Body Lifts
Date: Tue, 3 Dec 1996 13:30:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: body lift
To: tlcal@tlca.org
A few people were interested in how to install a body lift (on the offroad
digest) and I decided to post this here too incase anyone might be
interested.
Installing a body lift on a Toyota p/u truck:
First, off, you need to totally drench all of the body bolts. There are
six cab bolts and eight bed bolts. It is best to do this a few days
before you lift the truck. Also, you might want to take a heavy steel
brush to the threads.
Preparing the cab to be lifted: The first step, is to remove the bolts
holding the steering shaft to the splined shafts sticking out of the
steering box and firewall. You may also want to heavily coat the splines
with some kind of liquid wrench. Next, locate all of the ground straps
that are tied to the frame. There is one near the battery, and another
over by the steering box. Remove the bolts holding these in place. For
manual transmission trucks, the hydraulic clutch line needs to be removed
from it's bracket located on the firewall. This is so the line is free to
move separately from the body when it is lifted. Additionally, there is a
ground tying the engine to the firewall. This too needs to be removed.
There are also four bolts holding the radiator in place, which need to be
removed.
Next, in the cab, the carpet needs to be pulled up to expose four of the
cab body bolts. The shifter boot will also need to be removed anyway, so
you might as well remove this while you are at it. We've found it easiest
just to remove the seat (four bolts,), the two plastic things in the door
sill, and the two plastic kick panels. With all of that out, the carpet
should just lift out. The front is held in with Velcro, and the rest was
secured with the pieces that were just removed.
Finally, you will need to unbolt the bumper. On '88 and older trucks,
this means removing the valance and the four bolts holding the bumper on
to the frame. Also, there is one bolt on each side which ties the plastic
bumper end to the fender that needs to be removed as well. On '89 and
newer trucks, the valance will need to be removed. Once this is done,
just remove the bolts holding the bumper to the frame. Then, leave the
bumper attached to the body. After the body has been lifted, you can then
insert the special bumper brackets.
Preparing the bed to be lifted: The bed is quite a bit easier than the
cab. First, you will need to locate the wiring harnesses leading to the
parking lights. Remove the small clips holding this in place so that
there is enough slack in the harness to lift the bed. On our 1986 Toyota
p/u, the gas line was long enough, but the return vent hose had to be
lengthened. For now, you can just remove one end. The 1990 Toyota did
not need require this modification.
Okay, now that everything has been prepped, it's time to lift it! I
highly recommend lifting the bed first, because it's lighter and easier
than the cab. Remove the four bolts holding one side down, and loosen the
other four. DO NOT remove the other four. You want them to keep the bed
from moving around. With this done, lift up the bed, and insert the four
blocks. Once all four are roughly in position, go back, and insert each
bolt. Finish by loosely threading the nuts on. Then, repeat this on the
other side. Once the bed is lifted, (with all of the bed bolts fairly
loose) it will need to be lined up with the cab. Once this is done,
tighten all eight bolts, re-secure the wireing, and install the longer
vent hose (if applicable).
There is one other optional thing that you may want to do. Most kits
contain metal spacers which need to be spot welded to either the bed or
the frame. These are a good idea if you plan to carry a lot of stuff in
the bed. So far, we have run without them and haven't had any problems.
As a side note, the bed can be lifted with people or a jack. I prefer
getting a few friends to help with this, but a jack works fine. If you
use a jack, be careful not to bend the bed. Lift the bed from up
underneath the quarter panels. Don't place the jack on the edge of the
body. It will bend.
Lifting the cab is very similar, except it is heavier, and cannont be
lifted much more than 3.25" without breaking something. I prefer to use a
jack for the cab because it is much more controlled than people. Also,
it's a lot easier. When lifting it with a jack, we found it easiest to us
two large pieces of wood in a `T' shape. If you just put one piece of
wood on end, you may bend the body. Also, be sure to put the wood behind
the rocker panel edge, so it's pushing up on the underside of the floor.
When you lift it, do it slowly. There will probably be a lot of creaking
noises when doing this, don't worry about that, but keep your ears and
eyes open for things that may not have enough slack. Also, make sure the
shifters are in a position that the body won't bind up against them.
When lifting the drivers side, the steering shaft that you unbolted will
fall off. This is a good thing, don't worry about it. With the cab lined
up, and all of the six bolts tightened, it is time to put everything back
together. First, you will need to extend the steering shaft. Depending
upon the kit, this can be done two ways. On our 1986 truck, the kit
recomended drilling out the two pins that hold the steering shaft together
(it's a two piece shaft). Use a 1/8" bit. With these out, remove the
rubber end cap. Place one half of the shaft in a vice, and then place a
punch or cold chisel inside the hole that was formerly plugged with the
cap. Use a hammer to drive the inner shaft about 1.2" out of the outer
shaft. The instructions should give a more accurate number. Then, drill
a new hole, using the existing holes in the outer shaft through the inner
shaft. Use a hammer to drive a pin through the holes. As I recall, this
hole needs to be drilled with an 1/8" bit. Be careful: we used a drill
press, and still went through about 4 bits. The hardest part is removing
the existing pins. This can be done with a hand drill if you don't have
access to a drill press, but it's more difficult. You don't really need
to put in new pins, but don't try welding or large bolts to hold the
shafts in place; this shaft is designed to collapse in the case of an
accident.
On our 1990 Toyota, the kit came with an approximately 1.2" extension that
fits in the center of the lower rag joint. This just requires unbolting
the old rag joint, inserting the extension, and using the supplied longer
bolts. It took us a long time to get this unbolted, but if finally came
apart. Don't be afraid to really bear down on those bolts.
With the shaft lengthended, place it back on the truck, but don't bother
tightening the bolts that clamp it in place. Because of the increased
angle, the lower mounting point for the steering column may need to be
lowered. I don't recall whether we lowered the one in the 1986 truck, but
in the 1990, the kit included a new bracket that lowers the firewall side
of the steering column.
Next, you will need to bolt on all the ground straps. The one by the
battery can be bolted in a higher (existing) hole on the engine block. The
rest use extensions. Also, the radiator will need to be bolted down,
using the radiator drop brackets. Since the radiator remains in a stock
position with respect to the engine, the fan shroud does not need
trimming. The bumper bolts back on using the supplied brackets. On the
1988 and earlier models, these brackets usually don't fit very well, and
are under a lot of leverage. This is one aspect of the kit that doesn't
work very well. On the 1990, the bumper brackets went on easily and
worked well.
The only other thing that really needs to be dealt with, is the shifter.
Because the body is higher, the shifter will run into the body. On 1987
and earlier models, you will need to trim the body to get 5th and reverse.
On 1988 and newer you will need to trim the left side to get 1st and 2nd.
Perhaps the easiest way is just to heat the base of the shifter and try
bending it. We've always just trimmed the body using tin snips and a
small hacksaw instead. The way we have done it so far: Remove all boots
and brackets. Using a hacksaw, trim away the body so that there is more
than enough room to shift into all gears. Then, place the metal trim ring
(shaped like an `8') on the body, and trim that similarily. Next, place
just the outside boot back in the bracket and try shifting. If there is
any biding, try popping the bottom of the boot inside out. This helps
to relieve some of the binding. If it still binds up, try trimming some
more. On our trucks, we have only had room for one shifter boot (in stock
form, there are two or three to help reduce noise, ect.) This (and the
bumper) have been the only real problems that we have had with body lifts.
My 1987 that I bought second hand had a 2" body lift already installed,
and did not have any trimming around the shifter, and all of the boots
were in tact. I'm unsure if they bent the shifter or if the 2" body was
just small enough that no trimming was necessary. It shifted fine.
Some people worry about the shifter being too short, and actually lengthen
the shifter. I personally feel that that is a waste of time because it
makes the shifter have a longer throw. After about one week you don't
even notice that the shifters are lower.
With that done, re-install the carpet and seat, double check to make sure
all grounds have been extended/reconnected. Also, spin the fan just to
make sure that there is plenty of clearance. Once everything checks out,
start it up and you're done.
There is one other thing that you may want to do; a body lift tends to
make large gaps between the body and frame. Up front, you may want to
make some kind of gaurds to protect the engine compartment; if you don't,
the engine compartment tends to get dirty real quick. I've seen these
made out of everything form diamond plate to real HD tarp. If you do
this, make sure that you use something really heavy duty. I ran some very
heavy duty clear plastic stuff on my truck, but it only lasted for about a
week, and it was noisy too. You want to use something that is both heavy
and heavy duty.
As you can see, this is actually a bit more time consuming than some
people make it out to be. I have known people who have just used a fork
lift, and not bothered to do *anything* else. The guy I talked to who did
this (on a Bronco II) said, "yeah, it was really easy, we just took out
the bolts, and used a forklift to lift the body up." I asked if he's had
any problems. His response, "well, not really. I started it up, and the
fan and shroud blew up.other than that, no." I checked his steering, and
it was *very* loose. Also, I suspect that some of the ground straps are
just about ready to break. If you're going to do a body lift, do it
right. Expect to spend anywhere from 6 hours to three days doing the
lift.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
The article on installing a body lift on a mini truck was very interesting.
When I bought my '83, it had a 3" body lift already installed. I have no
idea how long it has been there, but I have had a few problems show up that
I think were related to the lift, and might be worth looking at if you have
a lift, or are considering one.
1. Starter motor power lead. The heavy wire straight from the battery to
the starter broke right at the starter. Luckily, the grease build up on
the frame prevented a short from blowing up my battery - check for slack.
2. Heater hose air bubbles. With the heater valve and hoses higher than the
top of the radiator, I had to put in a T-fitting with a thread-on cap in
the highest hose to allow all the air to be removed from the system and get
good flow to the heater.
3. Gas input hose. Even though a 3" extension had been spliced in to the
line, it was under stress and cracked. I replaced it with 2" diameter gas line
that was a little big, but with new clamps it tightened up fine.
4. The shifter boot. The installer of the lift tore up the floor mat, cut out
a bunch of sheet metal, and left out the boots completely. I finally made a
boot that kind of works from some neoprene, but I'm still looking for new
floor mats and a better boot.
5. Shift lever overlap. I don't know if the lift had anything to do with it,
but the transfer case lever and the shift lever crossed, and shifting the
transmission from 1 to 2 would knock the transfer case out of 4-low until I
bent the transfer case lever about 45 degrees, and out of the way.
6. Front bumper mounting. The brackets were flimsy, and the one on the
driver's side was not there due to interference with steering box. Still need
a good solution for that one too.
7. Gaps between frame and body in wheel wells. These are ugly and messy.
I just got some rubber fillers from Northwest Off Road for ~$50. I haven't
installed them yet, but they look pretty tough.
8. Wiring to the engine from the body. All the wires from the body to the
engine for ignition and emissions junk are too short. The clamps that held
them to the body were removed, and they are all just dangling loose in the
engine compartment. I need to fasten them in some day. (Hoses to heater were
removed from their clamps, too.)
Other than that, everything seems OK - I wonder why my steering wheel needs
to be straigtened after excessive off-road pounding. I'm afraid something
is coming out of a splined joint, turning a few degrees, then going back in,
but I can't see anything obvious, and I'm trying not to worry about it.
Barney
_______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Mar 1997 13:49:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: restoration question?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Tue, 18 Mar 1997, David Akers wrote:
>
> How are you all doing? I have an 88 4Runner with the V6 and 131k miles
> with no blown head gasket (knock on wood). I plan on taking the body off the
> frame. I was wondering if anyone out there had any experence in doing this
> kind of thing and could maybe give me some pointers on how to do it. I would
> greatly appreciate it.
I haven't done the cab, but we did the bed last summer. Basically, just
unhook the wiring, gas filler/vent, and undo the eight body bolts. It's
not too bad, and can be lifted by two people (though it is sort heavy).
The cab would be harder, I'd say strip out the interior (or at least the
seats and carpet, which is real easy), and pull the shifter boots. Unhook
all the ground straps, unbolt the shifter knobs, unhook the steering
u-bolt deal (their's a clamp for the splined shaft), and unhook the
radiator and front bumper.
If you plan to leave the engine in, it may be easier to remove the bed
first, then the front fenders/hood/front clip, and just slide the cab
back/the front clip forward. Also, the front fender liners are
glued/cauked (sp) to the cab. Oh yeah, their are six cab mounts total:
four on the cab, and two on the fron clip.
Ah crap, just re-read your post. Well for a 4Runner, I'd probably unbolt
the front clip from the cab, and then slide the cab back and off the
chassis. don't forget to remove the shifters.
Hope this helps a little bit.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Mar 1997 12:17:17 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: restoration question?
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
This will be quite an undertaking on a 4Runner. I've removed my be by myself
using motor cycle tie downs and eye-hooks in the ceiling of my garage.
But the 4Runner since it is all one piece will have to be removed all at
one time and it is going to be quite heavy.
I suppose I'd disconnect everything from the truck, steering column,
gas tank filler hose, all electricals (front and rear). Then I'd buy
LOTS of concrete blocks and use several small hydraulic jack with block
of wood on the ends of their shafts and jack up the body in multiple points
(2-front, 2-side, s-rear). Then once I had the truck high enough to where
I could roll the frame out from under it(which would have to QUITE
high). I'd one at a time move/remove each of my side and rear mounting points
to where I could get the frame out from uunder it. That's about the best
I can come up with, that complete body of the 4Runner is going to be quite
heavy and large ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 19:53:05 -0400 (EDT)
From: JCVR4@aol.com
Subject: Truck with 3"body and 3"suspension lift
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I am looking at a 90 truck with a 3" & 3" lift. Is there anything that i
should be aware of reguarding the lift itself. I don't really like the Idea
of using a bodylift and in this one, i guess, when the shifter cable (it is a
5 speed) was legthened it was not done right or something because there is a
good sized hole going through the floor to the ground right at the edge of
the shift boot. I don't think that this is normal and the owner is not the
one who installed the lifts...he said that when he bought it it was not there
then he said something about a screw that is supposed to be there...Is this a
major problem..is it fine the way it is (the only thing is a whole bunch of
noise comes in through it)...or is it a minor repair?
Thanks
Joey
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 1997 21:11:11 -0500
From: Chris & Nicki Yorke
Subject: Truck with 3"body and 3"suspension lift
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
What you are talking about is the hole where the shifter goes through
the body to the trans I assume. When you raise a truck with a body lift
there are some things that people dont think about and this is one of
them. We get them in the shop all the time where they didnt make any
mods to ther shifter itself. you should be able to replace the boot
fairly easily, but at the same time you need to heat up the shifter and
bend it so it does not hit on the body of the truck. Its not hard to
remove at all just get the boot out of the way and you can look at it
for a couple of minutes and figure it out. It is just to hard to explain
in on a computer.
Chris
yorke@bellsouth.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:53:13 -0800
From: "CONRAD"
Subject: Toy
To:
My question is i know that you have 35's on your 92, but what lift and
wheels and what other goodies do you have on it?
I saved my last answer to this question. Here tis:
Most of my lift is in the form of a 4 inch body lift.
HEY, WAIT. HEAR ME OUT!
I did the mods in Iceland. The truck was set up for deep snow trips and
running on the glaciers over there. Articulation was not a concern. I was
going to do a suspension lift but my Icelandic friends, own their own 4x4
shop, talked me out of it. You can't get any better than the stock Toy
suspension for ride and handling. As I said, suspension travel is not a
concern in the deep snow. For the summer time there is no Rubicon type
rock crawling. All I needed was ground clearance. Added to that was the
fact that I knew I would be bringing it back to Alaska with me, and the
conditions would be much the same. With this lift I can clear 36x16.50s
with no problem. If I was to put the heavy duty torsion bars in I could
run 38s. With the 35s I run the torsion bars at stock height. For the
36s I could do the same. For the 38s I would have to crank them up about
2 inches. For the back, I have coils to go over the leaf springs. They
add about 2/12 inches. Now, on to the body lift. It is not your typical
out of the box American lift. This one was custom all the way. In the
front wheel well, toward the rear, is a body mount. This was cut off of
the frame, and moved up 4 inches. At the same time, it was modified so
it would not protrude so far forward. This was critical for clearance
for the 38s. All other mounts were lifted in the normal fashion, but a
bit differently than the standard body lift. Steel tubing (pipe) of the
correct diameter was cut to 3 1/2 inch lengths. 1/4 inch plate was
welded to the ends to bring the total length to 4 inches. Prior to
welding the plate, a hole was drilled in the center of each plate, and
a nut was welded onto what would become the inside. The mounts are held
in place with two bolts each, one from the top, one from the bottom.
This is MUCH more stable than the single long bolt used in the commercial
kits. All of the appropriate shafts, hoses etc. were lengthened as
required. The radiator was moved down. The front bumper was not only
raised, but also moved forward. I have custom made Icelandic fiberglass
flares (look good enough to be stock). The fender wells were cut out to
fit the 38s. The front bumper was moved forward so it would blend in with
the new fender contour. The holes exposed in the wheel wells were covered
with rubber.
I did not like body lifts when I first got to Iceland. After hearing
their explanation of why a body lift would be good, and seeing how they
did them, I am a convert! If you don't need mega suspension travel, and
do the body lift correctly, it does have some advantages. Lower cost,
lower center of gravity. It looks great, rides great, and can fit 38s
if I so choose. Don't get me wrong, I am not against suspension lifts.
In fact, I am going to do a spring over on my 79 FJ40. My FJ 60 has a
spring over with an additional 6 inches of suspension lift for a total
of 12 inches. That's the way I chose to fit the 38s on it. Had I known
about the Icelandic body lift before I did all the suspension mods, I
probably would have used less suspension with a mild body lift. Both
have their advantages. It just depends on your needs, and the size of
the pocketbook!!
Hope this was a bit helpful,
Other stuff: For rims I am using custom backspaced 10 inch Eaton (?) steel
with 2 valve stems per wheel. I had them made for my FJ60 back when it was
smaller. Backspacing is, if mine old mind remembers correctly, 3 inches.
Big Yellow steering stabilizer (from JC Whitney for $28.00!!). ARB in the
back, 5.29 gears. IFS truss, idler arm truss. Bilstien (sp?) shocks.
PIAA driving/fog combos. I think they are 940s or 960s. LC Engineering
cat back system, on the waiting list for their smog legal header.
Grill/brush guard. That's about it. Not the biggest and badest, but with
the Icelandic flares it is certainly one of the best looking. Won't take
me everywhere my FJ60 will, but it comes real close!
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851,conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
69 FJ40, 79 FJ40, both stock
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 1997 10:18:12 -0400
From: Philippe Maier
Subject: Body lift
To: Deo@Guittard.com, Toy4x4@tlca.org
Hi Deo,
I have a Trailmaster 3" extruded aluminum body lift on my '90 4Runner.
You can also get them in graphite but I was told that the aluminum
holds up better to abuse.
Things that have to be modified for a body lift:
- steel brake lines (I just stretched the coiled sections in the engine
compartment to account for 3" of lift)
- lengthen steering shaft
- modify firewall grommet for steering shaft (hole in firewall
has to be lowered)
- brackets made to raise front bumper (I left mine in the stock
position, leaves a 3" gap between it and grill)
- valance on front bumber must be modified to clear front frame
cross member
- fan shroud must be modified/removed or rad and shroud have to be lowered
- gas tank hoses have to be extended (I used a steel pipe insert to extend
fill hose, heater hose for vent hose)
- rear bumper - no problem, connected to body not frame
- front factory mud flaps - modified to clear body mount on frame
- gear shift levers (manual,auto,tfr case) - may have to be lengthened,
holes enlarged
- fuel lines may required lengthening
A lot more work than a simple suspension lift, eh ! (I'm Canadian, can you
tell) I am against body lifts because of the extensive mods. I only did it
to fit a V8/700R4 combo. Otherwise, I would stick with a mild suspension
lift such as coils and HD torsion bars if you haven't already done so. As
for a price on the lifts, don't know/can't remeber. Most guys up
here use stacks of hockey pucks ! REAL CHEAP ! ....... Phil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 22:23:49 -0500 (CDT)
From: pelland@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Body lift
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I just completed a body lift on my 1994 pick-up with a 22re engine. Overall
it is easier than the instructions lead you to believe. But I do have a few
questions for the experts.
i never found the ground wires mentioned in the instructions. Nothing that
looks like I should use the supplied steel bars to attach a GROUND STRAP?
There are two wire bundles that connect to the frame. One need the battery
and one off the alternator. They were attached with plastic caps/clips onto
brass pieces of stamped metal that are bolted to the frame.
Currently these wire bundles are hanging loose. Was there a ground thru
those brackets somehow? I cannot see enough of the plastic thing to tell.
Overall it was very easy two hours for the bed, and 4 hours for the cab
working alone. Only problem Is that my steering wheel got turned a little in
the process so now it is crooked. Probally .5 hours to fix once I am rested.
BTW I did not need to make any adjustments to the shifter levers.
I used Downeys 2" kit.
Mike Pelland
http://www2.netcom.com/~pelland/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 23 Oct 1997 16:23:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: 4Lo pops out of gear.help me
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-10-23 15:59:29 EDT, you write:
>
> When I am descending a really steep hill and I am only using the engine to
> slow me down in 4-Lo, the 4-Lo pops out of gear into neutral. It hasn't
> done this yet while going up a hill but suddenly popping into neutral
> while going down a hill is scarry enough. I am getting ready to look
> inside the transfer case. Any ideas on what I should look for?
You said it in your Sig:
> , 3"body lift.
That is your problem. I had to do this to a friend's truck with a body lift.
This causes the 4 Lo lever to hit the body. You have 2 options:
- - Trim the body to let the lever stay in place
- - Have the lever bent/welded to clear the body
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:56:50 -0800
From: "Roger Brown P.E."
Subject: Body Lift
To: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Brian wrote:
>>
Just a Question for those that have installed Body Lifts & Poly body mounts -
How easy did the bolts come out? Any breakage or need for replacements?
I've been thinking of installing Poly body mounts on my '85 4Runner, and was
thinking it might be a real pain on a 12 year old truck.
Anyone have any thoughts on the pros/cons of the poly body mounts?
<<
I put poly mounts on my 85 4Runner last summer. Without a doubt, the best $50
I've put into the truck. It cured the side-to-side shudder felt when hitting
even small bumps. The ride is much more solid and I think it is quieter as
well.
In my case, the bolts came off fine for the most part. I soaked the nuts down
with WD-40 for a few times prior to removal. One rear mount was missing on my
truck and the two front bolts were undersized, bent and rusted (had been added
by prior owner when installing new front bumper). I replaced my bolts with
standard threads and nylock nuts because I couln't find any metric hardware of
the right size to replace the missing pieces. If you get the standard size a
bit bigger than the metric bolt, you can press the bolt into the top body
washer and it'll keep the bolt from turning. You can get to all the inside
bolts by lifting the carpet and pulling the large plastic caps (one in the
front foot-well, one behind the front seat, one under the back seat and one in
the back of the cargo area.
- --
Roger Brown, P.E. mailto:rogerb@sgi.com
+1.650.933.1898 (vmail) +1.650.932.1898 (fax)
http://reality.sgi.com/rogerb/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 08:25:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: 4 Runner Suspension INFO
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Jeff Tamulis wrote:
> Get a 3" body lift for your 4Runner, and crank your torsion bars up 1
> inch or so and a nice 2" shackle in the back. It will make your 4Runner
> no longer have that "saggy butt" syndrome, and it won't effect your
> ride, and you can install 33's without rubbing at all. (I had a 2" body
> lift and cranked up bars with no rubbing). Its a heck of a lot cheaper.
>
I would have to dissagre w/ the 3" body lift...
1. You get NO increase in ground clearance.
2. You will have to cut holes in your fire wall, and it will be noisy,
because the firewall may never seal again.
3. Your steering shaft u-joints will be stressed.
4. Capable suspension and lockers with smaller tires 31", 32's will do much
better than huge balloons with sucky suspension.
5. A 2" susp. lift, 1" body, and some minor trimming can work w/ 33's.
Increase your travel before skyjacking the darn thing.
A 1" body lift is recommendable, 2" max.
Jon - jbrandt@csus.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:19:42 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: 4 Runner Suspension INFO
To:
>
>
>On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Jeff Tamulis wrote:
>
>> Get a 3" body lift for your 4Runner, and crank your torsion bars up 1
>> inch or so and a nice 2" shackle in the back. It will make your 4Runner
>> no longer have that "saggy butt" syndrome, and it won't effect your
>> ride, and you can install 33's without rubbing at all. (I had a 2" body
>> lift and cranked up bars with no rubbing). Its a heck of a lot cheaper.
>>
> I would have to dissagre w/ the 3" body lift...
>1. You get NO increase in ground clearance.
huh? Yes you do, the point is to fit the larger tires which will give you
the ground clearance, who says 3", 2" works well...
>2. You will have to cut holes in your fire wall, and it will be noisy,
I don't have any holes in my firewall, why cut holes?
> because the firewall may never seal again.
>3. Your steering shaft u-joints will be stressed.
Something will be stressed no matter what. If the lift is done from a
suspension lift, the angles on the drag link, etc will be increased. There
is less affect from the body lift than a suspension lift..
>4. Capable suspension and lockers with smaller tires 31", 32's will do much
> better than huge balloons with sucky suspension.
Stock springs etc. will articulate much better than the majority of the
stiff lift kits. Those balloons will get your axles over the obstacles,
there is no substitute for large tires ( I would never give up my 35's!).
>5. A 2" susp. lift, 1" body, and some minor trimming can work w/ 33's.
Hmm, depends on your style, my 33's rubbed with a 4" suspension lift and a
2" body lift. My 35's still rub with the 4" suspension lift, 2" body lift,
and lift shackles front and rear.
>
>Increase your travel before skyjacking the darn thing.
>A 1" body lift is recommendable, 2" max.
>
If your tires rub now, the body lift will increase travel. I think the best
is a combo of the two, and a two inch body lift is usually a better idea.
The body lift gets the body up a bit and allows better mounting of the rear
bumper and nerf bars that will protect the vehicle from the obstacles. Think
about it, what usually hits? For most it is the rear bumber, the body lift
will allow you to raise that up. Next to hit is the axles, the taller tires
will help there. To each his own but my method is a combo of the two.....
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\
Brandon Miller
Sacramento CA
email - miller@csus.edu
home page - http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb
/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:54:21 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: 4 Runner Suspension INFO
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brandon,
You're tight, you don't have much chance of avoiding rubbing, no matter
what, with your mega travel solid front axle. Isn't the steering shaft
pushed out-of-center, through the firewall w/ a body lift? Maybe I'm
wrong, I don't have a body lift my self. Your right about big tires
helping, no doubt about that. Lockers help more, if you had to choose.
Its good to hear everyone's opinion!
Jon
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 17:24:11 -0800
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: 4 Runner Suspension INFO
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
No, when the 2" body lift when on I suppose the u-joints on the column took
up a bit more angle but the column has a slip joint to account for any
difference in length. There were no holes cut and no modifications to the
firewall. You are right about the noise though, but not in the firewall.
What it does affect is the shifters (manual anyway). Since the cab comes
up the throw on the shifters will hit the cab unless you cut away some.
So there is some custom work and if you do not do it right you will have
noise. I made new boots and filled the gap with a waterproof insulation.
> Maybe I'm
> wrong, I don't have a body lift my self. Your right about big tires
> helping, no doubt about that. Lockers help more, if you had to choose.
>
Everything helps, no doubt. Not to say a stock vehicle can not go where I
can, they just take longer and have a higher risk of damage. I ran the
rubicon in my stock longbed with 31's and other than burning up a one day
old clutch there was no damage. It can be done but I am glad I don't need
a spotter for the whole trail and I no longer need to pile rocks to get
over things. I run the trail in the dark without spotters now ;)
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:41:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: 4 Runner Suspension INFO
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I would have to dissagre w/ the 3" body lift...
> 1. You get NO increase in ground clearance.
You get 'better' increases with the suspension lift (under the t-case in
particular), but under the diffs... shoot, either way it's about the
same.
> 2. You will have to cut holes in your fire wall, and it will be noisy,
> because the firewall may never seal again.
This isn't always the case.. actually.. I've done 5 b-lifts before, and
never had to cut up the firewall. ..I did have to make some cuts for
the shifters though.
> 3. Your steering shaft u-joints will be stressed.
Maybe, but as long as you've got power steering, I think the angles are
still just fine. I've never had any probelm with that stuff wearing out
anyway. Also, I'd rather deal with problems in the steering shaft angle
(what problems??) than steering geometry things that can come up with a
big suspension lift.
> 4. Capable suspension and lockers with smaller tires 31", 32's will do
> much
> better than huge balloons with sucky suspension.
Not necesarilly.. Well, you've got me on the lockers bit! but I've got a
rancho 3", and believe me, what little it has helped is practically
negligable!! If your into crawling and twisting up your suspension, a
stock IFS with the sway bar unhooked and the droop bumpstops modified
will probably out-twist a rancho kit with the sway bar on. I tested
mine, and only got a TOTAL of 5" of articulation up front.. that's 2.5"
of travel per side. Good thing I can get ~16+ in the rear.. (on the
trail--I can only get about a foot on the ramp).
I've said this before but.. body lifts aren't the best form of lift out
there, but here's why they *can* be better than a lift on a IFS truck:
First off, you get more room for tires without cutting the fenders
(hurts resale) and without spending a lot (my trailmaster 3" was 120
bucks at Les Schwab).
You get added lift, body clearance and tire clearance without hurting
your stability as much as a suspension lift.
You don't have to worry about the ride being stiffer or different, or
the driveshaft angles or the steering geometry.
And to add to this, it makes it a whole heck of a lot easier to work on
the truck, with the exception of a couple of the carb adjustment screws
that are harder to get at with the fender 3" higher than it was before.
The biggest drawbacks that I've found so far with the b-lift:
*You really need to get some new splash gaurds for the fenders
*The stock truck has a soft bushing between the frame mount and the body
mount.. with the body lift, you've got a hard graphite or aluminum 'puk'
laying strait against the body. I haven't had any problems so far, but
I imagine it's harder on the body mount.
*The shifter's can sometimes be a PITA, and in some cases you need to
run fewer shifter boots, which means a bit more noise.
*The bumpers 'lifts' are usually crap at best, and won't work with any
'real' aftermarket winch bumpers.
*They don't look as good.
A body lift may not be the best looking lift in the world, but for a lot
of people's needs, they work just great. And in most cases you don't
really get enough extra travel with the suspension lift to warrant the
700++ you'll spend on it. I've got the rancho 3" (more like 2.5"!) kit
and skyjacker rear springs, and believe me, I'd rather have the 1200
bucks. Say what you want, but a toy with 33's, a 2-3" body maybe a
1/2" of t-bar cranking and some longer shackles in the back will
probably go anywhere (an IFS) one with a 3" or 4" suspension lift will.
A big exception would be if you've got that 14" travel WCOR kit.. or a
solid axle.
If you do go with a bodylift only, you might want to seriously consider
one of the frame braces for the back of the a-arm mount. Another
friendly word of advice.. if you live in an area where you'll be running
the hubs locked for a few months out of the year, don't crank the
torsion bars up, or if you do, keep it under an inch. Every time we
touch our t-bars, we get a blown cv-boot about 6 months later. The
funny part though, is that they usually go in the middle of summer when
the hubs aren't locked as much. Dunno why.
Good driving helps too, but I've gone places that my friend's solid
axle, with new 35's, 3.5" springs and longer shackles, and lockers front
and rear couldn't go! And here I am driving an IFS truck with stock
gears, 35's, open diffs, and.. oh no, a big body lift. BTW, mine is WAY
more stable than his on the side hills! (course I've got ten inch rims
and he has 8's, and the solid axles are narrower..)
I know this is getting really long winded, but I hope this helps a few
of you out. I also hope I haven't convinced anybody that a b-lift is
the 'end-all, be all' of lifts (it's not!), but that it's a good
affordable option. Not the best, but $ for $, better than most will
admit. If you personally think b-lifts just look too corny, hey, that's
your opinion, and I kinda agree with you! A 2" b-lift is almost
unnoticeable though.. heck, Scott W., how long did you have your
4runner before you found out about yours?
_______
Jonathan Albrecht __. /_/__|__\__
albr9619@uidaho.edu __/__|\___ |_.--.__,--;
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619 :--.__|.--.|,---- ~'(__)'`(__)
`'`'`''`'`'`''``'`'`'`'`''`'`'``'`
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Mar 1998 00:21:10 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Shifter arm on 89 Runner
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I finally got around to putting on the Trail Master 3 inch body lift,
> still have some tweaking to do like hanging front Bumper.
My trailmaster front bumper bracket was totally wrong. I just ended up
bolting the bottom bumper bracket mount to the upper frame mount (so two
bolts total) and it seems to work fine.
> With the new lift the angle of the shifter arms are changed and with
> the 45 degree bend in the gear arm it is imposible to shift the gears
> with the dust boots on. Is this the arm I am suppose to bend? Can I
> just by an after market arm and if so from whom?
I didn't have a real torch (just a butane, which was worthless) so I had
to cut to fit. Basically, took off all the boots, and made two ~1 or
1.5" long cuts in the tranny tunnel, then folded the entire section
(where 1st and 2nd are) inwards and out of the way. Next I put the
metal '8' ring on (no boots) and cut that up until the shifters cleared.
Lastly, I put just *one* set of rubber boots back in the metal ring, and
popped the first 'ring' of the boot inside out (so the top is lower than
usual). To help cut down on noise I packed the vinyl boot covers with
cotton pillow stuffing (had some left over from a speaker install) and
put the shifter console back on. It works fine.
> Another thing in all the instructions that I read it said that the
> steering arm or shaft would have to be adjusted to strecth further but
> mine wasnt and seems to work ok is that alright or will I be trying to
> make a turn one day and the car will just go straight?
No, it probably won't do that but.. you should probably loosen both
clamps on the upper and lower u-joints to relieve any extra tension in
there. If the shaft is still long enough, then I guess you're fine. On
mine, I think it would have reached, but boy, I probably would have had
only a 1/4" of splines in each u-joint clamp, which if you ask me, isn't
enough for *me* to feel safe. You never know, some day the ps pump may
go out, you may run out of gas or the ps belt may break. With no power
assist, you might pop the shaft out of the u-joint clamp, or end up
stripping off the splines. Not too safe if this happens at 60mph on a
twisty road...
It's also possible that both of the pins in the shaft may have broken
(thus allowing the shaft to extend) when you did the lift. If this is
the case, then your A-okay. It says in the instructions to drill those
out (with the shaft still in the truck). I did it on the bench in a
vice, which for me, was easier.
_______
Jonathan Albrecht __. /_/__|__\__
albr9619@uidaho.edu __/__|\___ |_.--.__,--;
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619 :--.__|.--.|,---- ~'(__)'`(__)
`'`'`''`'`'`''``'`'`'`'`''`'`'``'`
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Apr 1998 22:50:39 -0500
From: Robert Stein
Subject: Clutch hose
Well, Learned something new today. While headed for the store this a.m.,
I blew out my rubber hose that hooks up my clutch slave cylinder. After
messing with the firewall end < Toyota could have found a BETTER place
for this instead of right BEHIND the intake> I got the hose off and
realized the the person who had originally done the body lift DIDN'T
extend this piece of hose. Well, it finially couldn't take the strain,
or added tension, and sprung a leak. After searching the local parts
stores and NOT finding a replacement stock hose or anything we could
cross over from the Wagner brake book, I told the counter guy to let me
see a regular brake hose that goes from the body to the front caliper.
It was not only a match as far as fittings go but ALSO almost 2 1/2 "
longer , EXACTLY what I was looking for to compensate for the body lift!
Fit like a glove and PLENTY of slack now.
After getting the hose changed out, I guess the better flow DUMPED my
slave seals < NOT MY DAY> BUT an overhaul kit for it was only $11.50
including a new piston and I'm now back up and clutch is working better
than before !!!! I'm tickled **itless !!!
Hope this info helps anyone else out that does a body lift and need
to lenghten this hose < DON'T forget to do it !!! > BTW , the hose cost
me $13.00 so for about $25.00 I got everything back to better than new.
- --
Robert Stein
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 22 Sep 1998 22:52:25 -0500
From: Robert Stein
Subject: Re: Body lift
Ken,
MY advice to ANYONE who does a body lift on their truck is to be SURE
to lengthen your clutch slave line. If you have a standard shift truck
that is. The stock one might be long enough if you're only going with a
2" body lift, but trust me, a 3" lift will rip it in two in time and
just hope you're not out in the sticks. < I got lucky> As for a cheap
replacement, don't know about your year truck, but I used a stock `85
front brake line to replace mine. Think it cost about $5 - $7 as opposed
to $20+ for a fancy one....
Robert
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 12 Nov 1998 17:16:11 -0800
From: Robert Elsemore
Subject: 1 inch body lift
Gregory Buter wrote:
>im gonna install a 1 inch body lift next month. it is one of the 2inch
>kits that i will cut in half. it is for an 89 4runner and im wondering if
>i need to get new poly bushings/body mounts to replace the stock rubber
>ones. what do yall think?
I did the same thing this last August. I had a 2 inch kit from 4WPW (don't
remember the brand name) and cut 1/2 inch off each end to get down to 1 inch.
The center of the lift "block" is solid but has hollow chambers going out
towards each end. I wanted to keep the block as strong as possible so
decided to make twice as many cuts.
I ended up replacing the stock rubber bushings with the poly kit from
energy suspensions. Many of the stock rubber bushings were "ovaled"
out quite a bit on the inside where the metal sleeve goes.
I did not modify the steering column as specified in the instructions
nor did I have to relocate the radiator. The fan is much closer to the
bottom of the fan shroud, but has not touched under any circumstances so far.
I slightly adjusted/bent the bracket for my clutch slave line and everything
seems fine.
You will have to get all new bolts. The cheap ones supplied with the kit
will be too long and the stock ones will be too short. I went with 7/16
grade 8 bolts. The kit supplied bolts were smaller (like 3/8 inch) and
were ungraded if I remember right.
If I were to do it all over again, I would have one inch sections cut off
a solid aluminum rod (like 2.5 or 3 inch diameter. Whatever will fit into
the body mount areas) and drill holes in each one for the bolt to go through.
The supplied "blocks" were quite small in diameter and didn't seem to provide
a lot of surface area against the body.
You will need to buy all new bolts anyway, so I don't see any reason to go
with the complete kit if you are only lifting one inch.
- -Rob Elsemore, 85 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Nov 1998 18:55:04 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: 1 inch body lift
Just to keep the body lifts from a bad name, mine cost about $50 and came
with 1/2" bolts, I was able to toss the spacers and I had to drill out some
of the washers but I think they are pretty strong. A friend went out and
boutgh little bolts cause he didn't want to drill em, I thought the kit was
pretty good..
Why only an inch? Just seems like a lot of work for that..
You know an inch up does not really mean that much more tire clearance since
the body is going straight up, the wheelwell is not increasing by an inch..
-----------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Nov 1998 19:43:39 -0700
From: "David Eggleston"
Subject: Re: 2'' body lift bolt size
>
>Now I need to know the bolt length and diameter for the 2'' lift body
>lift bolts. It is an 82' toy longbed, exactly how many times is the body
>connected to the frame so I will know the number of pucks needed to lift
>the truck. i counted 14, is that the correct number? Also what type of
>nut do I need to go with the bolts?
>
I used 1/2" grade 5 bolts that were (I believe) 6" long for a 3" body lift
so 5" would probably be correct. The best thing I would say is to remove one
of the existing bolt and measure it and then add the required 2". Yes, there
are 14 attachment points, 6 for the cab and 8 for the bed. There are also 4
more points where the bed rests directly on the frame rail. They can be
found in the fenderwells. If you carry any kind of load, you should put
something there to fill the gap and support the center of the bed. As far as
nuts, I used grade 5 nylock nuts as well as a split-lock washer to keep
everything tight.
==============
David Eggleston
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:56:28 -0600
From: "Scotti, Chris L."
Subject: Body Lift on 95 4Runner Automatic
Well we completed most of the Body Lift on the 4Runner last weekend. I
decided to go ahead and do it as the way the rollcage and bumpers are
designed are dependent on it. A few questions have arisen though that I
wondered if anyone has addressed before. FYI: I have a Procomp 4" lift as
well as the 2" Body Lift. Thanks in advance for anyones advice!
1. I will be switching to an electric fan with a on/off switch in the cab
so I am considering just moving the radiator with the body so that the
bumper can go right up to the grill. Good/Bad Idea? Any suggestions on
what fan to use?
2. Transmission/TCase Considerations - We put in a spacer in the
transmission shift linkage that seems to work fine but we are having to
figure out some kind of bracket to make the x-fer case work...Any Ideas?
3. E-Brake lines-I really need to extend these. They are way too short and
are limiting suspension travel on the rear end. Any Ideas on where I can
get new ones and how long I should get em? I get a lot of travel and these
are actually functioning as limiting straps and are starting to rip - BAD
NEWS!
4. This on is more of an FYI - The spacer block for the steering was way
too big. We had to make one that was about an inch shorter that the one
that came with the performance accessories 2" Lift.
5. Body Bushings - I can't find any poly ones...I just used the stock ones
for now. 4WPW says they don't exist for my year and model.
6. Raising Gas tank - I would like to take advantage of the extra 2" and
raise the tank so I quit whacking it so hard...Anyone done this?
That's all I can think of...Thanks alot for all the advice so far on this
HUGE project and thanks again for your responses on this round of questions.
Chris Scotti
CW Computer Services
Cscotti@cwcomp.com
www.cwcomp.com
1995 Green 4Runner SR5 Soft-Top w/4"susp/2"body lift, 35"TSL's, ARB Rear &
EZ-Locker Front, Bobbed 6", XD9000I Hitch-Mounted Winch, Custom Bumpers and
Nerf Bars/Air Tanks, Lots of Lights & Techno Gadgets (Stereo, GPS, etc...),
(Some mods in Progress)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:48:23 -0800
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: Body Lift on 95 4Runner Automatic
> 3.E-Brake lines-I really need to extend these. They are way too short and
> are limiting suspension travel on the rear end. Any Ideas on where I can
> get new ones and how long I should get em?
I found that just cutting off with a torch the mount on the lower
control arms. This allow the cable to make a shorter rout to the drums.
I did this about 2 years ago for the same reason as you, as a wheel
drooped the parking brake would lock up because the cable was too short.
> 6. Raising Gas tank - I would like to take advantage of the extra 2" and
> raise the tank so I quit whacking it so hard...Anyone done this?
Well this is a problem. It's not so bad if you have a pickup but with
the coil suspension the right upper control arm basically prevents the
tank from being lifted. To lift the tank you would need to change to a
leaf suspension or make a smaller gas tank from scratch or replace the
upper links with a watts link suspension.
- --
Chris Geiger
------------------------------
Back to the top of this thread
Back to the top of the Suspension Threads Group
Back to the top of the Technical Discussion Groups
Back to the top of the Toy Thread Tree