Draglinks

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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:30:06 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett 
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Alcans

James Stevenson wrote:

>It's no so much the length as the angles. The idea on the drop draglinks
>is to correct the angles so that the attachment at the steering arm is
>parallel with the road. This means as the suspension moves the
>possibility of hitting the U bolts is far less. A simple solution is to
>flip the steering arm attachment ball. That raises the ball a couple of
>inches and reduces the angles to near stock.

The problem with this, which Jack Alford posted awhile back and I proved
it TWICE is, with the ball on top the new pressure on the steering arm 
stress the area between the rear two mounting bolts.  The two arms I had 
with the ball on top both broke in this area.

Ultimately with big travel you have to do this to stop hitting the U bolts 
and the spring.

This all depends on your spring pack thickness.  When I was running off
the shelf Nationals I needed the ball on top because my dropped drag
link end would bind on the u-bolts on compression.  Now with a spring
pack that is not as thick (u-bolts now lower)  I clear them just fine
with the ball on bottom.
The other problem with the ball on top is during compression the drag
link will now hit the frame.
Remember this is with a suspension that will use all of a 13 inch travel
shock.

As far as the length goes, whatever distance is between the ball joints
with the wheels straight ahead and the arm centred.

The length of the drag link really only effects the steering wheel
position and your left/right turning radius.  When you lift a vehicle
you change the length so that is why your steering wheel will be off
center.

Toyota Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader

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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 17:33:15 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett 
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Alcans

I know I have talked to Rob about this before but did you just talk to
Jason about the drop drag link? or did you ever talk to Kevin.

Kevin, the last time I saw his truck, was running the stock drag link
with 4 or 5 inch lift with the axle moved forward 1 1/2 inches.  This
new location of the axle makes of the difference of the lift and just
about keeps you steering wheel centered.

Toyota Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader

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Date: Wed, 03 Jun 1998 19:02:13 -0600
From: Rob Boyle 
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Alcans
Kevin was the one who sold me the drop drag link, and suggested that I 
get another one for a spare becuase my stock one would be to long to 
even limp off a trail. Kevin made no mention of bump steer, just that 
the stock one would be way too long with my springs drilled an inch 
forward. When I talked to Jason last night Kevin was with him. They  
avoided the subject when I asked about it not being too long ( I 
mentioned Marks setup, it can be seen on Tonys home page). They kept 
changing the topic too bumpsteer, and that this drop link was some 
kind of cure for it. If I was told that some people run the stock 
drag link with my spring set up I would have tried it before spending 
100$ on another one. 

On the subject of drag links, I think I am on to something with the
pitman arm. The most ideal angles are created when the pitman arm is
forward. If you center the pitman arm when the wheels are straight you
dont use the entire forward stroke of the pitman arm. You do use the
entire rear stroke though, the stroke that creates the worst angles. I
think ideally the pitman arm should be just shy of its forward stop when
the steering is maxed to the left and under max compression. Even on a
stock rig the pitman arm doesnt bottom out on its forward stop. I think
its also important that axle mounted steering stops bottom out before
the pitman arm does. 
 
Rob Boyle 85 4runner 225,000 miles Kayline soft top
Bronco 33-12.5's    Downey super clutch
4.88 gears with EZ lockers F&R
New 5" alcans for the front, drilled 1" forward

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Date: Fri, 05 Jun 1998 09:23:18 EST
From: "james stevenson" 
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Alcans

Tony Bartlett Wrote
> The two arms I had with the ball on top both broke in this area.

Sorry, Keep forgetting you have the 1st and 2nd gen steering arms. The 
3rd gen unit is much stronger and have never heard of these breaking. 
You are correct in that the earlier arms are weak. My suggestion is to 
put on a 3rd gen arm or weld in some extra steel to strengthen the arm. 
I have seen this done with good results but nowadays the 3rd gen arm is 
easier to do.

>This all depends on your spring pack thickness. (draglink contacting 
>ubolts)

Yes but as you add travel eventually you will hit the bolts. With the 
arm on top you do have to increase the bumpstop height to stop the arm 
hitting. But I would suggest if you have this kind of trave you should 
be looking at crossover steering to get that last inch

>The length of the drag link really only effects the steering wheel
> position and your left/right turning 

Also affects the angle of the draglink to steering arm. Yes the link 
needs to centre the steering that's a function of the length. My comment 
on the drop draglink was, that drop was to correct the angles at the 
steering arm. If your link does not contact the ubolts or bind in the 
ball just increase the length.

Rob Boyle Wrote
>They kept changing the topic too bumpsteer, and that this drop link
> was some kind of cure for it.

A drop draglink does not cure or help bump steer. Just correct the 
angles at the steering arm and provide a longer length to centre the 
wheel.
 
>On the subject of drag links, I think I am on to something with the
> pitman arm. The most ideal angles are created when the pitman arm
> is forward. If you centre the pitman arm when the wheels are straight
> you don't use the entire forward stroke of the pitman arm. You do
> use the entire rear stroke though, the stroke that creates the worst
> angles. 

The centre is the best location as it is on the lowest point on the arc 
of travel of the arm. The bump steer is created by the axle moving in a 
different arc the draglink. The best possible positions are the middle 
apex of the arc for both the arm and axle. This means stock height. 
Whenever the height increases so will the bumpsteer. To reduce the 
effect to a minimum you have 3 realistic options. First fit rack an 
pinion to the axle and do away with the tierod. Second change to a 
crossover or better still double crossover setup and last change the 
springs to full elliptic

James Stevenson (TonkaTuf)


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