Exhaust Upgrade
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 22 Mar 1997 09:55:00 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: performance exhaust
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Dylan Keon wrote:
"When installing a better exhaust like Borla...
I'm thinking of getting the Dynomax Super
Turbo exhaust from Performance...how loud is
it? Performance says it's not much louder
than the stock one, and that "it doesn't
just sound more powerful, it is".
Here's another $.02 on mufflers, courtesy of my buddy Len Mullin. Len owns
a shop in Mt. View, CA, called Custom Muffler. It's the shop BTB sends
their $25,000 custom 'Cruisers to have a custom exhaust built. It's the
shop drag racers, road racers, autocrossers, and off-road teams have
exhausts and other stuff fabbed at. Len does the muffler biz 3 days a week,
does custom fab work (tube-framed race cars, etc.) 2 days, and races on the
weekend. He knows his stuff. He has his own flow bench. He recently put a
new cat, Walker DynoMax muffler, and custom 2.25" exhaust on my truck. Man,
this guy does great work. Anyway, enough background. Here's his take on
mufflers:
Borla - he makes "...more money on these than a man should be
allowed to," but hates to sell them because they blow or burn out rapidly
and he has to replace them. Borla reimburses him via their million-mile
warranty ("5000 miles at a time!" he laughs), but he says many Borlas blow
out in as little as 2 to 3 weeks. People tend to buy them because of the
name, he says. They flow fairly well. He does not recommend them to
friends.
Flowmaster - he sells these to guys that want the Mustang 5.0
marine motor sound, or the Flowmaster sticker on their window. They flow
about 30% less than an equivalent DynoMax. "Not a good deal," he says,
"considering they cost about 2 to 3 times as much as an equivalent
DynoMax." He makes a pretty good margin on these.
Walker DynoMax - These come in several flavors, but for the street,
Len recommends the Super Turbo. At $30, his margin is almost nothing.
"But," he says, "they flow the best, last the longest, and are quiet. I
recommend them because people leave here happy, their exhausts last
forever, they recommend me to their friends, and I get more business every
day than I can handle in 8 hours."
I like the DynoMax. It's quiet, and to tell the truth, nothing is going to
make a stock 22R sound like a Keith Black hemi. Performance-wise, power is
about the same as a straight exhaust, maybe a little more extreme low end.
I recommend them.
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 26 Mar 1997 15:29:55 -0800 (PST)
From: James W Tom
Subject: More Muffler Sounds...V6
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Steve,
I really don't have an answer for how a Toy V6 sounds on Flowmasters, so
it'll be my guess that it may resemble that off a Buick six or something
similar. Them Buicks, espsecially the hair drier motivated ones, never
really do sound like a "muscle car". More often than not, anything
smaller than an 8 cylinder gives the oh-so-trendy-lemmee-put-this-3
inch-exhaust-on-my-sister's-civic sound. But then again, it all depends
on what kind of cam, compression, tubing size, catalytic converter
equipped or not, that youv'e got.
IMHO, the superturbo or equivalent is what I'll plunk my money down for.
I can't really justify paying $200 bucks for a stainless borla system
unless a you work for a magazine and got it for free. Flowmasters are
the rage since they sound different and every wannabe "Top 10 Shootout"
car has 'em. And hey, when you jump your truck and land on a park bench,
you'll be happy that your $24.95 muffler bit the dust instead of a $80
flowmaster ;>. Most truck motors are torque motors anyway so the
backpressure should keep the torque in the lower revs where it should be.
I remember somebody posted a while back that they have superturbos on
their runner, or was it a flowmaster?
And BTW, Perry does look pretty gnarly for a millionaire.....but that's
what drugs do to you, I guess. He was pretty cool and gave us Lolapalooza
tix though.
Jimmy Tom
92 p/u
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 27 Mar 1997 09:03:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Kevin Valentine
Subject: Borla Cat-Back
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I've just installed the Borla Cat-back on my '88 4Runner V6. I must say
I'm not sure I'm satisfied. I could not get it to fit how I think it
should. It absolutely will not hook up to the 2 hangers for the muffler
section. The tail pipe (end) section is not positioned properly now that
I've had to move the other pieces to get the muffler off the shock
absorber. When I started the install I soon found that the stock gasket
did not fit over the Borla. I called Borla and they ended up telling me
it does not require a gasket, that stainless will expand and contract and
to get a good seal I would have to heat up the system, let cool, tighten
it and repeat the procedure. Well, I did this and it still leaked and I
ended up twisting off a couple corners of one of the bolts. I bought a
new gasket and hammered the thing over the Borla "making it fit" which did
not look really nice! Put the bolts in and started tightening it as it
came together I put some gasket and pipe sealer around the flange pieces
and then tightened it up as far as it would go - (this is when the bolt
got rounded off). I'm really not sure if I got any more power out of the
thing. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention that the gasket seemed to seal it
up pretty good. I'm just worried about getting the bolt back out or
having to tighten it some more. I'll probably replace the bolt because I
think my chances are better in getting the thing out that tighter at this
point.
I'd like to know how others experiences installing the Borla went. Like I
say, I don't seem to notice much more power, if any but it does sound a
little different. Just a bit more throatier. I noticed more of a
difference in performance just by adding the K&N filtercharger. I think
this reflects a different result than one of the other list members who
said he felt the big gain when he installed the Borla after the K&N.
Did I mention that the tail pipe end section currently curves down towards
the ground a bit which I don't like. I could see it bumping something
when I'm going over some off road terrain. Not good. I'll try again to
reposition it.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:44:02 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #239
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
PRoa125732@aol.com wrote:
>
> 81 toyota SR5, antioch CA---I just put a newer 22r motor in my truck and
> have a small exaust leak by the manifold can any one give me advice or
> remedies. I ,ve taken it all apart put new gaskets on and tighten the
> s--t out of it still leaks --help.....joey antioch e-mail
> (proa125732@aol.com)
Where on the manifold??? At the head or at the flange to the exhaust
pipe? Next time you remove the ex. manifold, lay a straightedge accross
the flange to check for surface flatness--I'll bet it is warped.
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 135,000 Miles
brinkjm@earthlink.net 32" BFG All-Terrain T/As
Stock 4.10 gears
Rear Lock-Right (TRD)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:18:17 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Exhaust System
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Christopher Knight wrote:
"I'm preparing to have a new exhaust system put
on my 85 truck with the 22RE and was wondering
what the opinion is on the proper size for the
best overall power. I've heard that going too
large like 3" may take away some low end power
...is this true....I'm also running...Headers
if this makes a difference to size of exhaust."
I'm running a 2.25" exhaust from the collector back, but my truck's motor
and exhaust manifold are totally stock. According to Kenny at Downey, a
2.5" is preferable if you're running a header/hot rod intake. I have to say
he was right on the money to recommend a 2.25" for my truck; it runs
awesome, esp. for a 22R that's older than some of the subscribers to this
list.
Conventional thinking in the 60's and 70's held that backpressure was bad;
running a mongo exhaust was the hot setup. Well, we've learned that all
motors aren't running at peak rpm all the time, and that some backpressure
(and things like crossover pipes, etc) is actually beneficial.
I'd talk to some experts (either Toyota aftermarket or really good muffler
shops) about their opinions, but my guess is that you'll be going 2.5".
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 07:54:52 -0400
From: john skaggs
Subject: Exhaust System
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> From: Christopher Knight
> Subject: Exhaust System
>
> I'm preparing to have a new exhaust system put on my 85 truck with the
> 22RE and was wondering what the opinion is on the proper size for the
> best overall power. I've heard that going too large like 3" may take
> away some low end power...is this true. Thanks for the help. I'm also
> running Hedman Headers if this makes a difference to size of exhaust.
>
>
> 230,000!!!
I was talking to the guys at L.C. Engineering and they recomended 2" exhaust.
John Skaggs
TLCA# 5560
85 4Runner (gettin taller soon)
Akron, Ohio
John.Skaggs@ab.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:54:59 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: High flow exhaust systems
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Eric Mewhirter wrote:
"I've been talking to local muffler folks who
have been trying to sell two different brands
of low-restriction mufflers. One is called a
megaflow and the other is called a flowmaster.
...It's my understanding that the megaflow is
the quieter of the two...but my ultimate
concern is performance...info on Catalytic
converters is rather vague; the shops tell me
they have "high flow units, 2 1/4 in, 2 1/4
out...this is CA and you gotta have 'em...
they're all the same and none of them honor
their warranty."
...and a lot more worthwhile stuff that I cut for space considerations.
Eric, it sounds like you've found every shyster muffler shop around.
General consensus on the list is that the Flowmaster is a poor application
of a sound scientific principle, and too much money to boot. I can't recall
hearing of Megaflow.
Personal experience tells me that the Walker DynoMax (which comes in
several flavors) is a great muffler at a great price. My muffler guy (Len
Mullin at Custom Muffler, 165 Moffett Blvd., Mt. View, CA 94043, (415)
964-3055) pointed me in that direction, saying essentially that both Borla
and Flowmaster were not worth my money nor his time. I might point out that
the Borla runs in the hundreds, Flowmaster about $80, and the DynoMax $30.
Len is the top muffler guy in the Bay Area; pretty much all the race cars
in the area use him for muffler/exhaust work, and he does beautiful fab
work 2 or 3 days out of the week. Saturday and Sunday he goes racing. If
this sounds like a blatant endorsement, it is. He's a no-BS straight
shooter that charges a very reasonable price. On my truck, he did a
collector-back custom job, including cat and muffler, for $250.
Go your own way, but don't say I didn't try to point you down a path I've
found worthwhile.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:00:45 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: High flow exhaust systems
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
What, you don't like Flowmaster? I wouldn't trade it for anything. I
have the aluminized welded flowmaster and it is great, another thing-
I had one crack because of poor routing and Flowmaster replaced it free
and even paid the labor for a shop to replace from the cat back!
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:58:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: Carfindr@aol.com
Subject: 22R exhaust/Walker DynoMax
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I installed a Dynomax Super Turbo muffler on my '87 reg.cab w/22R along
withlarger diameter tubing from the cat. back and noticed a decent
improvement both low and top end. It was as quiet as the stock exhaust
and over 30,000 miles has only gotten a little louder, actually I was
hoping it would be a little louder, but you can't hear it over the 39"
Mickey Thompsons. About a month after adding the Dynomax, ordered
a header from Performance Products and installed a high flow cat. BIG
difference and still very quiet. Made 5th gear useable again. If you
have a use for it let me know, as I'll have little use for it once the
V8 is in the truck.
Mike Magree
Fleet Manager
John Elway Toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 20:54:41 +0000
From: David Booth
Subject: Dynomax or Flowmaster?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
It's time to replace the muffler on my 1989 V6 4Runner. Since the
tailpipe has bent bent up as well, I've decided to go with a 2-1/2"
cat-back exhaust system. I have two questions that I hope someone can
help me out with.
First, which muffler is better, the aluminized Flowmaster or the
Dynomax? (I know the Borla is the best, but I don't think it's worth
the price).
Second, does anyone know of a vendor that sells a do-it-yourself kit for
an '89 V6 4Runner? I called Performance Parts in California, but they
haven't put together a complete kit yet.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 07 Aug 1997 21:35:13 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Dynomax or Flowmaster?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Go Flowmaster, I had one that cracked because of severely bad routing
(the header holds the exhaust a lot closer to the engine than the stock
exhaust). Anyway Flowmaster not only replaced it but also paid for a
comple cat-back system and labor! I'm sure not everyone will get this
lucky but I would definately buy Flowmaster in the future. By the way I
do have the aluminized muffler and have had it for atleast four years
now.
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 15 Aug 1997 23:42:57 -0700
From: "Michael Medart"
Subject: Borla Exhaust Info
To: "Toy4x4 Digest"
Just for anyone with an '88 V-6 who has wanted a Borla system
but was told (or read) that they only make them for the '89's and
newer, go ahead and get one, it'll fit.
Just put mine in last night. You'll have to do a little
modification: the straight pipe they supply that goes from the cat
to the muffler is "one size fits all" and, obviously, the longest '89
(the X-Tra Cab) is about a foot longer than my X-Tra Cab (which is a
good thing, in my opinion, as far as off-road agility goes) so it has
to be trimmed (hack-sawed). Also, I guess the oxygen sensor location
was changed from in front of the cat (mine) to behind the cat ('89
and newer), 'cause this same straight pipe has a mounting location
and hole welded on to it that will have to be capped or welded shut.
And that's all. The system fit perfectly besides those two minor
things.
Performance: The catalogs claim an "up to 10 horsepower" gain.
Yep, maybe 8 or nine. Feel it especially at freeway speeds, when the
revs are up.
Sound: Heard about that legendary "Borla Sound"? Yep! Sounds
throatier now, yet pretty quiet at lower rpms.
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
Michael Medart, Ventura, CA bigblue@anacapa.net
1988 Toyota 4x4 X-Tra Cab V-6, Rancho/Downey
lift, 4.88 gears, Detroit E-Z locker, ARB Air Locker
Rancho RS 9000's w/remote, Con-Fer shackles/
skid plates and roof rack, 33" BFG Muds. RTI: 651
///////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Oct 1997 12:35:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: exhaust
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
2 years ago, I bought the Downey Off-Road 2.5 inch exhaust system to mate
with my NWOR Tri-Y header (yes, I know, I should be shot for putting them
two of them together). The Downey tail pipe already has several big rust
holes in it. Everything back from that, including the muffler, is ok, but
the chrome is going fast. The Aluminized muffler is doing the best as far
as rust is concerned and I would get an aluminized exhaust system over a
chrome system.
Dr. Karl Bellve
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 23:41:24 -0400
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: 2" exhaust on 22R-TEC
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I just want to inform you guys.
I install the Dynomax Super Turbo 2" system (the same system as the one
Performance Product offer) on my truck today. And compared to the generic
non branded replacement that I have before this makes a lot of differences.
And the total cost is only $116 + tax from my local Speedy muffler shop.
This is the same or even less than with most non performance muffler
system. The Turbo Lag is much less noticeable, almost like normally
aspirated 22R but when I press the accelerator the boosts kick in. The
performance is much better compared to the one I replaced. Now my 5th gear
is good again for 50 MPH, previously it has a difficult time maintaining
speed at 50 MPH on a slight uphill slope. I run stock gearing and 31"X
10.5" Goodyear Wrangler AT.
I want to install the 2.5" system but require custom work and a new Cat and
also cost too much for me at this time.
I haven't got the mileage figures for now. But I think should be better
since I don't have to press the accelerator as much as before.
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 11:13:32 -0500
From: "Brian J. Schmidt"
Subject: 2" exhaust on 22R-TEC
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Just another note on exhaust...Yoy can get the same system (Dynomax) from
Summit Auto Racing for $79 and install it yourself...it is the direct fit
for your Toyota truck...not just a made up kit...all parts fit and it's a
bolt in operation...
I'd rate this 1/4 - 1/2 bananas...:)
Personal note to Agustinus...If you change your diff gearing, 5th gear will
again become a useful part of society...
Brian
-------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 19:05:03 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Borla:
To: toy4x4@tlca.org, PKN7564@acs.tamu.edu
Here's my $0.02 worth..
I have an 89 (gen1) 4Runner with a pickup Borla system (have to remove the
little plastic side bumper extensions, but gain clearance).
The Borla pipes are good - they "brown" but have nto rusted through in
200K/6 years of use.
The muffler however is another story. While not "rused out" it looses the
"packing" in a real short order - and then gets "loud". While prpbably
not as obnoxious as a flowmaseter, its not exactly quiet - although at
idle its not too noticeable.
Borla wont send a new muffler w/o seeing the old one - they didnt even
seem amenable to the I'll pay for the new one if they refund me on
return of the old one...
I dunno - maybe I'll get a Dynomax or something - but it still is in once
piece here in the NE rust belt - which sez something.
Also - there is a weld or two loose inside the muffler - it rattles
sometimes at idle.
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 22:53:24 -0600
From: Jody Young
Subject: Muffler Talk...and one for sell
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I put on a Flowmaster exhaust on my truck about 2 - 3 months ago and
have been VERY pleased with the added performance, but I didn't know
much about Flowmaster exhaust products when I purchased it from my local
muff shop. Now I know that I wanted their 3 chamber instead of their
two chamber muffler. I also think I would consider spending the extra
money for the Borla (someone mentioned they found it for about $100 in a
catalog). Mine is not messing up or anything, just a bit louder than I
originally wanted.
The question of performance of the several aftermarket companies
mufflers has come up on different occasions, but IMHO you're not going
to get much difference in the "flow" especially when comparing to
factory exhaust. If these are the same mufflers used on these big V8's,
hell, my little four banger won't come close to being restricted by the
muffler at all! (especially since my cat. converter has been LOST for
some time now)
Last thing...if someone wants a Flowmaster with about 3000-4000 miles on
it for a good deal, email me and make an offer. I think I'll go with a
3 chamber Flowmaster or a Borla. BTW, mine has 2 1/2" ins and outs.
I live in Lousiana, so I know none of you are close by, but I'll UPS it
for you.
- --
**************************************************************
94 Toyota Xtracab, 22RE, Swamper 30 x 11.50's TSL SX's, Downey
Header, K&N filter, Flowmaster/custom exhaust, Warn X8000i,
and more to come...
**************************************************************
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------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Nov 1997 13:27:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Magnaflow Muffler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Last week I replaced the muffler and tail pipe. I did not want to use a
kit because I don't like the stock location for the exaust system. The
entire system hangs down too far and the exit point is too low. So I went
to the local econo muffler shop and they set me up with a muffler that was
much smaller and flater that the stock unit. They were able to mount the
unit 4" higher than stock, so it is up there out of the way. and the tail
pipe now exits right at the body line, about 6" higher than before. I had
long ago removed the crome side pices. After I put a 1" body lift on
I plan to relocate the Cat up about 2" to try and keep it from harm. The
muffler the shop used was a magnaflow 2.5" unit and I wanted to tell
everone this is a great muffler so far, I think I can feel a little
more power above 2500 RPM.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:23:00 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Borla not lound enuff
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>>>
my other question is... i have a BORLA exhaust, and it is not as
"loud" as i thought it to be. you must put your face up to it to hear it
<<<
Umm you could take mine - I guess Im gettin a bit old for the
lound truck thing.
If ya wrap the header in thermo tec of like material - the heat
will
1) melt the cat (hmm - a hollow cat?)
2) burn out all the packing in the Borla
3) eventually melt the headers
Anyway - wait a while - IMHO the Borla will "burn out" in
about 3 months and it will be louder - and also have
an annoying "ring" as the muffler case resonates.
EWong
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 5 Dec 1997 20:23:10 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: cat back systems(mufflers)
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
I didn't know that. I watch them install it and look like a smooth
operation. It only took them less than 30 minutes to install. But maybe
because mine is Shortbed regular cab model.
- -----Original Message-----
From: Ken Emanuel [SMTP:Emanuel@csus.edu]
Sent: Friday, December 05, 1997 4:21 PM
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Subject: Re: cat back systems(mufflers)
Agustinus Gunawan wrote:
>
> Dynomax have a bolt-on 2" Cat-Back system for 22R
> I have it and very pleased with the gain.
> Could cost you around $95 if you install it your self.
> I got mine for $116 + tax installed.
Right, I checked into this any many people told me that
the "bolt-on" Dynomax systems required quite a bit of
modifications to get it to hang right (particularly on
Xtra-cabs). I didn't have time to mess with it, so I
paid $130 for the custom system and that includes
having it installed. If I would have had the time,
I probably would have gone the route you are referring to.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ken Emanuel Emanuel@csus.edu
'87 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:37:41 -0500
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: 2.25 or 2.5 Exhaust
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> This is true. His turbo boost comes up quicker and stronger, but at the
> expense of noise. In doing it over again, he wouldn't go with 2.5"
> exhaust.
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
> Ken Emanuel Emanuel@csus.edu
> '87 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
> http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
> *-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Bahhhhhh, noise shmoyize, we talking trucks or Geo's?????
Go for 2.5 or 3 inch even better:) Jack can tell you about the later.
(I recall mention of 70+ all the way to Moab even on inclines)
Let's get that motor to roar.
FYI I have 2.5 exhaust on my truck along with Downey headers and it was
the number 1 power increaser out of all the mods I have done, which
include a Weber Carb, Cam, Jacobs ignition and of course a rebuild.
I bought the exhaust last, BIG mistake I probably woould have been happy
with just headers and exhaust not all the other stuff.
Sheldon
sgard@flnet.com
http://www.flnet.com/~sgard
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 Jan 98 18:02:37 -0700
From: Jeff Moskovitz
Subject: New exhaust system = big smile!
To: "Toyota list"
I just got my truck back from the muffler shop, and boy am I happy!!
Thanks to Nick Krest and Scott Wilson, who in earlier posts recommended
Custom Muffler in Mountain View, CA. For anyone who's looking for custom
exhaust work in the Bay Area, this shop does *great* work.
Len Mullin, the owner, fabricated a 2.5" system for my 1986 R-TE using a
Random Technologies cat and a DynoMax Super Turbo muffler.
I am REALLY happy with the results: the turbo spools up much more
quickly, and there is a very noticeable increase in power throughout the
engine's range. Since the stock wastegate setting is a rather low 8 psi,
I am now building full boost at around 2500 RPM (as opposed to 3800 RPM
with the stock exhaust). Yee-haw!
Anyway, thanks to everyone who offered advice. With this system in place,
the stage is set for some interesting future projects: an intercooler,
big bore throttle body, and variable boost controller.
Jeff
- -------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jeff Moskovitz 1986 22R-TE truck
Senior Support Specialist 2.5" exhaust, Random Tech
Claris Corporation cat, DynoMax muffler,
Rancho RS9000 shocks,
jeff_moskovitz@claris.com lots 'o stereo.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 19:37:39 -0800
From: Ken Emanuel
Subject: Dynomax muffler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Dan Newby wrote:
>
> Has anyone used one of the Dynomax low restriction mufflers on a 3.0 V6?
>
I have a Dynomax on my 22R-E, and I wouldn't buy anything else. I
definately noticed an increase in power (mainly because the old muffler
had a lot of restriction in it), but I like the sound better than any other.
It sounds a little deeper outside, but sounds no different from stock
inside. It would sound even better on your V6.
I vote for Dynomax.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ken Emanuel Emanuel@csus.edu
'87 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 20 Jan 1998 02:03:24 -0800
From: Kenneth Fong
Subject: Dynomax muffler
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, newbyd@ipix.com
I have the cat-back bolt-on 2" mandrel bent Dynomax with the Super Turbo
muffler.The sound is just right. It's not too loud. I did notice an
improvement in throttle response off the line and in the powerband.
The Ultraflow is suppose to be one of the least restrictive but it's
expensive and loud. This is on a '90 4-Runner.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 08:14:47 -0800
From: Michael Henry
Subject: Final word on exhuast
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
>
> > My opinion would be to go with the Flowmaster 3-chamber on the 3.0L.
> > It makes for a nice, throaty sound. My brother ran one on his without
>
> Are there different types of Flowmaster mufflers? Like Dynomax has the
> ultra flow (looks like a borla--you can see light on the other side) and
> the super turbo (baffled).
>
Well, yes and no. Yes, there are a few different designs, but they all
use baffles. The three chamber muffler has an additional chamber with
extra baffling to quiet the can down. It is also about twice the price
of the 2-chamber Flowmaster though. Big profit maker for Flowmaster
because I know how much extra time and materials go into them, I used to
build them. I've put the two-chambered mufflers onto 3 of my vehicles,
two V-8's and one four-cylinder with a header and 2 1/2" pipe (not a
Toyota). My recommendation is with a four cylinder go with the three
chamber or go with a Dynomax. The sound can be quite annoying with the
two-chamber, especially with a header.
Michael Henry
Forestville, CA
henry@sonic.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 21:27:41 -0600
From: "Michael Rowe"
Subject: New Muffler Results
To:
After reading the archives about the best bang for the buck muffler I went
with the Dynomax. I had a local muffler shop install it. I basically took it
to them and said "I want a Dynomax Super Turbo". I had looked up the OEM fit
muffler at http://www.a-1performance.com/ which they didn't have. So they
installed an oval with 2.5" in and outs as well as 2.5" tail pipe. They were
also able to stuff it way up under the truck. I couldn't believe the
difference it made in performance. My old muffler always made a
ffffftttttttt sound when giving it the juice like it was clogged. It wasn't
it was just small. Now my exhaust is a little louder and sounds a lot like
the newer stock 4Runners. It sounds good and drives a lot better from 2500
to 3000 RPM's. If you're contemplating a new muffler I'd say get a Dynomax
SuperTurbo. My friend is getting one for his '90 xtra cab V6.
Michael Rowe
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 28 Jan 1998 22:45:42 -0800
From: Ken Emanuel
Subject: New Muffler Results
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Michael Rowe wrote:
>
> If you're contemplating a new muffler I'd say get a Dynomax
> SuperTurbo. My friend is getting one for his '90 xtra cab V6.
>
> Michael Rowe
I agree. I am very happy with the increased performance and the lack of
exhaust noise. The Dynomax is a good choice.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ken Emanuel Emanuel@csus.edu
'87 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:01:01 -0600
From: Jody Young
Subject: Borla and Flowmaster...ask me in about a week
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
There have been many questions about which muffler people prefer. I
have been running a two-chamber Flowmaster for about 5 or 6 months now
and today I ordered a Borla from Jegs. It should be in next week, so if
anyone wants to know the difference, email me in about a week and a
half. BTW, the reason I am going to the Borla is that the Flowmaster is
just a bit too loud for my taste. (should have bought the three-chamber
originally)
Jody
- --
**************************************************************
94 Toyota Xtracab, 22RE, Swamper 30 x 11.50's TSL SX's, Downey
Header, K&N filter, Flowmaster/custom exhaust, Warn X8000i on
Warn Combo kit, KC Daylighters, and more to come...
**************************************************************
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:20:53 -0500
From: "penny"
Subject: Dynomax muffler???????
To:
Anybody out there had experience with adding the Dynomax super
turbo.???????..Exhaust is in great shape....just wondering whether it or
any other aftermarket muffler is worth the effort???? Do not want a
weed-eater-on crack sound either.Any input greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!1
Yes thats the muffler im running, replaced the stock 16 year old factory
unit w/it
on my 82 there was no cat when the truck was purchased :) the part #17731
was recomended by somone on the list and was perfect for my toy. its an
offset in, center out 2 1/4" in/out. sounds quiet and gets throaty as the
rpms increase, a big increase in power, something you will feel.
Jimmy 82Toy4x4 L.B.
purnrgy@quancon.com
http://www.geocities.com/baja/6397/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 16:59:03 -0600
From: "Mark "
Subject: Dynamex Muffler
To:
>Anybody out there had experience with adding the Dynomax super
>turbo.???????..Exhaust is in great shape....just wondering whether it or
>any other aftermarket muffler is worth the effort???? Do not want a
>weed-eater-on crack sound either.Any input greatly appreciated!!!!!!!!1
First thing I did when I bought my truck was put 2 1/4 inch stainless
exhaust and a Dynamax Super Turbo. It works great...I got way more top end
power and it doesn't sound like a weed-wacker. It sounds really cool and it
even makes those guys with their Supra's look.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 11:36:48 -0400
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: SS band clamps
Has anyone used these instead of normal clamps? I need to rebuild my
exhaust system (luckily, only the tail pipe needs doing). The original
Downey 2.5" chrome is rusting away. Tail pipe is rusted away behind the
muffler. I was thinking of getting these band clamps with some 304 SS
2.5 inch tubing and making a tail pipe (it might just last more than a
winter in the NE then). Here is the question, do you need both pipe ends
to be 2.5" O.D.? or, can one be 2.5 I.D and the other 2.5 O.D? Band
clamps looks like it comes for 2.5 O.D, so, you don't actually slip a
pipe into another.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Apr 1998 13:06:33 -0400
From: Darren Floen
Subject: Re: SS band clamps
I use the clamps regularely at work,on big trucks.The have the advantage
of not crimping the pipes together,and the don't normally leak.The pipes
do have to be very close in outside diameter,and they do not slip inside
of each other,but come close to butting up against each other.Don't butt
them,though.If your pipes are a different diameter,the do make stepped
clamps to work in these stuations.Visit you local heavy truck parts
supplier,and ask them to look for what you need in their catalogs.
They'll be able to get most parts like this.While you're waiting,look
around their show/parts room,you'll find lotsa neat stuff!
Darren
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 2 Apr 1998 11:06:51 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Borla cat back exhaust
Menko wants to get a "used" Borla: (he has an 87 4Runner)
- --
Cosidering that these system "new" got for $300 or so -
not too bad a price.
Be fore warned about a few things.
The pickup style exhaust exits above the spring, the
4Runner style will exit below the spring.
On the Gen1 4Runners, this means cutting or removing
the plastic bumperette if you use the pickup style on
a 4Runner (I did and it looks better IMHO).
Maybe Im getting old (I got mine when I was 25, now
am an old fart at 33 and really dont want noisy
truck) but the are LOUD - not as bad as "cherry bombs"
but definatley noticeable. They dend to burn out the
packing relativley quickly.
Rap on the muffler - if it "rings" then there is
no longer any damping material in it.
I wrapped a strip of Thermo Tec around the
outside and it cut down on the "ringing" alot.
Will it make a performace gain - YES
The nice thing is the pipes last forever.
Ive had mine for 200,000+ miles and
while the pipes are brown, they are not
'rusting" away.
I just yanked the Borla muffler and bolted in
a Thrush of similar size. Much quieter (but I
may have lost some power - my ears thank me though).
Hearing aids cost $$$$ (and yes I am getting them,
but I dont think its due to the Boral - at
least the doctor sez so)
I got a bracket from Walker Dynomax that was used to
hang their OEM replacment muffler (I was too lazy
to fab something myself) and used a universal
hanger to hang the muffler.
I also reccomend the stainless "band" style clamps so
that swapping out the muffler (which will probably
turn out to be an annual occurance) will be much simpler.
The band style (about $8 each) will NOT crimp the
pipe together.
Note that the Borla muffler that I got with my kit
used a 2"OD inlet but used a 2"ID outlet.
Thus to get the Thrush to bolt up you need either
a pipe expander (for the outlet side) OR the faster
simper way - a 4" section of 2"OD pipe.
Just use the 4" section to slip fit the muffler
to the Borla tailpipe...
EWong
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Aug 1998 13:55:59 -0700
From: "Adam Jenn"
Subject: cat bak
We have done extensive dyno tests on the 4 cylinder engines and found that
the 2.5"exhaust is too much,after numerous tests we determined that 2.5"
from the header into a 2.5" cat and choked into a 2.0" muffler tailpipe
gives the best performance.Tests done on an 85 4runner(with numerous other
mods) yielded 152.1hp at the rear wheels with a correction factor of 0.99.
RayKumar
GVT4GR
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 02 Sep 1998 17:42:08 -0700
From: Jim Brink
Subject: Re: Overbored throttle body/other mods
dinoc@express-news.net wrote:
>
> Folks:
>
> In my continuing efforts to improve the performance of my
> 22RE-powered 1987 4Runner, I'm giving serious thought to three modifications
> to augment some of the mods I've already made.
>
> Secondly, I want to upgrade my exhaust system. I have a Midas
> cat-back system. This is not for performance. My muffler and tailpipe rusted
> through sometime ago, and I replaced with the a Midas exhaust that mimicks
> the original system long before I knew that an upgraded exhaust system
> boosts performance. It's about 1 7/8 inches in diameter. I'd like to go 2.25
> inches, but I've seen some anti-Borla comments on the list lately and it's
> given me reason to rethink my original choice. However, other cat-back
> systems - Downey and Northwest Off-Road - cost about the same. And, do I
> replace the catalytic converter with a performance one?? The truck has
> 160,000 miles on it.
LC Engineering is coming out with a new aluminized cat-back system very
soon. I beleive it is a 2" system and will retail for quite a bit less
than the Borla system.
Give them a call. They are quite friendly: (520) 505-2501
- --
Jim Brink Toyota/ASE Certified Technician toytech@off-road.com
Manhattan Beach, CA http://www.off-road.com/~toytech/
**********************************************************************
1986 Toyota Standard Bed 4WD
22R - 32x11.50/15 BFG M/T - 4.88s- Downey LSD - EZ Locker
**********************************************************************
TLCA - Friends of the Mojave Road - CA4WDC
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Sep 1998 11:53:37 -0800
From: Jeff Moskovitz
Subject: Re: Overbored throttle body/other mods
Dino,
I've done all three of the mods you mention (and half a dozen others you
haven't gotten to yet). Here's my opinion:
The throttle body mod is a very good one for freeway acceleration,
passing, and other high speed pursuits, because it basically tacks
additional performance on to your wide open throttle (WOT) response. It
will not, however, make your 22RE into a V6 or V8. It will also do
little/nothing for low end torque...which may be OK. It all depends on
where you need the power. If low end torque is your objective, a cam
change may be better. If you want better freeway performance, the TB mod
is a good one.
I have a LC throttle body, and I'm very happy with it. They do a 3.5mm
overbore, and taper bore the "throat" of the throttle body, in addition
to the area around the butterfly valve. There are many other places that
will do a job that is a little less perfect, but still OK, for
considerably less money. Advanced Engine Management (
http:\\www.a-e-m.com ) will do it for about $225, and RC Engineering (
http:\\www.rceng.com ), which is the shop Performance Products uses, will
do it for $250. If you have more specific questions, feel free to email
me.
As for the exhaust, I would agree with Ken's comments that a 2" exhaust
should be about right, and 2.25" might cost you a little low end torque
(with the trade off being a little more top end power). I, too, had a
system custom bent/welded by a very good muffler guy (and here's a plug
for Len Mullin's Custom Muffler in Mtn. View, CA). I added a freeflow cat
and a DynoMax Super Turbo, and I've been very happy with the results. My
advice here would be to find the best local muffler shop you can and let
them put together something for you. Quality costs, but it's money well
spent IMO.
Finally, I have a MSD ignition (currently a MSD 5, but I'll be putting in
a MSD 6 this weekend). I've been a fan of their ignition systems since
high school, and I think they work quite well. Do you need one? That's
hard for me to say. The stock Toy setup is good, but I find the MSD
system to be smoother still. I saw my mileage go up a little (less than 2
mpg, but up is up), and I believe it starts more easily and accelerates a
little bit better. If you are experiencing some hesitation, high end
missing, or other similar maladies, MSD may be a good solution for you.
Summit Racing has all of their stuff for cheap -- $125 for the MSD 6A --
so it's not a huge gamble, like the Jacobs' stuff.
Hope this helps,
Jeff
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 08:50:05 -0400
From: "Karl Bellve, Ph.D."
Subject: Re: 2" vs. 2.5" exhaust
Kenneth Sigel wrote:
>
> I'm definitely looking for power in the low end... though that might change
> if I ever put another t-case next to my crawler box.
>
> Ken
>
I have a SS 2.5" exhaust system plus a NWOR header. The power at the low
end is atleast the same as the stock engine if not a little more. The
power does come on stronger around 2000rpm and on up. I believe my
highway RPM is about 2500rpm, right in the power band. So, a header +
2.5 exahust might not help you crawling but I don't think you need much
help there anyway. A gear reduction is a better choice for crawling. But
if you need more power at highway speed or for passing people, then a
2.5" exhaust is the way to go. I regularly crusing between 70-80mph
(fully loaded or not) and the truck isn't even working hard. I bet I
could do over 100mph easily. Then I talk to other people I have wheeled
with and they can't even maintain 70mph (loaded) with a stock
engine/exhaust. I have a 1985 22RE with a K&N air filter, NWOR header,
and a custom 2.5" exhaust.
- --
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D. ICQ# 13956200
Biomedical Imaging Group IM: kbellve
University of Massachusetts
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-6514
Fax: (508) 856-1840
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Sep 1998 22:23:17 -0600
From: "Mark "
Subject: Exhaust
I put a custom exhaust 2 1/4' from the manifold back with a Dynamax muffler
on my 22R-E and I love it. Mine never pops and I got loads more power. How
many miles on your 22R-E?? You might just need a little tuning but if it
has really high miles it could be your valve springs are too weak.
Date: Fri, 11 Sep 1998 12:44:50 -0700 (PDT)
From: Luke P Miller
Subject: RE: Performance Products is going to love me!!!!
On Thu, 10 Sep 1998, Kenneth Sigel wrote:
>
> If I did the exhaust again, would anyone recommend going with 2" or 2.25"?
> I've heard people say that the 22RE needs more backpressure.
>
> -Ken
I've got 2.25" tubing behind the stock cat and manifold, and the exhaust
likes to pop and burble on deceleration. Not incredibly annoying, but it's
a noise. I'd probably go with 2" if I did it again, maybe even 1.75".
________________________________________________________________________
Luke Miller
umilll02@umail.ucsb.edu Santa Barbara, CA
85 4Runner SR5 22RE 3" front Alcan lift, 3" rear mazda spring conversion,
25.4 mm body lift, RS9000's, rear lock-right, 32" Michelins, #276, other
ugly
garbage
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 15 Oct 1998 08:57:57 -0700
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: Re: Aftermarket Cats
I think that this has been well addressed, but...
Different brands of cats are not going to stop the stinking problem. The
only essential difference you will find is that a larger cat will
decrease back pressure. This is meant to accentuate a complete redo of
the entire system. Scott Wilson just installed one with his header, and
seems to be very happy. I have had a 2.5" cat behind my 22 RTE for over
a year now, and am very happy. I would go with 2.25" behind the cat
though... The other thing, is that these are clamp or weld-on units,
and will not replace the stock unit. A welding shop could weld bolt-on
brackets if you wanted, though.
Jon Brandt
mrodg@juno.com wrote:
>
> This question is for any 4 cyl. owners who have replaced the catalytic
> converter with aftermarket converter. Do you still get the sulfer smell
> coming through the back window under loads such as going up a hill? I am
> planning to replace the entire exhaust system, header and muffler. I
> don't think my cat is clogged or anything, but I just can't stand the
> sulfer smell anymore. If an aftermarket cat will help, it will get
> replaced too.
>
> Thanks in advanced
> Mike Rodgers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:14:32 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: Exhaust system
Dollar for dollar flowmaster of course but that is because it is dirt cheap
next to Borla, I am sure it is good just out of my budget, no probs with my
flowmaster though - and I had it warranteed once cause it cracked. I got a
new one installed for free..
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 7 Nov 1998 21:39:50 -0800
From: "jskaggs"
Subject: Re: Exhaust system
Instead of getting one of those systems go to an exhaust shop and have them
install the tubing you need and put on a Magna Flow muffler it should be a
lot cheaper and the Magna Flow mufflers are built very well and IMO they
sound good too.
John Skaggs
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Dec 1998 19:43:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Karl D. Bellve, Ph.D."
Subject: RE: Exhaust & Body Lift ???'s
On Tue, 22 Dec 1998 cscotti@econophone.com wrote:
> I was planning on making some kind of custom hangers for the exhaust and
> running the cat and the muffler about an inch and a half higher. I agree
> the most important place is behind the rear axle. I was thinking of dumping
> it right behind the drivers side rear tire through/above the custom bumper I
> am making. Where did you route yours?
>
> BTW, what do you think of the NWOR headers and Borla exhaust? How much were
> the headers?
Well, I would get the LC headers instead. They are ceramic coated and use
the stock exhaust manifold gasket. I bought some straight 304 SS from
JcWhitney and some 304 SS flex tubing. I believe 5 ft of each, about $100.
The Borla muffler was another $100. Then I also used SS band clamps. The
Borla muffler is alot louder than stock but it does allow more power at
the highway RPM range. I don't think the high performance exhaust helps at
low rpms, perhaps it even hurts. But, I believe the best way to get torque
at low rpms is with a gear change, or a extra transfer case. I also
frabricated hangers out of slotted gavalanized angle iron. It won't rust
quickly and plenty of holes for bolts.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 17 Jan 1999 20:34:29 -0500
From: mrodg@juno.com
Subject: Re: Exhaust
I recently had a muffler shop put an exhaust on my 88 4runner 22re. 2
1/4 inch stainless steel pipe (stock is 1 3/4) with just a generic turbo
muffler for $145 ($125 + $20 for the stainless). It seems to have given
me a slight increase in pep. I can hold a higher gear longer on big
hills. It sounds pretty good, but not that sure as there is a big crack
in the manifold pipe. I plan on replacing manifold and down pipe with LC
Engineering header soon hopefully. Not planning on replacing cat,
haven't heard much of it robbing power from this list to warrant
replacement for performance cat unless clogged up.
Mike Rodgers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 14:27:37 -0800
From: "Roger Brown, P.E."
Subject: Re: Exhaust
>> 1.) I've got an '88 22RE Pick-up and I'm looking to replace the
entire
>> exhaust system. Anyone have recommendations on where to go for
headers,
>> cat, and a cat-back system? I'm familiar with and considering Downey
>> headers and a Borla pipe and muffler... Anything else I should
>> be looking at?
I recently did a 2" cat-back exhaust on my '85 4Runner. I used a 30" s/s
glass-pack style muffler and 2" flex tubing for the tail pipe. Made a
noticeable difference across the RPM band. I've found a 1-gear improvement in
some highway grades that I've tried since the swap. I hope to be doing the LC
headers shortly. I have a Borla in my diesel pickup and its a good muffler
too. The Borla was quieter than the glass pack on it. On the 4Runner, the
glass pack is just barely audible over the road noise on the highway. My
stock exhaust pipe was 1-5/8" OD from the cat back. I just cut it off behind
the cat and converted to 2" ID at that point.
- --
Roger Brown http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/4Runner.html
------------------------------
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