Alternator
-----------------------------
These are some web sites that are supposed to have altenator info, I
have not checked them out, just list them for your info.
http://www.egrproducts.com/
http://www.altplus.com/
http://www.mousetrap.com/chuys/
http://www.hotrodsworldwide.com/pgs/index.htm
http://www.comevisit.com/polyactive/alternat.htm
http://www.wnmc.net/~hadam/alternat.html
http://www.electrodyne.com/about.html
http://www.prestolite.com/pei_alt.html
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Nov 1996 11:11:58 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Alternator go "ptfffbuzzz"
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
Rod "from THE north" wrote:
>I have a Delco single wire alternator of unknown origin that puts out around
>95 amp's just above idle, I can run all my lights and use the winch enough
>to get the coffee pot boiling and it's never failed to keep the battery up!
It's likely this alt. came off a Chevy pickup with a 350, I'm in the process
of putting a big. GM Alt. on my mini-truck and after a little inquiry at
the auto parts store I came to find out the cheapest route is a
94 amp. Dura-last alt. for an 84 2WD Chevy 1/2 ton pu, it's $69.99 at
AutoZone. They want $30 for a core but I bought a 70 amp Delco alt. at
the junk yard for $5 to turn in as a core and it turned out that it even
worked ! Much cheaper than the $300+ hi-amp alternators that Downey and NWOR
sell and brackets are easy to make ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:57:51 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: More Power, alternator
To: " - (052)toy4x4 (a) tlca.org"
While browsing the Off-Road digests via internet (my mail ate 'em) I
found the following...
http://www.off-road.com/products/showcase/mechman.htm
Im running a Wrangler 160A alternator.
I found that I had to modify the brackets a bit more than they describe
in their manuals, but once it went in, its worked great. Email me
for more info on this.
The Wrangler stuff is great, but mucho $$$.
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:57:07 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: More Power, alternator
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Another alternative is a small body GM alt like the 60-amp
replacement model that is pictured in either the NWOR or Downey catalog.
They claim it bolts right up ... if that is true, folks could stop by a
GOOD local auto parts store and browse their alt. catalogs and get a
high output small body GM-alt (i've seen 110 amp models for around $100)
that's meant for some newer GM car.... that way they could get a much
higher output alt for a good bit less, 'cause as Ed mentioned, the
Wrangler stuff, while top notch stuff, it's mucho dinero!
- jack
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:57:31 -0700
From: "Brian Smillie"
Subject: More Power, alternator
To:
Todd Wrote:
Has anyone upgraded their alternator for more power. I have an 87 with
a 22R and I'm thinking of trying to adapt a Cadillac or other alternator
to it. That stock 60 amp one will not cut it when I do the winch. Any
ideas anyone
Thanks Todd
87 Toyota 4X4, EZ Lockers F/R, 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's, 15X8 AR 26's,
Trailmaster 4"lift, Ramsey front bumper, Custom Nerfs, Custom rear bumper,
Custom body by Sierra Nevada.
Todd: You can find specialty alternators, I have a Phenix Gold For my
stereo. But somthing you may want to try that is cheaper by far is to
get your alternator rewound. I hear this Can really bring your amperage
up. The best thing about buying specialty is you will get all you need,
and if you rewind it you don't have to change a thing. I have an 86 toy
extra cab in the air with 33 's and a loud enough stereo for now.
Derek Luymes.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 14:06:08 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: More Power, alternator
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
downey sells a 110 amp (possibly a rebuilt) alt that should mount to
stock bolts. if not, an alt shop sould be able to custom wind your
old one so it can give out more juice.
try going to a high end car audio shop and they can probably set you
up with even ones that even go up high as 160-180 amps. of course you
can get them chromed also...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 09:59:43 -0700
From: "Gary T."
Subject: More powerfull alternator
To: 4runner list
Todd,
I measured current draw on the electrical system when every electrical
system, except an aftermarket stereo, was drawing power, and it came out
to be only 14Amp. With everything turned off, the current draw is around
12Amp. You have a lot of headroom for a winch, even if it draws 40Amp.
What are the actual specs on it?
- - to reply by e-mail substitute 'garyt' for 'gt' in my return address -
=============================================================
Gary Trubin SNX Product Support x7289
garyt
=============================================================
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 May 1997 13:34:39 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: More powerfull alternator
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
My winch at full draw (stall) is around 280 amps, average draw is around
150-200 amps. Needless to say the stock 60 amp alternator can't keep up
if you use the winch 2-3 times in a short time span, you'll kill the
battery pretty quick.
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 08:06:39 -0600
From: "Terry Sheppard"
Subject: Bad Alternator
To:
- -Yesterday in my 85 Celica (22 re) the
- -battery and brake light came on and stayed on, it appears that it is not
- -charging??? I did not do an on car test, but I did check the brushes and
- -they look real good. Anyway, do you think it is the regulator ($40.00,
- -cannot return if its not) OR could there be something else???
List (Jim),
I checked all the connections (battery, starter, altenator, block, ect.)
and cleaned them up, all is good. I did get to the local parts store and
had it tested, I'm only getting an output of a little over 9 volts. It
does not sound like the regulator (bad regulator ussually means voltage to
high?), the only other thing I can think of is the rectifier? Could it be
this or am I way off?
Well if anyone has any opinions, again I would appreciate hearing them.
Thanks
Terry Sheppard
shepardt@cadvision.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:57:51
From: Ed Ruf
Subject: Bad Alternator
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
From the annals of the toy-l FAQ:
SECTION 3.0: ELECTRICAL SYSTEMS
+3.1: Alternator repairs
If the charge light AND brake light on your dash come on and stay on,
the culprit is a problem in your charging system. When these lights
come on, it means your battery is not charging. These lights will
rarely signify a battery being at fault though. Most often, the
alternator belt is slipping or the alternator brushes are worn and the
alternator is not putting out enough voltage. When the output of the
alternator drops below 12 volts, a relay kicks in and your dash lights
come on.
List members have noted brush failure from between 60000 miles
and 120000 miles with an average life of about 100000 miles.
Your choices:
1.) Go to a shop and get hammered for about $200 for a rebuilt
alternator.
2.) Go to a discount parts house and get a rebuilt alternator with a
lifetime (HAHA!) warranty for about $75.
3.) Go to a discount parts house and get a new set of brushes for about
$4.50. Install and drive another 100000 miles.
The brushes available from Toyota run about $12 for a pair, but generic
ones are just as good. There are now brush "assemblies" available as
well for some Toyota alternators. These are for those who are not
handy with a soldering iron or are lazy. Check with your Toyota
dealer (or one of the dealers on the Toyota Pages) for availability.
Instead of soldering the new brushes in place, you simply snap in a
new brush assembly.
If you can operate a soldering iron, or are willing to try, do
number 3.
The only other things that go wrong are the coil fusing, bearing
failure, and the little resistor pack burning out. However, these
rarely fail. The brushes just simply wear down to nothing.
Disassembly of the alternator:
Remove the alternator from the car and remove back cover (the side
opposite the one with the pulley). This is often easier said than done
as nuts and bolts have a way of not loosening when you want them to.
You may wish to soak the pivot and tightening nuts with penetrating oil
if you are having difficulty removing them. When removing the cover, if
your model has phillips head screws, be warned that the screw heads
strip very easily. I STRONGLY advise you use an impact screwdriver to
remove the screws before even trying to with a regular screwdriver.
Impact screwdrivers are available at Sears for a little under $20 and
can be had elsewhere for slightly less.
Desolder the old brushes being careful not to let the springs get away
from you as the solder lets go. Note that Toyota uses a
high-temperature solder in most alternators, so you will have to allow
the old solder to heat up well. Solder in the new brushes with the
springs in place (which takes a little manual dexterity). Using a
toothpick or straightened paperclip, push the brushes down and slide
the pick/clip through the holes provided to hold the brushes down
(starting from outside of the casing). Put the alternator back
together.
Remove the pick/clip. You should hear two distinct "clicks" as
the brushes drop into place. If you need to use additional solder,
make sure you use a high-temp type and not the 60/40 solder found
at Radio Shack.
Install the alternator back into the car. Make sure you tension the
belt as directed in your owners manual. Tension and tension adjustment
methods vary from car to car, but a loose belt can cause your warning
lights to come back on and a tight belt can harm the alternator,
possibly causing bearing failure.
Save the impact screwdriver for your next job. These come in very
handy. If you already had one, you're ahead of the game.
contributing: Chris Myer (cmyer@su102a.ess.harris.com)
Aaron Lung (lung@san-jose.ate.slb.com)
Ed
---------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 06:12:44 -0600
From: Michael Stephens
Subject: Bad Alternator?
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
>Terry Sheppard wrote:
>>
>>I know this is a 4x4 list, but???? Yesterday in my 85 Celica (22re)
>>the battery and brake light came on and stayed on, it appears that
>>it is not charging???
>
>Terry,
>
>This sounds like the typical corroded battery cable caper. Try cleaning
>ALL battery cable connections: At the battery side and block ground.
>Take the cable ends apart at the positive terminal and clean there too.
>In addition, check the positive cable at the starter too. Make sure all
>connections are tight and repair/replace any bad wiring or connectors.
>
>I belive the regulator is internal on these, but the '85 M/Y did have a
>few variations that I still find today.
It is amazing what a Dremel Tool with the wire brush attachment will do
for you. No more scrubbing!!!
Michael Stephens
Micron CMS
>
>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:00:54 -0600
From: "Terry Sheppard"
Subject: Bad Altenator
To:
The altenator problem I was having turned out to be a combination of a
"burnt rectifier" and a bad regulator, I think the later caused the
rectifier to die.
By the way the rectifiers are supposed to be a hard to find item new, so
if you find a used one you can save a few bucks in the future??? To
replace the regulator, rectifier, and brushes takes about 20 minutes with
the altenator out if anyone is wondering (note: internal regulator).
Thanks to all
Terry Sheppard
----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 09:16:47 -0600
From: 4RUNNER4X4 <4RUNNER4X4@prodigy.net>
Subject: ALTERNATOR UPGRADES
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I don't know beyond getting an aftermarket unit from Downey or
something, I seem to
recall that switchting over to a GM unit is fairly simple.
Anyone done this???
Sheldon
83ToY4x4
sgard@flnet.com
I've upgraded my system useing Wrangler Power Products. 140 amp system
and it uses a small GM alternator It works great you can call them at
800-962-2616 Orders Line
503-235-4110 Teck line
Good luck
Chuck Schladenhauffen
4Runner4x4
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:05:59 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: ALTERNATOR UPGRADES
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Power Premier Welders also use a HO alternator, I'm sure you could get
just the alternator. You'll find them at
http://www.off-road.com/products/showcase/ppw.htm
Scott
- --
_____
/_/_|_\__ Scott Wilson TLCA #5261 CA4WDC #13393
| _ _ : 88 4Runner SR5 V6
*/_\---/_\' Santa Clara, CA
(_) (_) http://www.off-road.com/~swilson
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:37:09 -8 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Alt Upgrades
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
two makers come to mind: phoenix gold and wrangler products out of arizona.
wrangler has an 800 number with really good help and tech support. phoenix
gold is out of oregon and no 800 number. goto to a local stereo shop for
help with PG. a local stereo shop can also help wou with wrangler products
also.
btw, wrangler products also sells tons of goodies for electrical stuff from
16 gauge wire to 4/0 gauge that's as thick as your wrist. they also sell
the hi-amp connectors used for quick-connecting winches and jumper cables.
oh yeah, they have 170 amps alternators too.
phoenix gold specializes in stereo products only.
then, there's the on board welding company that sells hi-output alternator
too. forgot their name right now, but checking the small ads in the back
of 4wd magazines will tell you...
i saw one 4runner when i competed with stereo contest who had his 60 amp'er
OEM one rewound so it it was spitting out over 100 amps. this was back in
early 90's where alternator upgrades were almost nil.
chances are, most 'booming' vehicles never upgrade their alternators. they
either add a second batt (good when the engine isn't running, but bad
because it adds another load on the alternator and installing could be a
bitch), add a capacitor (good for the quick surges in power but bad when
installed incorrectly - it could explode - or if used with wrong power
ratings) or do nothing. kinda sad...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
Web Pages with info on alternators:
http://www.egrproducts.com/
http://www.altplus.com/
http://www.mousetrap.com/chuys/
http://www.hotrodsworldwide.com/pgs/index.htm
http://www.comevisit.com/polyactive/alternat.htm
http://www.wnmc.net/~hadam/alternat.html
http://www.electrodyne.com/about.html
http://www.prestolite.com/pei_alt.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:08:46 -0800 (PST)
From: rick99@jps.net (Rick Murray)
Subject: alternator update
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Interesting experience with my alternator(s) recently.
I had posted that I replaced it with a unit from NAPA ($75). I also
noticed that the in-dash voltmeter was nearly pegged to the '18'.
I didn't recall if it did that before someone on the list mentioned
that theirs did that too, so I didn't worry about it .
After a week, the new alternator quit !!. Disgusted with aftermarket, I took
my 4runner to a Toyota dealer without even looking at it, since I was
about to go wheeling the next day (Winter Fun Fest in Grass Valley)
I didn't have time to dick around with it. They replaced the failed NAPA
unit with one of theirs ($120 plus labor). I wanted professionals to
'do-it-right' so I wouldn't have to worry about it on the trail.
It still showed 18 volts on the meter, and I resolved to check that
out when I got back from my wheeling trip.
Driving to the trailhead, I smell 'rotten-egg' odors. I assume its my
fairly new , aftermarket Catalytic converter. While waiting for others
to show up at the trailhead, and listening to the radio for about 90 minutes,
my battery drains. I needed a jump start. No problem. A few miles down
the trail, a better-mechanic-than-I (and there are lots of them around)
smells the odor, and suggest I check my battery. Sure enuf, its bone dry.
We top it off with water. (Found out later my alternator is putting out over
22 volts, and boiling the sulfuric acid in the battery, creating the smell).
Its still driveable, but I worry about other electrical components being
fried for the rest of the weekend.
I take it back to the dealer, since the work is under warranty, to have them
check
things out, suspecting the IC regulator. They say its unlikely to be the
regulator, since 'they never go out'. They check it out, and sure enough
its a bad regulator. They want $160 plus labor, and it would have to be
ordered.
I said never mind, and got one an hour later at a wreckers (Toyautomart
in Rancho Cordova) for $20. Now its putting out a much-more-normal 15 volts.
I replaced the battery since it was 3-years old anyway.
Moral : check your battery fluid and voltage (while the engine is running)
more often.
##################################################################
Rick Murray 22R motor ; 3-inch lift
84 Toyota 4Runner SR5 33" BFG M/Ts ; 4.88 gears
Rancho Cordova, Ca. Rancho 9000's ; on-board air
http://www.jps.net/rick99/ Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD
##################################################################
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 15:18:16 -0500
From: Mojo
Subject: Alternator Update
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Did you take the Napa unit back for a refund???? Who's to say that it
wasn't defective and caused the regulator to take a dump? I have bought
Napa units and have had no problem. I go through an Alt about every six
months cus of all the water I go through. I resigned myself to getting
a discount auto part unit.(not the best quality item) They warranty for
lifetime no matter what, so far I'm on my fourth. heck if they wanna
guarantee it I'll take em up.:)
Sheldon
sgard@flnet.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 16:54:16 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: High power alternator
To:
> >I've got a question for the list. I've noticed in my 4Runner, that when
> >I use power accessories like windows or door locks my dash lights dim.
> >What can cause this and how can I correct it?
>
>
> I have the same problem, I asked the same type of question in issue #739
> I was wondering what alernator to get,I want one with more power. Any
> suggestions? Thanks!
88+ FWD EFI Buick w/ 3.0L V6 most are 120 amps some 95 ... look on the
case behind the edge of the pulley/fan ..... $40-50 in your avg boneyard.
It's a 5 wire alt. ... it's off a computer controlled engine with a bunch of
idiot lights so some of the wires aren't needed .... there are higher power
Nippondenso alt's but their prices are just too high ... along with whatever
that web site is that sells hi-po alt's ... they advertise through
off-road.com and have a rather detailed web site if you've got the bucks
and prefer a bolt-on affair.
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 1 Mar 1998 21:50 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: >Could Could anybody explain th
To: Toyota off-road list
>Could Could anybody explain the logic that disconnecting the
>battery while the engine is running will fry the system?
The alt puts out 3 phase AC that is rectified into pulcing DC with a
voltage of about 14VRMS. THe battery acts as a filter or capaitor
to smooth out the peaks and valleys. Without the battery (dead or
alive) the voltage regulator does not allways react correctly to the
output of the alt and will either over or under correct the alt
output through the field. If you put an Oscope on a truck running
without a battery you will see the voltage all over the place,
somtheing like 5-40 Volts. You may be able to do this for a short
time but it is not good for the electronic stuff on the truck.
The engine computer alone is over $1000 from the dealer.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 2 Mar 1998 22:48 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: . > Do you have any other way t
To: Toyota off-road list
,
> Do you have any other way to know a bad alternator while it still in
> The vehicle?
Yes, Hook up a voltmeter to your battey with the engine off, I should
read about 12V. Then start up the truck and the voltage should go up
to 13.8-14.3 volts and should stay there even when you rev the engine
and/or turn on the lights.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 10:41:48 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: 2R/RE Alternator
Eli asked about a GM alternator on a 22RE.
Back before the days of the stereo wars (which made import alternators
that put out 120A or more easily available) - the only real alternator option
was a Wrangler "small case" alternator. This option cost $$$. Mind you -
the kit was of relatively high quality - you did get what you paid for.
The alternater was a "small case" GM alternator - using an external regualator.
It fit in the stock location - BARELY.
It kinda touches the "third" rubber radiator hose that goes into the water pump.
It may over time rub a hole into it - but since the alternator and the hose as
well as the block will tend to vibrate as one unit - it wont rub in too bad.
After 1 year and 30K miles - it was in good shape (but I replaced it anyway
since I had the thing apart). A silicone hose might be a good
candidate here - or is you really want to get fancy - a new metal "curve" hose
to re-route the existing hose.
It was not a pure bolt in job - kinda a 3+ bannana job assuming you had access
to simple hand metal working tools (hacksaw - files - grinder bit for a drill).
The bottom alternator bolt get moved "out" by about 1inch (the case i smuch larger
than a stock OEM alternator) and the upper bracket gets cut down.
A new belt is used that is a REAL tight fit..
But now when using all my lights at once - they no longer "dim"... :)
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 19 Jun 1998 18:10:36 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: More Alternator stories..
Well - I got a "Wrangler" 140amp NipponDenso alternator in..
Its a Bolt in - well sorta.
The case will bolt in, but since the case is larger (in diameter) than
the OEM alternator) ya cant get the alt to tip close enuf to
the block to get the belt on easily.
I had a Ssightly larger belt (from the previos Wrangler/Delco alt,
but if you get the larger belt - ya cant get it tight enuf
and still use the stock "adjuster" bracket.
After much thought and struggling the following tips made it a "bolt in"..
Grind the alterntor bracket down (thats the cast iron piece
that bolts to the block). Its bolted to a motor mount, so use as
jack to support the motor as you have to loosen the motor mount to
get the bracket off.
Mount the bracket in a vise and mount the alternator - see how
it hits the bracket when you tip it towards the "block". Grind away.
(the proper Dremel bit helps mucho here)
Then the next hang up is the the bolt that mounts to the block.
I you can find a metric 10mmx1.25pitch 30mm buttton head
inhex bolt - let me know as I want some!
Hmmm - maybe I should ground the case at this point..
Anyway - the next thing you will find is that the top mounting ear
is pretty beefy and will come damm close to the hose/clamp.
I ground the ear down - alot
The final item is that the bolt sticks out past the upper ear and
also gets close to the upper hose. I used a dremel cutoff wheel to
shorten the bolt..
To get the belt on, take the pulley off of the water pump.
set the hose on the crank pulley and the alternator pulley.
place the belt on the water pump pulley and slide the pulley
on to the 4 wwater pump bolts.
***make sure that you can set the pulley fully on the water pump
and that the pulley isnt riding on the bolts.
I found it helpful to line up one bolt at "TDC" so that you are trying
to seat one hole and not two.
install the fan on top and get the bolt to seat as best as possible.
Working from underneath, pull down on the fan to get the
remainder of hte bolt seated.
** DO NOT try to use the bolts to get the pulley seated, as
they are small bolts and will break if you attempt to do this!
Enjoy the 70amp idle capacity...
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Sep 1998 21:26:45 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: High output alternator
Anyone who would be interested in a bolt in High output alternator
please let me know.
I am trying to get a deal with a shop here to put a install article on
my page for a discount.
There are a couple of them to chose from. One is a 195 amp and one is a
225 amp.
They are direct bolt on and have the Toyota connector on the Alt. so the
wiring just plugs in.
I do not know for sure but I think they run around $450 including all
new battery and starter cables to be able to handle the current.
All I know for sure is the 4 cyl needs no mods but the 6 cyl. needs
slight modifications to part of the air intake (I think before the air
box). Must be near the alternator.
Please e-mail me directly so I can print out all interested e-mail (I am
in digest mode on the list)
for better bargining.
Tony
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 10:14:12 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Biggie Alts
Ummm - while the biggie alts can be "plug in", I would upgrade the
charge cable between the alt and the battery... At minimum use
a lenght of the thick "car stereo" cable - although I wonder if the
insulation on those will take it near the header on a 22RE.
I went to 4 guage welding cable with a silicone insulation - no melt
problems now.
EWong
------------------------------
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