Starter Problems

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 10:18:27 -0500
From: Bryan Jeffrey Williams 
Subject: I need a consult
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

My name is Bryan and I am a medical student in Columbia Missouri.  I
have an 86 four runner with 99,000 miles on it that I love to death. 
Chief Complaint
This morning I went out to go to the hardware store and my truck let me
down.  The ignition buzzer went off when I inserted the key, but as soon
as I turn the switch to on, everything went off, all electricity.  It's
not a fusible link, because on turning the key back to off, the dome
light comes back on.  At first I could get the gauges to turn on in the
on position, but as soon as I tried to crank the engine, all would shut
off.  Now nothing happens even in the on position.
Past Medical history
I've had a problem ever since I've owned it (Feb of this year) with it
not turning at all when I flip the ignition switch to crank.  If I did
this repeatedly, it would eventually crank the engine fine.  This only
happened sporadically with no patterns except that it most frequently
happened if the car had not been driven for a while.  
My diagnosis
I've got a screwed up ignition switch.
Treatment
This is where I need help.  Which component needs to be replaced, the
lock cylinder or the other component.  According to the parts guy, those
are the two parts to the ignition switch.  It doesn't look too hard to
replace either, but I am not an electrician (neurologist in my field).
Request for consultation
I need to know if my diagnosis is correct, and if my treatment plan is
close to correct.
Thanks
Bryan Williams

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 07:58:01 -0800
From: "CONRAD" 
Subject: I need a consult
To: 

> From: Bryan Jeffrey Williams 
> Subject: I need a consult
> Date: Tuesday, May 06, 1997 7:18 AM
> This morning I went out to go to the hardware store and my truck let me
> down.  The ignition buzzer went off when I inserted the key, but as soon
> as I turn the switch to on, everything went off, all electricity.  It's
> not a fusible link, because on turning the key back to off, the dome
> light comes back on.  At first I could get the gauges to turn on in the
> on position, but as soon as I tried to crank the engine, all would shut
> off.  Now nothing happens even in the on position.
> Bryan Williams
It could be the switch, but...  The first thing I would check would be
cable connections from the battery to ground, and from battery to starter. 
You should also have the battery and charging system checked.  I think
you'll find the cure somewhere in there rather than the ignition switch.
jc

Jack Conrad,  BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851
conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over  leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 09:43:45 +0100
From: Earle Rother 
Subject: I need a consult/starting woes
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Bryan,
lets start from the top
1. check your battery, how old is it? they don't last forever.

2. check the connections at the battery it is clean and tight. poor
connections add resistance and resistance is bad (in this case)

3. do you hear a click - this is the starter trying to engage. no click no
juice um thats current/amps or in doctor terms blood pressure??

4.  check the wire at the starter is it tight? disconnect the ground on
your battery BEFORE you take the wrench to the starter terminal or your
battery and or cable WILL be bad!. I have had a poor connection at the
starter - water,mud! and or salt (for our east coast friends) can cause the
connection to be bad (it;s that high resistance thing again)

5. i'm no neurologist but I would start at the battery and work my way up
the nerve ooops battery cable to the brain.. hem starter.  check the
voltage (pulse) at the battery while cranking the starter (this may take a
friend) measure at the battery terminals not on any cables coming from the
battery (it's that resistance thing again). The voltage needs to be above
12volts usually its someware between 13 volts and 14.4 volts. if it drops
under 12V it's time for a new battery.

6. you might have to defibulate (sp..i'm no doctor..or speller) using some
jumper cables and another patitent.. hemm car) be sure not to mix blood
types postitve to positive and negitive to negitive and place the positive
on the dead (poor use of words) one first. place the negitive on your
engine block or other ground away for your battery. Be carefull a bad
battery can be flatulant and the gas can explode.

7. you can take your battery to the lab (local parts store) and have them
test it.

8. Total consultation fees are $0.00 for services rendered - I would like
to know the problem was once you find it tho.. this was all in good fun!

Earle

-------

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 17:28:28 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: I need a consult
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Bryan Williams  wrote:

        "My diagnosis...I've got a screwed up ignition switch."

Don't overlook your ignition key. No kidding. Take the code off the
original, give your local Toyota parts counter the number, and have a fresh
key made. If nothing else, that eliminates one more possibility.

 - Nick

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 23:31:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: I need a consult
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

In a message dated 97-05-06 11:32:36 EDT, you write:

> My name is Bryan and I am a medical student in Columbia Missouri.  I
>  have an 86 four runner with 99,000 miles on it that I love to death. 
>  Chief Complaint
>  This morning I went out to go to the hardware store and my truck let me
>  down.  The ignition buzzer went off when I inserted the key, but as soon
>  as I turn the switch to on, everything went off, all electricity.  It's
>  not a fusible link, because on turning the key back to off, the dome
>  light comes back on.  At first I could get the gauges to turn on in the

I thing you may want to check your wiring before replacing the ignition
switch.  Check the chassis ground, the battery cables, and the hot wire to
the starter.  My dad had a problem almost exactly like what you are saying.
 It just so happened that we were looking at it at night, an dsaw some sparks
at the starter.  loose connection there was jumping to the block.  Try these
things and see.

David
DRM033@aol.com

------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 07 May 1997 12:30:26 -0500
From: Bryan Jeffrey Williams 
Subject: Thank you for the consultation
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

And the case concludes...
Initial workup
Upon exploratory examination of the steering column and ignition switch,
I found no problems.  (I just like taking things apart, and putting them
back together).  Upon retrying the key with a fellow med student looking
at the engine (not planned, but by chance) she noticed sparks from the
positive terminal.  I immediately reformulated my hypothesis.
Further past history
The past owner had replaced the battery recently and must have cracked
injured the fusible link which I replaced over a month ago.  Assuming
the connection was stable, I ignored this possibility in my initial
evaluation.  Bad mistake, fortunately the workup did not cost anything,
and my malpractice insurance is good.  
Treatment
Replaced the positive terminal clamp and cleaned up the mess.
Patient status
Stable and appreciative
Thanks for all of the input, I actually managed to fix it before
receiving these messages, but most suggestions were very accurate.

Bryan Williams
(I've got more minor electrical woes to discuss later)

------------------------------