics are up (soon?)

Jon Brandt

On Sun, 2 Aug 1998, Michael Woodruff wrote:

>    I've checked out lots of fabed rear bumpers on web pages lately.  Some
> have tire carrier's, fuel, etc, some don't.  But, owners all seem to note
> that they spent upwards of $1000. to have them built.  I'm just curious
> cause I'm heading that route and it seems like a lot of cash......do welders
> charge that much or is it the man-hours (lots?).  It sure doesn't seem like
> the parts are to blame.  Just wondering............
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Date: Sun, 13 Sep 1998 01:12:12 -0700
From: "Kenneth Sigel" 
Subject: RE: Nerf Bars & Bumper Bars

If anyone wants a quick and easy custom rear bumper, take a look at mine at
http://www.c4wheelers.com/members/kens/myrig.htm

It's made from a 2" tube and about an 8" tube.  I sliced the larger tube
lengthwise to make the curved skid.  Then I welded the 2" tube across the
top.  I added the 2" receiver to tow my Hobie Cat.

Having that bumper keeps me from bobbing the bed.
Ken

- -----
I had a guy in an S-10 Blazer rear-end me doing about 20 or 25 mph. I had
just gotten a new Smitty for the back after a cadillac toasted my stock
bumper. The Blazer did virtually no damage to my truck except maybe moving
the bed forward an 1/8th of an inch or so. Needless to say the front of the
Blazer was toast. Hope this helps.

Mike

- -----


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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:49:33 -0400
From: Thomas Bank 
Subject: Re: Stout Bumpers

    The one thing that I have heard about too stout of a bumper is that
you transfer the force of the crash to the frame and bend it, a lot more
difficult to repair than a bumper.  Any comments?  Understand that I
welded up a rear bumper out of some 2x5 inch rectangular steel tubing
and 3x3 angle iron after someone rear ended me and destroyed the stock
bumper.  The new bumper has been hit twice (under 20 mph) and I see
little damage to the bumper (a very minor dent) and none to the frame
but have had to touch up the paint a bit.  The one guy was not able to
drive away after the accident and the other had quite a bit of damage as
well.

Thomas Bank
'85 Shortbed Pickup


============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:05:31 -0700
From: Jim Brink 
Subject: Re: bumper

David Gibbs wrote:
> 
> My 88 4runner SR5 gets out of the body shop this weekend and I need 
> a good bumper. I do not want a stock bumper or a Smittybuilt.  I am
> looking for a TJM, Prozap, or ARB or something similar.  Preferably
> one of the cheaper models that go for $400 or less.  Performance
> products lists them in their catalog but don't stock them so it
> would take a month to  get one (is that retarded?)  if anyone knows
> where I can get something like this new or used, Sacramento area or
> long distance,  let me know.


Give the guys at Pro-Zap a call. Talk to Anton. He seemed pretty
friendly. They are located in Sonora. They build their bumpers for
Toyotas one at a time but I doubt it would take a month. One nice thing
about the Pro-Zap is that they will make custom brackets for the bumper
if you have a body lift, something you can't do with an ARB or TJM
unless you modify the bumper and/or mounting system which, IMHO, defeats
the purpose of having a strong bumper if you just go and fiddle with the
originally-engineered mount(s).
- -- 

Jim Brink     Toyota/ASE Certified Technician     toytech@off-road.com

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 08:40:18 -0400
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D." 
Subject: Re: bumper

They may say a month to protect themselves. They don't stock them but
Hella does (on the east coast, Georgia, I think). My TJM bumper arrived
within two weeks straight from Hella.

- -- 


Cheers,

Karl Bellve, Ph.D.                   ICQ# 13956200

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Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 09:38:56 EDT
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Re: bumper

Yep, this does get screwy here.  When I purchased my TJM several years ago, I
went straight to Hella (right around Atlanta I believe).   I ordered the
bumper Friday morning, and got it Saturday morning (Sat delivery was $10 and I
am in TN).
 I had ordered another one a year ago and they told me I had to call Perf.
Products.  SO, I did , and they give me all that crap too.  
I was really inpresed with Hella's service, but when I needed to return the
new bumper, Perf. Products took 2 months to issue the call tag.  And they took
another month to get the charge off the card.  I won't complain on PP more
than this - that is the only problem I have ever had with them.

David

 kdb@molmed.ummed.edu writes:

> They may say a month to protect themselves. They don't stock them but
>  Hella does (on the east coast, Georgia, I think). My TJM bumper arrived
>  within two weeks straight from Hella.

============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:47:12 EST
From: "james stevenson" 
Subject: Re: Toyota 4x4 digest: V2 #129

ARB bumpers and body lifts

>Anyone running an ARB front bumper with either a 1" or 2" body lift? 
>ARB says it's not possible to adjust for vehicle height

I use ARB bars on all my trucks. Two of my Hilux's have 2in body lifts. 
On both rigs, I made a 2 in spacer (bolted to top of bar) from U section 
steel. The ARB mounted around the front cross member, the stock bumper 
mounts, under the frame and through the fixed leaf spring eye. To modify 
this, while possible, is really defeating the reason for having the bar. 
I must say however that I did redo the tube work on one of the truck 
(3 in Higher) for rollover protection. Really a body lift is to gain 
space for tyres. By moving the bar up you are exposing the crossmember 
to damage. I find the ARB bar lets me bounce the bar off obstacles and 
onto the leaf spring. If I moved the bar up I would hit either the 
crossmember or the spring mount, not good.

James Stevenson (TonkaTuf) 


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Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 09:33:41 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D." 
Subject: Kaymar bumpers (was Re: Replacement Fuel Tanks in Oz)

james stevenson wrote:
> 

> under the body and replace it with a custom made tank. You will be able
> to get in about 250L without reducing ground  clearance. You can then
> use something like the Kaymar rear bumper/tyre carrier to hold the
> spare. If you can get away with a few Jerry cans normally I would



I got one tidbit in this that perked my interest (James seems to have
alot of cool info). I did a search on Kaymar bumpers and I found a US
distributor for them. http://www.acme-outfitters.com/ sells them and
they look extremely heavy duty with options for a Jerry Can, Spare Tire,
Highlift jack. They are made for 4Runners, and Landcruisers. My stock
Toyota bumper has been dragged too many times and is looking pretty bad.
The advantage over the Kennesaw Mtn bumpers are that they will bolt
right up. I believe the Kennesaw bumpers have D rings and the Kaymar
does not.

http://www.kenmtn.com/
http://www.acme-outfitters.com/products/kaymar/bumpers.html
 
John Clelland emailed me:
retail pricing on the KA1805 is $657.50.
retail pricing on the KA1070 left hand side tire carrier is $439.00.
if your a TLCA member, you receive a 10% discount on these parts.



- -- 
Cheers,

Karl Bellve
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Date: Wed, 09 Dec 1998 11:34:57 -0600
From: Robert Canon 
Subject: Re: TJM bumper?

>>> TJM, good bumper! 
>> 
>> ARB, better bumper!
>>
>> Actually, you can't really go wrong with either. Both are a quantum leap 
>> improvement over the stock bumper and/or factory brush & grille guard. I
just 
>> prefer the mounting system of the ARB - directly to the frame, no
brackets. 
>> Does make it more difficult to line things up if you have a body lift
though. 
>> 
>What do you mean by direct to the frame? TJM is mounted to the frame. They 
>do use brackets but they are massive, designed to hold a winch to the 
>frame. Then outshell of the bumper then mounts to the brackets. Extremely 
>strong. If the ARB is one piece, then it would be stronger.

I just had a ProZap bumper built for my Tacoma.  It mounts like you
describe the TJM with the addition of "beefy bars" that mount from the
bumper where it wraps around just in front of the front wheels back to the
frame.  They claim that I can use a hilift on the very ends of the bumper
with no problem.  The weak link on Tacomas is the wimpy frame rails that
cantilever out with no support what so ever.  Last summer I caught the
factory tow hook on a rock bending one of the rails to the tune of $600!
The ProZap folks beefed that area in a major way before designing the winch
frame to mount to the newly strengthened frame members.  I'll post pics
when get them developed and scanned.

============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Thu, 10 Dec 1998 17:21:52 EST
From: "james stevenson" 
Subject: Re: TJM bumper?

>ARB, better bumper!  Right James?  :-)
Without question, all my rigs have the ARB. It's the one part I never 
question putting on.

>Does make it more difficult to line things up if you have a body lift
Not really you leave the ARB alone and put a spacer under the grill. The 
ARB protects the front spring mounts (solids) I would not want to remove 
this feature or try to relocate the mounts.

>What do you mean by direct to the frame? TJM is mounted to the
>frame. They do use brackets but they are massive, designed to hold
>a winch to the frame. 

The ARB does not use brackets. It is a one-piece unit. The TJM uses bolt 
on bracxkets and they are not that massive compared to the ARB mounts. 
The ARB is designed for winch pulls at 90 deg to the bar the TJM is 
designed for a max of 25deg. But I wold not go that far myself. The ARB 
spreads the winch load over the whole frame where the TJM put it into 
two mounting points. Also TJM bumper needs renforcment to add a winch 
(winch plate) where the ARB does not. Put it this way if you are going 
to install a winch or get into areas where you are going to be winched 
get the ARB. If you are only ever going to need to be pulled or a winch 
get the TJM (steel). 

James Stevenson (TonkaTuf) ICQ-19130256

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Date: Thu, 7 Jan 1999 16:43:51 -0700
From: "Nathan Kofahl" 
Subject: Stout equipment bumpers

Hello all
Just thought I would throw my 2 cents in here. These bumpers are great!
Grant (owner of stout) is in our local TLCA chapter (high desert cruisers)
and makes some of the best bumpers, etc I have ever seen. I have one of his
units on my FJ-40. Check the link out and hit the custom work to see a
picture. Reasons for a stout bumper? 1. It is made out of better steel than
anything else on the market than I am aware of. Mine is made out of 5/16th
2x4. This is some major stuff. By comparison bulletproof bumpers (break it
and they give you an new one) only uses 3/16ths. 2. they are made by a guy
that know and loves Toyotas. He has a cruiser and a pickup truck. 3. They
are truly custom. He will do almost anything you want short of chrome. 4.
This guy wheels hard and designs his work to stand up to anything you throw
at your truck.

I have no connection with his business other than he is a friend and
wheeling partner. He is also on the Board of Directors of High Desert
Cruisers. I like Grant, I like his work, and I would like to see them on a
few more trucks.

- -Nathan
78 FJ-40
TLCA # 7466 President High Desert Cruisers
Albuquerque, NM
nmyeti@integrityonline1.com

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Date: Mon, 08 Feb 1999 08:47:11 -0500
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D." 
Subject: Re: Tire carries/bumpers

Clifford Randell wrote:
> 
>  Anyone interested in getting some great ideas can go here.  This is the
> > first company I have found thats really got it together for toy bumpers.
> >
> > http://www.stoutequipment.net/
> >
> 
> >Yep, I think I will be getting a bumper from them but I am waiting for
> >them to finish their R&D on the early 4Runner bumpers and put a pic on
> >their page. They are much cheaper than the Kaymar bumpers but look just as
> >stout (pun intended). My rear bumper is in poor shape.
> 
> Just thought I'd throw another option for rear bumper/tire carriers  out
> there.  You might call Kennesaw Mountain Accessories
> At 770-947-0190 or check out their multi-carrier here
> http://www.kenmtn.com/html/p1.html      They are very reasonable and have
> what appears to be a well made tire carrier with standard shackles and
> pretty cheap options (hi-lift mount and air fittings for use as a tank were

The problem with Kennesaw bumpers is that they do not include the frame
mount. You have to get one made up. I believe Roger paid over $450 for
the frame mount to be made at a machine shop. Add that to the price of
the bumper. Stout and Kaymar bumpers include the mounts to the frame.
That is a big savings.

Karl Bellve

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Date: Tue, 09 Feb 1999 10:26:55 -0800
From: "Roger Brown, P.E." 
Subject: Re: Tire carries/bumpers

Karl wrote:
> The problem with Kennesaw bumpers is that they do not include the frame
> mount. You have to get one made up. I believe Roger paid over $450 for
> the frame mount to be made at a machine shop. Add that to the price of
> the bumper. Stout and Kaymar bumpers include the mounts to the frame.
> That is a big savings.

I think KMA will provide mounts (if you pester them enough).  I was working on
this but I think I was one of the first Toyota versions they built and was
working up drawings of the mounts.  I got tired of waiting for them (terribly
backed up after the UPS strike a few years ago) and went ahead and made my own
front mounts (a piece of cake) and then (unfortunatley) went to a friend of a
friend to get some custom rear mounts fabricated (I wanted to maximize the
departure angle).  One tip, don't get a machinist to make something that could
be torched out of some flat stock.  While it was nice having all the holes
line up to 0.0001", it's not worth the extra cost.  There is about $30 worth
of steel in my mounts and I'm sure you could get someplace to cut them for you
in an hour or so.  You can download the rear bracket design off my web page
(its set up for a 1" body lift.

Roger Brown		http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/4x4/4R_bumpers.html

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Date: Mon, 8 Feb 1999 22:58:03 -0700
From: "John Lange" 
Subject: Stout Equipment

Stout is the perfect name for these industrial bumpers and side rails. 
They will offer the siderails with the receiver mount for the portable
winch's.   Hopefully this bumper will be tested in Moab by me in the next
few months.   

www.stoutequipment.net	

J.Lange

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