Marlin Crawler
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:33:44 -0000
From: "Todd and Terry"
Subject: Marlin Crawlers
To:
I need an opinion from all those crawler users out there. If you used the
4.70 t-case gears, do you find yourselves wishing that you had gone with
the add-on box to get all three t-case ranges? Those that are using the
add-on cases, do you still find yourselves using the normal low-range or
has it become excess weight? Please give me your opinions along with what
kind of wheeling you do so I can try to figure out what I'm going to do.
Thanks Todd
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 4 Feb 1997 22:17:02 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Marlin Crawlers
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-02-04 20:46:01 EST, you write:
> I need an opinion from all those crawler users out there. If you used the
> 4.70 t-case gears, do you find yourselves wishing that you had gone with
> the add-on box to get all three t-case ranges? Those that are using the
> add-on cases, do you still find yourselves using the normal low-range or
> has it become excess weight? Please give me your opinions along with what
> kind of wheeling you do so I can try to figure out what I'm going to do.
>
> Thanks Todd
>
I don't have either yet, but I am looking toward getting the new gears. I
figure I don't want the hassle of driveshaft mods, or new holes in the floor,
etc. I don't see how you would need two different low ranges. Sure, it it
neat to point out the extra lever, but above that... If you need a higher
gear than your new low range first, try third. I believe that third gear
with the new low gears is like the stock low 1st. that still leaves 4th, and
5th as your old 2nd and 3rd. If you need to go faster than that, switch back
to 4HI. Does this make sense? Although I feel this way, I too want to hear
from Marlin owners and what they think.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:27:34 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Marlin Crawlers
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
"Todd and Terry" wrote:
>I need an opinion from all those crawler users out there. If you used the
>4.70 t-case gears, do you find yourselves wishing that you had gone with
>the add-on box to get all three t-case ranges? Those that are using the
>add-on cases, do you still find yourselves using the normal low-range or
>has it become excess weight? Please give me your opinions along with what
>kind of wheeling you do so I can try to figure out what I'm going to do.
I have a single tcase with 4.7 gears in it. I find myself doing most
'average' wheeling in 3rd gear and if it's a little tougher, I'll
drop into second, if it's really tough I'll shift down into 1st. If
I want to go faster than 4th or 5th, I'll shift into 4-hi.
I guess it really depends on how slow you want to go, at some point
in time I'd like to add a second stock tcase with stock gears so
I could drive back to California and run the Victor Valley 4wheelers
trails and some of the ones in AZ.
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:26:55 -0800
From: rmurray@gvn.net (Rick Murray)
Subject: Marlin Crawlers
To: TOY4X4@TLCA.ORG
I bought one (4.7 re-geared case) last June, and now I can't imagine
wheeling without it. I took 2 hours to install (no driveline or
crossmember mods ) . One rarely do I wish I had the original low-range.
I spend most of my wheeling in 4wd-low third gear. Drop down to 1st only when
I really need it. If I need a higher gear, then I go to 4wd-hi.
################################################################## Rick Murray 84 Toyota 4Runner SR5
( rmurray@gvn.net ) stock 22R motor ; 3" ProComp Lift
Rancho Cordova, Ca. 8" steel rims; 33" BFG M/Ts
www.gvn.net/~rmurray/ 4.88 gears; Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD
##################################################################
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 09:00:45 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon Miller wrote:
"Has anyone had any problems with Marlin
Crawler gears? I am driving down to fresno
next week to get one. Is it low enough, I
have 5.29's. Do you lose your original low
gears, is there too much of a gap between
high and low?"
Marlin Crawlers come in two flavors:
1. A bolt-on transfer case that provides a 4.7:1 gear reduction.
With your stock transfer in 4-low, you have a 9.4x lower gear than in
2-high.
2. A redone case that replaces your stocker with a 4.7:1 gear.
I'm going the bolt-on route with mine. That will give me a real low gear if
I want it, plus the option of a higher gear (2:1 stocker).
Marlin's URL is: http://www.4x4now.com/4wstoymc.htm.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:20:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Marlin Crawlers come in two flavors:
>
> 1. A bolt-on transfer case that provides a 4.7:1 gear reduction.
> With your stock transfer in 4-low, you have a 9.4x lower gear than in
> 2-high.
Woa...that's available, but the standard bolt on second t-case usually
just has the stock low range (what is it, like 2.28:1 or so?). So, with
both t-cases in low, you get about a 5.2:1 low range.
> Marlin's URL is: http://www.4x4now.com/4wstoymc.htm.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: 14 May 1997 09:09:40 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Marlin Crawler ratios
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 9:00 AM
OFFICE MEMO Marlin Crawler ratios Date: 5/14/97
Brandon Miller wrote:
snip
>Has anyone had any problems with Marlins Crawler gears? I am driving
>down to fresno next week to get one. Is it low enough, I have 5.29's.
>Do you lose your original low gears, is there too much of a gap between
>high and low?
I don't have a Crawler but can comment on the ratios. I assume you are
talking about swapping the original 2.28:1 gears for the 4.7:1 set.
With the five speed you should end up with nine different forward gear
ratios (two of the ten will be about the same, see below).
Figure first gear, high range is 3.95 x 1, or 3.95:1
And fifth gear, low range is .85 x 4.7, or 4.0:1.
So that these two configurations provide the same final drive ratio.
You get a nice overlap with not missing gear ratios.
Now.....running an automatic is a different matter because you can't
"skip" the low gears on an auto so you must go thru all the "slow" ratio
gears to get to the one you want. With the manual, you can start out
out in any low range gear you like and avoid the slower gears if you
want.
________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY) '91 4Runner
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 11:33:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Marlin Crawler ratios
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> >Has anyone had any problems with Marlins Crawler gears? I am driving
> >down to fresno next week to get one. Is it low enough, I have 5.29's.
> >Do you lose your original low gears, is there too much of a gap between
> >high and low?
>
> I don't have a Crawler but can comment on the ratios. I assume you are
> talking about swapping the original 2.28:1 gears for the 4.7:1 set.
>
> With the five speed you should end up with nine different forward gear
> ratios (two of the ten will be about the same, see below).
>
> Figure first gear, high range is 3.95 x 1, or 3.95:1
>
> And fifth gear, low range is .85 x 4.7, or 4.0:1.
>
> So that these two configurations provide the same final drive ratio.
>
> You get a nice overlap with not missing gear ratios.
True, but before you get just the 4.7:1 gears, make sure it's right for
you. For instance, I use low range all the time. Often, I don't need a
higher gear than say the 4:1 mentioned above (fifth in 4low w/the
marlin) but way, way too often, you need to be going, say 30 or even 40
mph, only to have to downshift all the way to first gear 4low (in a
'stock' truck). For instance, sometimes the only way I can get through
mud is with wheel speed. But by the end of the pit, the truck get's soo
bogged down, I need to put it in first (4low) just to have enough power
to keep the tires moving. If you had the crawler, you'd need to stop
mid-mud-pit, downshift into low range, then 'crawl' your way out. At
least for me, that's no good. Anyway, just some food for thought. Oh
yeah, other times when you just need a 'stock' low range--Engine braking
down slow/steep hills, pulling a boat up a steep hill/launch ramp,
taking off fast at the bottom of a hill, then crawling over the rock
outcropping at the top...ect. FWIW, I've done 50mph in 4low before, and
while it does rev high, you can do it! (We were trying out the 4low in
traffic, while test driving my friend's 'to-be' truck, and then the
traffic took off, and I was already going 15mph in 4low, so I pretty
much had to keep going) I once had to tow a friend's jeep, 3 or 4 miles
and my truck w/ 32's just didn't have the power! So I had to use 4low,
on a main road. --I did 35mph the whole way, and all was fine. Even
hit 45+ in a few places..
I'm not saying it's a good idea, just that it can be done, and it's nice
to have available.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 12:33:57 -0700
From: Locke Christman
Subject: Marlin Crawler ratios
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
>
>True, but before you get just the 4.7:1 gears, make sure it's right for
>you.
Jonathan makes some good points, especially for those of us that live
where there is lots of MUD!
My idea of the "ideal" crawler case would be to add the second case with
4.7:1 gears and maintain the stock gears in the original case. This
would give the option of the mild stock low range of 2.3:1, an
intermediate low range of 4.7:1, and a super low range of 2.3 x 4.7 =
10.8:1!
Well it is fun to think about but I won't be doing this soon since it
would cost more than my old '80 Toy is worth!
Locke
>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 18:24:46 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #186
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
For the benefit of going twice as slow I can shift between high and
low... My favorite wheeling is in the rocks and being tight on money
this set up sounds good. I don't know if anyone has a JP eater but I
have spent a lot of time on the phone with Marlin and Jack (of the
eater) and although Jack believes that Marlins will leak, break, and the
stock case wont hold up; I still like the single box idea and Marlin has
been extremely helpful. Other than having to shift to low more, has
anyone experienced bad leaks, broken shift forks, of major driveline
vibrations?
>For instance, sometimes the only way I can get through
> mud is with wheel speed. But by the end of the pit, the truck get's
> soo bogged down, I need to put it in first (4low) just to have enough
> power to keep the tires moving. If you had the crawler, you'd need to
> stop mid-mud-pit, downshift into low range, then 'crawl' your way out.
I had that problem before I got my 5.29's, I have been through some
serious pits and I can usually get by in first hi now, I have short 33"
swamper radials.
> Oh yeah, other times when you just need a 'stock' low range--Engine
> braking down slow/steep hills, pulling a boat up a steep hill/launch ramp,
> taking off fast at the bottom of a hill, then crawling over the rock
> outcropping at the top...ect.
Don't you still have your "stock" lo range, just a couple gears up? I
won't know until I get the T-case but it sounds like you are not losing
any gears except for the ones that overlap now.
>
> My idea of the "ideal" crawler case would be to add the second case
> with 4.7:1 gears and maintain the stock gears in the original case. This
>
> would give the option of the mild stock low range of 2.3:1, an
> intermediate low range of 4.7:1, and a super low range of 2.3 x 4.7
> = > 10.8:1!
>
> Well it is fun to think about but I won't be doing this soon since
> it would cost more than my old '80 Toy is worth!
you said it, too much $, but maybe someday and when I do I'll allready
have the 4.71 case!
------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 May 1997 23:03:01 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #186
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>Oh yeah, other times when you just need a 'stock' low range--Engine
>braking down slow/steep hills, pulling a boat up a steep hill/launch ramp,
>taking off fast at the bottom of a hill, then crawling over the rock
>outcropping at the top...ect.
>
>Don't you still have your "stock" lo range, just a couple gears up? I
>won't know until I get the T-case but it sounds like you are not losing
>any gears except for the ones that overlap now.
Yes, you still have access to those gears that you used to have with the
stock low range, but not without shifting from low to high range and
back. If you never really use more than 2nd or 3rd (tops) in low range,
then this shouldn't be much of a problem--but I use 4th and 5th low all
the time. I 'spose I wouldn't near as much if I had 33's and 5.29's
though.
And of course, if you really aren't happy with just a 4.7:1 case, you
could always upgrade to a dual case setup with the crawler gears in the
rear one (lottsa money!).
I just wanted to mention this, because I know the 4.7:1 gears wouldn't
be so hot for what I use my truck for...but for all I know, may be
perfect for you.
Another neat thing about the double case setup (for solid axle trucks)
is that you get a longer front driveshaft too.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 17 May 1997 12:09:44 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
A couple of other things to think about with the Marlin Crawler. I
ordered the second case (sitting on my floor at this time, should
install after Memorial day).
1-With the added case in high you will have the same gear ratio's you
have now. So if you like what you have but need that extra low at times
then this works great.
2-You will now have 2 wheel drive LOW. Shift added case to low and
leave original case in 2WD. (I like this option)
3-You will have a longer front drive shaft for more travel (I do not
have that much travel at this time to worry about it yet). BUT, you
will spend more money on having your driveshafts lengthend and shortend.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 19:12:06 -0600
From: loki@crestedbutte.net
Subject: Marvin
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon Miller wrote:
>
> I have been patiently waiting for over a month now Marlin's crawler
> gears and now he says it is going to be another month. I don't want to
> wait and I am wondering if anybody can give the details on installing a
> dual setup, this is one thing that I haven't read any how to's on. I
> have a spare transfer case, but I don't have a press. Any tips
> appreciated.
> Brandon Miller
Boy, that must be rough. saving all that money ,feeling the ''big
purchase'' buzz, those visions of boulders slowly passing under your
tire, and then to be denied . I hope it comes soon. by the way, what do
you figure the overall cost difference is between the 4 to 1
gears(1,000.00)? and the dual transfer including driveshaft mods. sounds
like Marlin's shop is doing a little crawling........ Rob Boyle
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 19:46:01 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marvin
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Yeah, it is quite a bummer... in fact I think I am gonna go but some
new tires (35" BFG MT's) to tide me over. I figure the price is nearly
the same either way, but the crawler gears is a lot less work and is a
lot quicker. One of the reasons I would like to do the double set up is
that I have an 83 and I would like to put in a newer transmission which
would require driveline mods, that way I wouldn't be spending more for
drivelines if I did it at the same time.
Here's the cost coparo:
CRAWLER GEARS
Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Gear Kit (21 or 23 Spline)
Complete Low Range Gear Set
Front Bearings
Factory Gasket, seal kit
Transmission output Seal............................$849.00
Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Complete Transfer Case Assembly
4.70:1 gear kit installed in cleaned and inspected rebuilt
transfer case
Must state year and type of truck - Carb. or EFI
Additional refundable core charge - $150.00.........$995.00
DUAL SET UP
Marlin Crawler Dual Transfer Case Adapter Kit
Aluminum adapter housing
Speedometer cable extension
Keyway for shift fork
Gasket seal set
New oversize mainshaft or coupler with
bearings as required...............................$499.00
Marlin Crawler Dual Transfer Case Unit
Adapter Kit
Factory shifter, knob and base
Reconditioned gear reduction assembly...............$799.00
So...
The bottom line is that the dual is actually more because you need
another transfer case, and driveline mods. I have a spare transfer case
so it is pretty close. You also need to move your crossmember back with
the dual set up but Northwest has an adapter that makes that pretty
easy.
Marlin Crawler 4.70:1 Transfer Case Installation - Complete
$1,195.00
Fluids as needed
Final inspection and test run
Marlin Crawler Dual Transfer Case Installation - Complete
$1,395.00
Adapter unit attached to existing transfer case
Drive line modifications as required
Additional shifter installed with boot
Fluids as needed
Final inspection and test run
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 09:53:19 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Well, I am finally starting to install my dual t-case after about a
month. So far everything is going O.K. I decided to pull my trans out
to replace the clutch at the same time. The dual case bolted up fairly
easy. I would recommend bolting the two t-cases together then bolt on
the trans. I was installing the cases with my trans sitting on the
bellhousing and the adapter used to bolt to original case does not leave
much room to tighten the nuts. I have the trans and t-cases ready to go
back in and have the hole cut into the floor. I hope tomorrow I will
have the trans back in. Then all I have to do is get my driveshafts
(rear one shortened and a complete new front.) Hopefully I will be
driving again on Wednesday with the rear driveshaft. I will then get
some front springs to move my front axle forward before I order my front
driveshaft. I will let everyone know how it works.
Tony.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 07 Jun 1997 21:52:37 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
What kind of springs move your axle forward? I was thinking of
drilling a hole about an inch behind the existing hole on the spring
perch to move the axle forward but I have not heard of springs that do
that. I would be interested in hearing more about the dual install
since I will be picking up one any day now. did you weld on the keyway
piece? How was pressing out the old thingamabobber and putting it into
the other place. I sound vague because I don't know the procedure but I
will be doing it next week. Were there easy to follow directions? What
parts did you need and what mods were necessary? What were your costs?
Any input appreciated
Brandon
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:25:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: JMAX71@aol.com
Subject: Marlin Dual Case
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Just wanted to clear up a small misconception about the dual t-case set up,
you DO NOT have to move the cross member back with Marlins dual set up,
unless you have a very large lift (over 6 inches I believe).
Sorry about your wait, Marlin is a small shop with a very large demand, and
he is almost always in the shop til after 10 o'clock at night, at the
earlyest, trying to get everybodies orders filled. But I can tell you from
experience, THERE WORTH THE WAIT!
Jason
85 SWB, XTRA CAB, SUPER STUB BED, 33s, 5.29s, Marlin Crawler Gears #0001
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 17:57:51 -0700
From: rmurray@gvn.net (Rick Murray)
Subject: Marlin alternative
To: TOY4X4@TLCA.ORG
Before Marlin, the original double t-case was the JeepEater transfer case,
marketed by TRIK Performance in Roseville, Ca. Jack O'Brien is marketing
this alternative to Marlin. The name of the new company is "4 Wheel West".
The phone number is the same as that of TRIK Performance (which doesn't
exist any more) 916-773-FAST (3278) .
Chris Collard would also be happy to take calls and answer a few questions
about the JP eater. He is no longer involved with it, but helped design it.
His home number is 916-624-9161.
Either one can tell you how it compares with the Marlin unit.
##################################################################
Rick Murray stock 22R motor ; 3" ProComp Lift
84 Toyota 4Runner SR5 33" BFG M/Ts ; 4.88 gears
Rancho Cordova, Ca. Rancho 9000's ; on-board air
http://www.gvn.net/~rmurray/ Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD
##################################################################
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:27:00 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marlin alternative
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have been talking to both Marlin and Chris for quite some time and I
don't care who was first because it was close but Jack has a way on
bashing on Marlin and I will never buy from someone like that. FYI Jack
has a replacement case with 4.7 gears too, but he uses newly machined
case parts etc and will be charging big bucks. I came to the conclusion
that they both have good products but Marlin doesn't try to tell you
that everything else will fall apart like Jack does. They are both
helpful, I have spent hours talking about things not even related to
their gearboxes and they are a wealth of info but choose sides
carefully. Jack is actually using Marlin's gears in his cases and he
resplines old parts as to where Marlin uses new ones. I could go on
forever but I am choosing Marlin as soon as he has what I want!
Brandon (I'll be crawling after next weekend for sure!)
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:10:08 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon Miller wrote:
>What kind of springs move your axle forward? I was thinking of
>drilling a hole about an inch behind the existing hole on the spring
>perch to move the axle forward but I have not heard of springs that do
No off-the-shelf type store bought kind of springs move the axle forward
and 1" but you can do just as you describe and drill the hole 1" from
the original spring center pin hole and move the axle forward an 1".
This does solve a bit of tire rubbing problems but it does cause other
problems also. Personally, if I had it to do over again I'd probably
have moved the axle forward 1.5" if not 2", especially now that I have
crossover steering and the drivers side draglink binding/limiting travel
is not a problem any more.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 09 Jun 1997 09:58:47 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon, you asked how it was to install the 'kit'. I know better of
myself to buy a 'kit', it would have taken me years to put it together.
I bought the ready to bolt on t-case from marlin. It bolted on fairly
easy and if I have the hole in the floor cut correctly I should have no
problems. I do plan on making a custom crossmember for the cases
though.
So for your 'kit' question I do not know the answers. But, if you have
any questions I am sure Marlin will not hesitate to help out over the
phone. Good luck with the kit.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:47:39 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I spoke to Marlin about a month ago regarding the "kit" or already
assembled 'case. He stated that a small modification was needed to the
inside of the case itself to accomodate the larger gears. No biggie, you
just need a die grinder or mini grinding tool to get into what he called
a restictive area. I think he is talking about one of the several "ribs"
that are on the rear case in front of the extension housing.
I too considered the kit (figured I could R&R the gears myself and
O/Haul the transfer as well) but the price difference was'nt worth my
time...The gear set is $849.00. A complete transfer with the gears and
overhaul is $995.00.
The only stumbling block I ran into was "No gears for two months",
according to Marlin.
As Tony mentioned, call Marlin. He is very friendly (and likes to talk,
so set some time aside for the phone call).
Good luck on your decision.
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
Stock 4.10 gears
Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
Patiently awaiting gears...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:42:01 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jack Alford wrote:
> No off-the-shelf type store bought kind of springs move the axle forward
> 1" but you can do just as you describe and drill the hole 1" from
> the original spring center pin hole and move the axle forward an 1".
> This does solve a bit of tire rubbing problems but it does cause other
> problems also.
What problems, because I will be doing this soon. I am not happy with
my articulation and I was wondering what setup you are using on your
front axle. I am running a 4" Trailmaster kit, no sway bar, hyme joint
torque rod and stock shackles. I am plenty high with the 4" springs and
a 2" body lift with 35's on the way but I thinking of getting softer and
lower springs for the front and using the conn-fer shackles that are
sitting in a box in my garage. I believe this will make my tire come
back even more but should give me more travel. With some fender
trimming and possibly moving the axle forward (isn't a 110" wheel base
long enough?) I shouldn't rub. I don't have any straight axle friends
so I don't know what people are doing to run 35's. My 33's don't rub
except under extreme situations and I can live with that but the 35's
will definately rub. Shew, hope I din't lose you.
Brandon Miller
TLCA #(don't know yet, it has been over two months and they say it is on
the way still)
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
Soon to have Marlin Crawler
83 Toy LB
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 21:47:50 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Tony Bartlett wrote:
>
> Brandon, you asked how it was to install the 'kit'. I know better of
> myself to buy a 'kit', it would have taken me years to put it together.
> I bought the ready to bolt on t-case from marlin. It bolted on fairly
> easy and if I have the hole in the floor cut correctly I should have no
> problems. I do plan on making a custom crossmember for the cases
> though.
>
> So for your 'kit' question I do not know the answers. But, if you have
> any questions I am sure Marlin will not hesitate to help out over the
> phone. Good luck with the kit.
Actually he is putting mine together to, but that doesn't mean that he
is putting it in so before I do it I wanted to know what I was going to
run into. Just a hole in the floorboard with a sawsall and
drivelines,eh? When you say ready to bolt in do you mean ready to bolt
to your existing transfer case or the whole enchilada, both cases. He
is setting mine up but I think that it is only one case and the adapter,
keyway welded and shaft pressed on. Can't say for sure yet because I
haven't got it yet.
Brandon
http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 08 Jun 1997 22:18:44 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Marlin Crawler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
James Brink wrote:
> Patiently awaiting gears...
I gave up waiting and I am going to get the dual setup, as far as the
crawler gears go, the main mod is grinding the shift fork and I too
believe it is worth the money for the preassembled deal but I am not
going to wait any longer, summer only lasts so long...
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 09 Jun 1997 11:59:16 -0700
From: Robert Elsemore
Subject: T-case gears for V6
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org (Return requested),
>From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
>Subject: Marlin X-case mods for a V6 with auto tranny...
>does anyone know if there's any mods for the 4runner (90) x-case with a v6 and
>an auto tranny? i know 'four wheeler' mag did one but this one has the manual
>tranny a few months back.
Leo, I think that article was referring to Jack O'Brien's JPeater gears.
I think you probably saw Rick Murray's posting with the info for 4 Wheel
West, if not, here it is again: 916-773-FAST (3278) Give Jack a call!
It's too bad the Brandon Miller had such a negative experience when he talked
with Jack O'Brien in the past. I believe that the JPeater is a good product.
In fact, there are at least a half dozen people in my 4WD club that are using
JPeaters and no one has ever had any problems.
- -Rob Elsemore, 85 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 9 Jun 1997 23:53:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: JMAX71@aol.com
Subject: Marlin dual case
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
The Marlin Crawler Dual case "kit" comes with the crawl box, and the adapter
all put togeather. To install it you have to unbolt your drive lines, cross
member, and transfer case. You then bolt up the crawl box to your transfer
case, and then bolt the whole thing up to your tranny.
That's the quick and dirty, not including drive lines, the extra hole in the
floor board, etc.
I have the gears, and I love them. I have a couple of buddies with the dual
case, and they feal the same way about them. We have had ZERO problems.
Jason, TLCA #4585
85 SWB Xtra Cab, Super Stub Bed, 5.29s, 33s, Marlin Crawler Gears #0001
P.S. See ya at Rubicon!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 09:45:54 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin dual t-case (brandon)
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon, Marlins ready to bolt on t-case is pretty much just that.
Remove your old t-case install his case then bolt yours up to the
adapter. Make a hole in the floor, move the crossmember and mount to
his case and adjust your driveshafts. Thats it in a nutshell. One
thing though, there is not much room to bolt on your case to the
adapter. They left just enough room to get the nuts on and fit a wrench
to tighten it. I had my transmission out (changing the clutch) but I am
sure it can be done with the trans in the truck.
Oh, there is one other thing that needs to be done. There is a shaft on
your original t-case that has to be cut (die grinder) close to being
flush with the case. He has a picture telling you what to cut so it is
not that bad.
Mine is finally installed, I installed the rear driveshaft today.
Actually it feels lower than I thought it would. Should meet my trail
needs for at least a year or two. Then move up to one case with 4.7:1
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:08:28 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin prices
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Anybody working at a dealership (or any shop for that matter) gets a
good discount from marlin if paying with a company check (I hear it is
something like 100 off the price). He also gives discounts for bulk
orders (two or more). or if you get a dual t-case with 4.7 installed.
You would have to call him for exact info. I did not know about the
savings until after I bought mine or I probably would have tried to get
it.
Tony.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jun 1997 12:02:23 -0700
From: Robert Elsemore
Subject: JP Eater information
To: DRMO33@aol.com (Return requested), Toy4x4@tlca.org (Return requested)
>Could someone give a run-down of the JP eater? parts, what it takes to
>install, etc.
>
>David
>DRM033@aol.com
Here's some info I got from an old TRIK Performance flyer: The JP Eater is a dual transfer case set up similar to Marlin's (of course that wasn't on the flyer).
It is 6.375 inches long and can be installed without moving your transmission
crossmember, exhaust, extending the speedo cable, or cutting holes in your
floorboard. It gives 127% gear reduction in low range (which is supposedly
83.34:1 with stock 4.10 gears). Naturally, you will have to shorten your rear
driveline and lengthen the front.
The current vendor for the JP Eater is Jack O'Brien at 4 Wheel West.
His number is 916-773-3278
Hope that helps.
- -Rob E.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 16:22 -0600 (MDT)
From: "JC Nordyke"
Subject: JP Eater information
To: "Jack Alford (Administrator)"
>Robert Elsemore wrote:
>It is 6.375 inches long and can be installed without moving your transmission
>crossmember, exhaust, extending the speedo cable, or cutting holes in your
>floorboard. It gives 127% gear reduction in low range (which is supposedly
>83.34:1 with stock 4.10 gears). Naturally, you will have to shorten your rear
>driveline and lengthen the front.
Does anyone know if you have 3 different sets of gears(Hi, Lo, Lo-Lo)
in the JP Eater? From what I understand in the above information,
you only have one shifter, and I took that to mean that there were
only 2 sets of gears(Hi, Lo-Lo). If this is the case then it's just
like putting a set of Marlin gears in your existing Xfer case. Then
you wouldn't have any driveline mods. If you like doin driveline
mods go for the dual Xfer case from Marlin. Then you'd have a middle
set of gears for that 6.375 inches. If you like the JPeater, I would
suggest calling Marlin and getting a speedo cable extension, he'd gladly
sell ya one. I think that they're about $25. Cheaper than a new Speedo
cable.
***THIS IS NOT A PAID ADVERTISEMENT FOR MARLIN'S CRAWLER GEARS OR DUAL
XFER SETUP. (Just my humble opinion.)***
JC Nordyke
jc.nordyke@mci.com
'86 Shortie Pickup '88 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 21:41:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: LT11277@aol.com
Subject: JP Eater
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Currently the JP Eater does come with a second Lo shifter giving you a total
of 15 forward and 3 Reverse. This config required a second hole cut in the
floor 6.375 inches back to accomodate the shifter. They do carry a Single
shifter unit that shifts both T-cases at the same time. Last I talked to
them, they were still working out a Dual Shifter in the stock location model.
All units bolt right up and evidently require no modification except the
hole in the floor board and changing the drive shafts 6.375inches. If you
call their number (916-773-3278) they're always happy to answer any
questions. If their not there, you can leave a message and someone usually
calls back, or you can at least ask for a brochure. Just leave the
information they ask for. Any Question E-mail me at LT11277@aol.com
LT
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:56:35 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Tricks...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Now that everyone is getting about 60 messages a day I'm sure not too
many people will read this but I have some tips. First, I went down to
Fresno to pick up my dual transfer (#98) from Marlin. Just a side not,
while I was at his shop on Sunday (Father's Day) he drilled, tapped, and
put helicoils in my stripped steering knuckles, put my driveline splines
in the correct position and tightened the nut on my transfer case and
all for free. That is why I would rather buy from Marlin. His truck is
full of ideas, I'll save the engine for later but I liked the way he
flipped the u-bolts so that the nuts are now on top and give about two
more inches of clearance (I can tell you what pads he used, etc.) and he
has the inclonometer that seems to be so popular right now. Just as an
update:
My first attempt at charging my wrecking yard A/C resulted in finding
out that I had a bad compressor
My second attempt (after replacing the compressor) resulted in a blown
hose
I have gotten a new hose but I have started on getting my new crawler in
so the A/C is on hold
I unbolted my transfer case and I will be bolting up my crawler
tomorrow, no problems so far. If anybody else has done this, how did
you cut the hole in the floorboard, and did you do it with the transfer
case set up in place?
Thanks
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 1997 11:23 -0600 (MDT)
From: "JC Nordyke"
Subject: Tricks...
To: "Jack Alford (Administrator)"
>I unbolted my transfer case and I will be bolting up my crawler
>tomorrow, no problems so far. If anybody else has done this, how did
>you cut the hole in the floorboard, and did you do it with the transfer
>case set up in place?
Do you have a bench seat or buckets? With a bench seat you get to
bend and bend and bend that second shifter until it works. The biggest
problem with bending the shifter is that when you bend it forward,
you have to watch how far you bend it. If you use a factory shift
boot the thickness of the boot tends to want to push the shifter out
of gear if you bend the shifter too far forward. Also if you bend
the shifter far forward you have to account for this in making a larger
hole. If you have buckets you won't have any of these problems. When
I did this I measured from the center of the Hi-Lo shift tower to the
center of the Xfer shift tower. I then took this measurement and measured
back from the original Xfer shift hole and cut a hole similar in size
directly behind. If I recall correctly the hole was on the narrow
part of the tunnel so it might be easier if you took and made a template
of the original hole with some medium weight cardboard. In my case
I had to cut some more out of the hole after I had installed the dual
case setup because I had a bench seat at the time. I now have MR2
seats in there and a custom made console(with cupholders). If you
keep the rear hole close to the same size as the front one then you
can use a factory shift boot. I went to a junk yard and bought a used
one that had the metal with it. I think that it cost around $15.
I took it and cut it in half, it comes as both crashbox and xfer shift
boot all one piece. Then I cut the metal piece so that it was just
a square, not an eight. Then I bent the rear corners a bit so that
I could put the sheet metal screws in straight. Looks like factory,
works like factory. That rubber boot keeps out the gear oil smell.
Sorry for the lengthy description. Any more questions let me know.
JC Nordyke
jc.nordyke@mci.com
'86 Shortie Pickup '88 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Jul 1997 16:32:06 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #294
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
> 2- Has anyone thought of linking together more than one marlin crawler
> case? Just an idea....
>
Marlin has three in a row with something like 1009:1, the proble is that
your crossmember comes back and you lose clearance, the other problem is
that the angle on the driveshaft is extreme, you need a longbed with the
short one piece transmission
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 04 Jul 1997 10:33:59 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Front Drive Shaft (measuring correctly when buying new one)
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
For everyone out there who might be upgrading there front drive shaft
because of a Marlin dual case or longer travel springs I found out that
the way I thought I should measure the length was the wrong way.
I thought that the front driveshaft would be the shortest at full
compression on the passenger side, therefore the longest lenght would be
at full droop on passenger. This is basically correct, it is just how
you get your droop and compression.
Lets see, full compression, lift left rear tire to stuff right front
into the fender. Full droop, lift right rear tire to fully droop right
front. There is one problem, when doing so you either compress or droop
the drivers side.
Whats the problem? Well if you have the passengers front tire at full
droop while having the drivers front at full compression your front axle
is at an angle, so as the drivers side comes out of compression the
front diff will drop down further.
I measured mine using the lift the rear tire method. When I went to
install it I had my truck on a lift with all tires drooping. My
driveshaft was about 2 inches to short for FULL droop (both tires off
the groung, possibly attaching a strap or something and pulling the axle
towards the floor as much as possible). Not only was my driveshaft too
short, my splines would now be to short for the difference between full
droop to full compression.
Well, even if I measured correctly the driveshaft shop used the wrong
flange to connect the driveshaft to the transfercase. So back to the
shop it goes.
I think lifting the left rear tire to compress the passenger front would
be good for checking short length. This because the diff is near the
passenger side and I would think it would be very unlikely to get both
front springs hitting their bumpstops (except maybe winching from a
point above what you are hooked to).
Hopefully no one else has done this. But, asking my friends what they
would do to measure the lengths they all thought the same thing.
Tony.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:51:38 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Marlin T-Case
To:
>I took a cruise by Marlin's website and I have some questions now, for
>anyone who has one of these things....
>
>I'm mostly interested in the dual tcase. The 4.7 gears sound like they are
>really limiting.
>
>Anyways with respect to the Dual Tcase, it says 'Bolt on unit; No Welding
>Required'. So what's the deal with the tranny crossmember? Doesn't it
>have to get moved???
No. the adapter goes behind the original case so the crossmember still bolts
up.
>What are:
> Keyway for shift fork?
Gotta weld that one or have him weld it. He did it for me
> Multiple Shift Locations available?
>
You don't have to have three shifters, but then you might as well get the
4.7.
>Anyone have the lowdown on this?
>
>Scott.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 00:23:32 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Marlin T-Case
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I've got a few questions myself.#1 If you choose only one shifter,then
are both low ranges activated, or can you select one high one low,both
low etc?If its just both low,and you only want one shifter,might as well
get the 4.7 single case.#2 why then did Fourwheeler mag have to relocate
the tranny Xmember? Any idea on prices? I was planning on a 4.7 case,but
now i think i'll order a dual setup(maybe i should get a wife like
Jay's).
Darren
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 22:20:41 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Marlin T-Case
To:
The early crawlers were different, it was a requirement to move the
crossmember. I think marlin has a deal where both the shifters come out at
the same spot and that is one of the shifter locations for more $$$
Call Marlin, seriously he'll talk your ears off with details, there is no
better source for info! I have even called him for other unrelated
questions, he is VERY helpful.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 09:04:20 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Marlin T-Case
To: Toyota 4x4 List
Darren Floen wrote:
>I've got a few questions myself.#1 If you choose only one shifter,then
>are both low ranges activated,or can you select one high one low,both
>low etc?If its just both low,and you only want one shifter,might as well
>get the 4.7 single case.#2 why then did Fourwheeler mag have to relocate
>the tranny Xmember?Any idea on prices?I was planning on a 4.7 case,but
>now i think i'll order a dual setup(maybe i should get a wife like
>Jay's).
I checked on the 6 3/8" (I think) Ice Crawler. They told me it is not
necessary to relocate the crossmember. Price was $499 for the
kit. You need to weld the shift fork key and provide a second
transfer case.
As I sit here looking at a picture of Good 'Ole Toy on its roof, it
looks like it has the 11" dual case kit in it.
I have a question from a friend.......Anyone running a Marlin
dual case (which one) on a standard bed truck with maybe
4" or so of lift? How is your driveshaft angle and did you find
you had to install a CV on the rear driveshaft?
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 1998 20:13:12 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Marlin T-Case
To: Toy4x4
I have an '85 X-cab, I did not have to relocate my crossmember to put on
a dual t-case. But, if you do not you have to notch the crossmember for
your driveshaft to clear. See a picture of the notch I made in my
technical section on my web page.
http://www.digitialpla.net/~offroader
If you relocate this will not be neccessary.
A friend of mine got the dual t-case kit. It was very straight forward
with no difficulties. Remember you need a second case in the first
place.
Jay, what year of vehicle is your friend talking about. I have two
friends with 80-83 body styles with dual cases and standard bed. I
think one went with the rear cv and the other did not. We will be
wheeling with them this weekend so I will ask if there are any problems.
Tony
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Feb 1998 21:00:52 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 82 toy with dual t-cases
To: Toy4x4
Mainly for Jay, A friend of mine has a standard bed early model
toyota. He has a 5 inch suspension lift with longer shackles. He went
with the cv type driveshaft in the rear but removed it because it was
causing vibrations.
He thinks that it is not enough angle to run a cv type properly. I do
not know if you can have to little angle or not.
He installed a normal driveshaft and everything is pretty much back to
normal.
Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:55:04 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 82 toy with dual t-cases
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
You can't use a CV type joint unless you rotate the rear pinion up so that
it points directly to the transfer case, very expensive to do correctly.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 09:26:44 -0800
From: "wg"
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 81 toy with dual tcases
To:
Just to add my .02 to this. I have an 81 toy shortbed with dual tcases
and I run a rear driveshaft with a CV. No vibration and I know for a fact
that the angle would have been far to steep to run a normal driveshaft.
Long ago when I spoke with Marlin he mentioned to me that 1/2 of the
shortbed pickups he was doing dual tcases on needed to have a
rear driveshaft with a CV.
Wil
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:08:09 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 82 toy with dual t-cases
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Your friend probably forgot to rotate the rear axle. It needs to
rotated so that there is no angle where the Single speed Cardan enters.
Another trick to reduce driveline angles is to rotate the axle up to the
opposite angle. This works fine up front, but in the rear, vibration
starts as soon as the suspension moves in either direction.
Runar.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 10:08:33 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 82 toy with dual t-cases
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
No! It's not a problem with the drive shaft, it's the angle of the U
joint at the rear end. You have to cut the rear axle and rotate it up
and reweld it. You might be able to use the taco rear end with it's
drive shaft.
Look at the front end of a non lifted 2 Gen Toyota, this is the proper
way to install a CV joint. The drive shaft comes strait out from the
pinion. Then the CV joint takes the angle between the drive shaft and
the transfer case without problem.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 6 Feb 1998 13:37:22 EST
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Rear driveshaft on 82 toy with dual t-cases
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
What does cutting & rewelding the rear axle have to do with anything? If you
mean the perches only, then yes. But I see no reason to touch the tubes -
unless you are maybe dealing with rear coils - and I still think there are
better ways.
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 07:31:10 -0700 (PDT)
From: Darrell Creeks
Subject: Marlin gears
I've been going to the Rubicon since 1974. I installed the crawler gears in
the winter of '96, and the summer of '97 was THE MOST comfortable trip I've
ever had. It's real nice not bouncing the wife and kids all over the place.
Its also nice taking five trips in, in one year and not breaking anything.
Goning slow make all the difference. I'd recommend the gears before any
other midification.
- -Darrell Creeks: '83 SR5, custom faltbed, custom rollbar, lincoln locker in
the -rear, 4.7:1 Marlin t-case, with 5:71 R&Ps, 36x12.50 TSL Swampers, 8274
Warn 8000 lb -winch, 3.5" springs, 3" body lift, custom spring mounts front
and rear.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 10:00:16 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Re: marlin crawler gears
If you think you've got a good truck without Marlin gears, you'll think you've
got a SUPER truck with his gears. Even around the south the difference is
incredible !
Marlin really isn't making anywhere near 200% on the gears ... To be making
that kind of markup he'd have to send his gears off to Taiwan and have about
4 million sets made out of cheap steel which he isn't doing. Having an
independent machinist make such small runs as he does isn't cheap and there
really isn't a market to have gigantic production runs made that would
equal such lower costs for the consumer ... Simple economics. Look into making
and selling a few parts of your own and you'll quickly understand why small
businesses that make parts come and go so quickly.
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 05 May 1998 15:30:29 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Re: marlin crawler gears
>I believe he has Advance Adapters making the gears. I know some of the
>parts for the dual box comes from them.
AA makes the adapters for the dual case setups. Or I should say that someone
makes the adapters for AA. Marlin has an independent guy who cuts the gears
for him. Since the guy has a small shop, it takes him a while to change for
production runs. If you've called and been told he was waiting on gears, that
was why. Sometimes it's months between runs.
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 00:10:23 EDT
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: thoughts on working on your truck...
Now that I am nearing the end of my latest modification ordeal (driveshafts
will be picked up tomorrow), I have a few thoughts to share, nay, even some
wisdom. These all result from the last 3 weeks of broken tranny housing-
replaced tranny-replaced clutch-Marlin crawler install-driveshaft mod barrel
of fun I have been involved in. Take these as you wish - some are positive,
some ar negative...
1. You WILL end up with a few bolts left over.
2. Marlin's instructions to simply "disassemble the donor transfer case" is a
little understated.
3. One of the nuts in the frame for the support cross-member WILL break free
(and inevitably cause a very annoying rattle in the future)
4. You CAN create a SST for removing driveshaft flanges with 2 bolts & a piece
of 1" sq. tubing.
5. You CANNOT find a an extra transfer case shifter knob or proper shifter
boot in a hurry.
6. Salvage Yards will NOT sell you just the brackets for a bench seat, even
though you offer to pay the price for what the seat would cost. (don't even
ask for logic on that)
7. In the last 15 min. of just about any project with a deadline (big event
this weekend), you WILL forget *everything* you know about working on your
truck. (NOTE: during this brain freeze is where friends & family are
invaluable)
8. Safety glasses save eyes, but don't stop you from getting 1" gashes right
next to the eye.
9. The local driveshaft shop will screw you over & you have to take it with a
smile when you are on a deadline.
10. Broken things SUCK.
David
DRM033@aol.com
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 06 Jun 1998 00:45:56 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Dual Transfer
>
Hey all just finished installing a dual T case via Marlin. I did it all by
myself using a 91 tranny/transfer along with an 83 transfer at the end,
WOW that thing is long!!!Any ways I was really amazed at how easy it was
to set up the new case, I did spend a few min on the phone with Marlin he
said he's got some new and improved instructions on the way. For anyone
considering this setup up I can tell you that as a first timer for cracking
open any kind of gearbox it's not that bad it took my about an hour to
breakdown the transfer and install the new output shaft and adapter;
I'm really looking forward to the 15 forward speeds ;-)
Marlin is a super guy and he can put up with a lot of "huh's" and
"I don't understand" I really tested him on this ;-)
Any ways only advice I can give is have a friend help with the tranny
install "I did it myself" it's not too fun with the bell housing on your
knees while benching the transfer end of the case not to sure what the heck
the thing weights but I can tell you the transfer end will make breathing
difficult while sitting on your chest.
Sheldon Gardner
atzmkt@flnet.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 08 Jun 1998 17:19:17 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Dual Transfer
Sheldon Gardner wrote:
>Hey all just finished installing a dual T case via Marlin.
snip
Me too. Got mine in this past weekend. Wasn't too bad doing the
crawl box conversion. I now know lots more about Toyota transfer
cases too.
It was gonna cost me $130 to have one of my one-piece driveshafts
retubed (damaged) and balanced, and get two new u-joints installed.
For $150 the guy built me a new driveshaft from scratch. However,
this one uses slightly thicker tube, uses standard Spicer 1310 (about
the most common American) u-joints and uses aftermarket, beefier
flanges at each end.
The biggest parts of the project turned out to be reworking my custom
crossmember skidplate and my exhaust. I made a new skidplate that now
goes farther back to cover the extended transfer case. I notched the front
of my crossmember to allow for more driveshaft clearance. I aslo had
to rework my exhaust y-pipe somewhat.
Looks pretty cool with the two shifters coming outta the floor.....least
it will once I build a new console around 'em.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 14:45:15 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Dual Transfer
> Me too. Got mine in this past weekend. Wasn't too bad doing the
> crawl box conversion. I now know lots more about Toyota transfer
> cases too.
>
A big roger on that, me too, as a matter of fact I'd bet I could tear
one down to just parts and get it back togetherAmazing how simple it
is... Now the 5 speed that scares me;-)
> It was gonna cost me $130 to have one of my one-piece driveshafts
> retubed (damaged) and balanced, and get two new u-joints installed.
> For $150 the guy built me a new driveshaft from scratch. However,
> this one uses slightly thicker tube, uses standard Spicer 1310 (about
> the most common American) u-joints and uses aftermarket, beefier
> flanges at each end.
I had my Six States unit shortened pretty steep U-joint angles but it will
do for now.
> The biggest parts of the project turned out to be reworking my custom
> crossmember skidplate and my exhaust. I made a new skidplate that now
> goes farther back to cover the extended transfer case. I notched the front
> of my crossmember to allow for more driveshaft clearance. I aslo had
> to rework my exhaust y-pipe somewhat.
>
I reused the stock crossmember drilling 1/2 holes in the bottom of the
frame 2 on each side and the crossmember. A little bit of the member
sticks out but no big deal, I do plan on adding some sort of skid plate
that thing is way long. Only drawback I can see is that the crossmember
sits pretty far back, especially on my 83 shortbed so I'll have to get
used to it being there instead of 6 inches more forward. Ditto on the
exhaust no biggie just one of those unexpected things that always seem
to pop up.
> Looks pretty cool with the two shifters coming outta the floor.....least
> it will once I build a new console around 'em.
>
I went the stealth approach all you see are the regular two shifters the
rear shifter pokes up into the centerconsole " I like the arm rest in the
center way too comfy to give up". I figure I don't always go into 4 wheel
all the time so I can put up with opening it up to shift into 4wd.
>
So you now have the reduction box and the transfer with crawler gears???
NOW THAT'S LOW.....
You get any kind of gear chatter from the reduction box at speed such as
when coasting?
- --
Sheldon Gardner
A to Z Marketing Inc.
atzmkt@flnet.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 09 Jun 1998 10:52:38 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Dual Transfer
> Sheldon, sounds like your truck is getting pretty tricked out. What did
> the dual case set you back$.
525 for the adapter about 150 bucks for both driveshafts and about 30 bucks
in misc. items such as gear oil some 1/2 bolts to remount the crossmember
back etc... I
> hope to be doing the same thing shortly.
It's great and way slow, you have 4.88's like me I can tell you that you
can put it in first gear low low and walk beside the truck, I have to
slow down to not outpace it ;-)
> You put the tranny in solo!
I found a better way to do the tranny on Sat night. The reduction box was
making a lot of noise when not under any load at speed such as between
shifts. I thought I did something wrong cus it sounded like a bearing was
gone or something.All I did was remove the six bolts that attach the
transfer or in this case the reduction box and slid the transfer and
reduction box out together, it went in just about that easy also, taking
it down took all of a half hour getting it up was only a little more!!!.
Turns out after talking to Marlin the reduction dual setup makes a lot
noise because the new output shaft rides on one bearing and has no
preload, unlike the old mainshaft with the two bearings and flange nut
at the end to keep it tight and stop floating. Under load forward or
reverse at speed there is no noise but coasting it sounds like the gears
are going crazy. I suppose it's just something to live with. Marlin tells
me that excessive driveline angle will only make this noise worse but won't
hurt anything,
A CV on the driveshaft at the transfer would probably solve 90% of the
noise. I'm not running a CV right now but plan to swap over sometime
in the future right now my rear shaft is 39" long so I have bought a
few spare U-Joints! Btu you can swap out a front driveshaft flange to
the rear output and use the Toy CV I ran one for about a year until I
dinged it real bad one night while goofing around, so If you have a
spare front shaft some $$$ could be saved on the driveshaft mods.
> Hell, I thought I was burly taking my 4runners top off by my self.
I'll never try to lift the whole thing again not without a dedicated
tranny jack or lift or something....
Sheldon Gardner
A to Z Marketing Inc.
atzmkt@flnet.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 08:04:14 EDT
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Re: Dual Transfer
I called & talked to Marlin about "going slower" yesterday. I was trying to
decide between the 4.7 gears and the extra gear box. He said I would need a
CV on the rear shaft if I go with the extra box, since the angle will be so
steep. Any thoughts on this? My truck is a 90 standard cab, so the shaft is
not super long, but I figured it would handle the angle.
Sheldon, what size tires are you running? I was going to go with 36's, the
main reason he suggested a CV on the rear.
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 00:59:01 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Dual Setup Noise SolVED!!!
> ----------------------------
>
> Date: Wed, 10 Jun 1998 10:27:25 -0700 (PDT)
> From: Luke P Miller
> Subject: Re: Dual Transfer
>
> So this excessive gear noise doesn't exist when you only swap in the 4.70
> gears? Can someone with the drop-in gears give me an idea of whether or
> not this noise will occur?
Okay I discovered the noise prob today.. seems the previous owner of the
transfer had removed the speedo gear and not replaced the little ball
bearing that rides on the mainshaft this bounced around and caused the
Speedo gear to get munched... Now while there I noticed the oil slinger
behind the speedo gear wouldn't move forward or back on the the mainshaft.
Looking closer I noticed that the slinger was not even touching the
bearing behind it!!!! Got it off with a small gear puller the looked
at the mainshaft, I found a small burr on it that wouldn't let the slinger
move any more forward so no matter how tight I got the flange bolt the
mainshaft was still loose!!!
Took a dremel removed the burr tightened everything up and Wala.. no more
horrible noise, seems it had nothing at all to do with the reduction box.
So I'd say don't be too leery of the dual setup it's a bit less expensive
than just gears. It might take a few more mods like driveshaft shortening
and lengthening and crossmember movement, but 2W low is great that's what
sold me on the dual setup over just gears. With just gears I would have to
be trailing in High range to keep up with everyone else or have to run 3rd
or 4th gear in Low range...
15 forward and 3 reverse is hard to beat...
Sheldon
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 12 Jun 1998 10:38:42 -0700
From: "Bob Williams"
Subject: Re: Dual Setup Noise SolVED!!!
David, I put the dual t-case in my truck, with a 4" lift, (94 4Runner), and
yep, I had drive line problems. Marlin put a cv joint driveshaft on after
the first drive shaft with regular u-joints vibrated too. I ended up with a
driveshaft custom made by Tom Woods at Six States Distributors out of Logan,
Utah.
Turns out the angles were just to much, so as a last resort I dropped my
t-case 1", and that solved the problem. If you have a truck, you have the
advantage of being able to shim your pinion angle up. I can't do that with
a coil spring set up. Go with the dual case though, you'll love it.
Bob Williams, Las Vegas, Nevada - 94 4Runner, SR5, 22RE, 5Spd,
4" Procomp lift, Marlin Crawler, Dual T-case, BFG 33 MT’s, 4.88’s,
lockrite locker front, Detroit Softlocker rear. Dents and scratches
continually increasing in size and number!
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Jun 1998 17:49:01 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: Dual Transfer
First off, I did not notice ANY more noise from my dual setup, secondly -
A friend just had a front driveshaft lengthened to use in the rear but there
is not enough trave in the joint. Money for nothing, bummer. It won't get
enough angle in it to reach down to his axle, It came from and 86 but his
front one (93') has a lot more travel, strange.
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\
Brandon Miller ICQ# 8392888
Sacramento CA
email - miller@csus.edu
home page - http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
/\/\/\/\
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:08:44 -0700
From: "Sterling Rorden"
Subject: Marlin Crawler Installation
I'd would like to solicit some advice about crossmember location when
installing a dual transfer case setup.
I finally decided to place an order for a Marlin Crawler dual transfer case
adapter kit (4-8 weeks lead time!). Since I will be installing a newer
('90) transmission in my '80 truck at the same time, I was planning to move
the crossmember to underneath the second unit to give better support and to
avoid having to "hammer out" the crossmember to clear the front driveshaft.
During my conversation with Marlin I found out he recommends putting the
crossmember underneath the first unit because some of his customers have
problems getting hung up on rocks with the crossmember underneath the second
unit.
I'll probably go with Marlin's advice but would appreciate any comments from
this group.
Also, is it worth buying a later crossmember when installing the later
transmission in a '80 truck?
Sterling
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 20:34:27 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: Marlin Crawler Installation
put 2 of em if ya want, one on each..
- -----Original Message-----
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 23:47:11 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: Marlin Crawler Installation
Jay has one at http://www.netzone.com/~jayk/tcxmem.jpg
Joe has one at http://www2.whidbey.net/locktup/crossmember.htm
When I go up to see Marlin later this month I plan to ask him to about building
a better crossmember and designing a duel tcase shifter so we can get low range
2WD with a single case! I could make someone rich if they could build a few true
off road toy mods.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://www.off-road.com/~geiger
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 12:28:05 -0700
From: "Roger Brown, P.E."
Subject: RE: Marlin Crawler Installation
Ken wrote:
>How about fabricating a new crossmember out of 1x2 or 1x3x1/4" steel tubing?
>Has anyone done it? I remember seeing pictures of a custom crossmember, but
>I don't remember where I saw it.
I know Jay K. has a short writeup on his web page
(http://www.netzone.com/~jayk/)new crossmember brace and the addition he did
for the 2nd one. It appears he used, thinner flat stock with side bracing to
increase the clearance under there. FYI; on mine, Marlin left the cross
member under the front case and did the hammer-mods for the front driveshaft.
Question for the group:
If you add a second crossmember (or fab a new wider one) are there likely to
be any problem if two transmission (i.e. transfer case) mounts are used or
would it be better to stick with one? Anyone have any good suggestions for a
redesigned crossmember?
- --
Roger Brown, P.E. Applications Consulting
mailto:rogerb@sgi.com http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/
+1.650.933.1898 (voice) +1.650.932.1898 (fax)
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 01 Sep 1998 09:08:46 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Marlin Crawler Installation
"Sterling Rorden" wrote:
>I finally decided to place an order for a Marlin Crawler dual transfer case
>adapter kit (4-8 weeks lead time!). Since I will be installing a newer
>('90) transmission in my '80 truck at the same time, I was planning to move
>the crossmember to underneath the second unit to give better support and to
>avoid having to "hammer out" the crossmember to clear the front driveshaft.
>During my conversation with Marlin I found out he recommends putting the
>crossmember underneath the first unit because some of his customers have
>problems getting hung up on rocks with the crossmember underneath the second
>unit.
A friend and I just finished some work on his '80 truck. We swapped his
4 speed for an '86 five speed and installed a Marlin dual case conversion.
My original thought on his and mine was to move the crossmember back
as you mention. However, after talking to Marlin, he recommended leaving
it in place. Case in point......watch a CJ7 sometime cresting a rock ledge.
They hang a lot on their transfer cases due to it being near centered between
the tires. Having ours located more forward from center helps us avoid this
problem, especially with our longer length. I can clear points with my 33s
that CJ7s will hang on with 33s due to two factors......our frames sit higher
by design and our transfer case location......even with length a disadvantage.
Given that, I think the stock location is strategically better.
>Also, is it worth buying a later crossmember when installing the later
>transmission in a '80 truck?
I believe they are the same........
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 09:02:14 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: RE: Marlin Crawler Installation
"Roger Brown, P.E." wrote:
>Question for the group:
>
>If you add a second crossmember (or fab a new wider one) are there likely to
>>be any problem if two transmission (i.e. transfer case) mounts are used or
would it be better to stick with one? Anyone have any good suggestions for a
>redesigned crossmember?
Seems it would be ok to use two if you wanted. On mine I bolted my custom
crossmember in the stock location with a stock rubber mount to the front
gear reduction box. I have a 3/16" plate skidplate welded to my crossmember
and it also bolts to the rear reduction box using a second rubber mount.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 18:39:46 -0700
From: "Sterling Rorden"
Subject: Re: Marlin Crawler Installation
>From what I can tell, the later transmissions are 4 3/4" longer than the
'79-'83 transmissions. The crossmember on my truck mounts to the frame
where the rails are transitioning from the "front axle width" to the
"cab/bed" width. As I see it, this leaves three options for Toyota to
accommodate the longer transmission:
1) Offset the transfer case mounting point on the crossmember so that the
crossmember mounts to the same location on the frame (best for my situation,
but with my luck I doubt it).
2) Widen the crossmember and move the mounting points farther down the
frame. If this is the case, I could get a newer crossmember (instead of
widening mine) and install it farther down the frame.
3) Move the mounting location farther down the frame and keep the
crossmember the same. This would require changing the mounting scheme.
I would appreciate hearing from anyone that might know the answer.
Sterling
>Also, is it worth buying a later crossmember when installing the later
>transmission in a '80 truck?
I believe they are the same........
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
End of Toyota 4x4 digest: V2 #64
********************************
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 03 Sep 1998 12:00:55 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Re: Marlin Crawler Installation
When we did the 4 speed to later 5 speed swap on the '80 truck, we reused
the stock crossmember. We welded on some small pieces of flat bar at each
bolt pair location to essentially widen the bolt pattern a bit. We then
flipped the crossmember 180 degrees (front swapped to back) and marked
and redrilled the holes. We were able to reuse the two rear sets of holes
on the frame. For the other two pairs we used a set of stock (rear I think)
u-bolts over the frame and thru the crossmember. You can thank Marlin for
this u-bolt trick. He got the idea from one of his customers
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Sep 1998 09:00:05 EDT
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Rethink on solid axle swap
I must say that after this wekend with the Marlin installed, I am
reconsidering (or at least delaying) the solid axle swap on my truck.
For the first time on 5 years I have realixed what I guess you could call the
potential of my truck with the IFS. For so long, I was thinking that the IFS
was holding me back, but the low gearing has seemed to take up the slack.
I really like the IFS because there is no tier rod up front, and I can push
into & over a rock on the skid plating. Can't do that with the solid. But,
with the solid I will be able to run larger tires, and maybe go over the same
rock.
Anyway, I do plan to swap axles still, but you won't ever hear another word
from me about the IFS not performing just fine. I even found that travel is
overrated, and it is more about lockers, gearing, and skid plates!
David
DRM033@aol.com
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 23:42:05 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Marlin 2wd lo
I was on the phone talking to Marlin today about installing my new
4:70 tcase and asked him how difficult it would be to modify the
case to allow for 2wd lo range. He thought for a minute and said
that no one had ever asked him about this before so he had never
considered it. He said if there was more demand for it he could
create a dual shifter top and remove a lockout pin inside the case.
This would allow one shifter to control 2wd or 4wd and the other
shifter to control Hi and Lo range. To select 2wd lo you move the
range selector and leave the other shifter in 2wd. The advantage
to this is that most of the time you don't need 4wd even on hard
trails if you have lockers. Often a front locker makes it harder
to turn tight, and shifting into hi range 2wd requires to much
speed and clutch usage. Tight turns on high traction surfaces can
destroy birfield and CV joints. Other solutions include getting
out of the truck to unlock the front hubs or add a second tcase
reduction unit to get access to 2wd lo but that costs another
$1000 and drive line mods. Tcases in many other truck have this
option, Petroworks now includes access to 2wd lo standard with any
gear kit they sell. Jeep and tcases also have similar capabilities.
So if you own a Marlin or are planing to purchase one and would be
interested in having access to 2wd lo please let Marlin know about
it. If enough of us ask, we may get out wish.
Chirs Geiger 93 4Runner http://www.off-road.com/~geiger
Marlin tcase #103 owner!
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 22:22:58 -0600
From: Rob Boyle
Subject: another tranny ?
I had a chance to talk to Marlin(crawler) about my tranny problem. the
symptom is a bearing like noise while letting of the gas or while in
neutral and doing 40mph or better. It sure sounds like my tranny is
making the noise, but Marlin thinks I should look elsewhere for the
noise. He gave his ussual reccomendation of checking motor mounts and
drive shaft yoke alignment, and suggested droping the transfer case
support with some 2x4's as a test for driveline angle problems. When I
suggested that it might be the transfer case output bearing Marlin
really doubted that it could be a transfer case problem. He said it
might also be a rear end problem. But it sure sounds like it is coming
from the tranny, and I can change the noise by pushing the tranny shift
lever around. The noise seems to peak when engine speed = wheel speed
and goes away under acceleration or engine braking. Any ideas or
comments would be helpful. On a positive note, Marlin will rebuild my
tranny for 550 bucks. I cant think of anyone I would rather by a rebuilt
from then Marlin. Did I mention that he took time out of his busy
schedule to help me with my problems, at 10:00 pm. He also said he'll be
field testing the new Birfield joints this monday and have crawler gears
in 2 weeks.
- --
Rob Boyle
85 4Runner
http://www.off-road.com/~cbloki/rob.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Sep 1998 17:23:48 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: IFS Sucks! / Marlin testing...
Ok I finished my Marlin crawler tcase install today. After about an hour of
cleaning up and putting tools away it was time to put it in 4wd lo for the first
time and do some testing. I went up into the back hills of Santa Barbara but the
rangers are closing most of the dirt roads by placing large rocks in the way.
They have no idea that makes for perfect testing grounds. The rocks they place
(using a large skip loader) range is size from about 1' to over 4' high so you
can pick and choose exactly how tough you want it to be. I went over a few
places and found the marlin to be just so wonderful!, Going over rocks is a
breeze and no need to feather the clutch any more, it just idles up stuff. After
conquering all the rocks I could handle I wanted to see how well it would climb
walls, so I pointed my truck up a 50 degree incline and it just crawled up (am I
the only one to carry a protractor in my truck?) As I was crawling up when I
hear a familiar "plink" noise from the front end and down the hill I slide until
I hit the bottom. Yep it's another CV joint blown to bits like a grease filled
hand-grenade! Well pictures of the Marlin tcase install and the hill that broke
the CV can be found on my web page. The outer CV joint seems to be the limiting
factor on my truck now as this is the second CV to fail. This is as far as IFS
can take me. I can see that if I want to go any further I need to cut out the
IFS and get a real axle up front. I will be carrying a spare front axle on trail
runs from now on. I am now adding to my to-do list a solid front axle.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner 93 4Runner http://www.off-road.com/~geiger
No longer an IFS fan!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 20 Sep 1998 10:01:44 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: IFS Sucks! / Marlin testing...
> Chris, I can not beleive you broke a cv climbing that hill. I do not
> own IFS but come on, you were not turning and you would think the tires
> would spin before the cv would break.
Well I was higher up the hill and loosing traction so I was hunting with the
wheels back and fourth and the wheel was turned when the CV joint broke. The
picture was taken after I slid back to the bottom. I also had full pressure
in the tires and they were all spinning but I was only using a tiny bit of
throttle when it snapped.
I also have my torsion bars set at 15" fender to rim. I plan to drop that a
little today as I think this creates more angle than the CV can handle.
> One more IFS fan down the drain. One more to go.
> Now all we have to do is wait for Scott Ellinger to convert.
I don't understand how he keeps CV joints in his truck, he says his ring and
pinion failed after adding the V8 but I have never had a problem the gears,
it's been the CV joints that failed for me. I notice that his CV joint angle
is almost flat, that has to be better on the joint, I hate to loose the
clearance under the front diff, but I can't afford to swap to a solid axle
right away.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://www.off-road.com/~geiger
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 08:48:11 +0000
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Clutch Danger
I am forwarding this info from a friend. He posted it to the ORML as well.
Interesting and certainly applicable to those using Crawler gears........
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Clutch Danger on Low Geared Vehicles
I wanted to share with you an experience of mine with an off-road
vehicle recently. I have not heard of this happening before, nor was I
aware of this potential situation. But this is worth being aware of, I
believe. I was wheeling my 84 CJ-7 a few weeks ago. I had just descended
a rather steep downgrade and was in second gear, low range. The terrain
flattened out to a wide sandy wash, with just a very slight downgrade. I
pushed in my clutch (but left the transmission in gear) and let the vehicle
gradually accelerate down the wash. This not something I normally do, but I
knew that at the end of this wash, (which was about 1/4 mile long), that I
would have to climb a steep upgrade and would have to shift back in second
gear away. When I originally pushed in the clutch the vehicle was
traveling around 2 mph. As I kept the clutch in, the vehicle speed
gradually increased till about a minute later, towards the end of the wash,
the vehicle speed was approx. 20 mph. Just as I was getting ready to apply
the brakes to slow the vehicle down, I heard a loud explosion. This was
the sound of my clutch disc exploding. The clutch disc basically flew
apart due to excessive RPM. The clutch was disengaged, (pedal on the
floor) when this occurred. Engine RPM was at idle. (800 RPM) Because the
clutch disc is splined to the input shaft of the transmission, it turns at
the input shaft speed of the tranny. Because the transmission was in gear,
the input shaft (and clutch) were being driven by the rear wheels of the
vehicle, thru the rear drivetrain, in coast mode. My second gear tranny
ratio is 2.37. My Dana 300 low range reduction is 4.0 (terra-low gears) My
rear end reduction is 4.1 This gives my total gearing ratio at the time of
approx. 39 to 1. At 20 mph, my 33" tires are turning at approx. 211 RPM.
(20/60x5280=1760 FPM) 100" is static loaded circumference of 33". (So
100/12=8.33 and 1760/8.33=211) So through the gear reduction, (in this
case gear amplification because the tranny is being driven by the rear
wheels, 211 x 39 = 8229 RPM. The clutch disc was spinning at over 8000
RPM when it exploded. Stock clutch discs are usually only rated to 6000 or
7000 RPM. Even racing clutch discs are usually only rated to 10,000 RPM.
The clutch disc is the widest part of the drivetrain where the most
centrifugal force is developed. The vehicle exhibited little or no noise
before the explosion. Even the whine of low range transfer case gears was
noticeably absent. (I assume because the gears were not loaded) There was
no way to tell that excessive speed was developing in the clutch disc,
other that being aware of how the vehicle was being operated. Now the
kicker. If the vehicle had still had stock gearing, this destruction of
the clutch never would have happened. Stock gearing on this vehicle is
2.37 tranny, 2.61 transfer case, and 2.73 rear end for a total reduction of
approx. 17 to 1. Clutch speed under this scenario would have been 211 x 17
= 3587 RPM, well within the range of normal clutch speed RPM.
When I discussed this situation with other mechanics and wheelers,
they had never heard of this situation occurring. All thought I must have
released the clutch before the explosion. (Clutches are also rated for the
maximum RPM mismatch during engagement.) But the clutch pedal was fully
down when this occurred.
The moral of this story is to be very careful when coasting a manual
transmission vehicle with considerably lower than stock gearing in either
the tranny, transfer case, rear end, or some combination thereof. Always
shift to Neutral and coast with the clutch out. (engaged) Any manual
transmission vehicle with gearing more than 1.5x to 2.0x lower than stock
is a potential candidate. If you are not thinking about what you are
doing, your vehicle could leave your stranded in the middle of nowhere.
As usual, the biggest variable is the driver. If anyone else has heard of
this happening, (or has had it happen to them), I would appreciate hearing
about it.
David Houk
R17706@email.sps.mot.com
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 23:51:31 -0800
From: "Michael Medart"
Subject: Fw: Clutch Danger
> Subject: Re: Clutch Danger
> Date: Wednesday, November 18, 1998 11:21 PM
>
> As usual, the biggest variable is the driver. If anyone else has heard
of
> this happening, (or has had it happen to them), I would appreciate
hearing
> about it.
>
> David Houk
> R17706@email.sps.mot.com
A friend of mine was doing the Sierra Trek a few years ago in his Wrangler
when he came to a smooth downhill section. He left it in 1st, pushed in the
clutch and started coasting down the hill. Made it about 3/4 of the way
down before his clutch committed suicide. Looked like "Shredded Wheat" when
he fished it out of the housing later on.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Michael Medart, Ventura, CA bigblue@anacapa.net 1988 Toyota 4x4
X-TraCab V-6, Rancho Front/Downey rear 3" lift, 2" body lift, 4.88's
Borla Cat-Back, 33" BFG M/T's on American Racing 15x8 Steel Rims
Detroit E-Z Locker and rear ARB Air Locker, Downey Super Clutch
Rancho RS 9000's w/remote, Con-Ferr shackles/skidplates/roof rack
custom 10 gauge 3" tube rocker panel inserts, 159K trouble-free miles
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Nov 1998 19:56:44 -0800
From: "Sandy and Terry"
Subject: Ultimate Marlin Installed
Got home early this morning from Fresno with my new Ultimate Marlin Crawler
installed. I was also having a new clutch and swapping ring & pinions. On
Monday my truck was stripped from the flywheel all the way back to the rear
axle. Yesterday was spent with reassembly and the dual transfer case
install. Marlin and his mechanic Aaron worked on it last night till it was
completed around midnight.
My clutch still had 70% left even after 156K miles. Marlin wasn't impressed
with the clutch he had ordered for replacement so we put it back in. The
new 4.56 gears gave me back my highway speed, it was nice to be able to
drive in the left lane again. I've had 5.29's the last 2 1/2 years. The
install of the crawler was real sweet. I have bucket seats with a center
console. The front of the console has a change box with 3 screws holding it
in place. We removed the change box and the new shifter fit perfectly in
its place. With the console back together and the boot Marlin uses it looks
like a "factory" install. My axles were also modified to fit the new
crawler. The front axle was lengthened and the rear axle was changed from a
two piece to a one piece axle.
Had fun today at work when I let the truck idle in the parking lot, got out
and let it run by itself. Some folks thought I had installed a remote
control.
I've heard alot of great things about Marlin and I must say they are true.
He is a walking encyclopedia on Toyotas. He is also committed to satisfying
each of his customers and stands behind his product.
Looking forward to the day after Turkey day run,
Terry Johnson
'89 XCab V6 SR5
Pro Comp II 4" lift, locked F&R, 4.56's, 33" BFG M/T's, Warn premium hubs,
Warn XD9000i winch, and.... Ultimate Marlin Crawler T-Case # 296.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Nov 1998 16:22:55 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: A sincere thanks for the clutch disk danger post!
Yes Marlin is aware of this. It happened to him once. He was coming down a
hill and pushed the clutch in to avoid a rollover . He just let the truck
roll to the bottom. After that he had clutch problems but was able to
drive home.
BTW this can also happen in a stock truck. Put the truck in low range first
and go too fast with the clutch in and the clutch is going to blow apart.
Chris Geiger
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 20 Nov 1998 20:06:48 -0800
From: "Persson Off-Road Systems (Drew Persson)"
Subject: Re: Dual Case and 4:1 gearset observations
I installed a JP Eater dual case with an Advance's 4:1 gearset in the
front case about two months ago, here are a few observations:
There definitely noise whenever you depress the clutch going over
about 45 MPH. Reason for this is that the aftermarket gearsets do not
have the stock sheet-metal "anti-backlash gear" pressed into each x-case
gear, which prevents the gear teeth from rattling back and forth between
one another when you are neither accellerating or deaccellerating. This
can be really unnerving the first time, especially if you haven't
reinstalled the shift boots yet and are right above the exposed x-cases!
(scared the heck out of me...thought my brakes were coming apart...)
Also, a little of the inner case housing must be removed to fit the
larger aftermarket gears. On the 4:1, a touch with a die grinder to a rib
is all it takes, depending on your particular casting. The demo Marlin had
at Sierra Trek had a more substantial amount more machined out, which
Marlin does (for free, I beleive) for his customers if requested. Marlin
told me the gear itself will also remove the excess aluminum if you just
put it in, however I would be concerned about such a close fit creating
the "whine" you hear about ocasionally, and wonder about aluminum
shavings drifting around in the gear oil. Guess it must be okay.
I put the 4:1 gears in the front case, partially because I ordered the
case and gears at the same time (so I didn't have to press in the
gears!), and partially because it made more sense at the time.
It just comes down to which gearset you want to use for low 2WD,
the 2.28 or the 4:1. For me, I figured this way if I ever get a
front locker I can shift into 2WD for tight turns on the trail (taking
all the load off the front locker so it will unlock more easily,
theoretically) and still have the 4:1's at work on the rear end.
One thing I do know for sure, I love the low gearing! You can
be climbing up & over a rock, calmly reach over and grab some
"salsa" sunflower seeds, and come back to the task at hand
without missing a beat!
Drew Persson
http://www.jps.net/persson
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 17:54:33 -0800
From: "Hollis Ferris"
Subject: Marlin Arrived!
I finally got my computer back up so here is the message ive been trying to
send for about a week.....
Well, after a long snow run Marlin and his Son finally showed up at my house
with my dual case unit... first time meeting him in person and WOW what a
treat, after unloading my stuff out of his truck he stayed for at least an
hour and a half, explaining to me how it all works, showing me different
things about it, telling me how he got started, how to install and put it
all together,and of course showing his truck off. He is a very
knowledgeable guy that really went the extra mile for me. I can only hope
that I enjoy my Crawler as much as I enjoyed the help, and the service!!
Thanks Marlin!
Hollis Ferris
Black 1988 xtra cab, V6, auto, 4 inch lift,
33in Dunlop Mud Rovers, rear lockright, blown front end!
1984 shortbed!! W/ Dana 44s and Marlin Dual T.Case # 305!!! (project...
coming soon)
------------------------------
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