Sway Bars
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:35:03 -0500
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Quick Release Sway Bar
To: " - (052)Toy4x4 (a) tlca.org" ,
Scott:
Before everyone goes off to their local Riley&Scott machine shop to get QR
links made out of pure "Unobtainium" - consider what those QR links are for
and what they do - esp in light of the fact that Yota's have an IFS front
as well as a solid axle front. (Sorry - been reading about Can-Am and GTP)
Somewhere in some mag's ramp travel test was the curious result that IFS
Yotas did WORSE or no better with the bars disconnected.
In other words - unbolt it and see it it helps - THEN go get some made up.
It may be a pain to unbolt but it is "free".
My belief is that QRs for the IFS are a "show" item - but might psych out the
crowd at the rok fest.
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:40:31 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Quick Release Sway Bar
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-02-06 15:21:45 EST, you write:
> I imagine it wouldn't be to hard to have a machine shop make some
> either. I have a cousin who works in a shop. Next time I see him I'll
> inquire about it. If the shop he works at is not too busy at that time
> he might even make them in his spare time.
>
> Scott
>
I was wondering about disconnects for my IFS. Would there be any advantage
to this? I was thinking it couldn't be too hard to make some disconnects
(probably a lot cheaper too).
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 07 Feb 1997 12:50:04 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Quick Release Sway Bar
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Somewhere in some mag's ramp travel test was the curious result that IFS Yotas
> did
> WORSE or no better with the bars disconnected.
Ed,
Do you happen to know if the tests were done with rubber, or
polyurethane bushings on the sway bar. When I switched from rubber to
poly the change in "sway" was unbelievable. Even the first time I
backed it out the driveway after doing the poly (and just the sway bar
poly, I might add) the stiffness was unmistakable.
I truly believe the poly will hinder you on the trail if you use it on
you anti-sway bar, as I do. Thanks for the info Ed. After hearing
those ramp test results you gave, I'd even consider changing my sway bar
back to rubber if I didn't like my 4Runners on road performance with the
poly.
Scott
------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 20:10:02 -0800
From: "Michael Medart"
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To:
>I'm still working on a cheap swaybar disconnect system, but the one I'm
>using is still too difficult to use when muddy.
I didn't even bother trying disconnects. I took off and threw away my sway
bar in 1989 and haven't missed it since. Noticed a big gain in travel and
only a small increase in lean going around corners (didn't buy the truck for
it's cornering abilities anyway). That and the aforementioned low-profile
bump-stops really work well. Try it, you'll like it.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 00:07:27 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-03-06 23:13:03 EST, you write:
> I didn't even bother trying disconnects. I took off and threw away my
> sway
> bar in 1989 and haven't missed it since. Noticed a big gain in travel and
> only
> a small increase in lean going around corners (didn't buy the truck for
> it's
> cornering abilities anyway). That and the aforementioned low-profile
bump-
> stops really work well. Try it, you'll like it.
>
I know a guy with an old CJ5, and he had the Rancho 9000's all the way
around. ON the road, changing from soft to firm was a BIG difference. The
sway and roll at the softest setting was almost unsafe at highway speed.
My question is: If the sway bar were removed from an IFS, could the 9000's on
the front be used to compensate sway on the road? Would this deliver too
harsh a ride?
Also, the low profile bump stops: is that for IFS? If so, where do I get
some and how hard are they to install?
Whew...
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:00:37 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> Also, the low profile bump stops: is that for IFS? If so, where do I get
> some and how hard are they to install?
David,
Yes, they are for IFS. I bought mine through 4Wheel Parts
Wholesalers, but almost any 4X4 shop would sell them. They are made of
polyurethane. If I recall they're only $3-4 a pair, and you'll need
three pair for the Toy IFS. Piece of cake to install, all they are is a
piece of polyurethane with a bolt in sticking out of it. The only
problem you may incounter is if the bolts for the old ones are rusty...
Scott
- --
Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o
Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_)
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 6 Mar 1997 22:05:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I know a guy with an old CJ5, and he had the Rancho 9000's all the way
> around. ON the road, changing from soft to firm was a BIG difference. The
> sway and roll at the softest setting was almost unsafe at highway speed.
> My question is: If the sway bar were removed from an IFS, could the 9000's on
> the front be used to compensate sway on the road? Would this deliver too
> harsh a ride?
My friends truck has RS9000's. On setting one, they are just way too soft
(dangerous even), setting two is about stock, 3 is about right, 4 feels
the same as the RS5000's that used to be on a friends '86, and 5 is, well,
stiff as hell. On setting one, you can grab the rear bumper and almost
bounce the rear tires right off of the ground. On 5 you can hardly make
the truck move (bounce) at all.
I *think* it would do okay without the sway bar and the shocks set on 5,
but I think it would be pretty uncomfortable. Keep in mind that shocks
really can't make up for springs (or sway bars). Springs hold the vehicle
'up' (or in the case of sway bars--level), and shocks just dampen.
I dunno, you could always try it out though...
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 01:10:40 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-03-07 01:08:19 EST, you write:
> I *think* it would do okay without the sway bar and the shocks set on 5,
> but I think it would be pretty uncomfortable. Keep in mind that shocks
> really can't make up for springs (or sway bars). Springs hold the vehicle
> 'up' (or in the case of sway bars--level), and shocks just dampen.
>
> I dunno, you could always try it out though...
>
>
> Jonathan Albrecht
I was actually planning to fab some disconnects. I was just passing my
thoghts around to the group. Eventually I will come up with a winner
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 7 Mar 1997 07:58:05 -0800
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Sway bar disconnects...
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
On Thursday, March 06, 1997 5:10 PM, DRM033@aol.com wrote:
> I was actually planning to fab some disconnects. I was just passing my
> thoghts around to the group. Eventually I will come up with a winner
Well, the design I came up with is simple, but it still needs work. I've been using it for about a year, so its plenty stong....
Go buy some 3/8" threaded rod, and some 1/2" (i think) glavanized
conduit. Replace the rod and sleeve that connects the swaybar
to the left lower control arm with the threaded rod and appropriately-cut
conduit (you might be able to recycle the original sleeve). I think I used a
3/8 nylock on the lower end and a wingnut on the upper. I suppose you
could use an appropriately-long bolt instead of the threaded rod.
Anyways, with this setup, you can quickly remove the connector at the
trailhead.
The problems with this quick-and-dirty setup is that you wind up with
I think its 12 loose pieces to keep track of (4 busings, sleeve, rod,
2 nuts, 4 washers), and it doesn't go back together very easily, its you
get very muddy sticking your arms throught the wheelwell to work
with it.
To get around some of these limitations, I might experiment with
a system where I disconnect both sides, but leave the connecting
rods (and all that associated hardware) in, and somehow secure
the swaybar up above..
If you want to get real clever, marine stores sell all these parts
in stainless versions...
- --
- - ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 1 May 1997 16:01:20 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Anti-sway bar
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
DRM033@aol.com wrote:
> > but I've noticed on my last few wheeling trips that articulation
> > and airing down buys you a lot of traction. Low bump stops and yanking
> > out the sway bar helps with articulation. I think in the rear I'm
> > currently limited by my shocks for droop.
>
> Thanks for the reply, but you bring up another question. Is removing the
> sway bar a good idea? I guess I could just unhook the thing for about a
> week and see for myself. Any of you IFS people no longer running sway
> bars? Can you tell a difference on road? High speed cornering? Would
> better shocks in the front help off-set this? I have the ProComp ones
> now, but I am considering 9000s for the front.
Here's what I do: When I KNOW i'm going wheeling, I pull off one of the end
links (that's all you need to do) and when I'm back to the daily grind of
road travel, I reinstall it. You DO notice increased body roll without it,
and I don't like it at all on-road, so thats why I re-install it when I'm
done wheeling. But off road, I really like it. There are places where I've
been on three wheels with the sway bar in, and on four without. FWIW I run
RS5000s at all 4 corners.
I've experimented with my own designs for quick-release end links, but have
yet to come up with a design that I'm 100% happy with. I have replaced the
end link main bolt with some 3/8" threaded rod and use wingnuts to hold it
all together. That works pretty well and makes unhooking it in the garage
real easy, but I don't like attaching/detaching it on the trail because
there are a lot of washers and bushings involved, and the tires are always
muddy. So I just unhook it at home, and take it real easy on the corners.
Give it a try and get a feel for how your rig rides without it. If anyone
has any clever ideas for a quick-disconnect, I'd love to hear it.
Actually, on road, I've also got poly swaybar busings and it corners real
nice with the swaybar attached.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net - putting the 'independence' back into IFS. :)
------------------------------
-----------------------------
Date: Thu, 01 May 1997 16:11:10 -0800
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Sway-a-way Pt II, and rear leafs
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
James W Tom wrote:
>
> I just visited Sway-a-way to pick up some torsion bars, but it sems that
> they only distribute to other retailers like 4WPH. Before I plunk $$ down
> a for set,
You may just wanna find some in the wrecking yard. Also I know a lot of
people remove them permanently, so they may have them laying around and
be interested in selling 'em to you. I'm like Eric, when I'm on road I
hate driving w/o my anti sway bar (also with poly), and off road I
always take it off for the extra wheel travel.
Scott
- --
*****************************************************
Scott Wilson TLCA #5261
88 4Runner SR5 V6
Santa Clara, CA
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 10:36:35 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Stock IFS wheel travel
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Greg S. Francis wrote:
> > Any of you IFS people no longer running sway bars? Can
> >you tell a difference on road? High speed cornering? Would better
shocks in
> >the front help off-set this? I have the ProComp ones now, but I am
> >considering 9000s for the front.
> >
> >David
> >DRM033@aol.com
>
> No Sway Bar, RS5000s, No Problems.
Agreed, same setup. David, it only takes maybe a minute to take out one of
the end links (don't bother dropping the whole bar, just yank out one end
link)... try it out!
I went wheeling on sunday and I couldn't get a wheel in the air even when I
tried with the swaybar removed. I didn't try >that< hard, but with the
swaybar on, I normally spend a little time three-wheeling. Disconnecting
the front swaybar helps keep rear wheels on the ground, since it allows the
front end the flex a little more independently. My rig is IFS by the way, I
don't know how/if this would work on a solid axle unit.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 6 May 1997 13:48:46 -0700
From: "Todd and Terry"
Subject: Stock IFS wheel travel
To:
> Any of you IFS people no longer running sway bars? Can
>you tell a difference on road? High speed cornering? Would better shocks
in
>the front help off-set this? I have the ProComp ones now, but I am
>considering 9000s for the front.
No swaybar, stock height, RS5000's, 30-11.5 TSL SX's. A little more lean
on freeway cloverleafs, easy to become accustomed to.
Todd
87 Toyota 4X4, EZ Lockers F/R, 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's, 15X8 AR 26's,
RS 5000's, Ramsey front bumper, Custom Nerfs, Custom rear bumper,
Custom body by Sierra Nevada.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 11:21:46 -0700
From: Brian Gallus
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Here's my .02 on the disconnects. I stopped running my sway bar about
2 months ago. I was disconnecting one side every time I went wheeling
and noticed a huge improvement, but like everyone else, got tired of
doing the labor. So, instead of working on trying to divise a
disconnect, which btw, won't work on an IFS toy (hey, no yelling yet) I
just removed it. I have 5" of combined Rancho suspension/body lift and
33" tires. The Runner now "dives" in corners a bit more and has a
little more understeer, but nothing heart wrenching. I'm actually MORE
comfortable in high speed cornering situations than I was before I
removed it. See the articles in FourWheeler about the two Full size
chevy solid axle swaps for another opinon. BTW, I think that Runners
will suffer a bit more than pickups simply because of the extra weight
involved.
Here's why an IFS swabar disconnect won't work *in MY opnion*. The
concept behind the disconnects is to un-tie the sway bar from both sides
of the axle and tie it "up" to the frame while wheeling. With an IFS,
this can't be done because tying the bar up with interfere with the
movement of the upper a-arms. The a-arms would hit the swaybar during
extension. Now, you could probably do a one side disconnect, but you
would need to physically remove that link in the process - otherwise you
will have interference with the upper and lower links during compression
on that side. Which would be the same as running a sway bar!? Catch
22?
All this talk about on road handling suffering is over rated. Your on
road handling suffered a bit when you installed that lift kit didn't it?
You adapted. Suffered a bit moe when you installed the larger tires and
ran a lower pressure, right? Got used to it. Added that locker and
caused a few more handling problems didn't you? No big deal! Add all
that up, and removing the sway bar is insignificant in my book. These
are TRUCKS, not Sports cars!
Incidentally, I ran through all of these arguments before I removed mine
as well. Toss the bar, crank the RS9000's up to '3' and let 'er buck!
BKG
87Runner, 3" Rancho, 2" body lift
33" Tires and NO swaybar!!!
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 13:14:16
From: Ed Ruf
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
AT 11:21 6/4/97 -0700, Brian Gallus wrote:
>All this talk about on road handling suffering is over rated. Your on
>road handling suffered a bit when you installed that lift kit didn't it?
I've got the Rancho IFS and rear lift on my '86 PU. I would have to
say, no, the handling did not suffer. In fact the changes to the front
suspension geometry made an improvement to the handling. I believe
using Rancho's recommended alignments specs also.
>You adapted. Suffered a bit moe when you installed the larger tires and
>ran a lower pressure, right?
Well, I've got 31" BFG/AT's on Centerline forged rims, but on the
street don't really run any lower pressure than I did with the factory
P225's. I do have to say that I specifically changed the backspacing on
the rims with widening the track in mind. Not a lot, but the tires do s
ck past the fenders by just under an inch ( Yeah, I know that's
technically illegal in most states.
I also have an '87 Runner with only 30" Cooper and KYB Gas Springs
which came off the PU when I lifted it. Now I know the Runner is
heavier, but I still say the PU overall handles better. It does
understeer a little more, but I believe that's more due to the great
front biased weight distribution.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 12:16:32 -0500
From: "Michael Rowe"
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To:
I agree. I removed mine when I first got it, put it on after all my work
down there was done and just removed it again last week when I pulled the
tranny pan. I left it off and can't tell much of a difference in on-road
handling. I'm a conservative on-road driver when in a truck so I feel safe
as can be. But I do know some people who drive like aj foyt in their trucks
so they are the ones who should watch out (besides us other drivers in
their way).
Michael Rowe
'88 4runner
- ----------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 17:42:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
BKG
87Runner, 3" Rancho, 2" body lift
33" Tires and NO swaybar!!! wrote:
<< Here's why an IFS swabar disconnect won't work *in MY opnion*. The
concept behind the disconnects is to un-tie the sway bar from both sides
of the axle and tie it "up" to the frame while wheeling. With an IFS,
this can't be done because tying the bar up with interfere with the
movement of the upper a-arms. The a-arms would hit the swaybar during
extension.>>
I forgot to say that I have a 4" ProComp lift on my truck, hence my sway
bear is lowered. In my case, your statement is not true. If you tie
them in line with the bumpstop bracket (look and you will see what I
mean) there should be no interference with the uper A arms. If anything,
the lower A arms may move up enough for the stationary lower portion of
the disconnected sway bar to contact the the upper portion of the
disconnected sway bar at full compression. I have eliminated this
problem by changing the lower stud mount to an eye mount, similar to
the eye of a shock. When disconnected, the lower portion can be made
to "lay down" out of the way.
<< Now, you could probably do a one side disconnect, but you
would need to physically remove that link in the process - otherwise you
will have interference with the upper and lower links during compression
on that side. Which would be the same as running a sway bar!? Catch
22?>>
I also considered a a system which you have a single disconnect on one
side, and 2 disconnects the other. The side with 2 would basically
remove the "body" of the of the sway bar link. You would disconnect
both sides and remove the body of one. reconnect the other and the
removal of the body prevents the binding you refer to. I passed this
up (for now) because I feel the design I have now is simpler and better.
<< All this talk about on road handling suffering is over rated. Your on
road handling suffered a bit when you installed that lift kit didn't it?
You adapted. >>
No. My truck handled better AFTER the lift.
<>
No again. Lower tire preasure is only a factor on the trail. Anyway,
that is not a permanent daily driving problem.
<< Added that locker and caused a few more handling problems didn't you?
No big deal! Add all that up, and removing the sway bar is insignificant
in my book.>>
First: ARB. That says it all on locker handling problems. Insignificant?
I think not. When I began building my truck, I had two things in mind:
Great trail vehicle - retain good pavement qualities. I feel it is kinda
silly to sacrafice road handling (where most of us spend 90% of our time)
for one inch more travel for that once a month thail ride. The quick
disconnects are the best of both worlds.
<< Incidentally, I ran through all of these arguments before I removed mine
as well. Toss the bar, crank the RS9000's up to '3' and let 'er buck!>>
I bet it is kinda stiff. But if that is what you want, go for it. I want
disconnects not just for the travel, but for the fact that no one makes
them. I guess my brain see a problem no one has the answer I want, so I
say "do it yourself".
20% function
80% satisfaction that I DID IT
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 4 Jun 1997 15:05:30 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
One thing I've done for my swaybar is I've replaced the bolt on the
end-link with threaded 3/8 rod and have installed wing nuts on both ends,
so its pretty easy to remove. I'm still not 100% happy with this setup;
I'd love a 'pull-a-pin' solution, but haven't come across or made a good
design yet. I kinda like the drilled-out turnbuckle idea though, or
something similar.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 14:26:10 -0400
From: Bob Bascom
Subject: sway bars
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Hi
all this talk about sway bars made me come up with an idea last night.
I built the disconnects this morning. I still havent tested them yet. In
my design I don't think i will have to tye the sway bar up out of the
way. I used a 5" long collar off a turn buckle that i bolted in place of
the bayonet. The inside is drilled out smooth so that a rod can ride up
and down in it. The rod is hooked to the sway bar. O lynch pin goes
through both to hold it still on the road. I'll take pictures if it
works.
Ryan Bascom
'87 4runner
bascom@erols.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 4 Jun 1997 15:55:30 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:44 PM
OFFICE MEMO Sway-bar Disconnects Date: 6/4/97
Brian Gallus wrote:
snip
>Incidentally, I ran through all of these arguments before I removed mine
>as well. Toss the bar, crank the RS9000's up to '3' and let 'er buck!
I pulled the sway bar off my live axle truck some years ago. I did
notice an increase in body roll, but running the 9000s and having
the ability to crank 'em up a notch really helps.
I also crank 'em up when I carry a camping load on the highway.
Helps keep the truck that much more stable.
Just a thought........
________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY) '91 4Runner
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 97 13:24:06
From: "Fisher, Gary"
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
With IFS myself, I got to thinking. Maybe we're looking at it from the
wrong perspective. I understand that 'tieing' the sway bar up might
interfere with the upper 'A' arm so maybe we dont need too. How about
the idea of having the sway bar cut directly in the centre and having
a sliding dog clutch which you could slide from left to right to either
engage or disengage. Sort of similar to the sliding fork that engages
the second driveshaft??? This way, all you would have to do would be
climb under the car and slide it over to unlock or slide it the other
way to join both halves of the sway bar back together.
What's everybody's thoughts?? It might work?
Just my $.02 from down under.
Gary Fisher
garyf@hpa.com.au
****************************************
* '89 Hilux Extra Cab 2.8 Turbo Diesel *
* 32' BFG MT ARB Bars all round *
****************************************
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 04 Jun 1997 21:47:22 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Fisher, Gary wrote:
How about the idea of having the sway
> bar cut directly in the centre and having a sliding dog clutch which
> you could slide from left to right to either engage or disengage.
Very good idea in theory, but I doubt you be able to make a
lockable/slideable connection capable of handling the torque going
through that point. The bar twists through that point. I think any
type of connection there would be the weak link in the bar and would
break. But like I said good idea. ;)
Scott
- --
Scott A. Wilson __o __o __o __o
Santa Clara, CA _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_ _'\<,_
swilson@pacbell.net (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_) (_)' (_)
http://users.uniserve.com/~rcomber/scottw/scottw.htm
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 15:06:19 -0400
From: Ed.Wong@astramerck.com
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: " - (052)Toy4x4 (a) tlca.org"
Fisher, Gary wrote:
How about the idea of having the sway
> bar cut directly in the centre and having a sliding dog clutch which
> you could slide from left to right to either engage or disengage.
Man - thats one of those why did *I* think of that ideas.
However, like Scott points out - splining the two sides
is NOT going to be easy. Also . I suppose that the collar would
affect the "twist" that the bar has, so where it gets placed is
important as well as its "affect" - it may end up making one
side "stiffer" than the other.
In this case - I do believe that it would be difficult to "spline"
the stock bar. And the cost of a custom bar is "prohibative"
although such a setup would be "trick".
If yer gonna get fancy, go to the race car "bladed" links.
The horiontal section of the bar that concects the top of
the bolts on the axles the part of the bar that goes across the
bottom of the truck is made of a "bladed" shaped piece of
metal. It is also free to rotate and is controlled by
a cable that goes to the cockpit.
The its flat up/down like =
then ths very stiff and transmits the axle motions as
twist to the sway bar.
when its rotated 90 degress and is flat vertical like -
then it bends and transmits NO rotation to the sway bar.
It sould also droop enouhg to simulate a disconnect??
anyway - cockpit adjustability (in theory)
EWong
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 16:12:54 -0700
From: Brian Gallus
Subject: Sway-bar issues.
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Sorry about the earlier comments (lift, tire pressure, etc). I wasn't
trying to imply that the trucks were actually worse off now that they
are modified (mine isn't either). I was just being sarcastic. The
point is that we all adjust to the changes in our vehicles as we modify
them. I DO drive like AJ every once and a while, and still think the
thing handles better.
Anyway, I hope that everyone figures this one out. Despite the fact
that I won't be using one, I'd REALLY love to see the results of the
disconnect projects.
Also, with the RS9000's set to 3, it's really NOT that stiff. I have a
friend with an 85 Runner, no sway bar, who runs his at 3 as well and
his is really soft!
later,
bkg
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 19:03:11 -0400
From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles"
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Gary,
I'm picturing in my mind what you're suggesting. This would definitely
take the sway bar completely out of the loop. The most effective way I
can see is to cut splines in each half after it's cut,
then use a sliding sleeve to connect and disconnect it. The only problem
is the cost of the machining. Splines ain't cheap, but using pins and
such would probably introduce too much slop into the system. Anybody?
- --
Butch Stiles
rokitman@erols.com
Just as it says, "Rocket Man"
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 20:08:50 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I thought of this too, but I passed up on it for several reasons. I thought
you could just cut splines in the bar after cutting it in two, but then your
coupling could not slide. If you could get it to work, you could get an
electric solenoid plunger to actuate/disengage it. I think it adds up to too
much work.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 5 Jun 1997 19:29:03 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jimmy Tom
Subject: Sway-bar Disconnects
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I was just thinking....
If one were to cut splines and use a sleeve of some type to
connect/disconnect, wouldn't the sleeve itself become the "sway bar" or
"sway sleeve?" That sleeve would have to be really thick or stiff (4130
or sumthin that was similar to the stiffness of the original) to
counteract the sway bars acting as big levers. Somebody
correct me if I'm on the wrong track, I ain't no engineer.
BTW, somebody mentioned the use of blade type swaybars a la NASCAR stuff
and I got to remembering the suspension setup on my old mustang w/ an
adjustable rear sway bar. It used poly blocks that basically slid 8" fore
and aft on the bar (at mounting points) parallel to the leafs. Worked
well, and when slid to the ends, it felt like it wasn't even there.
Jimmy Tom @ hsc.usc.edu
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 05 Jun 1997 22:19:25 -0800
From: david fritzsche
Subject: Sway Bar
To: "Toy4x4@tlca.org"
I have a 1990 ex-cab pickup with a Pro-Comp Stage II 4"
lift, Pro-Comp 9000's, 31" tires. I do not runn a sway bar
and I have been in a full panic stop mode from about 70 mph,
sterring around 2 cars and did not have any feeling that I
was going to lose it or roll it.I do not think you need that
thing and I don't need any more stuff hanging off the bottom
when I am wheeling, there is enough crap hanging there with
the IFS.
David Fritzsche
1990 Ex-Cab--V-6
Pro-Comp stage II lift and shocks
Warn 8000 winch
4.88 gears with ARB rear and Tru-Track front
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 8 Jun 1997 02:20:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: sway bar disconnects: installation report
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Let me say this is long. It is also about 1:20 in the morning here, so
pardon any ramblings. I will try to organize this better and scan some
pictures as soom as possible for those who are interested.
Ok, my friend went ahead and made some sway bar disconnects before I could
give him the drawings I made. No problem, we talked and the lengths matched
perfect. I have several things to say about these.
First, these are HEAVY DUTY. These things make those JKS disconnects look
wimpy. Another thing I like is the fact that he made them so that if they
broke ( believe me, not very likely) parts can be removed and replaced.
I will try to describe them to the best I can, since all I have is what he
told me.
The upper portion remains a stud type as the original links had. This is a
piece of all thread. The body is made of two large case hardened allen head
bolts (industrial type) that the threads have been turned off of on a lathe.
The top one was drilled and tapped to accept the all thread. the other end
of that same piece was also drilled to be the female end of the disconnect.
The lower turned bolt was drilled and tapped to accept the male stud. This
piece is a bolt with thread and non-threaded area near the head. It was
screwed into the lower turned bolt, then the head was cut off and a bevel was
put on. The other end of the turned bolt was welded to a 1" i.d. piece of
tubing. All joints are drilled and secured with rolled pins(?) to secure
them but allow removal.
This is the part that we are still unsure will work. A hole was drilled
through to accept a pin. a nut was welded on one side, and a threaded bolt
is used in place of a pin. I large washer was welded to the head of the
pin-bolt to simplify removal.
The upper stud re-used the stock type bushings and washers. The lower mount
was changed to an eye. This was done by cutting a rectangular tube in half
and drilling holes in the sides and bottom. The bottom uses a bolt that has
had the head cut off, and welded to the lower eye mount (cut rectangular
tubing). This was bolted in where the lower mount was. A bolt was run
through the lower mount and the eye of the disconnect link.
The change to a lower eye mount was necessary to make reinstalation line-up
possible. The stock lower eye bushings were re-used and ground down some to
reduce their diameter and allow both to be pressed into the eye. The use of
a lower eye mount also allows the lower portion od the disconnect to "lay
down", eliminating any binding or similar problems.
There is some problem with re-attachment. The truck must be level to allow
both pins to be installed. Not a serious problem, but a problem.
I used polly bushings, and the sway bar does not need to be tied up. This
may change under severe jarring or bumps. The poly seemed to hold the bar
solidly in place.
I apologize if this does not make sense. I just wanted to let you know what
was happening. Let me know if I can explain this any better.
And now, my pillow is calling me....
David
DRM033@aolcom
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 12 Jun 97 15:47:55 MST
From: chott@aicd.sps.mot.com (Jim Chott)
Subject: Track bar question
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Jay wrote:
>Jim Chott runs a fixed bar off the top of the pumpkin on his
>4Runner. Works quite well for him though I believe he is
>still running his overload bars with Downey springs which
>keeps the packs more stable under acceleration. I think that
>system would be too "loose" for me with my softer springs
>and lack of overload bar.
It works okay, but you have to do some welding to your axle
housing. I did the welding while I was putting the Detroit
in. I am running the Downeys with the stock load leaf.
It appears to have a LOT of stress on it, though. I have
broken a 0.5" heim joint and stressed a 0.625" one enough
that it has about 1/8" of slop in it after a year or so
of driving. I also have problems keeping the bolts tight
that hold it to the crossmember. In fact, I had to remove
it while in Moab this summer after losing the nut and
having it clank around.
To sum up, I am considering going with one like Jay's
since I think it is more effective.
Jim Chott
rzaa80@email.mot.com
1985 4Runner
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Jun 1997 09:56:58 -0600
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: front sway bar disconnect (wow what a difference)
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
I have been running a 4 inch suspension lift now for about 9 years. I
extended my sway bar links at the time and never felt like removing it.
The other day I disconnected it just to see what it would do. I was
amazed at the difference (and I have some very stiff springs). It
compressed the shock all the way, so I removed it and it just happen to
be about the limit. It probably gained 3-4 inches of compression and a
few on droop. Luckly I have not been running without it though or I
would have no fender behind my front tire. With it compressed all the
way only the slightest turn my tire would hit the fender. With the sway
bar hooked up my tires would rub on full turn, full compression.
Tony
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 02 Oct 1997 21:50:02 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Sway bar disconnects
To: Barney McNamara
Barney McNamara wrote:
>
> Eric,
> I appreciate your sharing your ideas on the sway bar disconnect
> design. I looked into it, and bought the parts to convert mine.
> I have already replaced my endlinks with some longer ones I got
> from Nick, since the stock ones bent from over-extension due to
> my longer shackles. When I considered your ideas, it seemed I
> could go real cheap, by just replacing the tube spacer that
> separates my bushings now, and sets the height of the sway bar
> from the axle (solid axle.) My longer spacer is about 4 1/2" long.
> So I figured I could replace it with the shaft collar - spring -
> washer - hitch pin assembly, which will provide the same function
> as the spacer in the on-road condition. I can drill holes in my
> current endlinks and use the double nuts I have on there now,
> rather than the nylock nuts you mentioned.
>
> My parts list and cost:
> 2 - 3/8 shaft collars - $1.65 each
> 2 - long, weak springs - .60 each
> 2 - 3/8 fender washers - .11 each
> 2 - 5/32 hitch pins - .40 each
>
> total cost - $5.52 (even cheaper than diff breathers!)
>
> I refined the design by choosing fender washers, and splurged
> at 11 cents each, instead of 4 cents, because I figured it would
> be easier to reach in and push down the springs with a bigger
> washer, when I replace the hitch pins.
Thats a good idea. I've thought of using a fnder washer or even a custom
thing that would make it easier to retract the spring for pin
insertion...
> My only question is, do the hitch pins hold up to the force put
> on them by the sway bar when in the on-road configuration?
So far, yes, and I've been beating on them extra hard. I was concerned
with that myself. If I manage to break them, I will go to a marine store
and get some strong hitch pins like the ones that hold up the mast on my
sailboat. These can take a lot of shear force.
>
> Now I just need the time to take out the endlink bolts, and
> drill the holes.
Its not too hard, depending on the grade of hardware. I'm using grade 2
bolts now, which is easy to drill. An earlier prototype used stainless,
which was quite a bit harder to drill. Let me know if/how these work out
for you. I know my instructions are a little convoluted...
------------------------------
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