Rust - Cleaning and Prevention
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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 07:11:35 -0700
From: wgirindra@bbs.fronet.com (Wilkin Girindra)
Subject: Chrome rusting
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Hi, here is a suggestion for those rusting chrome
wheels. I had a similar problem and I used SOS pot
scrubbing pads to take out the rust. This actually
took out what appeared to be quite deep rust.
2nd step is to use something called Fluid Film.
I'm not 100% sure what this stuff is made of but
I heard that it is some type of sheep's wool extract.
Anyways don't quote me on that but it does work.
Wil
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Date: Tue, 20 May 1997 15:34:42 EDT
From: matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin)
Subject: Chrome rusting
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I used cement and a little water and scrubbed it and the spots came right
out. I used a wet rag (really wet) and dabbed it in the cement. I did
this on a 69 dodge I was restoring and the chrome looked real good after
I was done. Just don't let it harden on the chrome wipe it right off when
done scrubbing.
Matt Chapin
matt877@juno.com
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Date: 20 May 1997 08:56:08 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: new chrome rusting
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:30 AM
OFFICE MEMO new chrome rusting Date: 5/20/97
You may try scrubbing them with #0000 steel wool. It will get rid of the
rust but the rust will return over time. Waxing the wheels may protect them
a little longer too.
________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY) '91 4Runner
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:03:24 -0500
From: El Manalo
Subject: Dura Shine used on grill\brush guards and nerf bars
To: Toy4x4@Tlca.org
>I live in the New England where a lot of road salt is used in
>the winter. The truck is driven every day of the year, especially in the
>winter. During the summer months, the bars held up nicely. But, after a
>winter of use, rust began to bubble up from under the paint anywhere
>the bar made a bend and on the ends buy the caps.
Just a suggestion:
Chicago is notorious for Road Salt use during winter. I don't really
recommendDura Shine for use on one's paint job since I prefer regular
polishes and wax on the actual body of the car but the Dura Shine
product actually works really well on the front grill and brush guards that
I have (Manik fully-welded) . I even use these on the Smittybuilt side nerf
bars. I just want the rust preventive qualities of this product and it seems
to be holding up very, very well. We'll see after another winter here.
The really nice thing about it is that you just wipe it on(only on the bars)
after washing the entire vehicle, I don't even bother to hose it off the
bars. You don't have to worry about keeping it away from the rubber
steps on the nerf bars. Applies very quickly to these bars. Leaves it with
a nice glossy look. Anyways, just a thought...
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 16:45:37 -0500
From: Steve Capuano
Subject: Rust Prevention??
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 10:03 PM 8/25/97 -0500, you wrote:
>I've got a 94 Xtracab and I put on a tailgate protector today. Quite
>frankly it's a bit too late for one to protect my tailgate lip, but I
>just didn't want any more dents, dings, and scratches on it that I
>already have.
>
>My problem is that my aluminum ramp for loading my 4 wheeler has torn up
>the top edge of my tailgate...it's already scratched pretty bad, and
>dented in, but has started to rust a little bit. I'm thinking of taking
>my new tailgate protector off and putting some rust inhibitor on it,
>then replacing it to prevent any further damage. I live in the southern
>USA and don't have problems with salt on roads, etc.
>
>Any recommendations on what to put on it?
Loctite corp. has a rust inhibitor that is EXCELLENT. It is called Extend.
What it does is chemically changes the rust into some sort inert compound
and becomes a polymer sealant. I have used it many times. For Example on a
cooling tower that had rusted galvanized sheet metal. Good stuff.
>
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
capuano@hypercon.com 31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
Houston, Texas Rear LockRight K&N filter
Dynomax 2.5" cat back Synthetic all around
NRA lifetime member Edelbrock headers (en route)
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 11:22:27 -0700
From: Scott Muir
Subject: Rust proof 4skinner
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
I would caution anyone planning on used truck rustproofing to explore as
many options as they can.
I got really burned on this. This was and is my first car, and the lot
I bought it off of really pressed me to buy a care package.
(perf/undercoat/clearcoat/RCMP id number etched into all the glass)
Well, the perf stuff seems to have been a good thing, but the
undercoating was not. The truck wasn't prepared at all for it, and just
went on over any rust. Six years later, the undercoating started
falling off with nice sheets of rust glued to one side. The gist of it
is, that typically undercoating does, over time, harden and then crack
and goes from rust barrier to rust condo. If I had not had this done,
at least a wire brush and a rattlecan of rust paint could have been
used. The cab has fared well over the years, the seams along the bed
rotted out and are nice inspection slots at the moment, and I was forced
to do a frame transplant.
Also, the clearcoat is flaking off of the drivers door and a couple
other places... It really needs to be applied to fresh paint.
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 09:28:34 -0400
From: Gregory M Charland
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: "'Toy4x4'"
I was underneath my '84 4Runner last night, and it's looking good for
restoration!
After 13 Massachusetts winters, I was becoming pretty concerned about
frame rust- It's got that bubbly kind of rust that looks pretty serious,
and the body has several little spots coming out now. Most of the stuff
bolted to the frame looks pretty crumbly. I ground down several spots
with my 3M "Abrasive Disc" (the one that looks like a pot scrubber)
and hit solid frame within a few seconds.
I always thought that the best way to deal with rust was to sand/grind
down to bare metal, re-prime and paint. My father told me that the rust
will come right back you do this. He gave me this stuff called "Rust-Mort."
It's a bluish-clear liquid that's supposed to fix rust, keep it from coming
back, cure minor aches and pains, etc. From my Material Science classes at
WPI, I remember that rust (Ferrous oxide) can be chemically converted to
other compounds (Ferrous chromates and phosphates) that primer will
stick very nicely to, and form a chemical barrier to rust.
I'd like to hear about other people's experiences with this kind of stuff.
What I'm considering my first step in the resto process is to control
the existing rust. So far, I've tried the Rust-Mort stuff on the tailgate
which generally isn't too bad-a few paint bubbles here and there. I'm
grinding down to bare metal, putting the "stuff" on, priming, and painting
with a spray can. My next target area is the bed, then driver's floor,
then doors/rocker panels.
After that, I'm contemplating a suspension lift, so that'd be a good
time to clean and paint the axles, etc, take the body off, grind down &
paint the frame, replace body bushings, and really take care of the
underside of the body/bed.
Has anyone on the list done a project like this? I'm sure it's gonna
take a lot of time (I work within walking distance of home :)
I have some basic body work and mechanical experience, so I have an
idea what I'm getting into. I'd appreciate any input on
a) doing this to a 4Runner
b) rust restoring/preventative chemical stories
c) suspension lift input (I'm considering the NWOR 3-1/2" setup).
Thanks,
Greg
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:38:12 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
ZINK, they call it. Primers with zink in, will help fight allready
rusted places.
I tried paint called Hameret on me X saab, it didn't stay up to my
expetations. My daddy used some other stuff on our roof. it
looks promising. Changes colour as it gets in tuch with the
rust, it has bad effect to paint, and doesn't stick to bare metal.
Sounds serius.
As to my 12 year old Hilux which has a lot of surface rust on
its frame, I'm going to have it olied. That is, olie is sprayed
all over its frame and bottom. One friend also found out that having
an engine that leaks serius amounts of olie is a very good rust
protector for the front end.....
> paint bubbles here and there. I'm grinding down to bare metal, putting
> the "stuff" on,
..Grinding down to bare metal might not be the best
thing to do if you are putting on some of that rust converting
primers. They often work better if they have slight rust to bind to...
> priming, and painting with a spray can. My next target area is the
> bed, then driver's floor, then doors/rocker panels.
how about that Rhino stuff? Does it work?
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:14:07 -0700 (PDT)
From: Luke P Miller
Subject: Rust Prevention??
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In restoring our '62 Triumph, my father and I went through plenty of rust
inhibitors.
The Rust-Mort stuff seems to work decent, make all the rust turn black,
ready to be painted. But, due to the other substances out there, I mostly
prefer to use this in spot that cannot be reached by normal means. It's
runny enough to pour down into enclosed spaces, as a last ditch effort to
stop rusting from the inside out.
On pieces that are readily accessible, I'd grind it down and go through
the whole process of coating the bare metal with a phosphate solution,
which the Rust-Mort people also make. Then a good coat of zinc-enhanced
primer or other such rust-preventative primers, and then a nice looking
top coat. It works pretty well for the manufacturers, it ought to work for
you.
Also, there is a paint called Por-15. I really don't even put it in the
same category as regular paint, because this stuff is wicked. It can be
put on super thick, or fairly thin, over your exposed rust, and it's
supposed to permenantly seal it from the outside. The final dry coating is
incredibly tough, especially to get back off, and it is fairly flexible.
We used it to seal all the body seams up in the TR4, since the regular
seam sealer just causes more rust.
Sorry this was long, but working on British cars gives you plenty to
babble about.
Luke Miller
'85 4Runner
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 97 18:00:00 MST
From: Johnson Alex
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toyota Mailing List
Regarding the rust email from Gregory M Charland :
I grew up in MA and had to do a lot of rust repair over the years. For
quality bodywork, I found that the only lasting solution was to completely
remove all the rust right down to bare, shiny metal. Even the slightest
discolored pits in the metal would turn to ugly rust in a few years.
I've tried naval jelly for removing light rust with minor success and I've
used one of those chemicals that changes rust to something else like you
mentioned. I used to coat some parts of my car with that rust changer every
spring (it only seemed to last a year when exposed to snow & salt). This
slowed the rusting on body panels that were too far gone to fully repair and
turned the rust patches black so at least the car looked good at night :-).
I've also used Rustoleum Red primer which contains fish oil. It works well
but can never really be sanded since you'll sand through the dry layer and
into the oily layer that covers the rust and stops oxygen from getting to it
- this stuff is great on frames and other strong but rusty parts as long as
you like red (just wirebrush off the loose rust and paint).
I also used to bend up "patch" panels of galvanized steel. I would cut out
the rusted area (places where I tried to sand down to shiny metal and wound
up with a big hole!), and patch it with the panel using pop rivets (I didn't
have access to a welder or money to have the job done for me). This could
either be caulked (to seal out water, especially away from the edges of the
panel where there is no zinc protecting the steel) and left as is for that
nifty "battleship" look, or with a bit of work and some bondo can come out
looking as good as new. Galvanized steel also worked well for patching
exhaust pipes (using a pair of hose clamps and some muffler putty). BTW -
don't cut galvanized steel with a torch since I believe the fumes are
poisonous.
As a last resort, you can do what I did and move to Phoenix where the
vehicles usually die of old age and rough trails instead of rust!
Have fun,
-Alex Johnson
TLCA Member # 5550
'94 V6 4WD Toy Pickup
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 21:50:06 -0500
From: Steve Capuano
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
BTW -
>don't cut galvanized steel with a torch since I believe the fumes are
>poisonous.
Also don't believe the story that milk will keep you from puking after
breathing the crap.
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
capuano@hypercon.com 31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
Houston, Texas Rear LockRight K&N filter
Dynomax 2.5" cat back Synthetic all around
NRA lifetime member Edelbrock headers (en route)
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Date: Tue, 26 Aug 1997 23:51:59 -0400
From: "M. Traver"
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>Material Science classes at WPI, I remember that rust (Ferrous oxide) can
be >chemically converted to other compounds (Ferrous chromates and
phosphates) >that primer will stick very nicely to, and form a chemical
barrier to rust.
>I'd like to hear about other people's experiences with this kind of stuff.
>What I'm considering my first step in the resto process is to control the
>existing rust.
All I remember from my Materials Science classes at WPI was the sound of my
head hitting the table, but that's neither here nor there. The subject
of rust inhibitors has come up fairly often on the Classic Mustangs list
I also subscribe to (you in the back, stop that hissing!) and one product that
always comes up is called POR-15 made by Resto-Motive Labs, Inc. Their
claims include "a coating that will not only stop rust, but will prevent it
from returning". Plus they throw in impressive sounding technical terms like
"coat the metal with zinc phosphate to encourage deep chemical bonding of
POR-15(R) to the base metal and rust." They sell a line of products and
several Mustang owners have used them with success.
The info from the catalog they sent me:
RestoMotive Laboratories
P.O. Box 1235
Morristown, NJ 07962-1235
Ph.# 1-800-457-6715
Fax# 1-201-887-8007
- -Michael
**********************************************************************
Michael Traver, Graduate Student
West Virginia University, Engine Research Center
Mailto:traver@wvnvms.wvnet.edu or http://wvnvms.wvnet.edu/~traver
Floggings will continue until morale improves.
**********************************************************************
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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:10:47 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Rust Prevention
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> Loctite corp. has a rust inhibitor that is EXCELLENT. It is called Extend.
> What it does is chemically changes the rust into some sort inert compound
> and becomes a polymer sealant. I have used it many times. For Example on a
> cooling tower that had rusted galvanized sheet metal. Good stuff.
> >
Ever use OSPHO??? does mostly the same thing although you need to paint or clearcaot after.
You can get it at just about any marine store and some hardware, costs about 8 bucks for a 30 oz bottle.
Sheldon
83ToY4x4
sgard@flnet.com
http://www.flnet.com/~sgard/
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Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:34:56 -0700
From: "H. Sutphin"
Subject: Rust treatments
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have used a product from Marhyde (found in most automotive paint
supply shops) One Step Converter. It works very well on rust and
converts it to a hard black oxide. It must still be painted after
treatment.
Another method that works for you guys that are going to the trouble of
taking it down to the frame, is to have the assemblies electrochemically
dipped. (This is not an acid bath and does not remove GOOD metal) There
are shops on east and west coasts that do this. Essentially they can dip
an entire chassis, body and other parts into a tub to remove all paint
bondo then a second tub that is electrolytic to remove the rust. It
works very well.
Harold
82 4x4
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