Flywheels - Heavy Duty (30 lb)

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Date: Thu, 19 Mar 1998 15:01:34 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: HD Flywheels

Well, I have an HD 30lb flywheel on my 22RE

Im not sure if it helps.. but it seems to
The steel seems to be much better than the OEM "cast" flywheel. It
has a "ring" to it like high end gun metal.
My OEM flywheel was turned once. - so it was "lightened".
It had great acceleration, but needed a little help when climbing hills, I
had to downshift sometimes when I only needed a "little bit more" umph.

On the plus side - it saves you down time from sending the flywheel off to the
machine shop....

I dunno if its the most cost efective improvement - but I like it -
maybe I just dont want to feel like a fool for spending the $275.

EWong



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Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 09:43:35 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Clutch Options

I have a 22RE Gen1 IFS 4Runner

I have a Centerforce Dual Friction with the 30lb flywheel.
The accel is not "snappy" as it used to be, but it dosen't bog on
the hills as much either.

However, the leaking rear main isnt helping anything either.

I like the setup, but Im gonna have to do something about it soon
to fix the leak.
I think its gonna need new bearings in the bottom (both rods and crank)
as I tried just yanking the thrust bearings, but that didnt help much)

EWong



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Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
X-Lotus-Fromdomain: AMGROUP@INTERNET
To: barney@flowpoint.com
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:55:42 -0400
Subject: Re: heavy fly wheel


Whups - I type too fast and dont use the spell checker as much as I should...

The OEM flywheel was "turned" at 100K (for a new LUK clutch).
Therefore it was "lightened".
Acceleration was GREAT - especially blasting off from stoplights.
I was running 4.10 gears with 235/75R15 tires (slightly larger than stock).

At 200K I put in the 30lb flywheel and a Centerforce DualFriction.
Unfortunatly, the rear main was still leaking (even after replacement)
so the clutch probably sticks a bit now.

Accel is still good (now with 4.56 gears and 31x10.5 BFG Rad ATs).
It does not "zip" as much after the stoplights, but I dont have
to downshift on the hills either.

6 in one, 1/2 dozen in the other.
Accel is close to stock.
Hills are *better* than stock.
.......

If I had unlimited funds - what I would really like is a "splitter"
gear setup - running at 10% to 15% under as well as a 10% higher
6th gear (and a second 4.70 marlin lower as well)

Thus:
  around town - run 10% under
  on highway run "normal" and use the taller 6th gear to keep RPMs down to
      2800rpm at 75-80
  off road run both the stock 2.26 and 4.70 marlin gears for low, lower and really low
      gears...

Unfortunately, the NV4500 does not have the gear ratios I want...
A Richmond 6 speed runs a gear between 3rd and 4th, not what I
   want either....
Advanced Adapters has that Ranger two speed splitter box, runs either 27% over or 17% under -
  a bit more than I want to do (at least with the stock gear ratios on the W56 box)

Perhaps a Supra 6 speed? I dunno the ratios though.
(can you tell that the net drives crashed so I cant do work at work?)

EWong

----
>I have a Centerforce Dual Friction with the 30lb flywheel.
>The accel is ans "snappy" as it used to be, but it dosent bog on
>the hills as much either.

Ed,
can you help me here, is "ans" a misspelling of AS,
The accel is AS "snappy" as it used to be
or is "ans" a misspelling of NOT,
The accel is NOT "snappy" as it used to be

I am thinking of the heavy flywheel myself, and have been wondering
about the affects.
Thanks - Barney


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Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 11:15:10 -0500
From: Steve Harron 
Subject: RE: 30 lb. flywheel, new clutch

> From: dphills1@mmm.com
> Subject: 30 lb. flywheel, new clutch.
> 
> Question
> Anyone have any experience with 30 lb. flywheels?
> Good, bad or indifferent? Costs? Downsides?
> Off road benefits, trailer pulling?
> 
> How about clutches? Several people have mentioned Downey's
> super clutch, how about Centerforce, also doesn't Toyota
> offer a heavy duty replacement clutch.
> Just seeking some input from the field.
> 
> Doug Hills
> dphills1@mmm.com
> 
        [Steve Harron]  I put the heavier flywheel and Downey clutch in
my truck about 10K miles ago.  Centerforce is the manufacturer for the
flywheel and I got it SLIGHTLY cheaper by buying from them instead of
Downey.  The flywheel does make a noticeable torque difference (still,
nothing like a diesel).  Oddly enough, I have noticed better gas mileage
with the heavier flywheel.  The clutch seems to hold tightly.  I haven't
really been in a situation where it would slip much because I never tow
anything.  Would I do it again.  Yes.  I like the setup.   
> .

============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 19:11:24 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Clutch Woes!

Well - so much for my glowing review on the 30lb Flywheels
and Centerforce Dual Friction clutches.

After two years and 60K miles of Mobil 1 leaking on the
clutch - it now slips like mad! :(

I had a spare flywheel (from a friend who also made the 30lb swap -
I got the flywheel as "payment" for doing much of the work and
lending almost all of the tools!
Shop near me in WestChester PA charged $42 to cut the flywheel
(its a two step job).
I got a BorgWarner OEM Clutch kit for $118 + $5 for the pilot bearing.
Turns out Yota would charge $115 for an "OEM" kit...
The BW parts look like Yota OEM anyway. The disk uses
rubber springs - similar to the LUK clutch I used to have.

I have a new rear main seal - but I doubt it will help much.
(Yeah - I'll replace the rear main as well - Im in there anyway).
Im gonna switch over to Castrol GTX dino oil in
hopes that it will seal better.
(after 270K - who cares about engine wear anyway?)

I wanted to get a set of main bearings, but it seems that they are
sized specific to the engine - so I gotta get the numbers
off the block and rods in order to get new bearings...

LC sez that the Yota bearings were sized out to 0.000x (versus
the normal 0.00x) sizes - hence the wacky need for sizing.

Is this true? Or can I just slip in a set of std bearings and call
it a (long) day?

EWong



============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota

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Date: Mon, 18 May 1998 11:01:32 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Clutch woes - part Deux

Ok - this is gonna ramble but there are some tidbits here - somewhere...
      re: 30LB Flywheel
      re: Leaky Rear main
      re: 22RE Fuel Filter

Well another marathon weekend of wrenching (not as much fun as
wheelin, but it feels good when you are done).

As some may know - the clutch was slipping - and it was a Centerforce
Dual Friction and a 30lb flywheel (also Centerforce).
It seems that for 2 years and 67K miles, oil was leaking onto the
clutch. I thought is was the rear main seal and ordered new bearings
for the bottom of the 22RE block (thrust, mains, rods) but NO - it
was NOT the trusty 22RE (267K and still rolling - although I am wondering
about the chain).
Took the trans out and the flywheel - and lo - the rear main area was DRY.. 
also it appears that the clutch was wearing out from the *inside* diameter 
and not from the outer edge... uh oh - tranny leaks...
Well I replace the rear main anyway since I had a new seal, and I checked
the surface real good. - no wear marks at all.
That 30lb flywheel was in pretty good shape too - it was "burnt" where the
clutch was slipping (and the clutch was *soaked* in synth gear oil),
but it was *not* scored - just burnt/polished. I love the ring that the
steel has - kinda musical!
It also seems that the 30lb flywheel uses 2 dowels instead of 3 like
the OEM flywheel does - and I seemed to have tossed a dowel as well.
It ended up behind the "splash plate" next to the rear main seal - I dunno
how it got back there, but there were a few chips and dings inside the
bell housing.
Well - I set the splash plate outside and cleaned if off with brake cleaner.
I now use a spray bottle and the "liquid" brake cleaner along with a
3M organic vapor mask and goggles - makes the job that much more fun
(dont have to hold your breath any more) and the liquid stuff
is way cheaper than the spray bottles. Works just as good.
Gave the splash shield and the ERG pipes a coat of hitemp red paint
(and you wonder why it takes me 15 hours to do the clutch)....

Well it seems that the tranny was leaking past the seal on the snout - and
of course I didnt have a spare seal. I did have a snout from the other tranny,
and that seal was probably newer than the one that was in this tranny.
So in it went.
I also drained and filled the tranny with dino instead of synth - should leak
less. So far - no leaks...
It may have been over filled last time as well.
Even though the manual sez 3.2qts - I added 3 qts and presumed that the 0.2qts was
still clinging to the tranny case...

Oh yeah - cheap trick - if you need to fill the tranny - dont bother with all
that tubing ge-gaw stuff-
Take out the stick shift and pour it in there!

Oh - and replace the rubber shifter bushing - it makes the tranny feel
like it was new again!

So now I have  Borg Warner OEM type clutch and a "cut" OEM flywheel.
Well - the pedal effort is *soooo* soft. And the cruise control kicks off
on hills (so I guess the 30lb flywheel DOES do something).
On the other hand - as much as the ads denegrate the "spinning weight
gimick" that Centerforce uses - I do believe that it does work. When the
Centerforce was slipping - if I reved to 3500 rpm - it *would grab*. It
only slipped in the 2500-3200 rpm range...

Oh well - OEM was all I could find on a Friday afternoon....

Well - while I had the tranny out - I replaced the fuel filter -
Its loads easier to reach when the tranny is out.
Hint - open the fuel cap before you start. If you dont, then
capillary action will CONTINUE to spill gas on your floor - and
opening the cap at that point wont help..
That tip is not written in RED in my shop manual...

So what *idiot* placed the 22RE fuel filter on the block?

EWong


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Date: Thu, 21 May 1998 10:59:37 -0700
From: Jim Brink 
Subject: Re: 30 lb. flywheel, new clutch.

dphills1@mmm.com wrote:
> 
> Question
> Anyone have any experience with 30 lb. flywheels?
> Good, bad or indifferent? Costs? Downsides?
> Off road benefits, trailer pulling?

I just installed one in my '86 4-cylinder truck. After a quick test trip
this past Sunday, it feels as though the truck is less likely to
bog/stall as the engine RPM decreases when in a 4-Lo, off-throttle
situation.

The flywheels cost about $260. I bought mine from Downey Off-Road
Manufacturing in Santa Fe Springs, CA (562/949-9494). I did notice more
vibration just off idle when the truck is stationary. It is not bad and
it is completley undetectible when the truck is moving. I think if I
were to do it again, I would have the complete clutch assembly
(flywheel, disc, p.plate) balanced before installation.

> 
> How about clutches? Several people have mentioned Downey's
> super clutch, how about Centerforce, also doesn't Toyota
> offer a heavy duty replacement clutch.
> Just seeking some input from the field.

I've run all of the above and I am on the Downey Super Clutch now. I
have only put about 300 miles on the truck with the new clutch so I
haven't come to any conclusions yet. A friend of mine who run a Super
Clutch in his V6 truck really likes it.

The Centerforce went through about 90k miles of abuse and the stock
Toyota clutch only lasted about 50k miles.

I think you will be in good shape if you were to choose from any of the
above clutches. Try to get a good quality clutch kit. I've seen a lot of
cheap clutches bite the dust early (no pun intended).

Jim Brink

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Date: Sat, 05 Dec 1998 22:46:31 -0800
From: Jim Brink 
Subject: Re: Clutch and flywheel.

Roger Brown, P.E. wrote:
> 
> I'm in the market for a new clutch for my 4Runner.  It seems the three top
> choices are the Centerforce (I or II), Downey Super Clutch, and OEM (any 
> brand in particuar).  Any strong likes and dislikes of any of theese from
> the list?
> This is for a stock 22RE and I'm mainly looking for something with long life.
> Also, are the heavier-than-stock flywheels worth the money?  I would think
> they would help the low end torque on the 4 cylinder engine.

Last March I installed a Downey Super Clutch and heavier flywheel in my
3/86 22R truck. My throwout bearing was shot, so I figured that I would
upgrade these components since the transmission was going to be out.

The CF I had about 90k miles on it and disc had a lot of life left on
it, BTW, and exhibited no functional problems whatsoever.

The Super Clutch's take-up is much shorter than the OEM and CF I, i.e.,
the clutch engages much lower on the pedal, at least on my application
it does. Pedal feel is about the same, although I would say the Super
Clutch feels a bit "mushy" in comparison to the others...No biggie.

I do recommend the heavier flywheel. When crawling along in 4-Lo, I can
ride the brake and the engine continues to run down close to 200 RPM
without stalling. Kind of a nice feature. There is some "shake" or
evidence of a slight imbalance with the heavier flywheel that I notice
mainly when the powertrain isn't loaded much, like when I am slowly
backing up my long driveway. During normal driving and wheeling, the
shake is not noticable. Maybe a very slight improvement in low-end power
too.


- -- 

Jim Brink
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Date: Sun, 6 Dec 1998 10:50:50 -0600 (CST)
From: davekimm@webtv.net (david meador)
Subject: Clutch & flywheel

The flywheel is a stepped design which means it is not flat. The surface
that the clutch plate rides on is around .015 higher than the rest of
the flywheel. If you have the flywheel  machined make sure the shop put
the step back in , not all do, and this makes a big difference in the
clamping force of the pressure plate.

Dave Meador
85 & 95 4Runner

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