V8 Swaps
>------------------------------
>
>Date: Fri, 15 Nov 1996 16:11:37 -0500
>From: TRVLR1865@aol.com
>Subject: : FJ-40, modifications, "G. R. Soulier"
>To: TLCAL@tlca.org
>
>n response to your engine problems, I own a '71 FJ 40 since new, over ten
>years ago I tried to drive just a little too far with a busted radiator
>hose.--yup, fried it ... A good friend, parts manager at Toyota of Dallas,
>fixed me up a price list at his cost of the parts needed to decently overhaul
>it ( did'nt need pistons, crank, cam. just mains and rod bearings, rings,
>gaskets, valve job.) even 10 years ago at wholesale it was totally
>outrageous. those old Land Cruiser sixes were fine, fine engines, but when it
>comes time to do major work on them, junk it.
>In my experience the only viable option is the 350 Chev 4-8 conversion. I'm
>no mechanic, but with a little help from mechanic friend and Downey
>conversion kit, I installed it myself, yes it was work and took some thinking
>too. but it was like a factory job, the 350 slips right into the stock tranny
>(with a little spacer provided by Downey), weld or bolt on new motor mounts,
>use stock radiator.
>I removed my hood,fenders, front section, they are easy to unbolt and
>reinstall, for easy access. yes you have to lengthen or shorten both
>driveshafts, I forget which, but a good driveline shop in any city can do
>this easily. If they scratch their heads and act like it is a big job, GO
>ELSEWHERE! It's not a big job, or unusual.
>There are numerous details, Chev clutch, pressure plate, bellhousing, I went
>to a G.M. alternator. But all in all For the last 10 years of driving, it's
>the best thing I ever did. Yes I used an RV cam, from Performance Automotive
>Warehouse catalogue, in my 350 which came out of a ''76 2 wd Blazer. My
>engine came without intake, carb, distributor, water pump (you need water
>pump with long legs), or exhaust manifolds. CAUTION--make sure the engine you
>buy is a 350!
>A very common mistake, 305, 307, old 327 and 283's all look like 350's to
>those of us with little knowledge on Chev engines!!!
>A 4-bolt main engine is preferred. These come out of pickups, Blazers,
>Jimmys, Suburbans. not from a passenger car. Also, Be sure your 350 engine
>came from the factory with a 4 barrel carb, the 4 bbl engine comes with the 4
>barrel heads! this makes a world of difference in how that engine will
>perform, those heads have bigger ports and breath a heck of a lot
>better--faster,stronger. In fact I have a stock 2 barrel Carter carb on my
>engine, which came stock with 4 barrel ( thus has the good heads) , when I
>put my foot in it,it roars like a 4 barrel, with my RV cam this baby scoots
>faster than I need, excellent low end torque, which is what we use and need.
>Do not use a performance cam!! no low end power!! they are just for high rpm
>only. The stock chev cam is just fine also. But if you need to do a lite
>overhaul I suggest a nice Rv cam, It'll run like a striped ass ape. I get
>excellent gas mileage with my engine, I think the combo of 4 barrel heads,
>the RV cam, and the 2 barrel carb with stock intake, and the old fashion
>small block exhaust manifolds, runs excellent, I also went with stock HEI
>chev distributor, instead of the old points etc.. far superior. I use my
>stock 3 speed, stock gears and tires, It will last forever. there is no
>cheaper engine to overhaul, maintain, than a good small block chev. I built
>my Cruiser to be a tuff 4wd up here in the Colorado Rockies, and to be able
>to get to those trails quickly and in style, so therfore it is pretty much
>stock! no hot rod crap here, single turbo exhaust, nice and quiet,not to
>disturb the wildlife. However those dual glasspacks do sound mellow, and let
>the other fellow know your packin more than a six banger!
>In my experience there was no other choice for my cruiser. It did take me
>some time and greasy hands and barked knuckles, to pop that engine in but
>well worth it, how much it cost depends on everything! You can buy 350
>engines everywhere, from Napa, Car Quest, rebuilts, in all stages of
>completeness. or find on your own for acouple hundred bucks, bite the bullet
>and get down and dirty and overhaul yourself( if you're not a mechanic get a
>mechanic friend to help, it aint easy for us first timers!) .I think I had
>under $1500 in my conversion but did my own labor, I had to buy the overhaul
>kit, did not rebore my stock engine just honed the cylinders, popped in new
>bearings, rings, double timing chain, basic valve job with new guides, kept
>the old pistons,(it was a good engine with 100,000 miles on it). you can
>spend a fortune on pretty parts, hi perf, etc. but who needs it! there is a
>bunch of power in that stock engine. If your old Cruiser is in good shape it
>will be well worth it.
> Hope I helped, e-mail me if you need more of the details, there are many
>that are not addressed on the instructions that come with the conversion kit,
>it would have made my conversion easier if I could have talked to someone who
>had been thru it before. The folks at Man-a-fre, and Downey were very general
>and not too specific, that part was frustrating. There are people out there
>that jimmy-rig these conversions, don't listen to them, with a Downey kit and
>some patience and thought, it will look and perform better than factory. Good
>luck , it is worth it.
>John Nichols, Walden, Co., up in the Colorado outback.
>
>------------------------------
>
Peaceaudi, from Niall.
-----------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 96 13:06:51 EST
From: "Eric Miller"
Subject: 5 sp on 60/62 stuff
To: tlcal@tlca.org
John C. Day wrote:
>I was over at BTB a couple of weeks ago and met Brian. After
>wandering around trying not to drool on his projects, I asked what a
>350 + tranny conversion would cost in my '85 FJ60 (figuring at
>210,000 miles, I've only got another 200,000 left in it :-).
>The answer was $15,000. Ouch. It helped make the OME suspension
>look like a bargain, though...
I am in the middle of installing a 350 in my '84 FJ60. I'm using a
Ranger Torque Converter from AA for an overdrive and spacing problems,
and I am going to use a SM465 tranny. I'm sticking with the stock
transfer case. I had the engine built locally with a guy I know and
trust. It's a little better than stock. The overdrive and conversion
parts I purchased from AA (plus shipping from the west coast to MN).
The tranny I bought locally.
The total bill with engine, overdrive, tranny, possible radiator work,
and complete exhaust will be $5.000-7.000 (sorry I can't be more
exact, I don't have the receipts in front of me). $15.000 seems like
a pretty steep price. If you are considering a different tranny, you
might tack on another 1-2.000, but that still leaves alot in labor.
On another note, we have a land use issue developing here in
Minnesota. I won't go into all the details here but if anyone reading
this would like more info on an Off Highway Vehicle park in Minnesota,
email me.
ERic Miller
'63/'65 FJ40, '84 FJ60 TLCA 4160
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Nov 1996 12:42:42 -0700
From: Drew Eckhardt
Subject: Engine Swap?
To: Yotacruzer@aol.com
Yotacruzer@aol.com writes:
>I have a 75 fj40 w/ stock everything and I was wanting to ask a few
>questions that most of you could probably answer.
>1. What are the advantages of swaping out my stock 4 speed 6 cylinder with a
>Chevy v-8?
You loose a few hundred pounds, acceleration becomes rather brisk,
the question becomes "How fast do you want to go?" rather than "How
fast can you go?" (I tried to see what my Chevota's top speed is, but
came to my senses at arround 110MPH.)
>2. Where do you find the v-8 to put in there?
The classifieds, a bone yard, your local parts store, whatever.
>and can you get one new?
GM sells brand new motors in a crate; although if you live some where
like the People's Republic of California, you might be better off with
a rebuild (in that state, you're required to meet the emissions
requirements for the newer of the engine and chasis).
>And
>would a new Chevy v-8 give me better than my vampire 11.5 miles per gallon?
I get 15-16 MPG on the highway with my Chevota (4.11 gears, 31"
tires); but have gotten it down to 2 arround town.
>3. What is the ball park figure for swaping out the engine?
That depends on what parts you have, what engine and transmission
combination you'll be using, how handy you are at fabricating engine
and tranny mounts, etc. Some where between a few hundred (you get a
wrecked GM 4x4 for $100 and use its V8, transmission, and transfer
case; fabricate your own mounts; use exhaust manifolds and fabricate
your own exhaust; and only farm out the drive shafts) and some
multiple of $10000 (race motors aren't cheap).
>4. And what can I do with the v-6 once its out.
If your truck is "all stock" as you indicated, it's an Inline 6, not a
V6.
Sell it if you can, or buy the "we'll take anything you put on the
curb" garbage collection plan and trash it.
>5. Would the v-8 give me good top end speed. My cruiser only goes about 55
>mph with out stressing it out?
Assuming you're not too insane, the V8 will let you go as fast as you
dare to.
- --
Home Page
By using the following line in your .sig, you violate 18 USC 1462, committing
a class D felony, good for up to 5 years in prison and a $250,000 fine:
Planned Parenthood provides information on abortions.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 15 Dec 1996 09:30:04 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Chevy 283
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
>Hi, a friend of mine has been wanting to swap the 4 cyl. in his toyota p/u
>for a v6 or v8 for some time now. Just recently he came across a complete
>running 283 w/th350 that is *very* cheap. The owner doesn't know anything
>about the motor/trnas, but is willing to sell it very cheaply because he
>is a friend. I was wondering if this would be a good motor for his truck.
>I'm under the impression that it's a smaller block than a sb350, but have
>not had a chance to comfirm this...is it?
All Chevy small-blocks are the same size, physically. They are all based on
the same bore center, etc. They are good, reliable, power-producing motors,
but I wouldn't go for it for a few reasons. You're buying an unknown motor.
I will go into that below, but it will probably nickel-and-dime you to
death on machine work, exterior parts (brackets, swap kits, radiator,
etc.). You haven't even indicated if it runs. I personally don't think a V8
is an appropriate swap for an off-road vehicle, unless it weighs 6000 lbs.,
but that's just me.
If he's dead-set on a Chevy V8, a better swap would be to spend the extra
coin and go to your Chevy parts counter and order a brand-new "Target
Master 350" long block for $1500. It's brand-new, warranted, and is a good
'tabula rasa' (blank slate) for whatever kind of motor you want it to be.
I've found it's a lot cheaper going this route than to buy a used motor of
unknown origin, only to find that a bill for $1200 in machine work awaits
me!
As a rule of thumb, I NEVER buy 'rebuilt' motors; usually, Joe at the local
Exxon did it with his nose in a 'How to Rebuild Your Small-Block Chevy'
book, or, worse yet, without one. The Target motor is an easy 250 hp, 300
lb-ft motor with bolt-on manifolds, carb, ignition, and exhaust, and has a
KNOWN history, unlike some Chev motor you might find at the swap meet.
Chevy has had Mouse motors in factory displacements of 255, 283, 302, 305,
307, 327, 350, and 400 cubes. All of these had a variety of heads, cranks,
pistons, cams, intake and exhaust manifolds, etc. Horsepower ratings range
from 145 to over 300. Most of the ones that are left are the crappy 307 and
the later (crappier) 305. These aren't worth the sweat off your...knuckles.
They've made this motor for over 40 years! (They just discontinued it for
the 1997 model year.) When you see a motor in a wrecking yard, or even in
an original vehicle, it could be any number of iterations of this motor.
This applies to big AND small blocks. Usually, General Motors offers no
less than four and usually around six different motors per vehicle as
options. IF you know that the motor matches the vehicle, THEN see if the
original sticker showing the motor code is in place (it's under the seat in
the 60's, in the glove box in the 70's and 80's). Check the motor code
against one of the books on the market. ONLY THEN can you make an informed
decision about the motor, and if it is a good choice for you. And you STILL
haven't determined its condition!
IMHO, save yourself the blood, sweat, and tears, and go for a new motor
that is a known quantity. Spending your long green on a hunk of iron you
know nothing about is false economy. You will thank yourself in the long
run.
>I think they were last made in the late sixties (68?)..how hard is it to
>get parts for them? What parts (if any) from a modern sb350 are
>compatible with this motor (ex: heads, intake manifolds, headers,
>dist/hei, et al)?
If you're still reading: All parts are interchangeable, with a few caveats:
Heads: a small displacement motor does not need 2.02" valve heads. A
well-flowed 1.94" will keep intake velocity up. Intake Manifolds: for an
off-road vehicle, should be of the "torquer" dual-plane variety, not the
hot-rod open plenum type. You want drivability, not 11-second quarter-mile
times. Headers: small-diameter tri-y's for for an off-road vehicle.
Ignition: I prefer factory HEI's for simplicity and reliability. All will
bolt up.
>For instance, if we were to buy a swap kit for a sb350, would everything
>(motor mounts, ps pump bracket, ect.) fit this motor?
Not necessarily. Later heads and blocks have more mounting holes for
different brackets. Very early ones are fairly smooth. But for your 283,
everything should go.
>FWIW, the car that it's in does not have ps and the alternator bracket
>appears to be cheaply 'jury-rigged'. How hard will it be to adapt current
>gm alts. and power steering pumps to this motor?
You'd have to talk to Downey, Northwest, Advance Adapters, et. al., about
this. AFAIK, you should be fine.
>Lastly, does anyone know what sort of power this motor should make?
Depending on its condition, I would estimate from none to maybe 180 hp,
none to 200 pounds of torque.
We still haven't talked about the trans. Or smog legality. Or your
fabrication skills. Or the suspension work you'll have to do. Or the
radiator. I hope you know what you're getting yourselves into!
>Thank you for your time. We need to decide if we are going to use this
>motor soon, so that we can order the swap parts, and have it installed
>before I return to school here in Idaho.
If you do it, be prepared to explain to your parents why you'll be working
on your buddy's truck on Christmas Day.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Dec 1996 09:14:28 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Chevy 283
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrect wrote:
>I've got another question. My friend has his heart set on tearing this
>block completely apart, and doing a complete buildup, ie overbore, etc.
>I think that he shouldn't waste his time/money building up such a small
>(and old!) v8. If he wants to upgrade it, I mentioned maybe one of those
>Edelbrock carb/intake kits from Summit, an HEI, and some shorty headers.
>When the block itself gives out, I think he should just invest in one of
>those new factory long blocks that they sell at the dealer. What do you
>guys think?
I think you're on the right track, then. If the motor's a runner, DON'T
tear into it! Go the bolt-on route, maybe some shiny stuff, a fresh coat of
paint on the motor, and LEAVE IT. You're gonna spend enough time getting
that thing installed, that you don't need to waste time and money tearing
into the motor. I'd be surprised if the truck will last as long as the
motor, since it's in Juneau.
>It's in Juneau, Alaska, so it's legal. The truck has a 4" susp, and 3" body,
>plus 4.10's and 36's, so it's set up well for a v8 and a 3spd auto.
This is good. I forgot to tell you that you need a 3" body lift to get a
Chevy V8 into a Toy. You'll want to replace the front springs, though.
Don't go any shorter on the gears. 4.10's will be ideal with the 36's. But
being in Juneau (for those of you who don't know, a fairly small and very
isolated town in Alaska, even though it is the state capital), you will be
doing a lot of outsourced work. Start checking NOW to see if local shops
can handle the work, or if you'll have to send stuff to the Lower 48. Also,
if you're going to do it, start buying the parts, swap kit, etc., NOW!
Waiting for a back-ordered part will kill your window of opportunity.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: 26 Dec 1996 10:03:39 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Random Questions concerning
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:52 AM
OFFICE MEMO Random Questions concerning myM-I Date: 12/26/96
bwiencek@kcnet.com wrote:
snip
>Basically in speaking to Marlin himself, he shot down my origional idea of
going
>for a 4.70 transfer case in addition to the stock transfer case - he said
that
>would be way over-geared! He said I probably would be happy with the single
>transfer case for my current differental gearing unless I do serious wheeling
- -
>then MABYE I should go for a dual stock 'case setup. He recommended a 4.56
or
>so gear with the 8 & a dual case unit... He explained it as such - the 700
will
>have a 3.0:1 1st gear, the x-fer is 2.27, the diff is 5.29, and the
>multiplication factor for an automatic is 1.8 - so that's 65:1 crawl ratio -
>lower than my last setup. with the dual transfer case I'd have 147:1 ! What
is
>everyone else running?
I run a 700R4 behind a 4.3l V6 with 4.88 gears and 33s. The gearing is very
good. I am considering adding a second 2.29 sometime, but am still undecided
(and without the spare cash) at this time. The single 4.7 case would be way
to low for most cases given I could only have 1:1 or 4.7:1 and using an auto
where you have to shift up thru the gears. One 2.29, plus a 4.7 would be great
but only needed if I had 4.10 gears AND not so low a first gear.
>I am planning to do Moab for easter again this year, and
>want to do double whammy and pritchett canyon. Any considerations?
There is really nothing you can't do in Moab (and I'm talking doing it
elegantly) that you can't do with the 65:1 you mention above. My
consideration for looking at a dual setup is for hard core boulder
crawling where I would like to move VERY slowly, something you
really don't find in Moab.
>should I
>save my pennies or 'go for it' - I can always do the radiator & headers
later,
>but I really want to make 1 decision on the driveshaft length...
Depends on your priorities..........
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Jan 97 15:57:33 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Re: V8 page
To: Barney McNamara
Barney,
Yep, it's quite a job... a little bigger (longer / slower) than I
thought origionally. Mostly the painting has taken a lot of time. I just want
to do the thing right the first time, and enjoy the truck for a few years to
come - of course that's what I said when I built my 22R (20R head), and I only
had it for about 8 months... I really miss that engine, and will probably build
another one in the future. I guess I haven't put my wife's comments about the
whole project out there... she's been real supportive, since I don't have a car
payment, and she has a 'new' car, she doesn't mind me putting a little $$ in to
the truck. The only thing she said was after about 6 weeks of taking up all
three garage bays, was she wanted to get her car in the garage before it gets
too cold out.
I hope to take a lot more pictures of the actual process of installing
the engine, since that's what I origionally looked on the net for.. A detailed
description of what it takes to install a V-8 into the truck. I talk to people
who 'know somone' who did it, but most can't remember if they used a body lift
or not, or even what kind of clearance problems they had (if any), I talkesd to
the manufacturers, and they all recommend a body lift, but none requires it, but
they can't say what EXAACTLY I'lll have to do, so after a lot of talking, and
not a lot of definate answers, I decided to do the swap anyways, and document it
real good for others.
If all goes well, and the thing runs good, I'm thinking of entering four
wheeler magazine's tough truck competition next year, and pump the net for votes
to give me a better chance of being selected...
- Brian
On Fri, 10 Jan 1997, Barney McNamara wrote:
>Brian,
>Looks like you've taken on quite a job. Nice garage, too. I'd love to
>have the space and money to do that to a truck. That guy on the list
>with the frozen V-6 in the 88 body is really tempting me to get
>another toy. But with 1 kid in college now, and another a junior in
>high school, all my spare cash is tied up for the next 6 years.
>
>Keep up the status, dreamers like me appreciate seeing the details.
>
>Barney
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 97 09:22:20 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Semi-off topic... Auto Trans rebuild.?'s
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Hello,
I say this is sort-of off-topic, since it pertains to my Toyota V-8
swap, but the transmission in question is a GM TH-700R4.
My question to the list is - has anyone rebuilt this transmission
themselves? (or other automatics) I need to swap the output shaft to the one
from the advance adapters kit. I've looked at it, and the only way the shaft
comes out is through the front - which means complete disassembly. My problem
is that most shops around here want $500+ to do the rebuild! I can get a
'master overhaul' kit form the local transmission parts wholesaler for $65 -
including all seals, gaskets, o-rings, bushings, bands, clutches, and steels.
If I could find someone to do the work for say $150 (I'd supply the parts) I'd
be thriled, but $500 seems a little steep.
- - Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 09:28:12 -0900
From: " CONRAD"
Subject: Toy4x4 Digest V1 #51
To:
> Date: Sat, 25 Jan 1997 12:31:05 -0500
> From: "Jeremy W. Hartlaub"
>
> I'm looking to do an engine swap in my '89 pickup. Does anybody have
experience with any of the swaps I mentioned, or any others? What's
involved? Approximate cost? the better. Any suggestions are appreciated.
> Jeremy
I have seen several 350 swaps in the past. Don't have any personal
experience, but I will pass on what all those guys found out. A Toy P/U or
4-Runner with a 350 is Awesome! Makes a very nice show/around town
vehicle. Also great for MILD 4-wheeling. If you plan on doing any serious
wheeling with it you are going to start breaking driveline components.
Every successful 350 conversion I have seen had Land Cruiser or big Dana
axles in it. None of them started that way, but they all ended up that
way. The original axles and u-joints are good, but not good enough to
stand up to the abuse a 350 can put out. Don't be scared off. The axle
conversion isn't hard, just big $$$.
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851
conrad@mosquitonet.com
84 FJ-60, leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Oct 1996 03:23:14 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: 454 chev into LC
To: tlcal@tlca.org
>>>I just had the good fortune to stumble across a 1969 Chevy 2 wheel
>>>drive pickup with a 454-4v under the hood. The odometer reads 80,000 miles,
>>>>>>and from what I know ...
Mark--
I believe '69 was the first year for the 454 chev (previously 427 and 396
hi-po motors). A good motor, lotsa torque, 4-bolt mains, but hard on gas
and I would probably stay away from it unless yr putting it into a 45, 55,
60, or 80 that you intend to tow and haul a LOT of stuff with. It's a lotta
motor, size- and weight- wise, and would NOT be a good swap for a 40 that
you wheeled. I had one in a 1-ton chev 4x4 p/u, and it would dig ruts
halfway to China if you gassed it.
If you go with the rat, are you prepared to run either a Turbo 400
automatic, or a 1 ton GMC manual trans? Bigger brakes? MUCH bigger
radiator? Custom springs? Change yr final drive to 2.73? Lotsa cutting and
fabbing?
A better swap would be to spend the extra coin and go to yr Chevy parts
counter and order a brand-new "Target Master 350" long block for $1500.
It's brand-new, warranted, and is a good 'tabula rasa' (blank slate) for
whatever kind of motor you want it to be. I've found it's a lot cheaper
going this route than to buy a used motor of unknown origin, only to find
that a bill for $1200 in machine work awaits me!
As a rule of thumb, I NEVER buy 'rebuilt' motors; usually, Joe at the local
Exxon did it with his nose in a 'how to rebuild yr small-block chevy' book.
The Target motor is an easy 250 hp, 300 lb-ft motor with bolt-on manifolds,
carb, ignition, and headers, and has a KNOWN history, unlike some Chev
motor you might find at the swap meet.
Chevy has had Mouse motors in factory displacements of 255, 283, 302, 305,
307, 327, 350, and 400 cubes. All of these had a variety of heads, cranks,
pistons, cams, intake and exhaust manifolds, etc. Horsepower ratings range
|from 145 to over 300. Most of the ones that are left are the crappy 307 and
the later (crappier) 305. These aren't worth the sweat off yr...knuckles.
They've made this motor for over 40 years! When you see a motor in a
wrecking yard, or even in an original vehicle, it could be any number of
iterations of this motor. This applies to big AND small blocks. Usually,
the General offers no less than four and usually around six different
motors per vehicle as options. IF you know that the motor matches the
vehicle, THEN see if the original sticker showing the motor code is in
place (it's under the seat in the 60's, in the glove box in the 70's and
80's). Check the motor code against one of the books on the market. ONLY
THEN can you make an informed decision about the motor, and if it is a good
choice for you. And you STILL haven't determined its condition!
IMHO, save yrself the blood, sweat, and tears, and go for a new motor that
is a known quantity. Spending your long green on a hunk of iron you know
nothing about is false economy. You will thank yourself in the long run.
If the siren song of MASSIVE V-8 torque is still calling yr name, I'd look
for a GMC 360 motor out of a commercial truck (2 1/2 ton+). It's roughly
the same size and weight as a small-block, but has the cojones to motorvate
up to a 28,000 lb. vehicle from a standing stop quite easily. Monstrous
water jackets and a low compression ratio virtually guarantee this
understressed rodent for 350,000 miles. It is a gas motor, so none of the
wannabe dieselheads on this list would find it of any use. It's main
drawback, however, is its 2500-3000 rpm redline, virtually ensuring a
taller ring & pinion swap.
It all comes down to what you want from life, I guess...
Good luck.
L8R,
Nick
- --------------------------------------------------------------------
Although I have not personally seen a 454 conversion, I have seen
several FJ-40 big-block conversions using the GM 427 engine. The
standard small-block, GM-TLC conversion motor mounts and associated
parts supplied by either Advanced Adapters or Downey will work for a
big-block conversion, or they can provide the necessary alternative
parts. AFIK, the fundamental mechanical problem associated with a GM
big-block conversion is a competition for space in the TLC engine
compartment and frame. Specifically, the driver's side exhaust
manifold/headers of the GM big-block engine interfere with both stock
and Saginaw power-steering components. I can't imagine putting this
engine in a TLC without power steering, and I believe that a body lift
of at least 2" is required . The fit-problem involving the PS primary
shaft and the headers can be solved with a custom-made exhaust system.
Depending on the amount of body lift and the angle of the PS drive
shaft, the PS shaft will have to pass between two of the exhaust
headers -- i.e., one of the exhaust pipes will have to include an
upward bend/loop to allow the steering shaft to pass beneath it while
passing above the pipes emanating from the other three exhaust ports.
The best person I know of to obtain more information about this
conversion is Ross Stewart, owner of Land Cruiser Advanced Handling.
Ross has a truly awesome FJ-40 equipped with a big-block (427) Chevy
engine, Ranger 2-speed torque converter, 4-speed tranny, etc., etc,...
His address is 1029 24th SE Albany, OR 97321 and his phone number is
(541) 926-8122. He can provide you with the parts necessary to
complete this conversion, if it is truly what you want to do.
*************************
Jack Rice
Eugene, Oregon
TLCA #4751
1978 FJ-40
jrice@oregon.uoregon.edu
*************************
------------------------------
Date: 13 Mar 1997 09:08:41 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: What to look for in Toy/Bui
To: "Eric Johnson" , "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:47 AM
OFFICE MEMO What to look for in Toy/Buick truck Date: 3/13/97
Eric Johnson wrote:
>A guy near me has a 79 toy with a buick 231 and an AT for sale. He says it
>only has 58000 original miles, and is asking $3500. It looks like its got a
>Smitty double/double roll bar, and is a shortbed. Its been on the market
>several weeks, so I can probably beat him up on the price a bit.
>Is there anything I should be particularly careful to check out?
I would look to see how sanitary the job was done. You don't want
to buy a conversion that will always leave you worried when out on
the trail. You want it to be reliable.
Two things I would look for specifically:
(1) Check to make sure the owner provided adequate cooling for the
Buick V6. These engines run a bit on the warm side and many people
that do conversions start cutting corners by the time the radiator
goes in. Good radiators aren't cheap, so keep this in mind.
(2) Check for cracks behind the front spring forward mount. A lot
of V6 conversions and/or trucks that are wheeled hard core start
to develope a crack in this area.
Hope this helps.......good luck.
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 07 Apr 97 15:33:44 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: V-8 installation first impressions...
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Well, as most of you know, I have been re-working (rebuilding? restoring?) the setup in
my '84 toyota Xtra-Cab PU, and included in this madness was the installation of a chevy
5.0 HO engine with a 700R4 trans. This saturday, I finally got to drive it... First
stop was to get the exhaust installed - had to take it easy with open manifolds it was
a little LOUD! Once the exhaust was on, I had a chance to drive it around a little,
and noticed a couple of things that needed attention right away (timing too far
advanced, TV cable to trans set too loose, choke not opening) Well after sorting it
out, Another drive, and WOW! the thing's got real power... I could barely hold it back
from an idle (950 rpm in gear... later turned it down to approx. 700rpm - much better)
The trans shifted so firm that if I probably floored it I think it would spin the
tires shifting to second! The overall impression was that the trouble to install the
beast was well worth it.. I even got a couple of strange looks on the highway - I think
'cuz of the low rumble... (35's & 5" lift doesn't hurt too)
Well, as most of you with soft spring packs know, I have encountered terrible
spring wrap under acceleration, and will need to do something about that real soon!
(any suggestions are welcome...)
If anyone is wanting to know if you can install a V-8 without a body lift, well
you can, but I can attest it would be a whiole lot easier with a body lift. I'll be
working on taking some pictures & posting them on the web real soon...
Once I get the little problems sorted out, I should have a better idea of what it will
do.
- - Just had to tell someone,
Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 10 Apr 1997 13:46:19 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: GM 4.3 swap- needen das lif
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 1:28 PM
OFFICE MEMO GM 4.3 swap: needen das liften? Date: 4/10/97
PSHENG@SCUACC.SCU.EDU wrote:
>I was wondering, is it physically possible to swap a GM 4.3 V6 into
>a solid axle toy (85 'runner in my case) WITHOUT a body or suspension
>lift? I want mo' HP, but I don't ever want to lift my truck (I'm
>scared of heights)
You could do it, but your upward suspension travel would be VERY
limited due to the close proximity of the axle to oil pan.
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 97 10:50:44 CST
From: "Brian Gallus"
Subject: Stock Auto strength
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Hi all,
Just received a strange call from one of our local 4x4 shops here in
MN. Apparently they have a customer with a 1990 Runner who is
contemplating a small block engine swap but wants to put it in front
of the stock Toyota automatic tranny. They asked me if I know anyone
who has done that or if the tranny will even hold up....
The information I have is that the tranny is in need of a rebuild
anyway, and the customer is looking to "beef it up" a bit to handle
the torque of the 350. I'm assuming that a 700R4 would be a MUCH
better idea, but don't know if the stock transfer case is the same as
the behind the earlier automatics or not. I haven't seen any adapters
for a 700R4 to early chain drive t-case, nor do I know if it will even
handle more power. Also, I don't know if the current engine is a 22r
or 3.0, though my guess is it's the v6.
So, not knowing the answer, I have turned to my best resource... Has
anyone done this? Recommendations?
Jay, I'm sure you could give me, and the customer, a million reasons
to go with the 700r4, but even a small list would suffice!
Thanks,
Brian Gallus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 09:24:08 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Stock Auto strength
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Brian Gallus wrote:
> Just received a strange call from one of our local 4x4 shops here in
> MN. Apparently they have a customer with a 1990 Runner who is
> contemplating a small block engine swap but wants to put it in front
> of the stock Toyota automatic tranny. They asked me if I know
anyone
> who has done that or if the tranny will even hold up....
My understanding is that Advance used to make a bellhousing for this swap;
but it required a jeep torque converter, and the swaps really just didn't
generally work right for one reason or another. I don't think strength was
a reason. I believe this same tranny was used in some Jeep Cherokees (hence
the jeep torque converter). Downey used to catalog the part, but they don't
any more. I'd give Advance a call.
> The information I have is that the tranny is in need of a rebuild
> anyway, and the customer is looking to "beef it up" a bit to handle
> the torque of the 350. I'm assuming that a 700R4 would be a MUCH
> better idea, but don't know if the stock transfer case is the same
as
> the behind the earlier automatics or not. I haven't seen any
adapters
> for a 700R4 to early chain drive t-case, nor do I know if it will
even
> handle more power. Also, I don't know if the current engine is a
22r
> or 3.0, though my guess is it's the v6.
My guess is you'll need to get a transfer case from a junkyard. The tranny
bolted up to the A340H is a hydraulic unit, and actually takes tranny fluid
instead of gear oil. If it were me, I'd get a T-case from Marlin while
you're at it... :)
> Jay, I'm sure you could give me, and the customer, a million reasons
> to go with the 700r4, but even a small list would suffice!
while I love my A340H, here's a couple good reasons not to use it in a
smallblock conversion:
1) The parts might not be available to adapt the 340H to a smallblock.
2) You can probably buy a 700R4 for what a A340H rebuild would cost.
3) There's no doubt whatsoever that a 700R4 can handle the torque of a 350
( i presume its a 350...? 383 maybe? THAT would be cool)
4) Swapping in a non-auto T-case makes a marlin crawler or at least a
gearset a possibility.
5) Every tranny shop on the planet should know how to build and service a
700R4.
I don't know the 700R4 gear ratios off hand, but the A340H ratios (and
those of all toyota trannies I know of) can be had at
http://www.off-road.com/4runner
then click on the "Toyota Engines and Trannies" link. I suspect the 700R4
goes both lower and higher than the A340.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 14 May 1997 17:38:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: V-8 swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I was thinking the same thing about my 81 Toy. I was going to do the engine
> swap, then I saw the priceas for all the adapter stuff. Forget it! I have
> decided it will be much easier to put the Toy body on a cut down Chevy frame
> and running gear. Granted I have not looked into this too much, but I seems
> like the route I will be taking. Some Toy "purists" will hate this, but I
We were very, very seriously considering it...but it's a lot of cash,
and a lot of work. So instead, were doing the 20r head conversion, and
putting in 5.29's. Maybe a cam too. If it's still slow, then were out
a couple hundred on the head, and I can use the 5.29's in my truck (once
I can afford them..), so were going to keep it 'stock' a bit longer.
Good luck on what you do. Most people that have gotten through the
install, and past the costs are very happy with them. I've yet to talk
to someone who thought it was sorry they did it--though a few people
wish they'd gone v6 instead of v8 for cooling reason. Actually a few
have said that if they had it to do over, they would have sold the
toyota, and bought a fullsize. Really, a late '70's/early '80's chevy
or ford is real affordable, and a good truck. Just too big for my
tastes...but you might want to consider that too, before you spend
another 3000-5000 on you Toyota.
Hope this helps,
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 25 Jul 1997 16:51:19 -0400
From: Philippe Maier
Subject: 22R exhaust/Walker DynoMax -Reply
To: Carfindr@aol.com, Toy4x4@tlca.org
>>I'm installing an original 350 horse 350cid Chevy with a TH700R4 trans.
>>the engine is pretty much done, just waiting for a decision on whether
>>carb or fuel inj. still looking for a good trans. builder to build the
>>trans. open to suggestions on adapters.
>>Seems most everyone is using Advance Adapters but as I understand from
>>their >>literature you must relocate the transfer case. Any help or
>>suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who have
>>already helped.
I used the Advanced Adapters transfer case adapter. It's well designed
but I found that the four bolts they supplied to attach the adapter to
the 700R4 were too smal and stripped the aluminum threads in the tranny.
I went to the local hardware store and purchased some that were slightly
larger, drilled, tapped, and lock tited them and they seem to be holding
up fine.
The transfer case is 4" back. To support it, I used Downey's plate that
they offered. Their plate bolts on and works fine but I would probably
go with welding a support in place instead. I think NWOR has one that
you can weld in. Not sure what AA has. GM trannies have the tranny
support normally. I don't use it. I rely on the tfr case to support
the tranny. Then again, it's been a while since I jumped my 4Runner
6' off the ground (been there, done that,..., fixed the bump stops..).
Don't know exactly how much stress the 4 bolts can withstand. There
holding up so far though. If you have IFS, not sure about the solid axle
machines, note this point (I'm still working on a solution). The GM
trannies normally have the front drive shaft on the driver's side with
the oil pan offset to the pgr side. The Toyota drive shaft is on the pgr
side. Put it this way, I'm not sure how to get the shaft in there. Maybe
someone has a solution to this because I know it's been done. Maybe down
south, those folks have better drive train shops than I do in the Greater
White North (Ontario, Canada). But my guys think that if they can make be
a shaft that would fit, they should get a promotion and an extra weeks
holidays. The clearance is real tite ! Did your motor and tranny come
out of a car or truck ? If it came out of a car, you will HAVE to get the
output shaft of the tranny changed (not sure about the truck one, but
likely the same applies due to # of splines and length ?) I did this
myself....more than a PITA (as they say).... ended up rebuilding the
tranny myself....then spent $1200 Canadian to have a shop fix what
eventually broke. Mental note, get a pro to do this unless you are one
and can properly check clearances. That's it for the tranny and tfr case.
The shift lever for the tfr case ends up on my center console (I have a
4Runner). If you have a truck, it shouldn't be a problem. Just have to
cut out some sheet metal and adapt the original body seals and plates to
fit the new hole. Myself, I'm planning to design and build a solid oak
center console to go from under the dash all the way back to cover the
rear heater. Shfter and all accessory buttons will be mounted into the
new console. Should be some work involved there, me thinks.
For the tranny shifter, I used the B&M MegaShifter. Love it ! Works
great, looks great. It can be used with a 3 or 4 speed GM tranny.
For the front motor mounts, I used the AA ones. The ones that Downey
sells are actually AA made. Don't like them though. I used them with
Downey's modified V8 oil pan, and could not fit the IFS diff underneath
it all (it was supposed to fit; big hassle with downey to get the right
one, long story, 3 oil pans later). I now use NWOR's modified oil pan
(much better). I'm also making new engine mounts this weekend to raise
the motor 1.5"-2" higher. If I ordered the NWOR engine mounts instead
of the AA mounts, I probably wouldn't have had to do this. But I figured
$17 Canadian for materials is better than $150 or so that it costs to buy
them. The lesson here is, if you have IFS and you want to keep the
front diff in the stock location (for extended travel later on; like what
I want) than I found that Downey and AA don't quite have it right but
NWOR seems to.
For cooling, I use the original Toyota 3 core rad with 2 flexalite (sp)
10" electric pusher fans mounted in front of the rad on a 1/8" aluminum
sheet that I fabricated. Works great ! Engine never even gets close to
overheating. Really rock solid.
One thing to note about V8s as well. They fit real nice in the engine
compartment if and only if you convert all the engine accessories and
brackets to the 60's style short water pump setup. You'll never get it
to fit if you don't. With my short water pump setup and the transfer
case back 4", I get about 1/2" clearance between the pump and the rad.
Tried an engine mounted fan for about a day and a half until the fan
flexed and chewed up my rad. Recores are not cheap !
The standard GM manifolds will not work on your truck or 4Runner because
(at least on mine) the driver side manifold dumps right on the engine mount.
Absolutely no space to attach exhaust pipe. I opted to use NWOR's NEW
chrome plated V8 headers. AWESOME ! They look alot like the HEDMAN (sp)
headers style and dump at the bottom rear of the motor. I run a custom
y-piped 2.5", free flow, DynoMax Turbo combo. Works and sounds great.
If you are considering EFI, there are lots of advantages but it does take
some work figuring out how to mate the GM wiring into the Toyota harness.
It would probably be easier if your vehicle originally had EFI. Then again
maybe not (I know, this doesn't help). But, considering the work involved
in figuring out the wiring, it wasn't so bad. What can really set you back
with EFI is if you don't have all the sensors that you need. They can be
REAL expensive ! I'm not kiddin. Buy the way, if you decide to go with
the EFI, save yourself huge problems and get both the proper GM and Toyota
wiring diagrams, otherwise, half way through you will end up getting them
and wishing you had them earlier.
I'm out of breath now...........I think that about covers the major points.
If you need help / advice, I'd be glad to provide you with any insight or
advice you may need. In closing, I love my 305 ! It turns an already
beautiful vehicle into an amazing and almost untouchable one (as many an
unexpected chalanger has found out !).
Later,
Phil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 01:26:53 -0600
From: daves8@juno.com (DAVE SCHOENBERG)
Subject: 22R exhaust/Walker DynoMax
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:04:24 -0400 (EDT) Carfindr@aol.com writes:
>I'm installing an original 350 horse 350cid Chevy with a TH700R4
>trans. the engine is pretty much done, just waiting for a decision
>on whether carb or fuel inj. still looking for a good trans. builder
>to build the trans. open to suggestions on adapters.
>Seems most everyone is using Advance Adapters but as I understand from
>their literature you must relocate the transfer case. Any help or
>suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who have
>already helped.
>Mike Magree
Mike--
Don't know what year truck you're using, but in my '81 ('86 EFI engine,
trans, transfer) conversion, the relocation of the transfer case was very
easy. Just hacksawed it, moved the center section back about 4 inches
and tacked it back together. Then removed the crossmember, welded in
some gussets and a few more beads. Had to shorten the rear driveshaft
but the front was still long enough to work.
I'd never be worried about moving the xfer case. Mine has been together
for five years or so now with absolutely no trouble.
Also, mount the engine as far back as possible so you can get a good fan
in front of it.
Dave Schoenberg, Arvada CO (in phone book)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Jul 1997 16:29:54 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: V8 Swap/700R4 Trans
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:46 PM
OFFICE MEMO V8 Swap/700R4 Trans Date: 7/25/97
Carfindr@aol.com wrote:
>Seems most everyone is using Advance Adapters but as I understand from their
>literature you must relocate the transfer case. Any help or suggestions
>would be greatly appreciated. Thanks to all who have already helped.
I like the Advanced Adapters parts. A few notes on the V8/700R4 swap.
You will most likely need to do some firewall/tunnel modifications,
depending where exactly you mount your engine. Philipe has already
described the problems with clearances on the front of the engine
and also the exhaust manifold issues.
With the 700R4 you will need to relocate the TC back a few inches,
again depending on how you mount the engine. You will also need to
have a new small diameter front driveshaft built to clear the trans
pan (live axle - definitely, IFS - most probably).
Also, consider how you will run the tranny cooler lines off the
side of the tranny as clearances get quite.
Hope this helps........
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 97 10:02:11 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: 22R exhaust/Walker DynoMax (v-8 stuff)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org, toy4x4-dlist@unix.off-road.com
>Seems most everyone is using Advance Adapters but as I understand from their
>literature you must relocate the transfer case.
<>
Well, according to an inside source at Advance - they manufacture the NWOR
adapter...and looking at the catalog, I can believe it. TCK has an adapter
for the TH-350's, but none for the 700 (they keep saying they'll get to it
real soon) If you want a different brand, I have heard of some people mixing
the TCK body with the Advance output shaft. All kits require the transfer
case mounts are a little furhter back. I fabricated an 1/8" re-enforced
plate for the transfer case. It hangs off the end of the cross-member. I
have the Pics from the advance install manual I can scan of their
installation (they took one of the crossmember out of the truck if I remember
right.)
I guess the answer is that there is 1 kit... 2 suppliers...
- - Brian
P.S. the best price I found was 4WPW mail-order.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 14:06:00 MST7MDT
From: "Alan Anderson"
Subject: Subject: HELP on a 22R? rebuild + motor swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
> I am running 31x11.50's on a stock lift with stock gears. How much would
> it
> cost to put a 350 in.
I have about:
1300.00 in the kit
200.00 in odds and ends
1500.00 in motor
75.00 for 2" body lift
250.00 or so in "trading stock" for OME springs they seem to carry
the weight better
200.00 for rancho 9000's, set on 4 they are great on the road w/out
the sway bar, they help keep her on the road.
and god knows how many hours :-)
>You'd have to talk to someine like Advanced Adapters in Paso Robles,
>CA
>or Downey, Northwest, and many other companies that sell adapters.
>A LOT CHEAPER THAN PUTTING IN A TOYOTA ENGINE THOUGH.
>That sounds like it would'nt fit?
it fits! barely but it fits!
>It's tight but there are people on the list with Chevota's.
gotta love that v-8 roar...
> Gotta
>cut
>the fenders and stuff.
only thing I cut was the radiator core support to get more foward
room for a big dodge 4 core radiator, out of a dodge p'up w/ a 440
and a towing package, stays way cool now...
>But I think I'd
> rather
> drop in a 302 out of a mustang, I've heard they now have a kit so you
> can put in a Ford.
why have F**D when you can have the best....?
>They have "kits" for just about any engine, once again I'd say call
>AA
>in Paso and have them send you a catalog.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$
$ Alan Anderson
$
$'85 Toyota SR5 Pickup
$ 305ci. Chevy small block
$ NV4500 trans, Double Marlins
$ w/ultra lows, 5:10's OME lift
$ and ARB's, Chevy tilt coulumn,
$ full cage, bed bar, custom
$ bumpers, 9" bobbed bed, 8000lb.
$ Warn, 33x14.50x15 Boggers, Six
$ States drive lines, custom trail
$ body work, Cobra 19ultra WX, Denon,
$ Boston, McIntosh, and Velodyne, stereo
$ system, Too many hours to talk about...
$ Stock Thermostat, and a case of
$"liquid nails to pass out as trail
$spares for the unfortinate....
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 29 Sep 1997 20:31:54 -0400
From: Scott Hollister
Subject: Subject: HELP on a 22R? rebuild + motor swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 02:06 PM 9/29/97 MST7MDT, you wrote:
>>
>> I am running 31x11.50's on a stock lift with stock gears. How much would
>> it
>> cost to put a 350 in.
>
MY 350 conversion cost about $6000. That's with fuel injection, a built
700R4, etc. It isn't cheap, but well worth it. I did not have to modify
the front at all, but that required the use of a short water pump, and all
custom mounting of the power steering, welder, and alternator. It has a
big 2 core aluminum radiator with trans cooler, and stays cool.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 05 Oct 1997 19:18:52 -0400
From: Scott Hollister
Subject: Solid axle truck V-6/8 swaps
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 11:50 AM 9/5/97, you wrote:
>Hey all you Chevota owners, I'd like to here from those of you
>that were able to do the swap into 79-85 trucks yourselves with
>a minimum of mods to the sheet metal. (i.e. fenders, firewall,
>radiator repositioning etc.)
>
I had to bash the firewall somewhat, but not to awful bad. I used a short
water pump and associated pulleys. This entailed fabricating all new
brackets for alternator, power steering, and welder. Mounts for the new
radiator (big two core aluminum with trans cooler) also had to be
fabricated. The radiator was mounted just a little forward of stock.
So far, I have had no cooling problems, with heat reaching 100+ degrees
this summer. Make sure to leave room for air to travel down the tranny
tunnel. The body lift is needed for this and to clear the trans. Mine was
a built 700R4.
>How long did it take?
>
It took about a week and a half, but some of the time was waiting for
parts, etc.
>How much did you have to invest in swap parts and mods?
>(not including the engine and tranny)
>
I did fuel injection, and used Howells wiring and computer. The total bill
was about 5500 bucks. The engine was 1100 ( New chevy 350, with 5000 miles
on it. Deal of the century.) Trans was 900 bucks. So, I spent about 3500
on goodies (aluminum radiator with trans cooler, drive line, wiring,
computer, alternator, mounts, trans adapter, exhaust, body lift, etc.)
>What type of springs did you end up with (wish you had used)?
>
Still using what I bought the truck with. I think they are generic lift
springs. With the added weight, loosened spring clamps, and a whole lot of
off-roading, they actually work pretty good. Had to lower the bumpstops,
however, for exhaust/pan clearance.
>What if any work did you absolutely have to have done at a shop?
>
Drive line, and exhaust.
>What did I forget to ask? (most important question)
>
>:)
>Don't know, but if you have any more questions, feel free to ask.
>
>Charles Brooks
>cbrooks1@mail.tqci.net
>
>
Scott Hollister
shollist@vt.edu
84 xtracab 33's EZ Locker, Chevy TBI Smallblock,
700R-4, Front Axle Forward 1" , 5.29's, On-board welder,
Custom rear suspension.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Oct 1997 21:48:59 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Buick Swap
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Sheldon Gardner wrote:
>Anyone have buicks under thier hood?
>I have been looking for a Chevy 4.3 for about 3 months and so far no
>luck on the right motor at the right price. I see lots of complete
>buicks for sale most under 2000.00.
If that $2000 is only getting you an engine it's WAY overpriced,
I paid $100 for the V6 that I'm rebuilding, complete with A/C,
p/s, Alt, carb, you name it. But it does need rebuilding, since
I wanted to build the engine, no need to pay big bucks for a good
running engine only to take it apart and put your parts in it.
Use a GM HEI distributor if you're gonna run a carb. Use a GM HEI with ECM
advance if you're gonna run some type of FI. If you're getting a 3.8L SFI
engine you have no choice but to run the coil packs that that
type of engine uses. But even then those engines are prevalent
in junk yards. Not near as the ones with GM HEI ignitions though.
$30 tops for just a HEI distributor ...
Just use the GM pumps, Downey's WAY to proud of their brackets ...
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Oct 1997 22:44:23 -0500
From: Rob Fehl
Subject: Buick V-6 Swap
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Sheldon,
I have an '81 Toy with an '81 Buick V-6 swapped in. I just recently =
completed my second go around at it. I've been running this combination =
for 6 years now and have little to complain about. I bought everything =
Downey had to offer. Motor mounts, radiator, headers, and all the =
brackets(GREAT KIT!!!!). I did not have power steering at that time. =
What I have now is an '81 Buick V-6 that is bored .060 over, edelbrock =
performer manifold, headers, cam and a Holley 390cfm carb. I'm using the =
Buick HEI distributor, GM power steering pump grafted to a Toyota power =
steering box, Toyota alternator with GM brackets. All this is mated to a =
TH350 tranny which is mated the stock transfer case via Downey's adapter =
plates. All of this moves 35" SuperSwamp STL's with stock gears very =
well. My biggest setbacks were, the guy who built my first =
motor(#*$&*#$& me over) and keeping rear gears in one piece. Nuf =
said....
Rob
P.S.
Did I say how much I love this combo!!!!!
LONG LIVE OLD TOYS!!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 12:05:23 -0400
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Buick V-6 Swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Good to know someone out there likes the conversion. I'm probably gunna
use the GM stuff and forget the Downey brackets.
What kind of rpms to you turn at 65-70ish?
3 Reasons I am doing this swap are
1. I want too be able to cruise to events fully loaded and not bog down
on inclines the 22r just can't do 65 70 without getting the rpms up there.
2. Up to about 160,000 on the orginal tranny (83) and getting worried
plus I'm tired of paying twice for Toy Parts vs domestic stuff.
3. I got the TH350 Downey Adapter for free from a friend, that was the
straw that broke my engine conversion back.
I plan on going back to 4.10's in the diffs and running 33's too small,
hope not! Since I'll be using a TH350 I'm considering a dual transfer
setup so I can double up for crawling or run stock low for trailing,
how's your setup work trailing in low range, does the motor rev too
much do you need to go between low and high range? This is my biggest
concern I don't want the tranny constanntly shifting all the time. Many
of my friends set their Chevys in 2 low and leave it there, mostly for
mudding not too sure how that would work for cruising down a trail.
Lastly a few items, whats a good source for aftermarket parts for the
231, and My Napa guy gave me a price of 1050.00 less core for a 231;
comes with 2 year 24000 mile warranty worth it or would it be cheaper
to find a junkyard motor and send it to the machine shop? I don,t want
a super hot motor just something with a little more power and reliable.
Finally hows the motor do on inclines, any problems with flooding
hesitation etc.?
Thanks much Rob
Sheldon
83ToY4x4
sgard@flnet.com
htttp://www.flnet.com/~sgard/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 20:55:30 -0500
From: Rob Fehl
Subject: BUICK V-6 SWAP
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Sheldon-
Around 65-70 my RPM's are around 3000. I'm also running stock 4:10's,
they're a lot easier to come by in junk yards. When trail riding I'm
always in low gear. Our club likes a lot of mud and this combo works
really well. But i do like the idea of the dual transfer case setup
$$$$$ hard to justify at the moment. As far as aftermarket parts, I
order all of my parts through PAW and SuperShops. When it comes to
buying the motor, NAPA will just buy the motor from a machine shop, so
if you have your own favorite shop just do it yourself. The cost is a
wash. The piece of mind is priceless. This I learned the first time
around. LIVE AND LEARN. When it comes to performance my Holley still
needs some fine tuning. My biggest problem occurs when I have a sudden
change in incline i.e. falling off ledges, bouncing on or off logs and
rocks. I'm still working on it.
Rob
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 97 11:10:36 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Buick V-6 Swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>> Around 65-70 my RPM's are around 3000. I'm also running stock 4:10's, =
<> (please everyone else - snip /cut/delete where it's not needed!!)
>Now I'm confused, One more time I have to start this rpm ratio thing. "I
>wish I was more knowledgeable about TH350's I seem to recall you run 35's?
>If I go back to 4.10's and run 33's I would be pushing 3000+ rpms at
>65-70ish? I need to bring that down because I want to take a few trips after
>the swap, heck my motor turns 3000 at 65 now. Am I wrong about this
Well, here's the thing... your 5-speed is an overdrive trans, 5th gear is .83
(as I recall off the top of my head) so what that means is that for every
.83 engine revolutions the driveshaft will turn 1 time.... assuming 0 clutch
slippage then your final drive would be 4.10 x .83 = 3.403:1 - With the
TH350, you're going to a 'non-lockup' style torque converter, and a 1:1 3rd
gear. calculaton final drive ratio, you get 4.10 x 1 = 4.10 - now you have to
factor in the 5-20% torque converter slippage (depending on design & stall),
so lets say 10%... 4.10 + 10% = 4.51 so in effect, you've lowered your final
drive from 3.403:1 to 4.51:1 - an approx. 33% difference... lets say right
now you're running 3000 rpm at 65 (as you said), so 3000/3.403=881rpm at the
axle.. so figuring that out for the th-350, you get n/4.51=881 - solving for
n, = 3973 rpm at the engine... almost a 1000 rpm increase!...
>considering "really intrested" in some sort of Fuel injected setup for the
>Buick motor, know any good aftermarket kits or what about ripping the
>injection out of a new model car?
Well, now you're on the right track... here's my take on the whole deal (only
my $.02 worth anyhow)
1) if you're looking to get it done 'cheap' and have an every day vehicle
skip it. - it always costs more than you think... at least to make it 'more'
reliable for everyday use you'll need a good cooling system and have to do
something about the freeway RPMs (gears? lift/tires?)
2) if you're looking for driveability, your only choice in a GM automatic is
the 700R4 trans - lockup and .7 OD = 2528 rpm for the same example above
3) if you're wanting FI, and take #2, then pick up a later model buick
complete with the FI engine and 700R4 trans - get everything - engine, trans,
computer
Now don't quote me on this, but I was told by guys who like TCK's adapters
better that the TH700 trans could be used with either brands th350 adapter
providing you purchased the TH700 output shaft from Advance adapters. (i
think he said like $75??) - might call advance to double check tho.
I guess you'll have to decide.
Now if you're wanting a FI setup to replace a Holley carb, I have a friend
who is selling his Holley ProJection 4Di - PC programmable 4bbl injection
setup... it's almost 1 yr old, and paid $1500, asking $875 (I think) - He's
going back to a carb and a BBC.
- - Brian
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 12:07:39 EST
From: TNTLGCA@aol.com
Subject: 4 runner goes 5.0 V-8 on2-27-98
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Well I got all the sh*t needed to do the swap...
My current 22RE 86 has been launching the dip stick out of the block at high
rpm's not to mention I go through front main crank seals like its going out
of style.
I figure I must have a stuck valve or blow by on the rings....
My question is has anyone in toyota land ever drove or drove in a old style 4
runner with a V-8 302 ci with a T-5 trans. with 4:10 gears on 35's... What
was the freeway rpms at about 75 mph in 5th...
The guy who is doing the swap is charging me 3k plus keeping old motor... that
has a sh*t load of hop ups already.... I was told once by a old datsun 510
race driver that the more you do to the little 4 cylinders the quiker they
start to fizzle out in the peak power. unless you tear down and rebuild almost
every 2 too 3 months...
Anyone who had dibs on my motor I am sorry but its part of the deal to get the
93 5.0 in... The new motor is a 302 out of GT mustang with 64k miles.. Is this
alot?????? of miles for the expected life of a ford 302..
After it is done I will reply one more post to let you all know how it
works.... The person who is doing the work is in san jose,ca. If anyone
wants to get it done you will be on a waiting list starting this week. And
will have it done about 2 weeks after he takes it. There is 11 people in
line behind me and I'm next in line.. Well I've typed enough of gibberish
later
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 13:03:29 -0500
From: Karl Bellve
Subject: 4 runner goes 5.0 V-8 on2-27-98
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>The new motor is a 302 out of GT mustang with 64k miles.. Is this
>alot?????? of miles for the expected life of a ford 302..
No. These motors are very reliable. I have a friend who has a 87 mustang GT
with 150K+ miles on it and it still turns <14.0 sec quarter mile times and
can reach a speed of 157mph. He has blown a motor before but not in that
car, but in a Ford Thunderbird Turbo Coupe (pinto engine with a turbo).
I was also thinking of the 5.0 V8/T5 combination. I hope you provide pics
when you are done. BTW, does the $3000 include the motor/trans too? Oh, one
more thing about my friends motor. He never did break the engine but he had
to replace the transmission 3 times. He put in a heavy duty T5 at the end
and it has held up. I have no idea what he meant by 'heavy duty' versus the
'medium duty' T5 transmission.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 18 Feb 1998 23:33:21 -0500
From: Clif Moyers
Subject: 4 runner goes 5.0 V-8 on2-27-98
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I fully agree with Karl. I know a fellow with a '88 Lincoln Mk (?) with a
5.0 H.O. that has 175k on his. He runs the crap out of it. I believe he
is on his 2nd or third posi- rear end. 'Doesn't burn a drop of oil in 3k
change interval.
'Sure would be nice if the rest of the Ford was as rugged as the 5.0 motor!
Clif
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 19 Feb 98 17:57:41 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: 4 runner goes 5.0 V-8 on2-27-98
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Karl Bellve wrote:
>No. These motors are very reliable. I have a friend who has a 87 mustang GT
Agreed, I own a 5.0 and they are great engines... They should go 150+k
without a problem as long as normal maintenance is done... also there are a
TON of mods out there for the engine - let me know if you're looking for that
last 10 HP out of a stock engine and I can give you some tricks...
>to replace the transmission 3 times. He put in a heavy duty T5 at the end
>and it has held up. I have no idea what he meant by 'heavy duty' versus the
>'medium duty' T5 transmission.
The '90 on up have a bigger input shaft & bigger bearing, revised front
cluster, etc. They are good for 250? hp and 350 ft/lb? where the older ones
were good for 210/300? Whatever - It makes them a lot more reliable, and
able to stand up to abuse better... as far as RPM's go just get the 5th gear
ratio (I think it's like a .78 or something) and with the Diff ratio, and the
tire dia. you can calculate RPM's.
- - Brian
------------------------------
From: DRM033@aol.com
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Date: Monday, January 26, 1998 10:36 AM
Subject: V6 or V8 in an '80 Toy
I know this has been tossed around many times, but I have a few more
questions. I will be checking the archives and am looking for new input
also.
Which is easier, V6 or V8?
Which is cheaper?
4.3 or Buick?
We are planning on skipping the adapter stuff and just using 700R4 or T350
with 203 (I think) X-fer case. Anything other than making whole new
crossmember? (I know new drive shafts)
Any thoughts on this or any other tips? like I said, we are trying to
avoid the $$$$$$ adapters.
thanks
---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
---------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 16:14:58 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: V6 or V8 in an '80 Toy
To:
Five friends and I have all done the V8 conversion, some using advance
adaptors, others using chevy transfercase. The swap is very easy as long as
you make sure everything lines up and is mounted where you want. Most of us
went with the V8 instead of the V6 because of cost. V8's are very cheap to
buy and fix. While being overkill in the power department. Two of my friends
went the advance adaptor route. Spending huge amounts of money. While making
the initial install easier, both trucks have over heating problems and are
wearing out the transfercase. One went with the bellhousing route and blows
tranny's all the time. The trucks that are all chevy with no advanced
adaptors at all (4 trucks including mine) haven't had any problems
whatsoever. All use camaro or landcruser V8 conversion rads, 4 have manual
fans and one uses electric's only. two have 4 speed manual tranny's, 2 have
turbo 350's. 3 are using 205 transfercase's and mine uses a rockwell 2.5 ton
military transfercase. All the trucks are keeping ujoints and 3rd members
just fine. Tranny crossmember must be custom made to clear front
driveshafts. Either by modifying a toy crossmember or making a new one all
together. Hope this helps
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:18:42 -0500
From: Jay Kopycinski
Subject: V6 or V8 in an '80 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
DRM033@aol.com wrote:
>I know this has been tossed around many times, but I have a few more
>questions. I will be checking the archives and am looking for new input
>Which is easier, V6 or V8?
C'mon David....you KNOW the answer to that......
Which is cheaper?
Depends a lot on the cost of your engine and how much you
wanna saw away and how big a hammer you have.....Engine cost
will probably be the biggest factor overall.
>4.3 or Buick?
The Buick will probably be a little cheaper depending on
what you can actually find. The Buick is a little easier
to install due to the smaller overall width.
>We are planning on skipping the adapter stuff and just using 700R4 or T350
>with 203 (I think) X-fer case. Anything other than making whole new
>crossmember? (I know new drive shafts)
That'll work if the front driveshaft output is on the right side.....
I don't know much about the 203. You will sacrifice the possibility
of using a Marlin. You may not have to scrap the driveshafts
completely.....maybe just change the ends as needed. You'll need
to come up with a speedo drive.
>Any thoughts on this or any other tips? like I said, we are trying to avoid
>the $$$$$$ adapters.
Figure your complete cost carefully. It won't be cheap. Also consider
your $$ savings avoiding the adapter vs. the other implications
of doing the 203 or similar setup. I'll be glad to answer other
specific questions you may have.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY).....71k on the conversion :-)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 23:37:29 -0500
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: V6 OR V8 in an 80 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Which is easier, V6 or V8?
V6 is a much nicer fit with less mods, plus I have seen a few use the
stock exhaust manifolds with the Buick swaps.
> Which is cheaper?
Can't get cheaper than a 350, although after watching many V8 toys run
down here in Fla I can tell you the truck becomes way nose heavy and
tends to dig in while 4 poppers kinda float over the goo.
> 4.3 or Buick?
>
I looked for 4.3's for a while found a few, some shot the good ones
always cost too much. A good rebuild of a 4.3 I believe will cost you
a bit more than a 231. On the other hand I found a plethora of late
80's Buick cars complete and running for what some wanted for a
decent 4.3.I think the 4.3 has the performance advantage out of the
box but with a little coaxing the Buicks can make "I believe" more
than enough power for a Toy; Toy axles are tuff but a 350 will bust
stuff for sure if you do any kind of pedal to the floor wheeling.
You can get a Buick 231 to GM 700R or TH350 adapter for about
150.00 bucks from Downey or Advance, not too hard to find a GM
tranny and transfer and 231's are way common ( something to
contemplate, you might spend less getting the Buick motor with
GM tranny Transfer combo and buying the adapter). Dunno if you can
somehow hook up a Buick TH350 to a GM transfer. I have seen a few
V8 Toys and can tell you they are awesome but I live in Flat Swamp
land with only mud and sand to deal with. I really think that a V8
version in say a Tellico-esk type area would be asking for some breakage.
> We are planning on skipping the adapter stuff and just using 700R4 or T350
> with 203 (I think) X-fer case.
60 bucks for a part-time kit for a 203 a nice item to have.
> Anything other than making whole new
> crossmember? (I know new drive shafts)
>
I have an old Toy drive shaft that the guy had a GM style end welded on
the axle side, better than a whole new one.
> Any thoughts on this or any other tips? like I said, we are trying
> to avoid the $$$$$$ adapters.
> thanks
HEI ignition cheap and simple. I think the 6 will be much easier to cool
and keep you from having to bang or cut a lot of sheet metal.
btw did you get the pic?
Sheldon
sgard@flnet.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:22:00 EST
From: DRM033
Subject: V6 or V8 in an '80 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 98-01-27 01:27:45 EST, you write:
> Which is cheaper?
>
> Depends a lot on the cost of your engine and how much you
> wanna saw away and how big a hammer you have.....Engine cost
> will probably be the biggest factor overall.
We found a yard with 2 different 4.3L engines. They wanted $450 for one
(needed to be checked out, but included EFI intake), the other was $500 -
pulled with 40k in good shape .
> >We are planning on skipping the adapter stuff and just using 700R4 or T350
> >with 203 (I think) X-fer case. Anything other than making whole new
> >crossmember? (I know new drive shafts)
>
> That'll work if the front driveshaft output is on the right side.....
> I don't know much about the 203. You will sacrifice the possibility
> of using a Marlin. You may not have to scrap the driveshafts
> completely.....maybe just change the ends as needed. You'll need
> to come up with a speedo drive.
Actually, the 203 was a blurb on my part - we will stay away from the full
time case.
Speedo? Who needs a speedo? This may end up a trailer/trail only vehicle.
> >Any thoughts on this or any other tips? like I said, we are trying to
> avoid
> >the $$$$$$ adapters.
>
> Figure your complete cost carefully. It won't be cheap. Also consider
> your $$ savings avoiding the adapter vs. the other implications
> of doing the 203 or similar setup. I'll be glad to answer other
> specific questions you may have.
As to cost, we already have lots of parts laying around. I think we have a
4.3 somewhere from a van, & it has a 4 bbl carb & intake on it. We have a
coulpe of 350 trannys, and I think we have a T350 & 205 already hooked
together. I know we will be giving up the Marlin, but around here a marlin is
not the most important mod.
Our main idea is to put this together with as little money as possible, using
what we have on hand. I will get back to you Jay off the list for some more
info.
Thanks!
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,
4.88's, rear ARB, TJM bumper & Ramsey #8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:14:56 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Engine Swap
To:
Having a 350 under the hood of a toy does not mean over
heating problems. Quite a few of my friends have toys with
350's... The only one with a over heating problem bought the
advanced adaptors rad. the rest of us run chevy rads and I
personally run a landcruser V8 custom rad. We have "too
cool" problems. Most of us run manual fans as well. So dont
let anyone tell you it cant be done. All the 350 toys in
town couldn't be done, so most have said. One truck was all
advanced adaptors, he spent a huge amount of money.
----------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:36:57 -0500
From: Hollister
Subject: Engine Swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 04:14 PM 2/11/98 -0800, you wrote:
>Having a 350 under the hood of a toy does not mean over
>heating problems.
I agree. I have had no problems with overheating. I have an expensive
aluminum radiator, with a 17" fan with no fan clutch. Works fine.
Scott
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 06 Jan 98 17:08:16 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: engine swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>so the extra power will be welcome. My questions are: What vehicle do i get
>a 3.8(231) out of? Ive allways thought they were in those 80's cutlasses.
Well, the early Buick Regals probably are the biggest source for the 231,
Olds did use them in the cutlass, I think even pontiac used them in their
cars?? Have you looked at the early 4.3L? it's essentially a small-block
350 (5.7liter) with 2 less cylinders - they have a lot more torque, and were
available in s-10's, blazers, jimmy's, chevy caprice, caprice wagons, etc. a
lot of them were backed by the TH-350, TH-200R4 (no good), or the TH-700R4
>How much will a rebuild kit run me?
Depends on what you need - a basic kit for the 231 will run around $200
(rings, bearings, gaskets, etc.) Figure $500-600 for a set with oversize
pistons. Don't forget a good performance camshaft! The 4.3 is actually
cheaper, since the pistons and rings are common with the 5.7L.
>tranny next...what model vehicle do i wanna pull this out of?
This will HAVE to be out of a matching car, since the chevy version has a
different belhousing Most are referred to as a BOP pattern (Buick, Olds,
Pontiac) - the 4.3l shares the same bolt pattern as - you guessed it the 350
chevy - dime-a-dozen
> Will the stock radiator with a duel electric fan setup be enough?
NO, not for slow trail use, or anything over light cruising... a v-6 radiator
might be enough, or get a HD replacement from Modine or the like - I think
they have them in 2 & 3 row cores.
>Will the coil have to be modified to run the v6 ignition?
Get a HEI distributor from a non-computer controlled car - 1 wire hook-up.
As for the toyota coil - you'll need some type of distributor with a pick-up
coil in it - never seen a factory unit - there are aftermarket units that
will fire the toyota coil. Otherwise it's points & a standard coil - probaby
easiest to scavange what's already in the car that you'll use for a donor.
>Ive also been advised to go with a very low stall tourque converter...just
>how low?
Get a good RV/Motorhome/towing converter - that should be heavy enough, and
if I haven't already mentioned it - one for the 4.3 L will be cheaper due to
the fact that a LOT of RV's & Vans have the 305/350 chevy engine.
Have fun either way.
- - Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 22 Jan 1998 13:44:59 -0500
From: "Wilbur M. Yegge"
Subject: engine conversion
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Well seeing as i cant write HTML, and i want to share with everybody
how my 4.3 swap is going...if nobody minds i'll just post everything i do
on the list.
Recieved the th350 adapter from sheldon...so when my Dad's vacation is done
he'll bring it up to me(nice time of year to get out of maine..lucky SOB),
and my moter was delivered to my house last night. It came out of a friends
monte carlo and in its day it was a tire burner from hell. I dunno if im
just gonna clean it up and change the valve seals (it smoked), or use it as
a core and get another one from a napa engine rebuilding place about an
hour from my house. Most people ive talked to says they'll set me up with a
well executed rebuilt engine for around 500$. so i dunno. This weekend im
headin over to get rapid refund income tax return so next week im gonna
have about 1200 to play with. THAT MEANS ONE HELL OF A TRIP TO THE LOCAL
OFF-ROAD STORE!!! engine mounts, and a radiator...nice fresh
tranny..adapter headers...YEE HAWWW!!!...ok i am stumped on a few things
though..like what should i do about my alternator??..buy a braket and use
the stock Toy model?..or splice into my electrical system and use the gm
model(I know theres gonna be plenty of wiring to be done).I dont have power
steering so i dont hafta worry about that(it sucked with the 36.5 X 14.00).
Another thing i want NO part of is fuel infestation...this motor has a
dirty lookin tbi setup...thats gotta go...anybody know who makes an intake
and carb for a 4.3? im lookin at usin a 390 2bbl. Any thoughts on those
aftermarket radiators with the built in tranny coolers?..thats the one im
leanin towards with a small in-line secondary cooler
just to be safe......theres gonna be alot more to come so I'll stop wastin
bandwith...oh ya..anybody ever pick up a 4.3?...those things..and i swear
its true...are on helluva lot lighter that a 22R.....thanks..Trev..
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 23 Jan 98 11:53:02 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: engine conversion
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, "Wilbur M. Yegge" wrote:
>tranny..adapter headers...YEE HAWWW!!!...ok i am stumped on a few things
>though..like what should i do about my alternator??..buy a braket and use
>the stock Toy model?..or splice into my electrical system and use the gm
>model(I know theres gonna be plenty of wiring to be done)
Either way it's an easy hook-up... If it were me I'd use the alternator that
came on the engine if it's there, otherwise the adapter is an easy bolt-on w/
no wiring.
>Another thing i want NO part of is fuel infestation...this motor has a
>dirty lookin tbi setup...thats gotta go...anybody know who makes an intake
>and carb for a 4.3? im lookin at usin a 390 2bbl.
Well, Chevy (GM) makes a 2bbl & a 4 bbl manifold for their carbs. They came
on early trucks and on a lot of Boat engines (still do as a matter of fact).
Edelbrock also makes an aftermarket manifold. Do you have access to all the
wiring and the computer for the TBI setup? I'd use it if I were you, or I'd
buy it from you if it's fairly complete.
> Any thoughts on those
>aftermarket radiators with the built in tranny coolers?..thats the one im
>leanin towards with a small in-line secondary cooler
>just to be safe.
That's what I'm using and it works great so far from towing in 92-95 degree
heat to the freezing cold we have now. I'm using the advance adapters
radiator and a summit racing 24,000 lb rated cooler on the return line.
Good luck with the swap...
- - Brian
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 06 Feb 1998 01:37:04 -0500
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Parts Pile is addin up
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Went to the off-road store again today. Got the install kit for
> TH350 adapter i got from sheldon...i can't say this enuff...that was a
> nice lookin unit...real clean...shaft is clean and in GREAT shape..
Thank you... I bet you expected a rusted dinged up unit with missing
teeth eh?:)
> .but anyway...also picked up this fancy little over-priced trasfer
> case mounthing plate(the adjustable kind)...
JUNK JUNK JUNK JUNK.....I'll bet my truck you won't be happy with the
extended bracket thing, Move the crossmemeber back by flipping it.
(front holes in the rear holes.) Drill a 1/2 hole through the frame
at the now rear hole, get a grade 8 bolt use a piece of clothes hanger
wire wrapped around the bolt head and feed it into the frame and through
the hole. Use a lock washer and bolt on the bottom. This is way stronger
and will look and perform much better, you will bend something using that
plate, i'd bet on it. I can tell you what I had to do when I swapped my
83 Tranny to a 92 unit (drill new holes or widen them up, I cut out the
material from bolt hole to bolt hole "front to back" making basically
what that silly adapter plate looks like. Then used larger washers with
stock 12mm bolts) I realize you are going to a TH350 but the above
method will probably work especially if you use a longer TH350 unit.
my 2 cent's
Sheldon
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 15:08:15 -0500
From: Sheldon Gardner
Subject: Engine swap
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> --
>
> Date: Wed, 04 Mar 1998 19:19:45 -0600
> From: Sumner
> Subject: Engine swap questions
> To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>
>I have an '81 Toy and I want to drop a 350 in. The only transmission I hear
>of being put in is a TH350. Is there a manual transmission that will work
>with this swap? And will I still be able to use my stock transfer case and
>a Marlin Crawler?
>
> Thanks
> - -Crawl
>
Just my humble opinion but after looking into swapping a 6 or 8 into my
truck and the cost of adapters and such, I really think the best thing
cost wise for a 350 swap would be a TH350 auto tranny with a NP205
transfer both units are way dependable and common. If you like manuals
you can go with a SM465 4 speed. 1st gear "granny" is way low not too
sure about the ratio but I know that you don't use it during normal
driving. I have seen one Toy with this setup and the thing had nothing
but forward once in gear.
Sheldon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Mar 1998 09:55:46 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Engine swap questions
To: Toyota 4x4 List
There are a number of trannies you can use:
TH350
TH400
700R4
NV4500
Muncie M22
Toy 4 or 5 speed
Toy heavy duty truck 5 speed
Daihatsu heavy duty truck 5 speed
Adapters are available for all of these...just depends on your
goals and budget.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Mar 1998 11:03:35 -0600
From: "Michael Rowe"
Subject: Engine swap questions
To:
If you're going with a small block I would avoid the TH400. It requires an
additional 50hp to spin it. It's better suited to higher HP drag racing or
heavy towing apps. Unless of course you want to show out at the stoplights
and one-up those musclecars.
Michael Rowe
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 09:57:03 -0500
From: Jeff Tamulis
Subject: V8 Toyota
To: Ryan Wilburn ,
I Just spent the last week installing my Ford 5.0 into my 1987 Toyota
4Runner. This is a post to everyone on my mailing lists so If I get you
twice, or you don't know who I am, Sorry. I used the Advance Adapters
Kit to put a T-5 and a 1995 Ford 5.0 motor into my truck (1987
4Runner). It is now bolted up, I still have a lot of odds and ends,
like exhaust, and a radiator, electrical and fuel lines, and a few other
things. But I am now completely confident I can finish the project. The
hardest part is done, physically putting it IN the truck and bolting
everything in. It was not the easiest thing in the world to do, and and
I had some friends help out (Thanks Jerry and Dad). I'll be Making a
web site eventually for this swap, to try to make it easier for anyone
to do the swap. Thanks all. Have fun
Jeff Tamulis
Toyota #5: 1987 Black Toyota 4Runner SR5, 2" body lift, 2.5" Rancho IFS
suspension lift, 4 Rancho 9000s, 33x12.50x15s, American Racing AR23's,
Alpine Stereo system, Ford 5.0 V8, T-5 Transmission, Warn Manual hubs,
and more mods to come (dana 60, 4.88s with lockers F+R)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 13:33:37 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
First of all, I want to say that I'm not making fun or anything...I
seriously want to konw. Why???
1. I understand that chevy engines are VERY cheap, and that converting an
engine is propably about the same amount of work, no matter what enigne
you put in it. Also, I am aware that the toyota V6's don't work with the
solid axle front suspension. Has anyone tried to modify the oil pan?
2. It seems to me that a higher quality alternative would save money in
the long run (less time at Kragens or equivolent Auto Parts stores).
I think, really my question is, why a Toyota? Why not buy a Chevy, if you
like the Chevy V8 so much? Again, I'm not poking fun...jsut curious.
Is it preference for the Toy running gear? I just don't understand
what would neccessitate a large pushrod engine. Is it mud specific? I
don't see it as an advantage in rock crawling, ect. The heavy iron would
throw the weight distribution off even more, so I can't see one doing
well in the sand. Stock Toys w/ tires and lockers are unstopable in
the sand. If its towing, you'd be better off with a longer, bigger truck,
which would come with a V8 anyway.
I don't see the toy 4 as a weak engine. I'm wondering why people don't
swap in, maybe the turbo EFI engines. I have a factory 22-RTE and V8
trucks just simply can't touch me on the hills...brand new Fords, Chevys,
Dodges, Range Rovers, you name it. I imagine that this would improve w/
an intercooler or other similar mods. If you want to compare mod
trucks, compare them to a modified toy :-). Is it just because no one has
tried this swap? Has any one??? Is it just testosterone? If it is, say no
more, I understand that much.
Just curious...Jon Brandt
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:46:02 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
I will do a swap as soon as I have the time/$$
The bigger engines run at lower rpm's so crawling IS better. And you think
a toy does good in the sand, ha. I used to live by pismo and I hated
beating my truck in the sand, a WAY under powered for sand! That was when I
had 31's so it isn't because of my 35's. I have rebuilt my engine atleast 5
times now and they are easy, which is a plus but you can't legally modify
them in CA so the only way to get more umph is with an engine swap.
Just my thoughts...
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 16:02:29 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
other things to consider about engine swaps. I installed a
chevy 350 for less then it cost me to rebuild my 22r motor.
I didnt need to buy lower gears to go to larger tires. I'm
too low with the 4.10's right now. My top speed sucks! Gas
milage is the same as my slightly done 22r was. Its not much
heavier, and power is way better then the 22r. The cost to
fix and rebuild the chevy motors are so cheap that it makes
me lauch. I have averaged it to around 1/5th the cost of
same part for the 22r. I chose the toyota truck for its
smaller size (full size trucks have a hard time up here) and
its great offroad ability. Also super strong drivetrain. The
only part I hated was the lack of power. Dont knock it till
you try it. Take a friends V8 Toyota truck out for a spin,
go offroading with them and see how they do. Almost all of
my friends with toys have converted. and the rest are
thinking about it. There is so many great reasons to change
motors and almost no reason to not due it. Dont listen to
people that say ALL V6 and V8 toys overheat. Talk to all of
us that have no overheating problems or even underheating
problems. Get the facts. I checked into different
conversions and all my options for almost 2 years before I
decided what I wanted to do.
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 17:51:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
Yea, but my question still remains unanswered...what advantages does the
swap have OVER a Toy engine. As far as I can tell, even the 4 cyls. do
well, if they are not over geared, like 33's w/ 4:10's.
I understand the concept of the gearing advantage and modifications, ect.
But, I was looking for maybe an example of what a big V8 can do that the
toys can't. I can believe mud bogging, which is something I am not
interested in doing anyway. Its just that I believe that, "if it aint
broke, why fix it."
I don't need to go into COMPLETE details here and now, but there is s very
true reason that chev. parts are so damn cheap. When you know the facts, its
not funny at all. Its simple, they penny pinch. Thats why I bought a Toyota
in the first place. I recently read an article in an engineering magazine
about the economics of warrantees and engineering. It seems GM looses
bundles every year, from getting sued and replacing faulty parts under
warantees. When compared to Japanese manufacturers GM spends around 3-4
times as much each year, dealing with faulty parts. This is their own choice.
They chose to save $.40* per water pump gasket, only to end up loosing
profit in the long run. This is why they are always in court over something.
If I ever pulled an OJ, I would hope to have a GM lawyer defending me.
* I didn't pull this out of my ass. This is a referencable fact :-)
I'm not bashing! These are the facts. I can tell you the exact source of
these tid bits of info. if you care. I'm sure you don't. It might take me a
week or so, though because I read it @ a friend's house. Can't remember the
publication.
Please don't turn this stuff into an arguement. This list is about
sharing information and opinions.
I can understand wanting more power and trying to save money, and
everything. I'm a total cheap ass. That is why a swap is not for me. I'd
rather put around in my 220,000+ rice burner for now. I was just
wondering what I might be missing out on. If I DID have money
I would be thinking about other engines, but ones that last longer than a
few thousand miles. I hate getting greasy! I don't know what I'm missing,
I don't spend alot of time in the garage, just on the trail.
[WARNING - Chevy lovers close your eyes (this is a
Toyota list anyway so no one should be offended)]
I will never buy something engineered by such an irresponsible company as GM.
I will stand behind this statement. I can quote GM to make my point.
For those of you interested, I will post this info of reference later,
when I get a hold of it. I think it is very interesting. I'm sure many of
you will be too.
Happy trails, Jon Brandt
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:31:58 -0600
From: Robert Stein
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
Not knocking you but I find
this hard to believe. After getting my `85 and reading TONS of
info off both the list and peoples pages, I ordered catalogs and
info from several of the reported manufactured of the "PARTS" to
do a good conversion. AFTER the shock wore off of the COST of such
a swap < My hats off to those of you that ACTUALLY PAID for this
operation > I figured that my little 22 RE has MORE than enough
power in my beast :) ....
My truck has 4:10's also and is pulling 33x14.50x15 Mickey
Thompson's and STILL averages 16-18 mpg's AROUND TOWN. As for the
cost of re-building, from what I've seen up on the web, a TOTAL
re-build < - labor > is REAL close to that of a Chevy motor.
On the other side of the coin, IF I was going to get into
serious MUD racing, or Monster Truck racing, I could see the
added expense of going V-8, but for us average off-roaders,
I can't see spending the close to $2000 - $3000 of "dropping-
in " a V-8 .. A close friend of mine has a truck < Toyota>
set-up almost identical to mine and nothing around here can
hold a candle to it < STOCK 22 RE with 20 R head > ..
Again , I'm knocking of you folks that can AFFORD to do
these elaborate mods , but us "poor boys :) " can only think
about it ....NOT saying I would pass the oppertunity by to get
one, but wouldn't go out of my way for it ....
---------------
Robert Stein rjstein@lawtonok.net `85 SR5 X-Tra Cab
rrbbs@juno.com STOCK 22R-E Motor
Lawton,Okla rjstein@wolverine.cameron.edu 12+" Lift<3"body>
http://www.lawtonok.net/rjstein/toyota.html 33x14.50x15 Mickey's
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:35:51 EST
From: DRM033
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
Are you nuts? I would love to take my dad's 98 Dakota Sport V8 4x4 and blow
your doors off on a hill. I just can't believe a Toy turbo is that good.
Others please enlighten me if I am blind to the "V8 creaming power" of a
22RTE.
You are also comparing a little light truck to fullsize trucks. Big weight
difference.
As to the "why a Chevy swap" question, I will leave that to those who have
done it.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,4.88's
rear ARB, front LockRite,TJM bumper & Ramsey 8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
www.netmatter.com/traxx
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 21:49:10 EST
From: DRM033
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
It may be different where smog controls are strict, but here I could have a
350,350 auto, and a chevy xfer in my truck for under $1500.
Sure it gets expensive if you go buy every transfer adapter, "special"
radiator, special motor mounts, stc. In my opinion, all of that is for people
who should not really be doing a swap in the first place.
When you start paying $500 for an adapter, prices can sky-rocket fast. That
is why I would go with a chevy transfer case. Build the motor mounts, make
your own crossmember, get yourself some driveshafts & you are off
(oversimplified, but not by much). Again, if you don't have to deal with
strict emissions, you can get by easier, (much easier!)
As to Toy engines being enough, and that the only use for a V8 would be in
mud, again you are wrong. Obviously YOU don't need a V8 because you haven't
gotten to the point where a 4 cyl just won't cut it.
It all comes down to this: "There is no replacement for DISPLACEMENT" ;)
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Moore DRM033@aol.com
90 Toyota Truck - 4" ProComp, 33" Swampers,4.88's
rear ARB, front LockRite,TJM bumper & Ramsey 8000
TLCA #5662
Traxx In Motion 4 Wheel Drive Club
www.netmatter.com/traxx
- -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 20:08:05 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
I dont know why anybody would spend a lot of money on
swapping a motor. I, myself and 3 other friends did the swap
for under $1000.00 per truck. Try "doing" a 22r for that.
-------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 01:17:43 -0500
From: Agustinus Gunawan
Subject: RE: Chevota and engine swaps???
I have 22RTE engine in my truck. This engine is quick for acceleration but
have sluggish throttle response due to turbo lag. Personally I think it is
better than the early V6 but no way it can match a well built V8. You could
modify is run very vast but the reliability and driveability would sucks.
A 250 HP cheapo Small Block Chevy would still run more reliable than an 250
HP 22R engine.
I do not intend to swap my engine, it is good enough for my application.
But for you who are power hungry I agree a Small Block Chevy would be
better than a Hi Po 22R at least in truck application and off-road driving
condition.
---------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 22 Mar 1998 22:56:30 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
I use a turbo350, just finnished installing a second one.
Once it goes, I have decided to go manual. A friend of mine
uses a 4 speed manual chev truck tranny in his toy. He uses
land cruser clutch parts. It works extremely well.
As far as keeping it cheap, Wait until you get a wicked deal
on engine/tranny/transfercase combo. Make adaptor plates for
motor mounts and modify the crossmember. Driveshafts can be
made cheap (mine for $130.00 for both) this lets you save
the cost for any adaptors. Grab a land cruser or chevy rad
that fits up front, and your done. (I kept it simple) Done
properly, a manual fan will fit so you dont have to pay for
the electric fan.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 14:10:42 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: RE: Chevota and engine swaps???
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Agustinus Gunawan wrote:
> I have 22RTE engine in my truck. This engine is quick for acceleration but
> have sluggish throttle response due to turbo lag. Personally I think it is
> better than the early V6 but no way it can match a well built V8. You could
> modify is run very vast but the reliability and driveability would sucks.
Now you're comparing apples and potatoes!!! Stock vs. "well built"? Come on.
>
> A 250 HP cheapo Small Block Chevy would still run more reliable than an 250
> HP 22R engine.
Your opinion that a chev. would be "more reliable" is base on the fact
that it is bigger. The iron in the chevy engine block is like butter.
What do you determine is reliable? Making it for one trip, or for 15+
years? You can change all the parts you want (at some expense), except for
the block, which remains cheap, soft iron. You can't expect it not to last
more than a year, w/ stop and start wheel'n every other week end. You can't
go every week end 'cause you're in the garage. I can say with scientific and
statistical basis that chevy's are not reliable enough to even compare
with toyota reliability. If you don't agree, join the chev list.
I don't have an arguement with you wanting to put a V8 in. Just know that
they are CHEAP.
Jon :-)
--------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 15:44:12 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: why chevy power
I plan on installing a 4.3 liter Chevy v-6. Because of money it will
probably take me a couple of years (sooner if my 22RE goes).
Just keep an eye in the paper.
I found a 1985 4.3 liter Throttle Body running in the car for $500. He
even sold me the whole car for that price and I drove it home. It will
probably take me 6 months to rebuild.
I also came across a NV4500 transmission to put behind it. With the
speeds now days you need overdrive.
The extra cost to install this will be using an aftermarket wiring
harness (Jay Kopycinski used an aftermarket one. I hear it makes the
install a little easier but they do cost some $$)
The other big money will be buying an adapter from the NV4500 to the
Toyota t-case.
The reasons-I run 33X15.50 Swamper's with 5.29. My top speed is about
85 mph on a flat road with no wind. Up hills I still have to sometimes
drop to third to keep the speed above 55mph.
You have no power to pass people who are driving 60 in a 65 zone.
Someone I think said that these engines run better at lower RPM's so I
think crawling would be easier in the 500-1000 rmp range.
I do not think gas milage will be very different. Most of the time I am
full throttle with the 22RE. with the 4.3 I will probably be 1/4 to 1/2
throttle.
But, with the engine rebuild, wiring harness, adapters and most other
parts I will be in it about the same as a pretty well built 22RE.
Most states it is very legal to do these swaps (even California).
Mainly you need to install an engine the same year of your vehicle or
newer and keep the emissions from the engine you are installing.
Toyota Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 16:17:56 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: LC Stroker Crank..
>I double checked the prices for the LC cranks and stroker stuff...
>
>9/97 price list
> 2.6L stoker "kit" - $1,660
> Stroker crank - $645
OUCH ! These prices, especially for the 'relatively' small performance
gains from them is why people swap in Chevy power. I know I don't have
even half as much as that crank alone in my 3.8L v6 and it makes
170hp and 270 ft. lbs of torque ... and my numbers are at 2000rpm not
4-5K rpm like LC is famous for ...
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:57:49 EST
From: "james stevenson"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
>For those of your running "swapped engines", any of you rockcrawlers???
I am running a Chev 6.5 Intercooled Turbo Diesel. I have done about 30
conversions with the 6.5 in the workshop. I use 4 gearboxes with the
swap. The toy G52F 5 speed (bigger main bearings and the lower ration LC
first gears) and marlin 4.7's in the Tcase. The T350 auto for street
driven rigs only. The Mitsubishi 3 ton truck 5 speed or the NV4500 with
or without marlin gears. I have use the G52F in my truck and blown 3
over 2 years rockcrawling. These are cheep and parts just about grow on
trees here. I recently swapped to the NV4500 with marlin dual Tcase
(4.7 ration in second Tcase). This works well but I needed to replace
the tunnel and some of the firewall to do it. I get about 28 Mpg around
town 20Mpg on the Freeway and 35Mpg offroad. Yes offroad uses less fuel
and I chew fuel on the freeway due to the gears and the weight I'm
pulling. I also get a tax rebate on the Diesel fuel making it about 30%
cheaper then petrol.
James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 17:14:44 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
I am starting to see some prejudice coming out, not facts.
chevy motors ie v8's can be very reliable. It all depends on
maintenance and the driver. A properly maintaned motor will
last forever. My 350 is 15 years old, still very strong. All
its ever needed was a timing chain. I will agree the 22r
"can" go longer (mine had over 350,000km) but it still needs
the proper level of maintainance to do it. I needed a
certian amount of power and torque to get my offroading
done. "doing" a 22r to get this power makes the 22r
unreliable and extremely pricey. This can be acomplished
with a stock v8. So I guess by following your reasoning, my
83 350 has been rebuilt 15 times, once each and every year.
And spent half its life in the garage getting fixed. Man I
wonder how it got 170,000 km on it in the garage. Dont put
down other vehicles. I want choice! And different things
have different life spans and good and bad things about
them. Non are better or worse, just different! I love my
toyota, but I swear at it every time it breaks, just as I do
with my other vehicles.
As far as why they are cheap, consider the true reason. MAde
in North America! and MAde by the millions. There are
probully 1000's of times more chevy v8's out there then all
the toyota vehicles ever made put together.
---------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 23 Mar 1998 18:19:57 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
OK guys, this will be the end of it.
Don't argue with me, just look into it, man.
The truth about chevy's products:
1. Their engine blocks ARE made out of soft iron, which wears quickly.
Toyota uses a high nickle content iron alloy.
Bet'cha didn't know that, but now you're think'n "oh, that's why..."
2. The chevy engine is so popular to upgrade because of its long history
of short life span - frequent rebuilds. If you're gonna do it so often
your going to start think about different parts. The availability of
parts has nothing to do with the quality of engineering of the engine.
3. Chevy engines are VERY big. ie - more power. Duh.
I never said that my stock rice burner has more power than a V8.
What I will say, is that with over 200,000 miles it still has more life
in it than a chevy V8, built or not. It's the laws of physics. Action,
reaction, friction, wear. All I want to do is warn others who might be
thinking of swaping with some FACTUAL INFORMATION. This list is about
helping people. My origonal post was to see if I was missing something
(information reguarding the use of V8s). Then, several of you replied
telling tales of tire smoking and [paced] hill eating performance. This
has answered my question.
Look guys! Don't take this personally. GM penny pinches on quality. This
is a Toyota list group. I know I'm ruffling some feathers, but get over it!
What I say is the truth. What can be said? Its not about you, or your truck.
Gees!!! Look, you have one (that's nice), you love it, great. I don't think
that anyone should keep quiet, just to avoid conflict. I think its great that
everyone has responded. I personally don't think that anyone is upset
over this, we're just sharing info.
Conclusion: its a testosterone thing, baby. I'm a wuss!!!
If I wanted to continue this string I would challenge some one to answer:
"What benefit does it have in the bush?", but I won't because I know the
answer. It means more intamate time with the truck :-)
Law de daw, Jon Brandt
----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 02:18:30 -0500
From: "wolfer1"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
Jon wrote:
Making it for one trip, or for 15+ years? You can change all the parts
you want (at some expense), except for the block, which remains cheap,
soft iron. You can't expect it not to last more than a year, w/ stop
and start wheel'n every other week end. You can't
go every week end 'cause you're in the garage.
I have to disagree with this statement and this is from fact. I have
helped with a few Chevy 350 conversions in Toyota's and all of them
have gone over 200,000 miles encluding the one I did for myself. No
major rebuilds a water pump was the most severe thing. Does that
constitute major garage time? They have been to Moab, Santiago Canyon
to the glaciers in Alaska an several points in-between with these
conversions. Can your turbo boast that claim?
I never said that my stock rice burner has more power than a V8.
No but you did say "I have a factory 22-RTE and V8
trucks just simply can't touch me on the hills...brand new Fords,
Chevys,
Dodges, Range Rovers, you name it." My neighbor's son has a Toy turbo
15k on rebuild and it can not touch my father in laws Dodge Ram 318
V-8 on a hill this was proven when I help move him and was towing a
15ft trailer full and still passed him up a 6% grade hill with ease
and not even at full throttle. Did you ever consider that the other
trucks were not trying to keep up with you on the hills? You talk
about "FACTUAL INFORMATION and What I say is the truth " where are you
getting this information from? Can you share this with me so I can
read it for myself? You also said " I know more about the metallurgy
of the Chevy engine than, it seems anyone who has commented." How do
you know more, are you a metallurgist? Yes all the big three at one
point used not so good quality in their iron, but thing back to the
70's and Toyota they did the same thing. Your trying to compare a
fairly current Toy motors to a older Chevy motors. Here your comparing
apples to oranges. Last question you said "Let's
try...technology...naw, never mind...PUSHRODS RULE" What technology
are you referring too? As you said "I don't think that anyone should
keep quiet, just to avoid conflict." I'm not keeping quiet about this
I would just like some answers to my questions.
Thanks
Domenick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 04:26:13 -0800
From: "Craig Blanchette"
Subject: Chevy V8 life spans
Actually I believe the real reason that the chevy motor is
the most popular to upgrade is because it offers the
cheapest horsepower for the buck. From the mild to the
extreme. All and still being reliable. People wouldn't buy
chevys if they didnt work. Chevy wouldn't be the company it
is if they are anywhere near as bad as you think they are.
And not to rag on you, chevy owners bug me all the time too,
"if you want chevy, buy a chevy" "How dare you put a chevy
in THAT!" etc etc. Everybody's the same. So what do I
naturally do? I paint the 350 ford blue instead of orange or
yellow. You should see their faces! Pure outrage that I
defiled a chevy motor.
You dont want to put a 350 in your truck, fine, don't! But
don't disuade other that are considering it but useing
remarks that cant be proven and/or just not true. Let them
try it, either by doing it or riding in one that's been
done. Why do people put mazda springs under a toy. cause it
gets the job done! Why a V8, same!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:48:12 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: RE: Chevota and engine swaps???
Jon Brandt wrote:
>Your opinion that a chev. would be "more reliable" is base on the fact
>that it is bigger. The iron in the chevy engine block is like butter.
>What do you determine is reliable? Making it for one trip, or for 15+
>years? You can change all the parts you want (at some expense), except for
>the block, which remains cheap, soft iron. You can't expect it not to last
>more than a year, w/ stop and start wheel'n every other week end. You can't
>go every week end 'cause you're in the garage. I can say with scientific and
>statistical basis that chevy's are not reliable enough to even compare
>with toyota reliability. If you don't agree, join the chev list.
I'm trying very hard to stay out of your own private little 'rant' that you
have going on about chevy engines but the statements you make above
are just about utterly ridiculous. Give me a break please. All you've ranted
about for the past two days is YOUR opinions about this and that as to
how Chevy engines aren't reliable. I've got numerous cases where Chevy
engines, work horse engines have run and run and run ... with NO maintenance
whatsoever ... not changing the oil, plugs, filters, not a thing. Granted a
toyota engine could run for a long time under the same conditions ... but
Toyota 4 cyl. engines just down have much power. Plain and simple ...
As to the rest of your ranting ... you might want to look into rec.autos.4x4
there are alot of other people with your mindset that might like to 'converse'
with you.
- jack
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:13:52 -0500 (EST)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Jon Brandt wrote:
>
> OK guys, this will be the end of it.
> Don't argue with me, just look into it, man.
>
> The truth about chevy's products:
>
> 1. Their engine blocks ARE made out of soft iron, which wears quickly.
> Toyota uses a high nickle content iron alloy.
> Bet'cha didn't know that, but now you're think'n "oh, that's why..."
>
much deleted. The above is the only statement made in the whole email.
> Conclusion: its a testosterone thing, baby. I'm a wuss!!!
>
> If I wanted to continue this string I would challenge some one to answer:
> "What benefit does it have in the bush?", but I won't because I know the
> answer. It means more intamate time with the truck :-)
>
I think you are underestimating american motors and over estimating toyota
motors. The 22RE has problems with head warping. The 3.0V6 blows gaskets.
My 22RE motor has already had timing chain replaced and needed a new head
gasket when it blew and leaked coolant into the number 1 cylinder
(previous owner showed records of oil changes every 3K miles). I believe
the head is slightly warped since it doesn't mate well with my NWOR header
(which mated extremely well on my old but same year 22RE). I think the
motors are very underpowered and the 3.0V6 eats too much gas. I took a 400
mile trip in my 22RE 4Runner with a friend in his 280+hp 1987 mustang GT
(5.0 V8). Guess who got the best gas mileage? He did. He got 24mpg and I
only got 22mpg. His engine has 150K+ miles but yet can do sub 14 sec
quarter miles. He beats the hell out of that engine every weekend at the
track but also takes care of it. My truck would be measured in minutes for
a quarter mile.
Here are some of the benefits.
1) Improved gas mileage when towing. It is well known that a smaller
engine will consume more gas when towing a large load compared to a V-8
towing the same load. The smaller engine has to work outside its normal
parameters.
2) Improved torque curve. Torque will come on at a lower RPM. This is good
for slow speed 4x4. 22RE does a good job of turning the factory tires but
gives up the ghost on larger tires.
3) Higher torque curve. Engine will produce more torque at any RPM. Nice
for those long hills where now I have to downshift and increase the RPMs
on my 22RE.
4) Inexpensive parts. Parts are readily available from high performance
manufacturers. You don't have to buy cheap parts but you can get high
quality inexpensive parts from many manufacturers.
5) Horsepower. I can keep the engine in a lower RPM to generate more
horsepower than a 22RE to allow me to pass people, accelerate and tow. I
wouldn't have to push the engine past 3500 rpms much at all. This actually
reduces the wear and tear on the engine. A V-8 motor also distributes that
wear and tear across larger and stronger components. If you are using 50hp
to drive down the street, that 22RE will be distributing that 50hp on
fewer and small components (4cylinder) while the V-8 will be distributing
that same 50hp across more components which are larger and stronger.
Compare the size of the connecting rods, or the piston size or the crank
shaft. Now, if you are doing 1/4 mile runs, that V-8 has the ability to
put out 225+hp which will allow more force on all the components. If you
built a 22RE to put out 225+hp, I bet you would be rebuilding that motor
every year. The stock components couldn't do it, nor should you want to do
it. The reason you might be thinking that a V-8 is less reliable may be
that it has to handle 225+hp and 300lbs of torque through out its life.
The 22RE isn't even in the same ball park with 116hp (1985). I can't
remember the torque figures but it isn't at all close to 300lbs.
Now, I personally don't know of a V-8 that has needed a rebuild. My
brother has a Chevy Caprice with a V-8 with 150K+ miles and a Pontiac GTA
160K+ miles. Both motors are running very well. The above mustang GT still
has the original motor. My grandfather still has a 454ci V-8 in New
Zealand from 1971 that runs great on lpg and gas. He keeps putting it in
different cars and boats.
As far as toyota motors go. We had a camry that broke its timing belt at
80K miles, which was replaced and the motor inspected. However, at 120K
miles, a piston collasped and the motor blew, maybe due to a valve hitting
a pistion earlier. It now has a rebuilt motor. My previous truck (22RE)
needed a head gasket replacement, and a new timing chain at 140K miles. My
current truck also needed a new head gasket, and has had its timing chain
done.
My brother-in-law has a Dakota 4x4 with the 319 V-8. It is very sweet to
drive. When I hit the gas in that thing, it goes. No windup needed. No
rubber band tightening. I have out accelerated many sport cars in that
truck. Geo Metro's have out accelerated me in my 4Runner :-(
As soon as my current motor goes, in goes a Ford HO V-8 with a T-5
transmission.
Cheers,
Karl Bellve, Ph.D.
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
Phone: (508) 856-3785
Fax : (508) 856-1840
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 11:03:51 -0800
From: "Vic & Lorelei"
Subject: Why Chevota over other Type of truck....
Jonathan Albrecht Wrote;
>I dunno about other people, but I guess I've always wanted a v8 (I'm not
>picky, chevy, ford, AMC, whatever!), but letsee.. what do they come in
>(stock). Jeeps.. sure, but they're a bit short and the scrambler is a
>bit... I dunno, not what I want (but kinda close). Bronco's and scouts
>have them, and are also great trucks, but again.. not exactly what I'm
>looking for (they make me feel like I'm sitting in bathtub.. albeit a
>really capable and tough one!). The fullsizes are sorta affordable and
>almost all of them have a v8, but they're so darn big.. I guess the
>Toyota is just my favorite body/size/style... Just a personal preference
>thing I guess!
I am with you completely here Jonathan.
>I actually was to the point that I was either gonna get a v8 landcruiser
>(swapped in) or a v8 jeep.. but then this Toyota came up, and I figure
>it's kinda the best mix. You not only get the v8 power but you get it
>in the Toyota body. The question is how well the rest of the Toyota
>stuff will hold up..
I as well was looking at V8 LC'ers. Prices are way up there for a LC as it
is and if you want a V8 in it it is outrages to me.
>Offroad.. unless you really need to spin the tires the v8 doesn't really
>have many advantages, and it uses more gas, adds more weight and >runs
warmer. I think I do better in my unlocked, un-geared IFS 4Runner >than I
do with the locked/lifted/geared/leaf sprung chevota (mostly cause >I'm new
to driving an auto), but hey, it's fun to drive, and is perfect for
>back home (where I intend to leave it, no matter what my friends down
>here say!!).
I find that with the extra torque out of the V8 I dont need to keep my foot
into it. So in fact my gas mileage has gone up for me in the bush and on the
road. I went with the Chev 4-speed as I really dont like autos. Just me
thow. To each there own.
Another reason that I went to V8 in my Toy and not a Chev it the total
weight thing. I can float across just abought anything with the flutter of
the throttle where a Toy would power out and a Chev would either sink or
spin and dig in. I wish ya'll could experience what a Chevota is capable of.
I guess you know as your truck do the same thing. Just take it one step
farther!! We all LOVE out trucks and that is why were here sharing our own
personal experiences. If we were all the same life would be no fun. Right?
COULD YOU ASK FOR ANYTHING MORE? =8-)
When approaching a four-way stop,
the vehicle with the largest
tires always has the right of way.
ICQ # 895123
http://www.cnx.net/~vsery/
vsery@cnx.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 15:00:09 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Re: Chevota and engine swaps???
Jon Brandt wrote:
>I think, really my question is, why a Toyota? Why not buy a Chevy, if you
>like the Chevy V8 so much? Again, I'm not poking fun...jsut curious.
>Is it preference for the Toy running gear?
The Toyota has a better quality frame and running gear and is a good
size for rock-crawling. A Chevy frame just couldn't take the same abuse.
>I just don't understand
>what would neccessitate a large pushrod engine. Is it mud specific? I
>don't see it as an advantage in rock crawling, ect. The heavy iron would
>throw the weight distribution off even more, so I can't see one doing
>well in the sand. Stock Toys w/ tires and lockers are unstopable in
>the sand. If its towing, you'd be better off with a longer, bigger truck,
>which would come with a V8 anyway.
For crawling, the V6 or V8 torque is a big advantage.
>I don't see the toy 4 as a weak engine. I'm wondering why people don't
>swap in, maybe the turbo EFI engines.
Not enough torque, turbos run hotter, power doesn't come on until
higher in the rpm range, and lower reliability compared to a stock, la