Shock Absorbers
------------------------------
Date: 20 Jan 1997 08:45:39 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Measuring travel (was Toy4x
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:28 AM
OFFICE MEMO Measuring travel (wasM-I Date: 1/20/97
Jack Alford wrote:
>>OK, should I carry a tape measure along on the trail,
>
>Yes, carry a tape measure on the trail.
You can also use an old motorcycle trick for measuring shock compression
travel. Just put a nylon tie-wrap around the shock rod and slide it down
close to the shock body. As the shock moves, it will push the tie-wrap
up the rod and you will be able to see how much shock compression travel
you are using.
I also measure shock extension a similar way. I tie a string to the shock
eye on the rod end and let it hang down against the shock body. I wrap
a tie-wrap around the shock body pinching the string to the shock
body. Now as the shock extends, it pulls the string further out and
from this you can determine the shock extension you are using.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 18 Jan 1997 22:31:35 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Toy4x4@tlca.org
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
David Moore wrote:
>I am wondering what would be a good way to measure the travel on the rear
>of my truck. I have looked at the axle when it is articulating, and it
>looks pretty good to me. I have 4 in rear blocks, the rest of the parts
>are stock. the tires (33 in) at full compression are approx. 1/2 in from
>the fender. When it drops, the tire is completely below the body line.
>Is this normal? Would this be considered good travel?
That's a fair amount of travel, especially with stock springs ... you
could gain more compression by removing the overload leaf if you haven't
already, you generally loose about 1/2"-3/4" of lift when you remove the
overload leave but the suspension will compress much better ...
For the money you can't go wrong with just getting a set of rear
skyjacker 5" springs, then play with the leaves to get the lift/
stiffness you want ...
As for droop, with my old hybrid-skyjacker springs I could droop a good
bit below the body line in the rear, can't tell what these new springs
are going to do yet .... they should do much better though.
Here's a shot of me with a rear tire stuffed, a front drooping and
the pass. rear off the ground going up the lower part of trail #2
at Tellico:
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/travels/images/dr2.jpg
Those springs were just too stiff to get the rear to ever touch the
bump stop, it always came about an 3/4"-1" shy of touching it, and
those springs started life as 5" lift springs ... they were good
springs though, too bad I kinked 'em . all in the name of travel .
The easiest way I've found to measure travel is to measure the
distance from the bottom/center lip of the fender well to the center
of the tire/rim. That way even if the tire goes into the fender well
you can still measure to the center of the rim to the same point for
comparison.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 10:41:05 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: SkyJacker
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Ross wrote:
>Are the 5" Softride Skyjacker springs soft, do they articulate
>well? I saw the picture of you at /images?dr2.jpg, and I was impressed.
I think so, you saw the pictures, do you consider that good articulation ?
>Did you do anything to the springs?
Yes.
>Did you take out the overload in the rear?
I don't recommend doing this to a skyjacker pack without a
traction bar to prevent axle wrap or you'll kink the springs
and ruin them, I have a kinked set at home to prove this fact.
>I also saw the picture of it in your driveway (sideshot) and it
>seemed to sag in the back a bit, would a 1 inch block or a extended
>shackle help (I have both).
The driveway shot was when I first got the truck ALL put back together
after cutting out the IFS and doing alot of other stuff. I added a 3/4"
block and shackles that were 5.5" center-to-center and it sat level.
>Also what shock part numbers did you use?
Rancho 9012's front and rear , ~13.8" of shock rod, these shocks are
valved for multi-shock applications so they work well on light vehicles.
>How much is your front mount extended?
I assume you're asking how far is my upper mounting point extended
on my front shocks:
Well, I have to raise the hood to tighten the bolt that holds the shock
in it's mount. I cut a hole in the fender liner and moved some stuff
under the hood a bit to make room for the ends of the mounts which
stick just far enough through the fender liner to allow me to get a
bolt through the shock.
>How did you set up the rear shocks?
First a bit of necessary information, the Rancho 9012's have shock eyes
on both ends, not studs, and that's the only way they come.
I was in a bit of a hurry trying to make a big run last spring and
mounting my rear shocks was the last thing on my list to do, so I
made some measurements and made some mounts and welded them on without
pulling the bed off.
On the pass. side I made a little three sided tower out of 1/4" plate
and welded it to the side of the frame, it was quick and easy, looks
great too ! The problem with this mount, actually the mounts on both
sides was that I had fooled myself into thinking that I could use the BIG
mounting stud that came with the shocks as a bolt and the fact that the
shocks weren't EXACTLY vertical, a good weekend of hard wheeling and they
were vertical then, they bent my mounts over a bit to make themselves
vertical ... i.e. the forces in nature are far greater than those in
the driveway !
On the drivers side I did something nearly identical to the pass. side
but the mount was much taller since the shocks lean forward
and needed to be mounted at a point on the frame where the frame was
humping down to keep the angle of each shock the same.
I then pulled the bed off and bent my drivers side mount up straight and
added another gusset, got a piece of 6" Grade-5 1/2" all-thread type stuff,
(it isn't actually called Grade-5 when it's all-thread, it's got another
name that I can't remember right now). I took that 6" piece of all-thread
and some grade-5 nuts and some washers and bolted the piece of all-thread
to my re-inforced mount. I then took some more washers and nuts and used
them to locate the shock eye on the piece of all-thread so that the shock
was vertical. This setup has worked fine every since, which did include
my trip through the Rubicon last summer ...
Other potential problems: Jay and I discussed shock mounting for quite some
time before we mounted our shocks but after seeing my shock mounts bend
and from looking at the shocks mounted on the 1/4 elliptical sprung jeep
in this months Petersen's I realize how much I am asking of my rubber shock
bushings, I didn't use the poly ones that came with the shocks. Since
you are limited on the lower shock mount to the bolt on the u-bolt
clamping plate, unless you weld your own mount to the axle housing. What
really needs to be is that the shock eyes need to be running opposite
of each other so that the shock can rotate on the mounts instead of
just squishing the bushing causing the shock to lean under extreme droop.
Which is not the case when you duplicate the factory method of having both
shock eyes running parallel to the frame.
Potentially you could have just a bit more travel with less force
required to travel the same distance if you had the shock eyes turned
in opposite directions compared to having them both point in the same
direction.
At some point in the future I will pull my bed back off and remedy this
problem, I originally researched doing this to begin with but the mount
to hold the shock in such a manner was going to have to be quite complex
and I was pressed for time.
I'll see if I can't dig up some pics to scan in.
>Do you have stock bumpstops?
Yes.
>How is the high speed driving (75+)?
I drove from Ala. to California last summer going literally as fast
as my truck would go almost the whole time, which wasn't even the
speed limit in some states, I got up to 77 in Wyoming going downhill
one time ! 72 was my normal cruising speed, it was the point were
the truck didn't vibrate and I wasn't having to ask to much of
the little 22R spinning a set of 33's with a couple of hundred
pounds of camping gear in the back.
But the truck rode fine, you just have to realize that a truck with ~5" of
cumulative lift isn't a Ferrari and you have to give respect to high speed
corners and highway on/off ramps.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 09:14:00 -0800
From:
Subject: RS9000's...
To:
Kevin Valentine asked about the Rancho RS9000 shocks.
I have bought RS 9M's for my 90 Pickup, and I think they're great. The
first thing that I noticed was the improved ride quality on the softer
settings. I took them to the Laughlin Desert Challenge and ran the
course after the race. WOW! What a difference from stock shocks. I
could barely keep my foot off the throttle.
My only complaint is that in order to change the settings, you have to
get under the car (If you have varying weight loads, I recommend you
crank it up a little). I was going to buy the compressor from Rancho,
but my local distributor told me that there was a problem with the
rubber grommet that go from the air hose to the shocks themselves.
After about 500 miles of roughing it, they would tend to dry out, crack,
and lose pressure.
Bilsteins are good, but when you can dial in your shocks, why not spend
the extra dough (from the $49.95 models Bil's)?
JJuiliano@Fancypubs.com (J.R. Juiliano)
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 1997 15:47:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: RS9000's...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I agree completely. We've got a set of bilsteins on our '93 Chevy
fullsize, and while they are good shocks, I wish they were just a bit
stiffer. Even though they may be better shocks than RS9000's, I would
still rather have the RS9000's, just so that I could set it a bit stiffer.
Also, when carying a bunch of stuff, it's nice to be able to crank up the
back shocks. It's also nice to be able to stiffen up the ride/soften it
up as your tastes and driving habits change.
The one downside, (that I've experienced) is this: It seems like there
are a lot of times where we'll be driving down the road, and come to a
really nice, smooth, curvy section, and both me and my friend will be
wishing that they were on a stiffer setting...then half our later, we come
to a really bumpy section, and we both end up wishing that we could soften
them up.
It's not hard to adjust them--roughly twice as hard as locking your
hubs--no big deal, but you end up not messing with them very much.
I wish there compressor deal was cheaper and not so problematic..
Anybody ever try out those Doeshe Tech adjustable shocks?
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 Mar 1997 08:39:44 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: More thoughts on stuff
To: "Matthew Chapin" , "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:19 AM
OFFICE MEMO More thoughts on stuff Date: 3/5/97
matt877@juno.com (Matthew C Chapin) wrote:
>Does anyone know how to calculate what size shock to buy for a raised
>truck if your not exactly sure how much higher than stock it is raised?
Figuring the short dimension is easy. Just take a measurement at rest
and subtract the distance between the stops. I usually go about 1/2"
shorter to allow for stop compression.
Next, jack up the vehicle to see how much droop you get with the
shock disconnected. On leaf springs you may see this as the point
where you run out of spring/shackle length and the axle cannot
drop any more. Or.... you may have other limiting factors such as
tire interference or spring bind, etc. Get an approximate length
from this and then start checking for shocks of the appropriate
length in the Rancho (or whatever) catalog.
You may find a shock that matches your range well or you may have
to go thru a few iterations of comparing available lengths and
you travel movement.
Also, if you are cutting the dimension close on either compression
or extension, note also the effects on movement of the shocks
leaning forward or backward as their travel distances will be
different.
> How about letting me know where I can find a mail order company that has
>a catolouge and deals primarily w/ Toy. 4x4? I am also in need of the
>#'s for Downey, and NWOR.
> I read someones post about a shop in Calif. that makes beds called
>AutoFab(I think) Could I please have their address and/or phone number
>too? Thanks-- Matt
Here are some numbers for you:
AUTO FAB
10996 N. Woodside, Suites F,G&H
Santee, CA 92071
619-562-1740
619-562-6151 (fax)
DOWNEY
10001 S. Pioneer Blvd.
Santa Fe Springs, CA 90670-3221
310-949-9494
310-949-5718 (fax)
NORTHWEST OFF-ROAD SPEC.
P.O. Box 1617
Bellingham, WA 98227
206-676-1200
206-676-5401 (fax)
Hope his helps........
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
REDLINE MOTORSPORTS
1256 Cottonwood Circle
Corona, CA 91719
909-734-3765
909-734-3765 (fax)
'84-'88 fiberglass bed
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 Mar 1997 08:58:20 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Suspension throw
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:21 AM
OFFICE MEMO Suspension throw Date: 3/5/97
Eric Johnson wrote:
Subject: Suspension throw
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
snip
>Any ideas on the ways to increase the rear travel? Is there a good way to
>tell what my limiting factor is? I mean, it could be that the springs can't
>droop any further, or maybe its because the shocks can't extend any
>further. Are lower profile rear bumpstops available and advisable? (I'm
>still running 235s....)
To test for droop limit, disconnect the shock on one rear corner and find
a way to get the axle twisted up and that tire off the ground. A jack in
the garage will work fairly well but may be a little harder to work with.
What you want to do is see if your spring/shackle length is your limiting
droop factor. Under max droop check to see if the shackle is as far
forward as it can come. Once this length is used up, you're out of droop
travel and need to go to longer springs to get more length for increased
droop. At this time, also check to see if your current shock is letting
you drop as far as your spring can.
Under extreme droop conditions (with longer springs) you may find that
the tire (inside edge) on the compression side is touching the frame
and limiting droop on the opposite side. This is one of my current
problems.
To test compression you need to compress one of the rear corners. You
can do this by driving up a ramp or something similar. If you are still
running the lower load leafs on the rear spring, they will most likely
be what is limiting your compression travel. You may see the rest of the
spring pack sitting down on this spring and travel stop before you hit
the stops.
You can remove this lower leaf but there are important lift and axle wrap
results that you have to work with.
>I'm going to disconnect the swaybar before my next run this weekend to see
>if letting the front twist more will mean the rear doesn't have to. Bad
>idea? good idea?
Disconnecting the sway bar can help a fair bit in the rocks.
>I'm running a NWOR extended rear shackle in the rear, which is supposed to
>lift me an extra inch or so back there. I want to get some new Rs9000s for
>the rear (the rs5000s i have seem too stiff, but I like 'em in the front),
>should i go with the stock size rachos or the ones spec'ed for 2" lift?
Watch the Rancho specs. I've found them wrong several times. Best way
is to measure for your specific application than find the length you need
from their catalog.
Hope this gives you a few ideas.
_____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
_____________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:15:04 -0600
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Suspension throw
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Jay wrote:
>as it can come. Once this length is used up, you're out of droop travel and
>need to go to longer springs to get more length for increased droop.
For anyone who's interested in the longer springs Jay is refering to here,
there's a page on Off-Road.com that Jay wrote detailing what/how he did.
I've done this to my truck, with slight difference in the way that Jay did
it and must say the springs are incredibly soft, the whole project cost
me less than $150, wasn't terribly difficult and required minimal welding
(as compared to other projects I've done on my truck.) and metal cutting
ability.
You can get to the longer spring article from the TOYOTA page on
Off-Road.com at:
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/toyota.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:38:56 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Shocks
To: " - (052)toy4x4 (a) tlca.org" ,
Erich asked about Monroe "automatic valving" shocks
While I have not used the Monroe's I have heard good things about them.
Just keep in mind that the "marketing" part (aka automatic
valving, speed sensitive etc) is just that. There are really two
basic types of shocks - the monotube (Bilstein, "de-carbon",
Koni) and the twin tube (rancho and basically everyone else too).
I know that several of the mags (Four Wheeler) have written good
articles on shocks in the past. Reading one of their
"whats going on inside" articles will go a long way to
help you choose he right one.
While I have a set of Bilsteins - I like em even "with" their relatively
high "initial" stiffness - cause they have lasted over 130K. Other
shocks I have used last about 40K.
EWong
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:09:02 -0600
From: Erich Schultz
Subject: Shocks
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:45:07 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Shocks
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Ed.Wong@astramerck.com wrote:
> Erich asked about Monroe "automatic valving" shocks
>
> While I have not used the Monroe's I have heard good things about them.
>
> Just keep in mind that the "marketing" part (aka automatic
> valving, speed sensitive etc) is just that. There are really two
> basic types of shocks - the monotube (Bilstein, "de-carbon",
> Koni) and the twin tube (rancho and basically everyone else too).
The sensatracs ARE a little different than the others, in that while most
shocks have velocity-sensitive valving, the monroes have position-sensitive
valving. Its a real cool design, where the shock gets stiffer at the ends
of its travel.
I'm currently running RS5000s on my 4Runner, which, IMHO, are too stiff in
the rear on a leaf-sprung 4runner. I'll probably spring for some 9000s
soon. The 5000s in the front seem to be fine.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 09 Apr 1997 20:50:36 +0000
From: David Booth
Subject: Shocks for 94' X-Cab
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Erich wrote:
"Has anyone had any experience with Monroe gas sensi trac shocks that
have automatic valving? I am looking for a good replacement shock for
my 94 extra cab4 by 4 pickup. I would like to get Bilsteins but am
afraid they would be too stiff when the bed is unloaded, any advice? I
do not like Rancho shocks, I find them overpriced for what you get.
I've broken 2 RS 5000s on past trucks and dont want to go for number
3. I do 80% freeway travel, 20% old abandoned mining roads. Help!!!!"
I had Bilsteins on my 94' X-cab 4x4 and loved them! I didn't find
them too stiff when the truck was unloaded, and I drove it on a lot of
old mine roads. I pulled them off when I sold my 94' and I still have
them (Since my 89' 4Runner is lifted and they won't fit). I'd be
willing to let you have them for $80 and I'll pay shipping. They have
about 25,000 miles on them, but they are in great shape. I'll let you
try them, and if you don't like them, send them back and I'll return
your money.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:18:32 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Shocks
To: " - (052)Toy4x4 (a) tlca.org" ,
Eric Johnson wrote:
The sensatracs ARE a little different than the others, in that while most
shocks have velocity-sensitive valving, the monroes have position-sensitive
valving. Its a real cool design, where the shock gets stiffer at the ends
of its travel.
<<<<
Whups - I stand corrected.
I wasnt aware that there were "affordable" position sensative shocks on the
market.
The only ones I was aware of were Rancho Lightning Rods (at $650 or so EACH -
its not something you get a set of at the tire store)
OK - so the Monroes are probably not as "adjustable" as the LightningRods
are - but I will admit that position sensative (esp at the ends of travel)
are in general a desireable design trait.
I guess the ultimate "mid" budget setup are Bilsteins and hydrulic bump
stops.
BTW - shock technology has advanced greatly over the last 10 years -
mostly due to off road racing (SCORE etc). These advances have passed
into NASCAR and CART (They've *hired* away the best off road shock guys
to their teams)
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:58:39 -0700 (PDT)
From: Kevin Valentine
Subject: Shocks
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Do the Bilsteins give a hard or choppy ride? You mentioned they were
hard. I did not get that out of the previous posts regarding shocks.
I'm trying to get a shock that will provide a smoother ride than my
Firestone's which seem pretty stiff on my '88 4Runner.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 14:09:29 -0500
From: John Vargus
Subject: Shocks
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
My experience with bilsteins is a very soft ride. I was amazed at the
difference the bilsteins made in pre-running. With my current configuration
of dual bilstiens and cranked in torsion bars, the ride is very bouncy. In
my opinion i found the bilstiens to have the right amount of soft valving
for the toyotas. The wheels stuck to the road, on compression very soft
with stock setup. Once the torsion bars were cranked the ride changed
nsomewhat to a bounce.
Just my opinion, ive tried ranchos, kybs, doetch teschs, and bilsteins. And
im completely sold on the bilsteins.
John Vargus
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 16:00:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Shocks
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Thought I'd make a little clarification: I said that the Bilsteins were a
little soft, but I also wrote (or at least I think I did) that that was on
my dad's '93 1/2 ton chevy. No experiences with the Toyota ones... but
you'd think they'd be similar..
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 10 Apr 1997 07:34:16 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Shocks
To: "'Ed.Wong@astramerck.com'"
On Thursday, April 10, 1997 7:18 AM, Ed.Wong@astramerck.com wrote:
> Eric Johnson wrote:
> The sensatracs ARE a little different than the others, in that while
> most shocks have velocity-sensitive valving, the monroes have
> position-sensitive valving. Its a real cool design, where the shock
> gets stiffer at the ends of its travel.
> <<<<
>
> Whups - I stand corrected.
>
> I wasnt aware that there were "affordable" position sensative shocks on
the
> market.
I wouldn't mind trying a set. If they were adjustable, that would be great,
but they aren't.
They implement the position-sensitivity by cutting fine grooves along the
inside of the body of the shock, but only in the center. The piston, when
in the grooved area, gets a lot of fluid 'blowby', softening the dampening.
But when the shock piston moves towards either end, the grooves taper off,
there is less blowby, and a stiffer dampening. Its a very clever and
cheap-to-produce design.
- - ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:23:42 -0400
From: Bob Bascom
Subject: explorer pro-comp es 3000s
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
penny wrote:
>
> Any-one know if these shocks are any good? How would they rate compared
> to rancho rs 5000s?Highway ride?Any info would b greatly appreciated.
Hello,
I got explorer Procomps. When I got their lift kit. The ride real nice
on the highway. A little bit on the soft side though. RS 5000's are a
lot stiffer. The off road ride with the procomps is real loose.
Ryan Bascom
bascom@erols.com
------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:56:58 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Low mileage RS9000 shocks going bad?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Steve Keene wrote:
"I bought a set of RS9000 shocks about
a year ago. And under mild off road use
I have had two go bad. One front and
one rear. A lifetime Warrenty is great
but if they keep failing like this, Who
cares! I've got more important things
to do than constantly check my shocks.
ANYBODY ELSE HAVE THIS PROBLEM?"
Yep, we trashed a whole brand-new set in a '95 4Runner in one day. Of
course, it wasn't "mild" off-road use, but still...
We didn't even try to claim the warranty. Instead, we played, "let's see
how far we can throw these ******* things down the street." After they are
gone, they are still useful for putting chunks in asphalt - guaranteed.
- Nick
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 10:32:36 -0400 (EDT)
From: SKeene8194@aol.com
Subject: Poll: RS9000 shocks bad
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>I just bought a set a week ago, wheeled once, so far no problem.
>How did they go bad ? Start leaking ? Break ?
The Rear shock started to leak and the front shock that went bad
just was'nt damping. Bad valves or something. They were replaced
for free.
Steve Keene TLCA# 5414
skeene8194@AOL.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 13:11:30 -0400 (EDT)
From: TXPakRat@aol.com
Subject: RS9000 Problems
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Steve,
I have had a set of RS9000's and the dual remote on my '90 4Runner for
about 3+ years now. I have not had one single problem with the shocks
(I have had to fix a slow leak in the remote, though . . . no biggy).
The first year I had them on my truck I lived in Colorado. I spent
almost every weekend (or at least every other weekend) on some trail
somewhere in the mountains (either to ride or to get to a fishing hole).
I wouldn't say that I have abused them, but I have definately put them
through their paces!
You may have gotten a set of lemons. I wouldn't give up!
Bob
Pack Rat
TXPakRat@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 11:59:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: RS9000 Problems
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I'm about to order a set of rs9000's (well, on friday probably), and I'm
trying to decide whether I should get the remote. My main concern, is
that I've heard a lot of people mention that the remote system leaks, or
gives them other problems. So, this is what I'm wondering: How bad
does it leak, and is it possible to fix it? If I pump the shocks up to
'five', how long would they stay like that? An hour? A day? A week?
Would you buy it if you had it to do over?
Thanks,
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 3 May 1997 18:15:10 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Some shock info
To: "'toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Since I have been shopping for new rear shocks (mine seem too stiff and I
want more travel), I wrote down some specs at the parts store for Rancho
and Trailmaster rear shocks that fit on 84-88 Toyota 4x4s, maybe on other
years too. I thought others might find this info useful:
Rancho part number: lift Compressed Extended: Travel:
x180 0 13.53 21.98 8.45
x144 2 14.02 22.89 8.87
(my rough measurements on this one on my truck:)
14.5 22.5 8
x143 3 15.47 25.79 10.32
Theres a few others that seem to have the right end fitting and might work
in a toy, I don't know what the valving is like on these, and they might
not be available in the 9000 series:
x198 15.21 25.23 10.02
x202 15.16 24.21 9.05
x230 14.57 22.57 8.00
x=5 for 5000series, 9 for 9000 series. specs are for 5000 series, but the
9000s are supposed to be really close to this. Rancho info is from their
1995 catalog, except where noted.
Stock (as measured by me) 13 21 8
I got some trailmaster info too. They have at least 3 series of shocks...
xx530 0 13.98 22.51 8.53
xx740 3-4 15.36 25.39 10.03
Turns out I have Rancho 5144s right now. I'm gonna try to get 'em all the
way compressed and all the way extended tomorrow and see if they are indeed
limiting my articulation.
Another interesting thing I noted is that the right shock is mounted much
less vertical than the left, which should mean that the effective damping
rate would be higher on the left, and the travel should be better on the
right...
I hope someone finds this useful.
- --
- - ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 5 May 1997 09:25:43 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Some shock info
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 9:21 AM
OFFICE MEMO Some shock info Date: 5/5/97
Eric Johnson wrote:
snip lots of shock specs
>Another interesting thing I noted is that the right shock is mounted much
>less vertical than the left, which should mean that the effective damping
>rate would be higher on the left, and the travel should be better on the
>right...
Just remember that with stagger mounted shocks
(one forward, one rearward), the travel they see is
different because the axle does not travel straight
up and down but moves along an arc determined by
the leaf spring.
_______________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
_______________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 00:03:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: JMAX71@aol.com
Subject: Wheel Travel
To: TOY4X4@tlca.org
I just got done re-locating my shock towers, front and rear, and installing a
set of RS9000 9012s this last weekend. I'm very happy to say I have got way
more wheel travel now. No more hanging on my shocks. I haven't been able to
find my old notes yet to find out what kind of wheel travel I had before, but
I can tell you that when I pick up a rear tire with a fork lift, I get 30" of
vertical clearence under that tire, befor any other tire starts to lift off
the ground. Not too bad considering it still has stock springs. I hated to
give Rancho anymore money, but it sure does ride better now that I can
control the valving in the shocks.
Well just had to tell someone, now it's time to start working using up the
rest of those shocks.
Jason
85 SWB, Xtra Cab, Super Stub Bed, 33s, 5.29s, Marlin Crawler Gears #0001
82 Short bed, 33s, 4.88s, 3"susp.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 29 May 1997 22:35:45 -0400 (EDT)
From: Gsxrcpl@aol.com
Subject: YES Bilsteins are worth it!!
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I work at an off road shop in San Diego's north county, [not fwp!], I
sell Pro-comp, Rancho, KYB, and Bilstein shocks. The Bilsteins win hands
down. The thing that is differrent about the Steins is that they are
internally valved for each vehicle specifically. Every other shock, whether
you have a yoda or a full size ram are valved the same. So how can a Rancho
perform on a one ton ram the same on a 2wd yoda with the same shock, [except
the mounting], makes ya think. The Steins are also, as the KYB's, a mono
tube design, meaning only one layer of can between the oil and the outside.
Better heat dissapation= longer life & better performance w/o over-heating
the shocks. The only downside and yes there has to be one, is Steins are
only made for stock applications not lifted. So why did I just blow all that
hot air? Usually a match can be made with some research of measurements.
For ex. My truck is an 81 lb with 3" downey frt springs, I measured and
matched vehicles weights as close as possible and came up with frt-B46-1798
[jeep cherokee] rear-AK1087 [ranger] how do i like them INCREDIBLE!!!!!!
from Ranchos to Steins is like going from a 2x neessaann to a fully locked
Yoda 4x. Oh yea another down side, when swapping Stein part #'s you lose the
lifetime warranty. SO WHAT i would'nt trade my Steins for the biggest
warranty in the world. After all isn't the real warranty how your truck
performs on the trail. Thanx for listening, Adios...GSXRCPL
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:37:01 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Front springs
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
I talked to Kevin Grove at Rocky Mountain Off Road about there front
springs. According to him they get about 19 inches of articulation at
the fender. I was suprised to hear that he still uses the stock
steering system without hitting the drag link on the u-bolts. I had a 4
inch lift and my drag link hit my u-bolts just turning on flat ground.
I think for now I will be ordering a set of front springs from RMOR.
They have them made at Alcan Springs (I think that is the name, it is in
Grand Junction, CO) I mentioned to Kevin that I want the front axle
moved forward to help with fender clearance and he said that it should
be no problem. If anyone is going to the TLCA run at the Rubicon Kevin
will be there. I will keep in touch on the front springs. I should
also be those ford f-350 shock mounts that Jay mentioned. I have to
wait until I get the springs to know for sure. I will be limited by my
compression because of my fenders (my tires stick out a little). So I
do not know yet how much clearance I will need for shocks.
Tony
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:20:09 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Shock opinions
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Matthew Chavez wrote:
"I currently have RS 5000s and do most of
my driving on pavement. I did some
prerunning last summer and just about
boiled the oil in the RS 5000s. They were
really not working after about 1/2 hr of
driving on washboard. The other 1 1/2
hrs was kind of hairy. This has made me
think about changing my shocks. I was
wondering what people thought of the
Rancho RS 9000 vs all others such as
the ProComp ES 9000, MV-12's, Bilstiens,
Tokiko or others."
I'm surprised the RS5000's lasted a half hour. They will heat up fairly
quickly, and their stiff valving makes them fairly unsuitable for
pre-running. 5000's are essentially the epitome of 70's shock design
(introduced in 1978). Explorers are worse, IMHO, Tokico makes a large line
of shocks - which one were you looking at? Bilsteins are great on
non-lifted trucks. RS9000's are the best adjustable shock, in mine and the
majority of the list's opinion, but NOT a good pre-running shock.
I'm running Doetsch-Tech MV-12's, and I'll tell you why: Soft valving, and
resistance to fade. I feel they're the best pre-run commercial shock
(excluding rebuildables like Fox, Bilstein, and other $400+ beauties), and
their soft valving makes your highway ride smoother. A lot of rock crawlers
are starting to use them, too. Not adjustable, and not really suited to
heavy loads unless you double 'em. They come in a number of lengths.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Jul 1997 12:22:23 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: "some interesting ideas"
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Brennan Metcalf wrote:
"Does anyone know of a longer travel shock than
the Rancho #9012s."
I think Doetsch-Tech makes a 14" travel MV-12.
Good luck,
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 10 Jul 1997 11:42:28 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Pot stirring
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 10:46 AM
OFFICE MEMO Pot stirring Date: 7/10/97
Brennan Metcalf wrote:
>Does anyone know of a longer travel shock than the Rancho #9012s.
I think you have to go custom to get longer.
____________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner (her project)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner (for sale)
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 15:01:27 -0700
From: Wiley Davis
Subject: rancho 9000's
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
The ranchos do come w/ the metal sleeves (quite a few of them actually)
and 4-wheel parts reccomends using them...which brings me to a repeat
question. is the bolt supposed to rotate in the metal bushing?
- -Wiley Davis-
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:24:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Leroy Andersen
Subject: rancho 9000's
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
The bolt will go through one of the sleeves with no problem. There is still
a pretty close "clearance" between the bolt and the sleeve, though. I guess
you could say that it would "rotate", even though that won't happen. When
the bolts are all tightened down, the poly gets a pretty good grip on the
metal sleeve. The only slop would be minimal, if any, lateral movement
between the bolt and sleeve, none rotational. (At least that's how it went
with my solid axle mount)
~~~
Leroy Andersen 1985 SR5 Short Bed 4x4/22RE
Citrus Heights, CA 138K Miles, RS9000's, 4.10's
andrsen@ns.net Rancho Springs/Add-a-leaf
http://www.ns.net/~andrsen/
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 22:38:43 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: rancho 9000's
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
When I took out my poly and replaced it with rubber the poly was so
rigid that it actually wore a ridge into the metal washers- the poly
was stronger than the metal! I don't think poly belongs in spring
bushings...
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
Date: 23 Jul 1997 17:18:58 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: RS9000's
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 4:08 PM
OFFICE MEMO RS9000's Date: 7/23/97
john skaggs wrote:
>How did you get the rubber ones to fit? Did you just grind some rubber off?
I didn't do anything to the rubber bushings.
I found a problem with the 9000s and the Toyota truck mount tubes.
The size of the tube is so large compared to the bushing size that
there is not really much room left for urethane or rubber in between.
Combine that with the fact that the shock mounts are both parallel
to each other, and to the axle, and you find the shocks want to bind
under extreme rear axle articulation.
Jack and I talked about this some and were considering adding heims
to one shock mount or providing some means for the shock to move
more. But.......
When I installed my 9012s and put the new mounts on, I devised an
easy way to use the 5000 rubber bushings and get a lot of side to
side flex out of the shock mounting.
First, I tapped each of the four holes to 1/2-13. I then bought four
1/2" bolts about 1 1/2" long (full thread) and four nuts. I threaded
a nut on each of the bolts and tightened it down against the bolt
head. Now when I thread the bolts into the tubes, the space between
the washers (where the bushing goes) is widened by the width of the
added nut. This is needed because the rubber 5000 bushings are bigger
than the urethane 9000 bushings and won't seat as deep in the shock
eyes. Actually, the bushings don't quite touch each other in the shock
eyes, but that's ok. When I tighten the bolts, I tighten until all the
hardware meets and this provides the right controlled width for
the bushing.
They've been on since January and seem to be working fine.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 12 Aug 1997 19:46:31 -0700
From: wgirindra@bbs.fronet.com (Wilkin Girindra)
Subject: Front suspension redo and thanks.
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Well I have just finished up the complete front suspension redo on
my 81 Toy shortbox. Lots of work but it looks like it definitely was
worth it.
So with a note of thanks to Jay Kopycinski and Jack Alford for
sharing their ideas which I have stolen and to Jay for all the
email help.
Here's what happened:
I bought the 5" lift Skyjacker front springs and took the bottom leaf out.
Installed them and got about 3-1/2" of lift. Not enough for my 33" Yoko's.
At the advice of Jay I went and bought some extended length shackles.
They were Confer units. I believe 3" longer than stock with a claimed
2" lift. I dismantled the Confer shackles by cutting the center section
out and drilling new holes 1" from the bottom holes. No more center
brace. Stole this idea from Rocky Mountain Off Road but I didn't cut
the length of the shackle like they did. I got about another 1" of lift
from the shackle.
This is now working great. Now on to the upper shock mounts for the
Rancho 9012's. My friend and I decide to fabricate new mounts and not
go with the Ford mounts that Jay and Jack are using. This is the part
where we started getting aggravated. We make cardboard templates and
then cut up the steel for the mounts.
We start on the passenger side (big mistake). The mount goes in
beautifully after we cut the inner fender well. This is working too
good. Very happy with ourselves. Then we go over to the driver side
and cut the inner fender well and put the mount in.
DOH!
The mount is hitting the brake master cylinder. Ok now it's about
10PM and we have just about had enough. Why didn't we just use the
Ford mounts?! Oh well sometimes you have to go down a different path.
What to do. We look at the passenger side mount as it sits beautifully
and we don't want to cut it out. Maybe we can angle the mount outwards?
Decide against that. The front tire might rub against it when compressed.
Eventually decide to install a 1" bodylift and the shock tower clears
the bottom of the master cylinder.
Anyways we twisted the truck up and it really seems to work. Whew!
The ride on the street is also incredibly smooth now.
This is where the appreciation goes out to Jay and Jack for sharing
their ideas.
Very soon I will be doing the Mazda springs on the rear but this weekend
my dual tcases are arriving!
Wil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:27:10 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: installing Ford front shock mounts
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Anyone out there who has the Ford front shock mounts installed I just
have a couple of questions.
first, I have completed the holes in my inner fender, I cut the original
mount so there is about 1 to 2 inches showing above the frame. I
installed my right mount first and tack welded it on to check
clearances. I went to a local ramp and found out I did not have the
shock far enough inside (tire hit shock on compression). After getting
back to the shop I noticed that my shock mount assembly moved a little
over a half inch until it hit my inner fender. My welds held so I think
mounting the Ford shock mount to what was left of my stock mount did not
have enough support.
Did anyone have to reinforce this setup?
After looking it over I think I will cut the stock mount off and make
some type of bracket so I can bolt the Ford mount to. That way if you
ever have to remove the brake master cylinder it will not be in the way.
I have the bottom of the Ford mounts about even with the top of my
frame. Is this close to anyone elsed setup? The drivers side mount
sits just below the brake master cylinder (had to modify the brake line
for a better fit).
Everything is going good so far. I am just about done with the stuff I
can do myself. Now I have to flag down a friend to help with the
welding (my welding still sucks).
People with a/c will have to modify there a/c lines coming out of the
evaporator so they do not rub against each other.
I planned on taking pictures but got involved with the work I forgot,
sorry.
Tony.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 25 Aug 1997 14:14:28 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: installing Ford front shock mounts
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 2:06 PM
OFFICE MEMO installing Ford front shock mounts Date: 8/25/97
Tony Bartlett wrote:
snip
>Did anyone have to reinforce this setup?
Once I topped the stock mounts and welded the Ford mounts
on top of what was left, I added a small piece of 1" x 3/6" (or
1/8") flat stock to connect the two in the middle.
>After looking it over I think I will cut the stock mount off and make
>some type of bracket so I can bolt the Ford mount to. That way if you
>ever have to remove the brake master cylinder it will not be in the way.
My mounts clear the master easily.
>I have the bottom of the Ford mounts about even with the top of my
>frame. Is this close to anyone elsed setup?
Sounds about right......
>The drivers side mount sits just below the brake master
cylinder (had to modify the brake line for a better fit).
Mines sits below and just forward of the master.
>Everything is going good so far. I am just about done with the stuff I
>can do myself. Now I have to flag down a friend to help with the
>welding (my welding still sucks).
Practice.....practice......
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 07:12:48 -0400
From: "NUNES, ROB"
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
> snip
> >I'd appreciate any input on a) doing this to a 4Runner b) rust
> >restoring/preventative chemical stories c) suspension lift input
> (I'm
> >considering the NWOR 3-1/2" setup).
>
Jay wrote;
> The NWOR springs are VERY stiff and don't count on them
> backing their warantee with any decent service....been there.
> ______________________________________________
>
I have to second this statement about NWOR. I had problems with four
leaking Douche-Tech shocks. NWOR gave me a hard time about returning
them. It took about a month to get them replaced. Three months later,
the new shocks started to leak again. This time I returned them right
into the trash barrel. I will never buy Douche-Tech products again.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:09:48 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Are there more terror stories of them Dostech shocks? I always thought
> they where expensive and sophisticated....
Yes, can you say fraud? I bought the adjustable Dostech shocks. They were
way too soft for use on the front end of an IFS truck and the adjusters
did not change the shock one little bit. The stock Toyota gas shocks were
better. So I call them Dostrash shocks now. Get some KYB gas adjust or
Rancho shocks. BTW RS9000 will not fit a stock Toyota IFS. The shocks are
too long and prevent full compression.
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 22:16:08 -0700
From: Nick Krest
Subject: This can be saved (I think)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Runar wrote:
"Are there more terror stories of them Doetsch-Tech
shocks? I always thought they were expensive and
sophisticated...."
Actually, just the opposite for me; they're the best thing I've ever done
for my truck. 8 MV-12's @ $40 US each is a heckuva lot cheaper than a new
set of kidneys...they've been to Baja three times, chased a SCORE car with
a bed full of spares 3 times, and had roughly 40,000 miles on them. I'm
sold. They go on every off-road vehicle that I'll ride in (that doesn't
have a tech inspection sticker on it)...
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 27 Aug 1997 15:42:59 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: installing Ford front shock mounts
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:37 PM
OFFICE MEMO installing Ford front shock mounts Date: 8/27/97
Hi everyone. I just bought front upper shock mounts off a 1991 Ford
F-250. If anyone is interested the part number is
E5TZ*18183*A. They list for $34.38 and net for $25.78
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 29 Aug 1997 09:05:54 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Ford Front Shock Mounts
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:34 AM
OFFICE MEMO Ford Front Shock Mounts Date: 8/29/97
"Fisher, Gary" wrote:
>What's the deal with these Ford front shock mounts??
>Why are people buying them? Are they better than standard
>or are they just cheaper if your standard ones break? If they
>offer some sort of improvment im interested.
When I was working on extending the travel on my front live
axle suspension I was looking for a way to mount 14" travel
9012s on the front end. Jim Chott one day mentioned he had
a spare set of Ford mounts lying around at home. I tried 'em
out and they seemed to work pretty good. These allowed me
to mount the long shocks and extend them up above the innner
fenderwells into the engine compartment.
Several other people have done the mod as well. Over the next
few months I will be working on doing similar mods on two
other trucks. I have not yet decided if I will use Ford mounts.
I have some other ideas I may like to try out.
Charles wrote:
snip
>When I said "It's a TOYOTA and it's a 1983" they said WELL
(Insert snobby snort) you should go across the street a ford
shock mount won't fit a toyota! (Insert Know-it-all Smirk &
snorting sounds) Would you beleive, they would not even
entertain the Idea that a vehicle could be modified for the
better???!!!
He he....the things you have to put up with......sheesh.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 3 Sep 1997 09:06:57 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: shock mounts
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 8:55 AM
OFFICE MEMO shock mounts Date: 9/3/97
Brandon Miller wrote:
snip
>My question is, my brackets moved the shocks in
>nearly 2" to the center of the axle from where they were... anybody care
>to venture what affect this will have? I haven't welded the top shock
>mounts yet, should I try to keep the same shock angle or straighten it a
>bit? By the way, my truck is an 83 so the shocks both mount on the
>pumpkin side of the axle housing.
I'll venture........
We just welded new shock mounts on a friend's '80 truck. We welded
the mounts to the round frame crossmember under the bed. We moved
the mount points up about 2" and each one inboard about 6". This will
allow us to run 14" travel 9012s.
Laying them down will reduce the effective dampening rate. So....you
need to have a shock with greater damapening than if you had it mounted
vertically. In our case, we're using adjustable shocks and know that
setting 5 is overly stiff. So, we will be able to find a lesser setting
that should work just fine.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 3 Sep 1997 11:36:17 -0700
From: wgirindra@bbs.fronet.com (Wilkin Girindra)
Subject: Shock mounts (rear)
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
To Brandon:
You asked about kicking your rear shocks in towards the
center. I just did this about 3 months ago when the
crossmember on my truck rusted through and I welded in
a new one.
I mounted the upper shockmounts so that they are pretty
close to touching each other on top. This setup works great,
I highly recommend it. The ride became smoother and offroad
I think it increased articulation. oh and I did this on a 81 Toy.
Wil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 3 Sep 1997 16:15:24 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Making new Shock Mounts
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:54 PM
OFFICE MEMO Making new Shock Mounts Date: 9/3/97
Jimmy Tom wrote:
>Now here's the question: I've seen shocks mounted in both single and
>double shear and using both grade 5 and grade 8 bolts. For those who have
>done something similar, which method held (holds) up the best? I'm only
>using a single shock per wheel and somehow single shear mounting on the
>hoop doesn't jive with me too well, yet I've seen this setup on lots of
>race trucks -- even stock Toyota rear shock mounts are in single shear.
>Thanks for any enlightenment....but I don't plan on using Liquid Nails.
I'm running single shear in the rear and double shear up front.
I've never had a problem with either.....but I don't jump my
truck either. We just did some rears in single shear using
3/4" Grade 8 bolts and rubber bushings. I think they'll hold
up quite well under just about any abuse.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 4 Sep 1997 01:13:16 -0700
From: Nick.Krest@nickkrest.batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Making new Shock Mounts
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jimmy Tom wrote:
"...I've seen shocks mounted in both single and
double shear and using both grade 5 and grade 8
bolts....which method held (holds) up the best?"
Jimmy -
As far as single- versus double-shear, the question is mostly academic.
Like you, I've seen both, and both seem to work - otherwise, you'd only see
one or the other.
As for bolts, academically, I would be inclined to go with the 5's, because
the theoretical increase in flex should make them less brittle. In
practice, though, I would stick with the 8's. We've never had a problem
with 8's breaking. Shock shafts and stub axles, yes, but not Grade 8's.
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 04 Sep 1997 07:05:35 -0600
From: Rob Boyle
Subject: rear springs
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
DRM033@aol.com wrote:
>
> I was wondering about those roller things on my springs, and also the U
> shaped metal pieces that are supposed to keep the leaves alligned. I see
> that the roller things are what is limiting my compression. The U shaped
> things are hitting my exhaust pipes. Can both be removed without
> reprocussions?
> Any thoughts?
>
> David
> DRM033@aol.com
David, I dont know about the little bump stops, but I did remove the
spring clips (just the bolt that goes through). the result was better
droop, maybe. the drawback, my leaves keep fanning out and I have to
beat them back with a hammer after every wheelin trip.
Rob
85 4runner
------------------------------
Date: 4 Sep 1997 12:36:09 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: rear springs
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 7:43 AM
OFFICE MEMO rear springs Date: 9/4/97
DRM033@aol.com wrote:
>I was wondering about those roller things on my springs, and also the U
>shaped metal pieces that are supposed to keep the leaves alligned. I see
>that the roller things are what is limiting my compression.
They are there so that when the bed is loaded with weight, the
rollers hit the frame and effectively shorten the spring length
and raise the spring rate.
>The U shaped things are hitting my exhaust pipes. Can both be removed
>without reprocussions? Any thoughts?
You will loose the feature I mention above, but should gain
more travel at the lower spring rate. I think this would be
fine unless you often haul heavy loads.
How about cutting the tops off the spring clamps? Would
this allow you to clear the pipes? This would still leave
the vertical sections of the clamps to keep your packs in line.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 30 Sep 1997 08:36:19 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: steering after moving front axle
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Reply to: steering after moving front axle
Brandon Miller wrote:
>With the ford mounts, what is involved? Just cut out the old and weld
>in the new? Is it strong enough with the extended height?
I installed mine about a year and a half ago and have not had any
problems with them. I run the shocks can down and have no
interference problems. I cut about 3 inches off the top of the
stock mount and welded the modified Ford mounts on top with
some overlap. I added a small piece of flat bar between the
two for a little added strength.
>How much $ and is it cheaper just to fabricate something since it
requires welding anyway?
Depends how much time vs. money you have and what you like to
fabricate yourself..........
>How long does it take to do the mounts and what kind of
>shock can you run?
Hard to say how long it will take you. I'm running Rancho
RS9012s.......19" compressed, 33" extended. I still have to run
limit straps to keep the steering from binding and the driveshaft
from falling apart.....both issues that I still need to address.
>I've got 4" springs up front but I am going to
>install the 2" lift shackles as well as move the axle forward about 3/4"
>(by drilling another hole in the spring perch).
Don't forget the bump stop.
>By the way, I finished bobbin the bed, looks awesome!
Are we gonna see pictures?
>A tip for everyone-
>put a zip tie on the piston of all of your shocks (lose the boots
>first). I was amazed to see that the tie was pushed all the way to the
>top, just driving on the road which means I need to figure out something
>different with my shocks in the rear. I am going to see if it is
>possible to put newer springs on an older truck tomorrow...
You can also check downward travel using a zip tie that pinches a
string tied to the shock rod.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '72 Jeep Commando
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk '97 H-D Sportster
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:03:53 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jon Brandt
Subject: 9000 shocks
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
It's up to you, how much abuse you can take from stiff suspension.
I would only use the 9000's if you want lower settings on the street.
I only had the 5's in the front before, but I think that the adjustable
9's are nearly useless off road. Stiff shocks only limit travel if you're
mov'n fast, so I see no draw back to the 5's. Let me also note that my
9's have been loosening their adjustment. Apparently from road
vibrations. My spring rates are relatively soft too, so the ride is not
too rough. They used to have metal knobs, now they're cheap plastic. I
would recommend the 5000's if you go with Rancho at all.
Just my experience. Jon Brandt
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:22:16 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: 9000 shocks
To:
Nobody else makes shocks with that much travel except doetch tech and they
are $$$$$$$$$$
The 9012's have 14" of travel. I have trail masters now and I like the
ride, wouldn't want it any stiffer though..
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:21:53 -0700
From: "C & S Learning"
Subject: 9000 shocks
To:
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 19:22:16 -0800
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: 9000 shocks
To:
Nobody else makes shocks with that much travel except doetch tech and they
are $$$$$$$$$$
The 9012's have 14" of travel. I have trail masters now and I like the
ride, wouldn't want it any stiffer though..
I have the ProComp 3000's with 13.5" travel. Works great for me, and fairly
inexpensive.
Colin Learning
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:59:12 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: travel
To: Toyota 4x4 List
"Brandon Miller" wrote:
>I just ordered new mounts for longer rear springs and I would like to know
>what people payed for their rear longer springs, wether it was pick n pull,
>wreckers, etc. I am leaning toward the T100 springs but I have no idea how
>I can get my hands on a set, any chance anyone out there has some that they
>replaced?
I was lucky and was able to pick up my Mazda springs for $20 a pair. A friend
of mine paid $40 for one pair and $50 for another.
>For the front I would like to get some X012 rancho's but I can't decide
>between the 5's and 9's - opinions?
One thing nice about the 90o0s is that you can dial 'em where you like 'em.
I run my fronts on 2 around town but bump 'em up to about 4 when I load
up for camping to keep the sway down since I don't run a sway bar.
>Has anyone put shock hoops on their
>toys? I can't decide whether to fab something out of channesl or have
>someone bend some hoops and tie them together over the engine. I need
>longer shocks and I figure I might as well get the longest while I am at it.
Hoops would be nice but if you're gonna run 9012s you'll need to find
a way to extend the mounts up above the fenderwell line. 9010s should
also work without having to go into the engine compartment. 9010s are
11" travel, as I recall.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:57:04 -0800
From: "wg"
Subject: Travel
To:
Brandon wrote:
>For the front I would like to get some X012 rancho's but I can't decide
>between the 5's and 9's - opinions? Has anyone put shock hoops on their
>toys? I can't decide whether to fab something out of channesl or have
>someone bend some hoops and tie them together over the engine. I need
>longer shocks and I figure I might as well get the longest while I am at
it.
I wouldn't bother fabbing front mounts or hoops. I found it to be
a big waste of time. I fabbed mounts about a year ago.
If I had to do it again I would just go with the Ford front mounts.
Much easier and does the same thing. I think that making hoops and
bracing them over the engine is a bit of overkill unless your jumping your
truck a bunch. I don't have mine tied over the engine and it hasn't been a
problem yet.
Jon wrote:
>I had 5000, now have 9000's all around. I really loved them at first.
>Then aI thought they were gimicky, cause settings 1 and 5 are useless
>extremes. I still like them, though, cause I wouldn't want the high
>setting ALL the time. They could improve them though, scrap the 1&5 and
>make the settings closer together.
I have to disagree with you on this one Jon. I have the 9012's on
my truck. I've never bothered to take them off setting "1". I use it that
way on the street and on the trails. I have soft front springs and they
work well with the Ranchos on one. No problems
Getting back to Brandon...I would go with the 9012's especially when
they have the buy 3 get the 4th free deal back.
Wil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:51:04 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Shock mounting
To: Toyota 4x4 List
dquezada@diabloresearch.com wrote:
>Is it okay to mount my RS9000's upside down? I'd like to get the
>adjustment knob as far away from the ground (dirt, road grime, etc.)
>as possible, and flipping the shock seemed like an easy solution.
>Also, I've heard the pros and cons of running with and without
>shock boots; what do you guys recommend?
Yes, you can mount RS9000s either way. My vote is for bootless.
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 20:26:16 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: Shock mounting
To: Toy4x4
Dan wrote about mounting rs9000 upside down.
I know a lot of people mounting them upside down, including me.
I have seen them get air in the adjuster and they stop having any shock
rate to them.
I would mount mine right side up but with solid axle and normal steering
you can not clear the tire and the steering arm with them mounted
upright.
If you set one on setting 1 and compress and rebound the shock they have
different rates, I would think this would have some noticable difference
between upside down and rightside up.
Now about shock boots. If you have the 9012 (13 1/2 inch travel) The
shock boots are not long enough to fully extend with the shock. Kind of
stupid to send a boot that will not even work with the shock.
I also think the seal where the shaft enters the body is good enough on
its own.
Tony
http://www.digitalpla.net/~offroader
offroader@digitalpla.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 19:53:05 -0700
From: Chris Geiger
Subject: Re: re shocks and vendor, again
> I specifically wanted a softer riding shock
> though, the easier they compress, the better they work off road.....unless
> your pre-running like Ivan.
Am I the only one that likes stiff shocks on rocky trails? Most people
I have talked to say you should run the softest shock possible in
rocks. I find that with my RS 9000's a setting of 3 or 4 seems to work
well on rocky trails. I have used every setting from 1 to 4 front and
rear and I find that softer settings do not increase travel one little
bit. It does decrease the time it takes the suspension to get to it final
resting spot but that's a good thing. Without the ideal gearing that I
will have someday, I find that even going as slow as possible I sometimes
come down off a rock and with a soft setting on the shocks this is more
likely to cause a hit somewhere on the frame. If I run the higher settings
the truck does not wobble around as much on the trail and is less likely
to hit bottom after coming off a rock. Could this be a new thread to
talk about? What do you all think? Am I crazy or does this make sense?
Chris Geiger 93 4Runner http://geiger.mcl.ucsb.edu/offroad.html "RockRunner"
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:47:12 -0700
From: Ken Emanuel
Subject: Re: re shocks and vendor, again
Chris Geiger wrote:
> If I run the higher settings the truck does not wobble around as much
> on the trail and is less likely to hit bottom after coming off a rock.
> What do you all think? Am I crazy or does this make sense?
I certainly agree...that's why I use Rancho RS5000s that are about as
stiff as your 9000s are on setting 4. I don't think they are the
greatest for on-road, but I think stiffness is what gives you the
control for fireroads, dune running, and yes, even rockcrawling.
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Ken Emanuel Emanuel@csus.edu
'87 Xtra Cab SR5 (22R-E)
http://webpages.csus.edu/~sac75830/toystuff.htm
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
============================================================================
Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:02:29 EDT
From: DRM033
Subject: Re: re shocks and vendor, again
I have to agree. I like the stiffer shocks for rough rocky type trails -
shoot for almost any of the trails around here. I hate the gooey feeling of
soft shocks, and the firmer ones seem to work better for me too. I would
thing that soft springs & firmer shocks would be the ideal...
-------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:29:04 -0700
From: "Brandon Miller"
Subject: Re: re shocks and vendor, again
hmm, I like soft shocks for the rocks becuase it is easier to keep all fours
on the ground that way when you are moving. There is a bit more of a boat
effect but you can't beat the traction and ride...
On a somewhat related topic, I was going to have some hoops bent for the
5012's I bought (not for the stiffnes, for the price) but lookin inside the
fender wells there is a lot of stuff mounted where I would have to cut the
fenders. I anyone running the X012's without cutting the fenders????
I know there are pictures out there, could someone please post some links
for me to check out? Thanks!
By the way, since I got my truck broken into a while back I bought a
clifford tazor II alarm, I don't like the loud noise it makes when arming
the alarm but luckily you can turn that off so just the parking lights
flash. I installed it myself and saved $90. I was considering adding power
door locks or windows, just a thought but has anyone done this?
Brandon Miller
---------------------
--------------------------
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 14:27:03 -0400
From: schein@juno.com (Dan Schein)
Subject: Re: Shock Length
On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 16:01:15 -0700 Chris Geiger writes:
>Ok so read Jay's write up on measuring shock length at:
>http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/travel.html
>and you went out and put a couple of low riders under opposite wheels
>and now have the measurements for your new shocks. So you head down to
>you local off road shop and ask for a shock that is "X" long
>compressed
>and "Y" long extended and they give you that "Why can't you just order
>shocks by the year and model" look. Well after manny requests I have
>taken the Rancho catalog and put most of the sizes of RS5000 and
>RS9000
>shocks online. Now you can see what size each part number is. Look for
>the link off my main page. All of the sizes you are likly to need are
>there.
Chris I just used the info on your site and picked shocks for my Fj40.
Then I called Rancho to see how I did. On length I did great! Only
problem is that the eyelet size on some of the shocks is different. That
is where I made my mistake. So for getting a feel on how to calculate
shocks, your site and Jay's are great. Just ensure the small details with
a call to tech support before placing your credit card on the line.
- -Dan
- --
Dan Schein Esq. -=- schein@juno.com -=- Reading, PA USA
http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/1978
Member of TLCA (#6687) and the Keystone Cruisers chapter
Proud owner of Jo, a 1978 Fj40 Toyota LandCruiser
86 Hilux, 73 Hurst/Olds, 88 Honda Civic, 93 Pontiac Transport
_____________________________________________________________________
-----------------------------
Date: Tue, 5 May 1998 12:40:06 -0700 (PDT)
From: Luke P Miller
Subject: Re: longer shocks?
Take those necessary measurements. You may find that you can't fit a
longer shock on the stock mounts. If you don't want to move the mounts,
you would have to install a taller bumpstop to keep the shock from
bottoming out on compression. Then you could mount a slightly longer
shock, to give you that extra droop. BUT, if you go this route, you just
negated any gain in overall travel by adding that taller bumpstop. So, if
you can't get a longer shock into the stock mounts, without it bottoming
out (and thereby breaking off shock mounts), you're going to have to move
the shock mount on at least one end of your shock. This will allow you to
keep you stock up-travel, and increase your down-travel. Life is never
simple enough.
On Mon, 4 May 1998, Tim wrote:
So, my question is, can i just take the
> necessary measurments and get some longer travel rs90xx's or should i modify
> the mounts and move them up while i'm at it?
>
> Tim Stucky
> http://www.theworks.com/~fmfcr125/toyota/
>
>
> ============================================================================
> Toyota 4x4 page: http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota
>
Luke Miller
__________________________________________________________________________
1985 4Runner 3"Alcan front lift, 3" custom Mazda spring rear lift, 4.88's,
rear lockright, RS 9000's, 32x11.50 Michelins, ugly homemade bumpers (the
best kind)...
__________________________________________________________________________
------------------------------
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