Batteries
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 12:49:25 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Funny for sure.
The WARN expedition to the Icelandic Glacier peak, in '92 used Optimas
and only Optimas. 70 - 80 pulls, no rest inbetween (only to switch from
empty battery to a full one). No problem.
There are of course few types of Optimas around, some are deep-cycle
batteries, and those aint ment for high drain devices.
Runar.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 07:05:15 -0600
From: "Steve C."
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Runar, I was under the impression that deep-cycle meant you could
repeatedly drain the battery and not hurt it. Am I missing something?
Maybe we could get some clarification on this.
BTW I have only heard good things bout Optima!!
- --
Steve Capuano 1996 Tacoma ext cab V6 4X4
capuano@hypercon.com 31x10.50x15 Wrangler RT/S
Houston, Texas Rear LockRight K&N filter
Edelbrock headers
NRA lifetime member Dynomax 2.5" cat back
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:20:32 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Firstly I'm no expert on batteries.
Yes you should be able to drain it repeatedly, without damage. I
thought they where originaly designed for the yaching community. There
you need a low-amp-draw batteries, that often get drained, and need
quick reloding.
What I was trying to say (but didn't get right :-), was that even tho
you can repeadedly drain them dry, they aint ment for high power
applications, like winches or starters. They suport low ampdraw for
long time, until drained and can still be reloaded.
Or that is how I understood what that Deep-cycle stuff meant.
The only bad thing I've heard about Optimas is the price, but that might
only be the Icelandic dealer....!
Runar.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:50:20 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: Optima Battery
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I got my optima 3 years ago. Cause at that time they are the strongest
batery that came in a small package. I use it single in a samurai with
winch. The alternator is only 60 Amps. I haven't got any problem yet.
That was three years ago, right now I would go with the yellow top Optimas,
this is a deep cycle batery and cost you $189, the red top optimas is
starting battery (cost about $129 retail).
The amperage rating for optimas are 800 CCA, 2 hours reverse capacity.
Right now if I have to buy batery I would go to Champion 4X4, it is rated a
1025 CCA, and 2.5 hour reverse capacity and cost only $ 52 in Sam's Club.
I install my optima to my 87 Turbo truck and then buy the champion 4X4. I
felt the champion is stronger. Can't say about winch application since I
don't have winch in my truck.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:03:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
How rugged is this battery? I heard that the higher amp batteries are more
fragile and are more likely to fail because of this if shocked or jarred
too much. Much better to get two 750CCA batteries and a battery isolater.
The reason they are more fragile is due to the thinner lead used to get
more surface area to hold more charge. I haven't heard of a Champion 4x4,
maybe it is made to be more rugged. Just my 2 cents worth.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-3785
Fax : (508) 856-1840
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 05:59:20 -0800
From: Jeff Deifik
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
A friend of mine makes electric cars.
He uses 28 optima batteries in series.
His car puts out between 150 and 200 hp.
He often drains 400-500 amps from the batteries while accelerating.
The OEM batteries used to last 3000 miles, the newer formulation,
deep discharge ones last 30,000 miles.
The stores you spoke to are full of sh*t.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 06:06:25 -0800
From: Jeff Deifik
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
This is all very amusing, and slightly off base.
A friend of mine makes and sells high performance electric cars.
The first generation put out 100 kw (about 134 hp). The newer ones
put out 150 kw (about 200 hp). He started using Optima batteries because
they were the best inexpensive (read cheaper than equal capacity ni-cad)
batteries. They tended to weaken to about 50% capacity (25 amp hours,
rather than 50 amp hours) in about 3000 miles. I sold perhaps 50 of these
50% batteries. They still put out 800 cca. Together with Optima, they
developed the deep-discharge batteries (the yellow top ones). They are
just as good as the normal batteries, and they have a half-life around
30,000 miles.
Bear in mind, while accelerating, he sucks out over 500 amps, and while
regenerativly braking he charged them around 300 amps.
The deep discharge batteries are just as good for high drain devices.
I doubt any winch is a tougher load than a 3000 lb car accelerating
(0-60 @6 seconds).
The 800S has just the top terminals. The 800U has top and side terminals.
Jeff turbo Deifik turbo@weasel.com www.weasel.com
87 Shelby CSX #3
97 Tacoma v6 4wd
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 14:25:30 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Winches go up to 400 amps.
Runar.
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jan 1998 08:32:59 -0600
From: "Youwer, Mark (AZ15)"
Subject: Optima Battery
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org" (IPM Return requested)
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 08:52:52 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toyota 4x4 List
Brandon Miller wrote:
>Funny, I was told just the opposite. I have left my cb on, lights, etc. many
>times and my optima is running strong. Anybody had problems with their Optima?
I have killed one or two, but had them replaced under warantee. The standard
Optima is NOT a deep cycle battery and they do not like to be run way down.
I you do run it very low, it needs to be slow charged back on a 2 amp charger
setting. Best thing about Optimas is that there is no acid leaking or out-gassing
under your hood.
I know one guy that has a Black Panther gel cell in his Jeep and another
with one in his Harley. These batteries are smaller than normal and have
even higher current capacities....and cost more too. Too soon to determine
how well they last.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
Date: 12 Jan 98 08:38:13 PST
From: Norman.Goetz@directory.reed.edu (Norman Goetz)
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
- --- You wrote:
How rugged is this battery? I heard that the higher amp batteries are more
fragile and are more likely to fail because of this if shocked or jarred
too much. Much better to get two 750CCA batteries and a battery isolater.
The reason they are more fragile is due to the thinner lead used to get
more surface area to hold more charge.
- --- end of quote ---
The Optimas are the most rugged battery I've heard of, because the plates are
wrapped in a spiral with separators tightly between them. There is no space
between the plates, so no way they can break. What you say is true of high CCA
wet-cell batteries.
The red top is 800 CCA and better for starting, the yellow top is 750 CCA and
better for lower current uses, but they have the same reserve capacity and
recharge rate, and are more the same than different. You can use the yellow
top for starting if you don't need more than 750 CCA. Although they may need
careful recharging if run flat, the point is that other batteries would either
be junk or permanently damaged. They are also more resistant to freezing if
left in the cold when discharged, since there is no liquid to freeze. The
electrolyte in a wet cell battery is freeze-proof diluted sulfuric acid when
the battery is charged, but just ordinary water when discharged.
Norman
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 11:50:30 -0800
From: "Karl Bellve, PhD"
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Yes, I was refering to the Champion 4x4 battery that the previous poster
said was a cheaper but a decent alternative to the Optima. I was pointing
out that most batteries, unlike the Optima, were fragile if they had large
CCAs. But, I didn't know anything about the champion 4x4 battery.
- --
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
www : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
phone: 508-856-3785
fax : 508-856-1840
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 17:03:48 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
If I recall right the Optimas (red top) had the biggest advange of
retaining almost full crank rate at sub-zero temps (f.e. @-20 deg
celcius) where the performance of wet-cell bateries are seriusly
reduced. They are also only half the weight.
Personly I'm very happy with my dual Delta setup. Enough charge there
to drive for hours with full lights, and failed alternator.....;-))
And no stubit isolator.
Actually I'm not sure weither I have a pure 12 volt system or a 24/12
volt system....!
Runar, the Diesel dick.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:34:57 -0800
From: Kenneth Fong
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have heard what Brandon has. That is why I want to upgrade.Everyone
I've talked to so far says it's worth the money.
I should look into further.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 13:19:22 -8 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
i've had an optima now for over 4 years. not the same one, but optima has
honored the 2 year replacement warranty. maybe it's just my vehicle but i've
gotten so much corrosion on the neg terminal that at worst, i can't even
start the car.
but i've talked to a bunch of other optima owners and never had that
problem...
i've talked to the president of the company two years ago. he told me that
the reason their batteries fail during high amp draw is that people just
don't charge it right after use. a good weekend at surprise canyon can kill
just about any battery, but he went on to say that their batteries are good
for such purposes. not to worry about it... just take care of it.
so, if had to buy another battery? i'd shell out for another optima...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:42:10 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: Optima Battery
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I have this battery just for 4 month right now. So I cannot say about
durability. But for the price it was well worth it. I start the truck in
gear many times after a stall and it never have problem yet. They felt to
have more power than my 3 year old optima (never have been completely drain
which will cause power degradation)
I don't recall exactly but a few month back 4 wheel & off-road or 4 wheeler
have an article about choosing the right battery and they mention the
champion 4X4 and the optima.
The other reason I bought this battery are because if you drain the optima
the performance would degrade considerably. Except the yellow top which is
deep cycle but cost a fortune. They might have a 6 year warranty but if you
drain them its not covered by the warranty.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:57:12 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: Optima Battery
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I agree they are the safest and the most rugged battery around.
I Have seen a cracked Optima still crank an engine easily.
This happen in a group N Gallant VR4 rally car. It hit a tree and the
battery body cracked. But it still start after we push the car from the
ditch..
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:59:16 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: Optima Battery
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I have this battery for 3 years in my Samurai they never have corrosion
problem. Not even a slight of it.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:39:55 -0300
From: Biodiversity Park
Subject: Optima R
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have two type R with 1 lug at the top. I have not used them for 6
mts.and they start ok.I have attached two 250,000 candle spot lights on one
battery for 4 hours,while navegating a rockey creek at night.I have an
Optima in my Hi-Lux twin cap and used the 12,000 lb Warn ,with no problems.
For off road I advise the R ,as the side lug can be dangerous if not in use
or covered.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 21:05:40 -0600 (CST)
From: pelland@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Batteries
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In response to several posts yesterday,
I was just in the market for a new battery, my winch/lights killed mine.
( it still started the truck but winching was out of the question)
I wanted the optima yellow top for winching, I was told by several
distributors that optima does not recomend the yellow top as a starting
battery. They said using the yellow top as a starting battery would kill it.
I ended up with a preditor battery, dry cell but not spiral, small battery,
brass terminals(dual mount) and same dollars as the yellow top $189 over the
counter. I was told that this manafucturer says it is ok to both deep cycle
and start with the same battery. I have only had it a week but plan to due
some test winching this weekend to test it out.
You could easly fit two of these preditor batterys in the battery area of a
Toyota. Can you say $$$$$. I only bought one.
Last weekend I saw a guy who had moved his battery to the front of the bed
of his toy P/U. He used a remote mounting kit that he got at a speed
shop(wire, terminals,plactic enclosure box.). His reason was rust but it
would also make sense to mount a second battery there.
Starting battery under the hood and deep cycle battery in the back.
Ps my experience is that optima does not answer thier 800 number it was busy
all day. off the hook?
Mike Pelland 1994 extra cab pick-up
Lots of extras
http://www2.netcom.com/~pelland/
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:43:17 -0500
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Batteries
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In my 81 toy,i had a huge catterpillar starting battery in the box.I
made my own cradle and cover for it and wired it directly to the stock
system.I used the stock battery tray for a place to put my tools and
winch solenoids.These batteries have a huge reserve capacity and a
1100cca rating.Once i drowned the engine out in a swamp,so i had to
winch myself out with no alternator. The pull used all the cable on the
winch(110')and after i got everything dried up it spun the engine over
just like it was a freshly charged battery.When it was really cold up
here(40 C.)my truck was the only thing around that would start.
These batteries can be had for around $220(canadian).If you're
thinking about a bed mounted battery this might be a cheap alternative
to an expensive Optima.
Darren
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:42:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Tom Rompies
Subject: optima or panter
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
For what it is worth I installed a panther batterry in my 4runner
for several reasons; first of I like the fact of acid incase of a crash.
Second I am planning on running duals this spring and you know how cramped
the runners engine bay is but two bp 800's or one bp800 and one bp 1000 fit
in the origenal bat. tray. Third I really like the brass post they use I
have yet to find corrosion or have a loose connection. And last but not
least the steel cases around the body just makes them tougher in case of a
mishap. They do cost more than a normal unit but compared to the optima the
price is actualy cheaper. I have had mine for about 1yr. and will be buying
another soon. As for the optima some of my friends run them and they
perform just as good, if you do get one get the yellow top it is better also
the dual post allow you to mount accesories easier. That is my opinion hope
it helps
****************************
91 4runner TLCA# 6136
4" Pro Comp 5" Rear Costum
33'sBFG-MT 5.29's ARB Rear
Locker ARB Frt.Bumper w/Warn
Nerf Bars Flares Quick Disc.
Sway Bars Costum Tow Set Up
9000's w/Dual Control Borla
Cat Back K&N Filter Charger
550 Watts of sound.
Tom Rompies
Member Rising Sun
Denver CO
****************************
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:40:07 -0600
From: Chuck & Birgit Schladenhauffen <4RUNNER4X4@prodigy.net>
Subject: OPTIMA RULES
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 1998 23:34:12 -0800
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Optima Battery
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>Funny, I was told just the opposite. I have left my cb on, lights, etc.
>many times and my optima is running strong. Anybody had problems with
>their Optima?
>Brandon
I've had a optima for three years and no problems at all. winching With
a 8000 lbs Warn. my boys leaving my light on till it was stone dead. I
jump it off and put a slow charge on and it Good as new. I WILL NEVER
OWN ANY OTHER TYPE OF BATTERY AGIAN... :) OPTIMA RULES
- --
Chuck & Birgit Schladenhauffen
4RUNNER4X4 85 & 88 4Runners
http://members.tripod.com/~schladenhauffen/index.html
My 4Runner Homepage
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 00:42:07 -0500
From: William Miranda
Subject: #651 ((Dual Batteries))
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Try the Panther Batteries from Chriswell Auto.
They're all steel,.. Half the size of a regular battery (motorcycle size)
put out 1000+ CCA,.. can be deep cycled hundreds of times (guaranteed)
and are dry cell deep-cycle sealed valve regulated (svr) starved
electrolyte batteries. They can't leak.
Thay are expensive though. I think around $170.00 apiece.
1-800-44-CRANK
Black Panther
Crischell Automotive Products, LLC
PO Box 260965
Highlands Ranch, CO 80126
Fax 303.791.2807
http://www.blackpanther.com/
- ------------------------------------------
Bill Miranda 1990 4Runner SR5/V6
31x10.5s K&N FilterCharger
Dynomax Cat-Back Garmin GPS
- ------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:14:53 -0800
From: "Nate & Nicole Mutch"
Subject: BATTERIES
To: "Toyota mailing list"
Just thought I might add some light to the battery chat. Batteries fall
into 3 main catagories...with some variations.
Standard automotive, rv marine and deep cycle.
Standard automotive need a large available amperage for a short duration,
usually under a minute until the vehicle is started, after which the
battery is immediately recharged.It is constructed with thinner lead
plates. Typically doesn't discharge more than 10%. Full deep cycling
of this battery, 70% or more, will kill this battery if done 8-10
times.Usually rated in cold cranking amps which is the number of amperes a
battery at -18C(0 F.) can deliver over 30 seconds without falling below a
voltage of 1.2v per cell (7.2v combined)
Deep cycle batteries are designed to deliver a smaller amperage over a
longer period of time, with longer periods between recharging.It
incorporates thicker lead plates and denser active material and typically
will discharge to 70% or more.It is capable of doing this 400-600
times.Usually rated in reserve capacity, which is the number of minutes a
new fully charged battery can deliver 25 amps @ 27 C., (81 F.), while
maintaining a voltage of 1.7v per cell.
R.V. Marine fall somewhere in the middle, having to be capable of starting
an engine, and power accessories found on larger boats, as well as being
constructed more ruggedly for the vibrations of marine life.
These are my choice for off-roading with accessories, such as winches &
lights, and large stereos, as they have the best of both worlds.
my 2 amps worth, Nate
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:21:48 -0800
From: "Nate & Nicole Mutch"
Subject: dual 6 volts
To: "Toyota mailing list"
Why a twin 6 volt setup for deep cycling?
First, remember the purpose of deep cycling...to provide a smaller
amount of current over a longer period of time. the key to doing this is
thicker lead plates(less surface area, with a denser material).each cell
in a battery is by nature approx 2 v.therefore in a 12 v battery you
have 6 cells.in a 6 volt battery you have 3 cells.in a 6 v. battery
(same physical size as 12 v.),the cells will be larger and therefore the
lead plates can be much thicker and more dense, required for deep
cycling. in 12 v batteries you have to maintain 6 cells, and therefore
are limited to the thickness you can acheive in the lead plates.
i realize Runar you're not by any golf courses, but if you were, and
could look at the electric carts, you would see that they all run with
6v. batteries, for longevity(a deep cycle)
------------------------------
Subject: OPTIMA Battery Question
Date: 26 May 1998 03:00:51 +0300
From: heku@snafu.muncca.fi (Henri Helanto)
Newsgroups: rec.autos.tech, rec.autos.4x4
Steve Gerland writes:
>A question about Optima Spiralwound batteries.
<...>
>What I am curious about, is if anybody has any experience
>running them completely dead. How do they survive that kind
>of abuse? Reason I ask, is because I did it. Accidentally
>left the lights on while at work. Eight hours later the
>battery is completely discharged. I know they are not
>supposed to be normally used for deep discharge applications,
>but will one accidental occurrance damage the battery?
I assume that you're talking about Optima Red Top battery and not
the Yellow Top and Blue Top ones (which are designed to withstand
frequent deep discharges). I bought a Red Top for my GT-R in '94
and after using it for six weeks the car was taken apart for
steering conversion which took a total of 18 months. During this
time the battery was left sitting in the garage. After recharging
it worked just fine, I was really amazed that it did. The following
winter ('96-'97) the car wasn't driven at all for almost five
months and the battery discharged again. This time it woke up but
was a bit weak - starting the car was slightly more troublesome
but basically it still worked. Last winter the car was driven only
occasionally and it was left in the garage for 3-6 week periods at
a time; now the battery is almost dead, it will start the car but
sometimes only after ~20-30 seconds of cranking and I'm going to
buy a new one, a Yellow Top this time.
I have Optima batteries in all my vehicles - Red Tops in daily
drivers, Yellow Tops in cars that are driven only occasionally and
Blue Tops in boats. That first Red Top in my GT-R convinced me of
their quality, now all that I need is smaller Optima batteries for
motorbikes, Jet Skis and snowmobiles - those 'ordinary' batteries
are frustrating :)
>I know that one deep discharge can ruin an ordinary wet
>type battery, but what can I expect from this Optima battery?
>Anybody out there ever done this and had one survive, or did
>I just accidentally destroy a really expensive dry battery?
Don't worry, it'll be fine. It's really nice to find out that some
products are indeed worthy of their reputation, Optima batteries
are one of them.
-Henri
--
# Henri Helanto ; heku@muncca.fi ; hhelanto@cc.hut.fi #
# Nissan Skyline GT-R ; '71 Corvette LS-6 ; GMC Typhoon ; etc...#
CAUTION: Before engaging mouth make sure that the brain is in gear.
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