Carb to EFI Upgrade
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 08:30:28 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Computer Chip
To: " - (052)Toy4x4 (a) tlca.org"
Steve Capuano suggested the used of a GM type
computer for an EFI replacement for the 22RE.
The following is based on knowledge gleaned from sources of various and
potentially dubious reliability. It is accurate to my knowledge but
is just as likely to be *wrong*.
The major reaseon that GM tuners abound is:
1 - there are alot of GM vehicles out there
2 - GM used a "universal" box and a single chip to store
the vehicle specific information on.
However - there are several other problem areas to consider in the
EFI CPU swap from Yota 22RE to GM driving the 22RE.
1 - The Yota system is based on a Bosch design
2 - The 22RE uses "port" injection - many GM's use throttle body
(except of course for the TPIs)
3 - The sensors are probabably *VERY* different
Therefore - at a minimum - I'd expect that one whould have to
swap out *all* the Yota sensors for GM parts
water temp
knock sensor
intake air temp
O2 sensor
MAP instead of MAF
crank sensor (use stock distrib?)
The Yota CSI (cold start enrichment) seems to work sort of
independent of the EFI computer. Last I recall, there was an
on/off temp switch next to the regualr temp switch that
when triggered "on" added the CSI injector into the bank fire.
The Yota uses a group fire (all 4 injectors at once) - I am
not sure if the GM does that or can handle sequential
injectors (ties firing to end just before the valve
opens)
I do not know the compatibility bewteen the Yota injectors
and the GM injectos (hi z or lo z).
Note that most GMs are V8 - although it is my understanding that
the same GM computer drives their 4cyls as well.
In general - ths is a relatively complciated project - that
in the end results in a EFI that has
a - easily avail spare parts
b - complicated tuning - since the V8 tuning parts
are probably NOT compatiable with a 4 cycl engine
configuration.
IMHO - if this type of project IS to be undertaken, it
might be better to get an EFI CPU that IS accessible
from a laptop - in other words - on that has tuning
software avail for it rather than having another tuner
play hit or miss with your engine.
IMHO - F*rd offers a slightly better package -
you can get a compltete EFI setup (all sensors)
designed for the 5.0L V8's AND get the complete
tuning package (software to remap *everything*)
from the F*rd SVO catalog. It aint cheap tho -
about 2K-3K last I recall.
This puts it in the same price range of the *lesser*
EFI systems (Accell DFI, Electromotive).
The system I'm gonna get if a win the lotterey - MoTec.
This one is apprently good enough to meet EPA certification
on certian limited production vehicles.
FYI - I am a big fan of Mass Air rather than speed density,
but the MoTec uses speed density. I have NOT completed my
research into using the F*rd system for the 22RE.
One major advantage of the F*rd system is that its ready for
a 5.0L swap.....
EWong
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Date: Mon, 05 May 1997 11:14:32 -0500
From: Todd Hornsby
Subject: Computer Chip
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
http://www.earthcom.net/~crawford
At 08:30 AM 5/5/97 -0400, you wrote:
>2 - The 22RE uses "port" injection - many GM's use throttle body
> (except of course for the TPIs)
But that's THE injection system to use on SB Chevies ;)
>IMHO - if this type of project IS to be undertaken, it
>might be better to get an EFI CPU that IS accessible
>from a laptop - in other words - on that has tuning
>software avail for it rather than having another tuner
>play hit or miss with your engine.
There is a company that provides a programmable EFI CPU that IS
programmable but their 'budget' version is not accessable via laptop (still
programmable). Relatively speaking I believe it is pretty cheap. They have
a web site but I'll be darned if I can find it. I'm pretty sure my friend's
web site at http://www.earthcom.net/~crawford has a link to it. They market
their products towards a wide variety of imports and domestic systems. He
has custom built an awfully slick homegrown EFI on one of his projection
cars that netted a solid 25% HP increase while maintaining driveability,
torque and gas mileage using a mishmash of hardware. But even going the
budget route is not cheap and requires a lot of time and experimentation.
THere is an email list out there that is centered around DIY fuel
injection. I suppose any topic is fair game there from 1950s Rochester
mechanical FI to modern day customized electronic stuff. Try finding one of
those sites that lists all the email lists and see if you can find this DIY
EFI mail list. Or email the fellow that owns the web site above. I'm pretty
sure he subscribes and seems impressed by the knowledgeable folks on that
list.
Saludos,
Todd
________________________________________________________________________
- -Todd Hornsby (San Antonio, TX) http://www.texas.net/~toddh
- -toddh@texas.net alt: thornsby@alumni.cs.colorado.edu
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Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 15:33:55 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: DIY-EFI
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Todd wrote:
>THere is an email list out there that is centered around DIY fuel
>injection. I suppose any topic is fair game there from 1950s Rochester
>mechanical FI to modern day customized electronic stuff. Try finding one of
>those sites that lists all the email lists and see if you can find this DIY
>EFI mail list. Or email the fellow that owns the web site above. I'm pretty
>sure he subscribes and seems impressed by the knowledgeable folks on that
>list.
The information to join this list is below, it is an excellent list, they
gave me the information and location of other information on how
to put fuel injection (cheaply) on my 22R which I haven't gotten
around to doing yet.
================================================================
Do - It - Yourself Electronic Fuel Injection
================================================================
To subscribe: Send to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu
subscribe [list name] [your email address *only* if
different than your "From" address]
To unsubscribe: Send to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu
unsubscribe [list name] [your *registered* email address if
different than your "From" address]
For help: Send "help" to Majordomo@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu.
To post: Send to "DIY_EFI@coulomb.eng.ohio-state.edu"
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 10:45:17 -0500
From: Todd Hornsby
Subject: web visitors
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I dropped a line to my good friend Bruce who has the web page with the
links/info on DIY EFI companies. I forgot he has done a fair bit of
wrenching on Toy 4bangers. He provided a site and a mailing list for those
interested in Toyota performance.
Personally I'll keep my 22RE stock as I like the the torque etc just the
way it is. Besides I subscribe to too many darn lists and don't need any
more car projects! If anybody joins, pass on any worthwhile tidbits to the
rest of us.
Saludos,
Todd
At 09:58 AM 5/6/97 +0000, Bruce wrote:
>
>> Almost forgot. The subject of DIY EFI came up on the Toy4x4 list and while
>> I couldn't remember the URL for the company that provided your EFI computer
>> setup I did post your homepage since it has a writeup and a link to their
>> page. Hope you don't mind some 22RE types snooping around a bit.
>
>No problem.
>
>Do any of you guys hang out on the toyota mods list hosted by
>Cyberauto? If I recall correctly, Chris Myers (owner) just finished
>building a killer 22R. www.cyberauto.com is the webpage and I think
>there's info on it regarding the list. The traffic is light `25
>messages a day or so.
>
>Later,
>Bruce Crawford crawford@planet.earthcom.net
>#43 Spec RX7 http://www.earthcom.net/~crawford
________________________________________________________________________
- -Todd Hornsby (San Antonio, TX) http://www.texas.net/~toddh
- -toddh@texas.net alt: thornsby@alumni.cs.colorado.edu
------------------------------
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 97 09:40:47 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Swapping to EFI
To: Sheldon
>I suppose I'll ask again. I have afriend who threw a rod in is 90 with a
>22RE. We started putting a small block in it last night and he wants to
>sell me all his EFI stuff, manifold, sensors, everything... Would it swap
>over to my 83 block and would switching to EFI make a whole lot of
>diffrenece over what I have already done so far to my motor.
>
>So far I have added headers, weber, downey cam, rebuilt shortblock..
Get the intake & associated plumbing, computer, wiring harness for engine
compartment and inside (He won't part with these probably), ECU, fuel
pump, fuel lines (high pressure fittings), Dash (won't fit, but - need
somewhere to hook up the check engine light to also), cam is also
different. Do you have an o2 port on your header?
Easy - no, doable - yes,
improvments in performance - probably not (if your carb is set up
right in the first place),
improvement in driveablility - probably not (see above)
Improvements in gas mileage & efficency - probably so,
improvements in *extreme* angle running - definately.
- - Brian
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Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:46:27 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Swapping to EFI
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Sheldon wrote:
"I have a friend who threw a rod in his 90 with
a 22RE.... he wants to sell me all his EFI
stuff, manifold, sensors, everything...Would it
swap over to my 83 block and would switching to
EFI make a whole lot of diffrenece over what I
have already done so far to my motor(?)"
It would swap over to your block, but there's more to it than that.
It could be done, but I doubt your friend will sell you all the parts
you'll need. The key here is the "E" in EFI. It stands for "electronic,"
and that's what you'll be getting into if you do this swap. You would need
to get his entire wiring harness, sensors, etc., and start from a bare
truck, a pile of parts, and a stack of manuals, and try to make it work and
smog.
IMHO, it's not worth the hassle. Anybody else's opinion?
Good luck,
- Nick
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-----------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 12:10:42 -0600
From: "ARTHUR RUMPF"
Subject: Fw: 86 EFI
To:
> From: DAVE SCHOENBERG
> To: ANRUMPF@worldnet.att.net
> Subject: Re: 86 EFI
> Date: Sunday, August 10, 1997 8:43 PM
>
>
> On Sun, 10 Aug 1997 14:26:39 -0600 "ARTHUR RUMPF"
> writes:
> >Hi Dave,
> >Okay, you posted the info so I gotta ask, what did it take to put the 86
> FI motor in your 81? I currently have an 82 SR5 with an 81 Celica engine,
> aftermarket turbo kit (uses a Chrysler turbo unit) and a Holley V8
> Projection unit I adapted, but I just can't get to run right. I've
> already installed a late model tranny/xfer after my original five speed
> failed twice in one year. A
> >few months ago I picked up an 86 FI motor and tranny and xfer with the
> computer and engine harness but nothing else. The truck had rolled and
> taken a hit in the air cleaner area so I wasn't able to salvage it (air
> meter) or any of the cab wiring. Before I head out to the junk yards to
> find the missing parts, I was wondering if you could give me a little
> info on what it
> >will take to finish the job? I hope to get the turbo to work with the
> new motor and then put in a dual xfer kit from Marlin.
> >
> >Art, 82 SR5, Turbo kit, Air locker, 4.56s
> >
> >Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.
> >------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> Hey, Art,
>
> The absolute first thing you need are wiring diagrams for both the truck
> and the engine you're trying to install into it.
>
> Obviously, the wiring is the critical part. The engine is just like the
> stock 22R, so motor mounts, etc., bolt right up. The
> radiator/fan/accessories all mount to the 22RE the same way. If you have
> the later trans/xfer in place, then you've already cut and rewelded the
> rear trans mount/cross member.
>
> You say you have the computer and engine harness. You also need the
> wiring harnesses that come from the engine into the cab and computer,
> then through the cab and over to the air mass sensor. Sounds like you
> need to find another truck with the rest of the wiring and the air
> cleaner/ air mass sensor assembly.
>
> On my truck, instead of running all the wiring back into the cab, I just
> ran it along the inside of the firewall and just ran into the cab the
> wires that really had to be in there. Mostly, this means the plugs into
> the computer, but I also put the fuel pump and EFI relays under the
> dash-- just hanging from their wires and I've had no trouble with them.
> This meant that I had to drastically shorten and splice all the new wires
> under the hood-- DO NOT crimp these wires. Solder everything and use
> heat-shrink tubing over the splices. Stagger all the splices or you'll
> have a huge bundle to hide. It's easy to follow the color-coded wires
> and get the right ends back together. It is a very scary thing to start
> cutting and splicing wires, just pay attention to what you're doing and
> it should be OK.
>
> You will also need to get a gas tank with an electric EFI fuel pump. I
> tried to modify my existing tank and it turned out to be more trouble
> than it was worth. I discovered that a tank from a 1985 2WD Toyota EFI
> truck was a straight bolt-in replacement for my '81 tank. I tried to use
> the '86 tank that I got with the engine for it's greater fuel capacity
> but it turned out to be too tall to fit the '81 chassis/box combo.
>
> Under the hood I used a large light relay to power the Ignition fuse and
> the solenoid resistor. The unswitched side of the relay was used as a
> junction box to power the EFI fuse. All of this stuff is in the wiring
> diagram and service manual.
>
> Your first job is going to be to make sure you get all the components.
> 1) Engine and all components, sensors, etc.
> 2) Computer (ECU- Electrical Control Unit)
> 3) Air cleaner/air mass sensor assembly
> 4) Solenoid resistor (silver-colored finned thing that mounts on
> passenger side inside fender)(I think that's where it was on the
> original, that's where it ended up on mine) Mounted this and the relay on
> the little bracket that held all the 22R vacuum stuff on the
> passenger side inner fender.
> 5) EFI relay- little round thing that plugs into the fuse box
> 6) Fuel pump relay- looks like the EFI relay, also in the fuse box
> (get the fuse box too, it's part of the under-dash wiring
> harness)
> 7) ALL the wiring you can get your hands on-- at least get the
> wiring for all the above components. Extra wiring is always nice
> in case you need to make something.
> 8) Coil/ igniter assembly for the ECU
>
> I only had to make a few connections from the EFI wiring to the existing
> truck wiring, only 4-6 wires as I recall. Also had to hook up a "Check
> Engine" light for the smog inspection. Used a red LED from Radio Shack,
> grounded one side and hooked the other wire to a purple lead coming from
> the ECU- works beautifully. Again, all this can be found on the wiring
> diagram.
>
> Used the coil/ ignition from the '86 since I assumed it would be more
> compatible with the ECU. Figured the '81 coil/igniter assembly would
> probably have the wrong electronic values and freak out the ECU.
>
> Also, in case you haven't figured this out, it's going to scare the hell
> out of you to turn the key on after you do this installation. One wrong
> wire and I assume the ECU is fried. Scared the hell out of me but I
> apparently got it all right, because it's been running great for about
> five years now.
>
> Get all the parts, lay them all out where you think you'll install them,
> then plug everything together. Try to get a feel for everything before
> you start cutting wires. Also, this will tell you if you DO have all the
> parts.
>
> Also, I'd be real careful with that turbo-the Toyota turbos had a
> different computer than the non-turbos. Also a turbo engine typically
> has thicker pistons to dissipate the heat-- I don't know what Toyota did
> with these. Might want to post this to the list and let some of the
> Toyota techs answer this question.
>
> Hope this gives you a start.
>
> Glad to answer any more questions you might have later.
>
> Dave
>
>
> PS--I managed to delete all my past files tonight-- would you post this
> to the list and also E-Mail me the address to the Toy 4x4 list?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave
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Date: Sat, 14 Nov 1998 16:17:49 -0500
From: "C. Andrew Zook"
Subject: 22R - 22RE for $100 (LONG Update)
Please reply to me via e-mail since I am on Digest mode
OK.... I just returned home from the junkyard with (almost) all of the parts
that I need to convert my '84 22R to a 22RE. I was planning on taking the
parts from an '86 Toyota Celica, but discovered that it had a different
computer since it was an automatic. I chose another Celica that is an '82
22REC because it was a standard transmission, only had 140,000 miles, and
looked marginally simpler than the '86. When originally asked, the junkyard
said $50 but though I would only be taking the manifold. They charged me
$100 for the following parts:
Entire intake
Passenger side wiring harness - including computer
Sensors
Distributor
Throttle cable
front end fuel lines
I still need the following parts and will return next weekend for them (I
needed a few tools I did not take).
Driver's side wiring harness
Exaust manifold
Cam
Coil/Ignitor
Fuel pump - EFI needs higher fuel pressure
I have come up with some "new" questions:
1. What is the difference between a 22RE and a 22REC
2. What is the difference between an auto and a manual computer?
2. Can I clean the existing injectors? How?
3. Where is the best place to buy injectors? Should I spend the $ and get
the flow matched ones?
4. I am planning on hot tanking the manifold..What else should I do to it?
(Bead blast?, Clear powder coat?)
5. What is the best way to clean all of the sensors (I think I mean
temperature sensors)?
6. Is there a kit of gaskets for the EFI manifold? or must I buy them
seperately?
Since the Celica had cruise and I will not be installing it, I would like to
install a hand throttle where the cruise mounted. I was thinking that I will
either get another throttle cable, or use a bicycle brake cable for this.
Some things I learned that may be of interest to others thinking of
performing this swap:
There are 2 parts to the wiring harness that both run into the computer. The
passenger side harness goes to the injectors, TPS, and other sensors located
on the intake. The drivers side harness runs across the dash, through the
firewall, and up to the O2 sensor, diagnostic terminals, and other things on
the driver's side of the engine compartment. I have not yet taken this
harness out, so I do not know everything that it connects to.
The Celica computer is mounted behind the glove box rather than down at the
passenger side floorboard.
Unlike the exaust side, all of the bolts come right out without breaking. I
used Aero-Croil - a penetrating oil for the first time. It works soooo much
better than liquid wrench.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 21 Nov 1998 23:20:35 -0500
From: "C. Andrew Zook"
Subject: EFI Update (now on the 3rd week)
An update on my EFI progress...
I returned to the junkyard today and stripped the entire wiring harness out
from under the Celica's dash. I did not want to sort through it all while
out in the cold, so I took it all home with me. I think I made a mistake in
choosing a model with all of the power options (power door locks, windows,
heated seats, power mirrors, power up the wazoo). I think I hauled 20lbs of
wire out of that place! I am thinking that it would have been easier to get
from a car with no factory options, but hindsight is always 20-20. The
manifold is back from the hot tanking and at the airport (my roomate is a US
Air mechanic) being bead blasted as I speak.
To get the harness out of the Celica in unmolested form, I had to remove the
entire dash, both front fenders, center console, ect.
This whole thing looks like it will be a lot more work than I had imagined,
but I have the whole winter complete it!
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