Wheel Travel

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Date: Mon, 02 Jun 1997 00:55:38 -0500
From: Sheldon 
Subject: Wheel Travel
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

Sorry for the long post I'm really hungry for some info and opinions.

1. After spending most of this weekend putting new springs on my truck, I 
was tossing in bed pondering the best way to fab some mounts for my 
RS 9012's when a question came to mind. I suppose this is kind of 
directed at Jay but I'm intrested in everybodys thoughts. I remember 
reading all about the mazda rear spring conversion that Jay and Jack 
have done to their trucks. Please correct me if I'm wrong but I seem to 
recall reading that with his old springs (Downey) he had 10 inches of 
travel and with the new setup he now has 14 inches.
Okay here is where I'm getting lost What is meant by travel? I would 
think the range of motion of the axle/tire to move up and drop down.
At least thats what I thought. But looking at my RS 9012 "sitting in my 
lap as I type (big grin)" I measure (eye to eye) about 1' 7" fully 
compressed and around 2' 8" inches fully extended which makes for roughly
13 inches of motion. Heres' where I'm confused I thought Jay told me he 
had 9012's in the rear, so how does he get 14" of travel? Is travel the 
diff between one wheel fully compressed "bumpstop" and the other at full 
extension? Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, dunno but I am a little 
confused. maybe 14 is with the rubber bushings and everything else 
streched out to the limit.

2.Looking at my shock another question as well. Moving the shock around 
it seems to work just as well upside down or right side up, has anyone 
ever mounted them with the shock body on top and if so how did it work? 
I would think upside (shock body on top)down might protect them a little 
more, I can see all kinds of little dings and dents in my old shocks 
which have the body on the bottom.

3. Using my new rear Downey 2 inch over springs in conjunction with 3 
inch over shackles, (playing around in the garage) without my old shocks
attached of course. It managed to get almost a foot of droop "like 11 3/4 
inches", so with only about 13 nches of travel availible in the shock 
"I think if I' getting the term travel correct" what's better droop or 
compression? I have about 5 inches of compression available "actually 
like 4 1/2 but th stops will squish down some" would it be better to 
fab longer stops say to allow only 2 or 3 inches up to get better droop 
or should I stay with 5 inches up and 8 or so inches down? I know it will 
all depend on what kind of wheeling I'm doing. I live in mud country and 
am getting a little tired of replacing U joints every month and dreaming 
about buying 300.00 a piece tires that  my motor won't turn worth a squat,
so I want to build this rig as an all around go anywhere type of vehicle. 
I do plan on going to the Kentucky challenge in Aug and maybe another 
road trip in Sept or Oct if Kentucky goes well.


Thanks for reading my post

Sheldon
sgard@flent.com
http://www.flnet.com/~sgard/

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Date: Mon, 2 Jun 1997 01:38:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Wheel Travel
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org

In a message dated 97-06-02 01:19:50 EDT, you write:

>fully extended which makes for roughly 13 inches of motion. Heres' 
>where I'm confused I thought Jay told me he had 9012's in the rear, 
>so how does he get 14" of travel? Is travel the diff between one wheel 
>fully compressed "bumpstop" and the other at full extension? 
>Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, dunno but I am a little confused.

I pondered this at first also, but I finally realized why I was confused.
 Yes, those shocks may only have 13" of travel, but the difference is 
where you measure the travel.   Put your elbow on the table.  Raise your 
hand so that your wrist is 13" off the table.  Now measure how far your 
finger tips are from the table..  This is the same as the axle and shock 
mounting position.  

David
DRM033 

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Date: 2 Jun 1997 10:03:36 -0700
From: "Jay Kopycinski" 
Subject: Wheel Travel
To: "Toyota 4x4 List" 

                      Subject:                              Time:  9:34 AM
  OFFICE MEMO         Wheel Travel                          Date:  6/2/97

Sheldon  wrote:

>After spending most of this weekend putting new springs on my 
>truck, I was tossing in bed pondering the best way to fab some mounts 
>for my RS 9012's when a question came to mind.

>I suppose this is kind of directed at Jay but I'm intrested in everybodys 
>thoughts. I remember reading all about the mazda rear spring conversion 
>that Jay and Jack have done to their trucks. Please correct me if I'm wrong 
>but I seem to recall reading that with his old springs (Downey) he had 10 
>inches of travel and with the new setup he now has 14 inches.

Yes, with the Downey springs I had 10 inches of travel. With the Mazda
springs I have 14" of travel, BUT I can currently only use about 12" of 
travel in articulation because my tire in compression will hit the inside
of the fender and prevent the droop tire from dropping to the full 14".

>Okay here is where I'm getting lost What is meant by travel?
>I would think the range of  motion of the axle/tire to move up 
>and drop down. At least thats what I thought.

I make all my measurements at the bump stops. I can fully compress
my springs onto the bump stops, so I make travel measurements by
measuring how far I can separate the bump stops on one side.

>But looking at my RS 9012 "sitting in my lap as I type (big grin)" 
>I measure (eye to eye) about 1' 7" fully compressed and around 2' 8"
>inches fully extended which makes for roughly 13 inches of motion. 

Yes, I think Rancho lists them as 18.94 inches to 32.6ish inches.

>Heres' where I'm confused I thought Jay told me he had 9012's in the rear, 
so how does he get 14" of travel?

Yes, I run 9012s all around. Remember that when you lay a shock at an
angle, the vertical movement of the axle can exceed the travel of the 
shock. In my case, I can probably move the axle up and down 15-16 inches
with the shock travel I have, but the springs limit it to about 14".

>Is travel the diff between one wheel fully compressed "bumpstop" and 
>the other at full extension? Perhaps I'm splitting hairs here, dunno but 
>I am a little confused. maybe 14 is with the rubber bushings and everything 
>else streched out to the limit.

I don't believe in that tip of tire travel measurement crap. In those cases,
just changing axle track, tire width, or wheel offset can magically change
your travel numbers......what BS. Ramp numbers are also subjective in this 
case. I am strictly measuring bump stop travel which should translate
equally to measurements on all vehicles. Granted, all the other factors
can determine crawling prowess, but provide nothing with which to make
A/B comparisons.

>Looking at my shock another question as well. Moving the shock around it 
>seems to work just as well upside down or right side up, has anyone ever 
>mounted them with the shock body on top and if so how did it work? 

Mine and Jack's are both mounted can-up with no problems. 

>I would 
>think upside (shock body on top)down might protect them a little more, 
>I can see all kinds of little dings and dents in my old shocks which have 
>the body on the bottom.

Yep.

>Using my new rear Downey 2 inch over springs in conjunction with 
>3 inch over shackles, (playing around in the garage) without my old 
>shocks attached of course. It managed to get almost a foot of droop 
"like 11 3/4 inches", so with only about 13 inches of travel availible 
in the shock "I think if I' getting the term travel correct" what's 
better droop or compression?

Depends on your application. For rock crawling, most people feel
that greater droop numbers are better.

>I have about 5 inches of compression available "actually like 
>4 1/2 but the stops will squish down some" would it be better 
>to fab longer stops say to allow only 2 or 3 inches up to get 
>better droop or should I stay with 5 inches up and 8 or so inches 
>down?

You really have no choice here. Your droop will be limited by the
spring/shackle length. So limiting your compression travel will
only unnecessarily reduce your overall travel. To gain greater
droop, you will need to increase spring length and/or run flatter
springs......or a buggy spring......or two-link shackle, etc.

>I know it will all depend on what kind of wheeling I'm doing. I live 
>in mud country and am getting a little tired of replacing U joints 
>every month and dreaming about buying 300.00 a piece tires that 
>my motor won't turn worth a squat, so I want to build this rig as 
an all around go anywhere type of vehicle. I do plan on going to the 
>Kentucky challenge in Aug and maybe another road trip in Sept or 
>Oct if Kentucky goes well.

For a more all around truck, I think the 5 up, 6-8 down will work 
well. That is about what you you're stuck with anyway with a
4-5" lift on a Toy truck.....given the frame design. I think this
ratio works well all around anyway.

Good luck. Hope this helps explain some of your questions.

________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski    '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)   '91 4Runner
Gilbert, AZ
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club            TLCA #3243
________________________________________