Tires
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: OFF ROAD TIRE WOES!
From: tlmorris@ti.com (Terry Morris)
Date: 12 Jun 1996 18:16:17 GMT
In article <31BDFE06.5091@cts.com>, jerryb@cts.com says...
>
>PJ wrote:
>>
>> In article <4phq8q$q3e@crl5.crl.com>, shdnlite@crl.com (Stuart Gold)
wrote:
>>
>> > I go off road int the desert and mountains near death valley at least
>> > twice a year for the lat four years. I've had at least three flat tires
>> > the last one was this weekend on a tire that had only 483 miles on it.
It
>> > seems that I get side punctures on rocks. What is the best way of
>> > handling this terrain? Are there tires that have better side wall
>> > protection? Any ideas????.......Stuart
>>
>> Are you running BFG T/A AllTerrains? If not ...get some. BF Goodrich
>> uses "Tri-Gard" sidewalls. THis means they have 3 plies in the sidewall
>> instead of 2, and 5 plies in the tread instead of 4...much tougher design
>> than any other tire...Try'em!
>>
>> --
>> Shaken, Not Stirred
>> pj the Jeep Man
>
>Do you have any experience on how the Wrangler GS-A tires hold up
>(30x9.5) in such conditions? And others besides PJ, please no
>conjecture or comments in general about Wranglers, there are too many
>different types and levels of the Wrangler series for a general comment
>to be of much value. I'm looking for hard experience specifically on
>the GS-A version of the Wrangler tire.
>--
>Jerry Bransford
>PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
>The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
Saw a GS-A open up like a can on a trail. I've seen the Goodyear Wrangler's
do the same. I agree with PJ, if you have that much problem, go with the
BFG. I have 30" Dunlop RV's and thusfar haven't had problems. BFG's and
anything else seems to do better the the Goodyear's (ask at any trail met).
My opinion, hope it helps.
Terry
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: OFF ROAD TIRE WOES!
From: pjack@tesser.com (PJ)
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 1996 22:25:36 -0600
In article <4pmvj6$hhr@crchh327.rich.bnr.ca>, David Woodsmall
wrote:
> Look into 50 pound, 6 ply (4 on the siedwalls?) Bridgstone Desert Dueler
tires.
> The have an agressive tread, are quiet on the highway, as there is a LOT of
> rubber in the tire, I and my friends have never had any flats.
I would agree...the Dueler is an excellent tire. Some of the guys around
here won't buy them because they're "not american". But they are TOUGH
tires.
--
Shaken, Not Stirred
pj the Jeep Man
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: OFF ROAD TIRE WOES!
From: "M. Whatley"
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 01:40:31 -0700
Obi-Wan wrote:
>
> 12.50's on 7.5" rims? I very well could be mistaken, but I always
> thought that a certain tire width required a certain rim width.
> Is it possible to put 31x10.5's on the stock 15x7 rims on a '95 YJ?
> If multiple rim widths are usable, what are the pros & cons of going
> with a wider rim?
Manufacturers design their tire for an optimumn rim width. It is
quite possible to use a narrower than recommended rim on any given tire.
Itdoesn't protect the sidewal as the previous poster stated (at least in my
experience) but more protection is given to the edge (bead area) of the wheel
as the exagerated bulge in the sidewall extends further out than the rim
itself. My experience is that a wider rim which causes less protrusion of the
sidewal will offer some large degree of protection agains slashes to the
sidewall. It's kinda a tradeoff either way
I have run 33x12.R15 tires on 8 inch rims for years, on a Nissan
pickup, a Toyota Land Cruiser FJ40 and a Toyota Land Cruiser FJ55. Generally
speaking you want to run a little less air pressure than you would with a
wider rim, but once that is taken into consideration there seems to be no
adverse effect on tire life, performance, or wear characteristics.
Matter of fact I ran both 31x10.5s and 32x11.5s on the Nissan with
15x7 inch rims. No adverse wear whatsoever...
I have friends who run 30 and 33x9.5R15s on factory 6.5 inch rims.
Works fine.
What I learned as a general rule of thumb was to try to have the rim at
least 75% as wide as the tire. Of course when I learned that they didn't
specify if it was the tread width or the section width you should worry
about... I have tended lean toward using the tread width (nominal), and then
pushing the 75% part just a little toward the narrow side.
When running the tire at reduced air pressure during soft condition
off road travel, the narrower rim will be a slight disadvantage, as it will
not allow quite as large a foot print. In real life off road use I have never
found this to be a real problem. (I routinely travel up to a hundred miles
from the road over rocks, boulders, hardpack, sand, bogs, tundra, forest,
beaver ponds and multiple river crossings. About the only thing we don't deal
with in Alaska is desert and "Slickrock")
Anyway,
The narrower rim is slightly lighter...
Make sure you take any clearance issues into consideration when you look
at using your stock rims for 31x10.5R15 tires. You might have to use a wider
rim with more positive offset to avoid interference with your suspension
components. Don't know abouy YJs as I'm allergic to jeeps :) .
I know a lot of the "Experts" are going to disagree with my thoughts
and tell you to use 10 inch rims, but I know what has worked for me and the
folks that I depend on in the bush, and the 7.5s should work just fine (again
assuming no clearance problems with the suspension.)
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.makers.jeep+willys,rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: OFF ROAD TIRE WOES!
From: mlueders@mail.wco.com (Mike)
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 1996 18:05:08 GMT
Jerry Bransford wrote:
>PJ wrote:
>Do you have any experience on how the Wrangler GS-A tires hold up
>(30x9.5) in such conditions? And others besides PJ, please no
>conjecture or comments in general about Wranglers, there are too many
>different types and levels of the Wrangler series for a general comment
>to be of much value. I'm looking for hard experience specifically on
>the GS-A version of the Wrangler tire.
>--
>Jerry Bransford
>PP-ASEL, KC6TAY, C.A.P.
>The Zen hotdog... make me one with everything!
I've put over 80k miles on GSA's. 50k first set, 30k+ on present.
These were on a full size GMC extended cab 4x4.
I've had two flats, one nail and one resulting from side wall damage
ie.. running up against the end of a metal culvert hidden by deep
bushes.
I've had the truck in adobe mud, all tires will load up in it around
here, need chains, they were ok.
In snow/ice they work great on my truck, been across frozen lakes
etc..
Rocks and loose gravel, good bite without excessive *float*.
Sand, good to ok, I'm not running real wide treads.
I've had the truck in water up to the head lights in mild currents
with loose gravel base, the tires worked ok.
The truck is used for constuction and recreation, fishing/camping
etc....
Around 120k miles currently
First set of tires were stock Uniroyal's, noisy and poor offroad
performance.
The GSA tires are *real* good all rounders (IMHO).
They are quiet on hiway and do well offroad.
They handle good at high speed ;-}
They don't skid all over in the rain.
One can expect 40k+ miles out of them easily.
You could go with a more offroad specific tire, but at the expense of
rideabillity on road.
BTW: I have noticed on several occations a "Big blue and well know
Dodge truck" running SCORE events with GSA's, uncut pattern to boot.
.02
Mike
KC6WSL
S.A.R
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: All Terrain Tires
From: "M. Whatley"
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 1996 21:56:15 -0700
Frank Di Giovanni wrote:
>
> Has anybody had any experience with Big O Tire brand all terrain tires?I'm
> looking to buy an all-terrain tire but can't choose. The Big O Tire brand is
> called " BIG FOOT AT ". It has a pretty good warranty.Any comment would be
> appreciated.
> Thanks in advance, Frank
I ran a set of Big Os in 31x10.5R15s on a Nissan pickup. I put over
40,000 miles on them. Mainly highway (round trip from Anchorage to Oklahoma
City twice), and rural/suburban commuting. Fair bit of trail use as well (not
much hard rock use). Even in the mud terrain pattern they were plenty quiet
and smooth. I have nothing but good to say about them.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: montgdj <>
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 11:47:11 GMT
I had 31" BFG AT's on the Toy truck I just sold. I had 10,000
miles on them......and I never had a problem with lots of snow,
sticky mud, etc.....they wear very well...I estimate I could
have gotten 40-50K out of them.....
Derek
>==========Andrew J Stack, 6/26/96==========
>
>I've got a '95 toy. P/U 4cyl. and am looking to upgrade tires.
The thing
>is that I don't want to lose my low end torque by putting 31x10.5's so I
>am thinking about 30x9.5's or smaller (larger than stock). I do much
>highway driving, and I am in the snow and sometimes a little mud
>from time
>to time.
> I hear that BF's A/T's clog up in the snow/mud and aren't very
>useful in the rain (i.e slip). But that the BF's M/T's in 9.5's don't
>clog and are more useful on the highway (larger tread wear). I
>don't want
>to much road noise either.
> What are your opinions? A/T's or M/T's? Any info is welcome.
>thanks
>-andrew
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: "Michael H. Smith"
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 07:54:44 -0700
Andrew J Stack wrote:
>
> I've got a '95 toy. P/U 4cyl. and am looking to upgrade tires. The thing
> is that I don't want to lose my low end torque by putting 31x10.5's so I
> am thinking about 30x9.5's or smaller (larger than stock). I do much
> highway driving, and I am in the snow and sometimes a little mud from time
> to time.
> I hear that BF's A/T's clog up in the snow/mud and aren't very
> useful in the rain (i.e slip). But that the BF's M/T's in 9.5's don't
> clog and are more useful on the highway (larger tread wear). I don't want
> to much road noise either.
> What are your opinions? A/T's or M/T's? Any info is welcome.
> thanks
> -andrew
I just replaced my 32x11.5 Mud's with A/T's last night. I can honestly
say that I would never, EVER run with Mud's again. For as much highway
driving as I do, I couldn't recommend the Mud's for several reasons:
a) high noise level at all speeds;
b) very stiff ride, they don't absorb much road shock;
c) they are difficult to balance once they get some mileage on them
(washboard effect above 45mph).
The A/T's brought me home without any problems in the rain last night,
so I can't confirm slipping problems on wet pavement. As for mud and
snow, I have yet to find out. But for road driving, they're very quiet
(quieter than the Goodyear's on our Altima). They are smooth (feels
like less rolling resistance), and absorb bumps much better than the
Mud's.
michael
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: ryna10@email.sps.mot.com (Jay Kopycinski)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 09:47:10 -0700
In article <31D3F234.47D@ibeam.jf.intel.com>, "Michael H. Smith"
wrote:
> I just replaced my 32x11.5 Mud's with A/T's last night. I can honestly
> say that I would never, EVER run with Mud's again. For as much highway
> driving as I do, I couldn't recommend the Mud's for several reasons:
>
> a) high noise level at all speeds;
> b) very stiff ride, they don't absorb much road shock;
> c) they are difficult to balance once they get some mileage on them
> (washboard effect above 45mph).
>
> The A/T's brought me home without any problems in the rain last night,
> so I can't confirm slipping problems on wet pavement. As for mud and
> snow, I have yet to find out. But for road driving, they're very quiet
> (quieter than the Goodyear's on our Altima). They are smooth (feels
> like less rolling resistance), and absorb bumps much better than the
> Mud's.
>
> michael
I pretty much agree with most of what you said. However, do realize
that you are now running brand new tires. They will run very smooth
when new. Even Muds are very quite and smooth when new, but after about
5k miles they do start to get louder and start to have a bit of thump
when you come to a stop. They usually need to be rebalanced every
once in a while as they wear, depending on how you use them.
The ATs are nicer on the road, but the MTs will run circles around
them in the rocks.....just depends on your priorities.
-----------------------------------------------
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
Arizona Lo-Rangers ASA4WDC UFWDA
Fun Country Fourwheelers SWFWDA TLCA
-----------------------------------------------
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: Park Owens
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:00:26 -0700
Jay Kopycinski wrote:
>
> In article <31d2693d.174583852@news.demon.co.uk>, dingbat@codesmiths.com
> (Andy Dingley) wrote:
>
> snip
> > MTs are off-road tyres that are just a bit too far overboard for much
> > tarmac use. They're OK at slow speeds, but if you drive fast on them,
> > the rubber heats up a _lot_ and I'd expect wear to accelerate. Any of
> > these "big block" tyres (Michelin XCLs too) is a nightmare on wet
> > tarmac, because they just can't clear the water out of the way.
>
> My MTs seem to work fine up to about 85 mph.....is this fast?
>
> As far as mileage....I can get about 50-60k miles out of a set on
> my Toy truck.
>
> -----------------------------------------------
> Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
> Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
>
> Arizona Lo-Rangers ASA4WDC UFWDA
> Fun Country Fourwheelers SWFWDA TLCA
> -----------------------------------------------
I agree with Jay. I've been running 33x12.50x15 MTs on my '76 FJ-40 for two
years now and have noticed no heat build-up when driving highways. On the
contrary, I felt that there was less heat build-up than other tires. I've
currently got 25,000 miles on mine and the tread looks fine. The sides are
another issue since I do a lot of rock crawling at 8-10 psi.
Just my $.02
--
Park Owens '76 FJ-40 '88 FJ-62 TLCA 2569
powens@silver.sdsmt.edu Dakota Territory Cruisers
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: ryna10@email.sps.mot.com (Jay Kopycinski)
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 08:06:55 -0700
In article <31d3e0cb.9106400@news.demon.co.uk>, dingbat@codesmiths.com
(Andy Dingley) wrote:
> The moving finger of ryna10@email.sps.mot.com (Jay Kopycinski) having
> written:
>
> >My MTs seem to work fine up to about 85 mph.....is this fast?
>
> Depends on diameter. How hot do they get ?
I run 33s and they don't seem to get hot on the highway.
-----------------------------------------------
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
Arizona Lo-Rangers ASA4WDC UFWDA
Fun Country Fourwheelers SWFWDA TLCA
-----------------------------------------------
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: Tom Forhan
Date: Fri, 28 Jun 1996 12:25:35 -0400
Andrew J Stack wrote:
> (snip) I hear that BF's A/T's clog up in the snow/mud and aren't very useful in the
>rain (i.e slip). But that the BF's M/T's in 9.5's don't clog and are more useful on
>the highway (larger tread wear). I don't want to much road noise either.
I've put 12000 miles on a set of A/Ts bought last summer, including one cross
country, Death Valley in August, 22" of fresh snow, rocky trails in the Blue Ridge,
and mudpits at the Range Rover test area. They are fantasic all around tires.
Road noise is low, and I never had any problem with mud or snow clogging, though
in bad situations I de-air to about 15PSI. They are great in rain, maybe because
they do not have the big blocks of more extreme tires, and water is forced out or up
into the tread.
Lots of pictures of these tires in use at
http://pwp.usa.pipeline.com/~tforhan/swhome.htm
Just so you know, of the various photos and links, both the silver and burgundy vehicles
are running the A/Ts.
Get 'em!
Tom F.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Another BF tire ques..
From: turnerjd@aston.ac.uk (JD TURNER)
Date: Mon, 1 Jul 1996 19:21:57 GMT
Jay Kopycinski (ryna10@email.sps.mot.com) wrote:
: In article <31d2693d.174583852@news.demon.co.uk>, dingbat@codesmiths.com
: (Andy Dingley) wrote:
:
: snip
: > MTs are off-road tyres that are just a bit too far overboard for much
: > tarmac use. They're OK at slow speeds, but if you drive fast on them,
: > the rubber heats up a _lot_ and I'd expect wear to accelerate. Any of
: > these "big block" tyres (Michelin XCLs too) is a nightmare on wet
: > tarmac, because they just can't clear the water out of the way.
Do you guys get the BFG Trak-Edge over there?
I run a LWB Landrover on them, and they get me through the thickest
english mud, and dont seem too bad on rocks. They are also quite happy
on wet tarmac. not sure, but I think that these are what the new L-R defenders
come with. (size 750R16 ) If you find anyone else with them find out their
opinion of them, but I wouldnt swap for anything except the michelin XZY
for propper expedition work (africa/india), and will probably, if the BFGs
last 50K (which the XZYs are reputed to do) will stick to these
for long distance work.
I quite freq get up to 85MPH in the LWB and they dont seem to heat up much
(they are slightly warm to the touch after 250 miles at UK motorway speed 70MPH)
Anyway these are a good comprommise and I would recomend them to anybody.
Jon
76 swb 2286 Landrover SIII
67 LWB 2625 Landrover SIIA
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: Roger Harris
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 01:06:45 -0400
Hi,
I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
important to me)
Also, what is the largest size I can get without rubbing on a stock
suspension. One dealer told me 30x9.5-15 and another told me
31x10.5-15. If anyone knows for sure or has experience I would
greatly appreciate any advice
Thanks in advance,
Roger
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: Grant Johnson
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 13:00:27 -0700
Roger Harris wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
> for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
> shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
> the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
> either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
> road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
> important to me)
>
> Also, what is the largest size I can get without rubbing on a stock
> suspension. One dealer told me 30x9.5-15 and another told me
> 31x10.5-15. If anyone knows for sure or has experience I would
> greatly appreciate any advice
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Roger
I have the BFG's and love them. They corner great on the road. I have
35000 miles on them, and the only really bad wear is that the letters are
no longer white on the sidewall. The grab great in snow, float in sand,
don't hydroplane (like many AT's do) and shed mud better than any other
AT on our trips and even many muds. The downsides are $$$$ and $$$$.
Other than that, I love them. I have 30's on my '85 (solid axle), and
with the steering to lock going backwards, sometimes the tores catch the
rubber mud curtain up front, so I don't think much larger would be good.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: alnev@midtown.net (A.J.)
Date: Sun, 07 Jul 1996 22:43:49 GMT
> Roger Harris wrote:
> I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
> for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
> shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
> the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
> either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
> road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
> important to me)
>
> Also, what is the largest size I can get without rubbing on a stock
> suspension. One dealer told me 30x9.5-15 and another told me
> 31x10.5-15. If anyone knows for sure or has experience I would
> greatly appreciate any advice
31x10.50s ought to fit all the later model Toyotas (back to 1989?),
but the differential gearing should be changed if your truck came with
225s. The 225 stock Desert Duelers were all I ever used on my '86 and
they never let me down. Each set lasted about 40,000 miles and they
were much cheaper to replace than bigger sizes. Unless you do a lot
of hard-core four-wheeling, larger tires will just hurt acceleration
and MPG, and put more stress on the suspension.
Note that for every 2" of tire height, you're only getting 1" of
usable (below the axle) ground clearance. The clearance on a
Toyota with 31x10.50s is about 1" higher than with 225s, but I've
yet to be in an off-road situation where the lack of that extra inch
stopped me from making a passage.
- A.J.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: marauder72@aol.com (Marauder72)
Date: 7 Jul 1996 23:20:43 -0400
The BFG All-Terrains are your best bet. They are great offroad, extremely
tough and they handle better than other AT's on the road, wet or dry.
If your Toyota is 89 or newer, then you can go to a maximum of 31" without
ANY rubbing. 32's will fit and won't rub unless you do alot of bottoming
out. If it's 88 or older, then 30's are the max you should go. Remember
one thing, though-if you're going up more than 1 tire size, then plan on
re-gearing. Stock Toys get sluggish if you put on bigger tires without
compensating with lower gears.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: David Woodsmall
Date: 8 Jul 1996 14:56:54 GMT
I prefer the six ply, 50 PSI Bridgestone Dessert Duelers.
They are great off-road, in the rain, and very quiet on the highway (I
drive them at 75 MPH, but notice no noise at any speed). They have a nice
aggressive tread.
I have also done well in the sand (aired down, of course).
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: John_White@cc.wdi.disney.com (John White)
Date: 8 Jul 1996 21:14:25 GMT
In article <31DF45E5.166B@nando.net>, Roger Harris says:
>
>Hi,
>
> I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
>for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
>shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
>the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
>either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
>road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
>important to me)
>
> Also, what is the largest size I can get without rubbing on a stock
>suspension. One dealer told me 30x9.5-15 and another told me
>31x10.5-15. If anyone knows for sure or has experience I would
>greatly appreciate any advice
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Roger
I've got Michelin ATX 235's on my 4-cyl. '90 4X4 Xtracab.
It came with 225s. I love the Michelins. Wet road traction is great.
Important for Florida.
John
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: bryans@radix.net (Bryan Saylor)
Date: Tue, 09 Jul 1996 01:05:30 GMT
>> I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
>> for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
>> shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
>> the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
>> either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
>> road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
>> important to me)
I have an '89 Toyota with BFG ALL-Terrain's (31x10.5-15) and I'll
never go with ANYTHING else for my truck. I've had them for over
5 years (60,000 miles) and have used them for mostly highway driving.
They,ve done well for me in sand, mud, and through very rocky
terrain. The sidewalls are very thick, and a pretty deep gash I
received early on never caused a flat. As you may expect, the
tires have about hit they're life expectancy and will be replaced by a
new set before winter. (I forgot to mention they're great in the
snow!)
Bryan
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Offroad tires
From: turnerjd@aston.ac.uk (JD TURNER)
Date: Mon, 8 Jul 1996 16:43:08 GMT
Andy Dingley (dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: The moving finger of mike@headwaters.com (Mike Graham) having written:
:
: >good old-fashioned jeep tires. You know the ones, with
: >lugged treads about two inches thick?
:
: We'd call them "bar grips" in the UK. Still available, mainly through
: mil surplus. Watch the age on them though - some are so old they've
: perished and won't hold air.
:
: They're not much good. They do work in deep mud, but they're pretty
: awful on tarmac. If you choose a more modern design, like a Michelin
: XCL (the UK's standard army fitment these days) you get all the mud
: traction of a bar grip, but much improved road handling. Firestone
: SATs are a similar tyre, probably closer to a bar grip, and well
: regarded by the UK trials crowd. Both XCL & SAT patterns are available
: as remoulds at half the price of new tyres.
I second that. The Bar grips are about the worst tyres I have ever had the
missfortune to have on a vehicle. They are peticularly bad on wet tarmac,
and at the first opportunity the vehicle will lose all grip and skid half
way over any junction.
The XCL has been replaced by the G90 (agoodyear I think) for serious off
road stuff, these are (apparently) quite good on the tarmac, and brilliant
in the mud, and they are now available to civilians. Not recomended to people
who do a reasonable road milage though. LRO magazine did a bit on these a year
or so ago.
:
: Huge tyre width is an American aberration. It's one of those penis
: size things.
:
Try explaining why its no good having wide tyres, and most people look at you
as if what you say is a load of crap, and more tyre=more grip.
nyway, just my .02
Jon
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: d00n@cts.com (Kevin Spousta)
Date: 10 Jul 1996 19:15:49 GMT
In <31DF45E5.166B@nando.net> Roger Harris writes:
> I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
>for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
>shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
>the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on
>either. I'll be doing mostly road driving but do occasionally get off
>road. (Oh yea, getting max amount of miles on a set is of course
>important to me)
I run the All Terrains on my 4Runner and as of this writing, I have over 62K
mile on 'em with another good 10k before I'll need to think about replacing
them. I don't pussy foot when I drive either. I drive hard and fast
and am one of those rare individuals who actually takes his rig off-road
for serious beatings. I'm very hapy with these tires in all conditions
except for deep mud. Soft sand, rocks, hard packed dirt are no problem.
> Also, what is the largest size I can get without rubbing on a stock
>suspension. One dealer told me 30x9.5-15 and another told me
>31x10.5-15. If anyone knows for sure or has experience I would
>greatly appreciate any advice
I run 31x10.50-15s on stock 15x7 aluminum rims. No clearance problem
when the suspension was still stock.
--
Kevin A. Spousta I don't believe in intuition,
d00n@crash.cts.com but I have a feeling that
someday I will.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: robertd@elmer.wrq.com (Robert Dietrich)
Date: 10 Jul 1996 22:40:27 GMT
Marauder72 says...
>If your Toyota is 89 or newer, then you can go to a maximum of 31" without
>ANY rubbing. 32's will fit and won't rub unless you do alot of bottoming
>out. If it's 88 or older, then 30's are the max you should go.
Has anyone ever tried the NWOR 1.5" lift to get 31" on an '88 or older
Toyota 4x4? I have an '86 and have been "toying" with the idea. :)
>one thing, though-if you're going up more than 1 tire size, then plan on
>re-gearing. Stock Toys get sluggish if you put on bigger tires without
>compensating with lower gears.
I suppose 4.88 would be the right ratio for 31s to keep the MPG, power, etc.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: geoeng1@aol.com (GeoEng1)
Date: 10 Jul 1996 23:20:24 -0400
Folks-
I've followed this thread for a couple days now. For what it is worth I
have a 1986 4x4 Toyota Pick Up and run 31x10.50x15 Wild Country RVT Tires
(those of you from the NW states will recognize this as a tire sold by Les
Shwab Tires). When the suspension was stock, I never came close to
bottoming out or rubbing anything. I suspect that 32s would have fit as
well.
Pete
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: dont@email.me (Erick)
Date: 11 Jul 1996 22:15:01 -0700
I have a 88 that i run 31/10.5 and they don't rub. no torsion bar
adjustment or anything. and i do extreme offroading using the full
range of suspension, and they don't rub at all. I would go with
4.56's with 31's. 4.88 may be to low.
erick...
On 10 Jul 1996 22:40:27 GMT, robertd@elmer.wrq.com (Robert Dietrich)
wrote:
>Marauder72 says...
>>If your Toyota is 89 or newer, then you can go to a maximum of 31" without
>>ANY rubbing. 32's will fit and won't rub unless you do alot of bottoming
>>out. If it's 88 or older, then 30's are the max you should go.
>
>Has anyone ever tried the NWOR 1.5" lift to get 31" on an '88 or older
>Toyota 4x4? I have an '86 and have been "toying" with the idea. :)
>
>
>>one thing, though-if you're going up more than 1 tire size, then plan on
>>re-gearing. Stock Toys get sluggish if you put on bigger tires without
>>compensating with lower gears.
>
>I suppose 4.88 would be the right ratio for 31s to keep the MPG, power, etc.
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: rmarsh@plains.nodak.edu (Ronald Marsh)
Date: 11 Jul 1996 14:25:06 GMT
I have a 1980 toyota 4x4 with 32 x 9.50's on it. Stock suspension. No
problems (however I have read that anything over 32's *could* result in
axle breakage - under stress I assume).
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: callahan@ccit.arizona.edu
Date: Thu, 11 Jul 1996 13:12:40 -0700
I have an 83 and on my second set of BFG AT 31 inch tires.
The suspension approximates the stock height and I have
no tire rubbing related problems. The 31 inch BFG introduce
about a 10 percent error on your speedo. Be sure you
maintain the correct offset when using aftermarket wheels.
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Tires for 4x4 Toyota Pickup ??
From: Bjorn Adalsteinsson
Date: Fri, 12 Jul 1996 17:10:20 +0000
John White wrote:
>
> In article <31DF45E5.166B@nando.net>, Roger Harris says:
> >
> >Hi,
> >
> > I know this has been discussed here a few times; but now its time
> >for me to buy new tires for my Toyota 4-wheel drive truck. I've
> >shopped around a bit and like the BF-Goodrich ALL-Terrain's and
> >the Bridgestone Dessert Dueler ATs. Does anyone have an opinion on[lines deleted]
> >Thanks in advance,
> >Roger
>
> I've got Michelin ATX 235's on my 4-cyl. '90 4X4 Xtracab.
> It came with 225s. I love the Michelins. Wet road traction is great.
> Important for Florida.
>
> John
Hi all I hope this is of some help,
I have a '85 SR5 shortbed 4x4 currently running on Armstrong Norseman
32"x11.5x15R but they rub a little when cornering. I had BFG AT 31"x10.5x15R
but I found them too stiff (hard) for my taste and not to my liking in snow.
So IMHO I vote for 30" or 31".
Yours Bjorn Adalsteinsson
bjorna@hugbun.is
PS: The Toy is unmodified
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: montgdj
Date: Wed, 7 Aug 1996 14:07:37 GMT
I ran 31's on my 89' and 94' with no problems at all...............
Derek
>==========Jim Nelson, 8/5/96==========
>
>1986 Toyota 4x4 shortbed, 22RE, 5 speed, 123K miles
>
>I have a question for you. I need new tires for my truck and the
>Sam's outlet here has the best prices. There are two possibilities,
>both are Armstrong brand tires. The first are Armstrong Norseman A/T
>size P235R75LT for $59 apeice, the second choice is the Armstrong
>Desert Dog size 31x10.50 for $69 each. I've had P235's on the truck,
>in fact I have a pair of mud tires that size I run during hunting
>season. My question is, how will 31x10.50 tires affect my drivability
>and mileage. I'd rather go with the bigger tires, since they have a
>little better tread pattern and more tread depth. But I drive about
>20K per year and would hate to give up my on-road drivability. Any
>thoughts on this? Anyone have any experience with the new Armstrong
>light truck tires?
>
>Thanks in advance...
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: ryna10@email.sps.mot.com (Jay Kopycinski)
Date: 7 Aug 1996 17:03:21 GMT
In article <32085668.173035901@news.primenet.com>, dont@email.me (Erick)
wrote:
> Are 4.88's to tall for 31's?
> Erick
> 88 toyota 4X4
> 2.4 liters of raw muscle
I ran 4.88s with 31s and it worked quite well. The tach was turning a
little
faster on the highway, but nothing too drastics at speeds less than 75mph.
-----------------------------------------------
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '91 4Runner (hers)
Arizona Lo-Rangers ASA4WDC UFWDA
Fun Country Fourwheelers SWFWDA TLCA
-----------------------------------------------
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: mbaltzly@apsc.com (Michael Baltzly)
Date: Thu, 08 Aug 1996 19:51:02 GMT
jnelson@southwind.net (Jim Nelson) wrote:
>1986 Toyota 4x4 shortbed, 22RE, 5 speed, 123K miles
>season. My question is, how will 31x10.50 tires affect my drivability
>and mileage. I'd rather go with the bigger tires, since they have a
I have an '85 truck with the carbureted engine and I have had 225s,
235s, 30x9.50s (mostly) and 31x10.50s (currently). You will
definitely notice some decrease in power on the road and loss of
crawling gearing off the road if you get the bigger tires. Will this
be a problem? If you feel like you have plenty of power now then the
loss won't be enough to bother you. If you are think that your power
is currently marginal then you will really feel underpowered when you
install the big tires.
BTW--this will contradict what many others will tell you, but from
experience I recommend that you pick very lightweight, 4-ply (load
range B) tires if you want 31x10.50 or larger on a Toyota truck. The
stiff, heavy tires like BFG ATs or MTs are durable, but compared to a
thin tire like a Goodyear Wrangler RT/S they: 1) give a harsh ride
because of the stiff sidewall, 2) are harder to spin up when
accelerating because of the extra weight, 3) are more prone to give
vibration problems because of the extra weight.
Mike
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: montgdj
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 11:36:32 GMT
I maybe reading this wrong but aren't 235/75R15 the same as
235/75's. Anyway.......I put 31's on two 22RE toy's and put
75,000 mile on them with no problems at all. I did spend a
little extra time in 3rd gear.
Derek
>==========Raymond T. Lowe, 8/6/96==========
>
>
>If you want to know what kind of power and response you will have with
>the 31 inch tires, pull one of the plug wires off.
>
>I put on a set of 235/75R-15 (the original Pirelli Scorpions!) on my 88
>Toy with the 22R-E. These tires were much taller than other 235/75's
>and acceleration was brutal. Wound up buying another set of rubber and
>rims for normal driving and kept the Pirellis for hunting season. Those
>big tires were very hard on the drivetrain.
>
>I say 235/75R-15 is max for the 22R-E without changing the diff ratio.
>
>RT
>
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: amigo@azstarnet.com (Scott Rowin)
Date: 10 Aug 1996 00:38:54 GMT
Yes they will drag the 22RE down a bit.. but the off-road performance
gains are exceptional, and well worth it. On-road, you'll see the biggest
loss in power on 6% grades and the like. My recent trip showed me that,
especially when you're above 5000 feet. Even still, when I was doing some
backroad 4x4ing around Silverton, it was a blast. Had no lack of power even at
12,000 feet... so basically it was speed that was the major problem on
long grades & the like.
I'm looking at redoing my differential to 4.88 to tolerate the larger
tires.. this should bring my RPMs back up to the powerband. Seems like
any slight grades at any kind of altitude makes 5th useless. Why not make
all gears useless.
I also agree that I saw some use of 3rd gear.. kind of strange, but
at least there's some room to do a bit of high RPMs.
--> Scott
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Are 31 inch tires too much for a 22RE?
From: Ray Nurmi
Date: 11 Aug 1996 03:55:14 GMT
amigo@azstarnet.com (Scott Rowin) wrote:
>
> Yes they will drag the 22RE down a bit.. but the off-road performance
>gains are exceptional, and well worth it. On-road, you'll see the biggest
>loss in power on 6% grades and the like. My recent trip showed me that,
>especially when you're above 5000 feet. Even still, when I was doing some
>backroad 4x4ing around Silverton, it was a blast. Had no lack of power even at
>12,000 feet... so basically it was speed that was the major problem on
>long grades & the like.
> I'm looking at redoing my differential to 4.88 to tolerate the larger
>tires.. this should bring my RPMs back up to the powerband. Seems like
>any slight grades at any kind of altitude makes 5th useless. Why not make
>all gears useless.
> I also agree that I saw some use of 3rd gear.. kind of strange, but
>at least there's some room to do a bit of high RPMs.
> --> Scott
>
>
4.88s and 33s would put your rpms and speeds back to near-stock with a few
more rpms.
31s and 4.56s are the same. Stock 225s came with 4.10s. Its probably not a
bad Idea to go with 32s and 4.88s up in the high country. As long as you
arent the type who does 75 mph on the highway.
Then again, with 4.10s, stock tires, and no overdrive in a Scout, I'm
somewhat accustomed to slow speeds myself.
;-) Jeremiah B.
>
>> I put on 31x10.5's on a Toytota 4-Runner ('87). I'm trying to
get back
>> some of that lost power.. I'm wondering if the CAM change route is worth it?
> No. It's not. Get yourself a higher ratio ring and pinion.
>
> Okay, I've just weirded myself out. I'm only used to RWD
>drivetrains, and changing the gears in the pumpkin makes all the
>sense in the world, but what keeps the FRONT wheels driving at the
>right rate in 4WD? Doesn't the front try to drive faster than the
>back if you increase the rear diff ratio?
You have to replace both diffs. if you lower the rear diff (higher #) ratio
your rear tires will try to drive faster.
Aren't you glad you went from hot rodding to 4Xing?
Erick
2.4 Liters of raw muscle
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 9 Aug 1996 13:53:36 +0000
From: "Mike Graham"
Subject: Crane CAMS & CAM changes
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
> > Okay, I've just weirded myself out. I'm only used to RWD
> >drivetrains, and changing the gears in the pumpkin makes all the
> >sense in the world, but what keeps the FRONT wheels driving at the
> >right rate in 4WD? Doesn't the front try to drive faster than the
> >back if you increase the rear diff ratio?
>
> You have to replace both diffs. if you lower the rear diff (higher #) ratio
> your rear tires will try to drive faster.
> Aren't you glad you went from hot rodding to 4Xing?
I'm more familiar with motorcycles, where you just have to throw on
a new $20 sprocket and be done with it. 8-) Something to consider if
I want to change gearing... you have to buy *two* sets of r&p
gears... sucks.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Mike Graham
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// 1981 BJ42 24V Diesel LandCruiser, "No brakes, no problem."
//
// "I think that I shall never see, a thing so lovely as my TLC."
//
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
Date: 09 Aug 96 11:23:15 PDT
From: Norman.Goetz@directory.Reed.EDU (Norman Goetz)
Subject: Crane CAMS & CAM changes
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
- --- You wrote:
Okay, I've just weirded myself out. I'm only used to RWD
drivetrains, and changing the gears in the pumpkin makes all the
sense in the world, but what keeps the FRONT wheels driving at the
right rate in 4WD? Doesn't the front try to drive faster than the
back if you increase the rear diff ratio?
- --- end of quoted material ---
Of course. You might get away with it if used only in really slippery traction
conditions where the torque winding can be relieved. There were some Army 6X6s
which had "automatic" front drive engagement. The front driveline was always
turning, and the front wheel hubs had overrunning pawls that only engaged when
the rear axles slipped 10%. In this setup the front diff was geared 10% higher
numerically. But ratio (and tire) mismatches are generally a no-no.
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 19:34:14 +0800
From: "Ferdinand U. LuDo"
Subject: 15x8 & 15x10 rims on 33x12.5x15's
To: Offroad@off-road.com, TLCAL@tlca.org
Hello offroad enthusiasts:
Got a quick question:
a.) anyone used 15x8 or 15x10 rims on 33x12.5x15's ?
b.) isn't the 15x8's too small for them ? any chances of it popping a bead ?
c.) any difference in handling characterestics between the two rims on the
same size tires ?
d.) for city use and offroad use which of the two is suitable ?
e.) which of the two rims size would most likely pop a bead on real low
pressure tire (e.g. 10-16 psi) ?
Comments are greatly appreciated as usual. In case anyone wants to know the
rims and tires. BFG's Mud-Terrain or BFG's All Terrain. Rims are American
Eagle Alloy Rims. Thanks
Ferdinand
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 10:06:56 +0000
From: "Mike Graham"
Subject: 15x8 & 15x10 rims on 33x12.5x15's
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
> a.) anyone used 15x8 or 15x10 rims on 33x12.5x15's ?
15x10 is the 'proper' size, 15x8 is the size that everyone uses.
> b.) isn't the 15x8's too small for them ? any chances of it popping a bead ?
There's *always* a chance, but everyone I've talked to says the
15x8s hold a bead really nice on 33x12s.
> c.) any difference in handling characterestics between the two rims on the
> same size tires ?
At the same inflation, the 10" rim will give you a somewhat wider
contact patch than an 8" rim. The 8" rim will give you a slightly
taller tire. If you have power steering, you won't notice a real
difference. If you have manual steering, you will notice the 10" rim
to be harder to turn at very low speeds.
> d.) for city use and offroad use which of the two is suitable ?
For boulders, the 8" is more suitable, for sand the 10" is more
suitable, for anything else it's your choice.
> e.) which of the two rims size would most likely pop a bead on real low
> pressure tire (e.g. 10-16 psi) ?
The 10", apparently.
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// Mike Graham
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
// 1981 BJ42 24V Diesel LandCruiser, "No brakes, no problem."
//
// "I think that I shall never see, a thing so lovely as my TLC."
//
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 10 Aug 1996 17:38:54 -0400
From: TNTLCmike@aol.com
Subject: 15x8 & 15x10 rims on 33x12.5x15's
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
i'm running 33 x 9.5's (BFG A/T's) on stock Toy15 x 6" cruiser-chrome rims.
works fine on those rims (the tall 'n narrows are good, depending what you
want to use them for. they certainly handle superbly)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 12 Aug 1996 23:47:55 -0400
From: Ruth Capen
Subject: David Lawrence question
To: NightLight (The Administrator)
you wrote:
>Dave:
>on 8/9/96 i wrote:
>>>>'78 FJ40 body tub & front axle
>>>>'79 rear axle, trans/xfer and 2f motor
>>>>Downey headers, exhaust, shackles, Accel Coil and 32" paws w/cutouts.
>>>
>
>then you wrote:
>Does that mean you have 3.70's in the rear and 4.10's in the front? Just
>wondered :)
>
>yes, it does. At first it was a hassle: everytime i hit paved road i would
>get the hopping aspect from the different ratios, but since i only have
>used both axles offroad it works fairly interestingly- i.e. the rear end
>maintains more power drive control while allowing the front end to drive at
>a lower ratio.,.. what are the dangers of this (if any)?
On high traction surfaces, it is murder on your transfer case gears.
Should i invest
>in even 4.80 gearing fro the rearends and get out of the current setup?
>
I have 4.88's with 36" tires and I love it. It was even better when I had
33's, but it was no fun on the road; it wound out quickly. I would find a
used 4.10 third member to drop in your rear end. They are relatively easy
to find; I have 3 spares right now, but they aren't for sale until I finish
my project and find out if I'm going to start breaking 4.88 pinions. If
4.10's aren't low enough, add the Marlin transfer case gearset. That way,
you still have better highway gears, awesome low-range gears, and 4.10's are
much cheaper to replace than 4.88's
>another question: my backup lights don't activate; wires are good although
>previous owner butchered enough of the stock setup that I'm not sure what
>actually gets through to the harness. How do I accurately check the switch
>itself before replacing it?
>
I am no electrical guru, but I would use a multimeter or test light and
follow the voltage thru the wiring to see if it is making it past the switch
when you put it in reverse. You did check your bulbs, right?
>another Q: what can you tell me about the mallory centrifugal distro? I
>read in downey that the 2f motor requires a full 40=BA of advance- does
>mallory provide the range? (stock carb running with vacuum lines plugged)
========
Newsgroups: rec.autos.4x4
Subject: Re: Goodrich tires, AT or MT
From: dragonpoem@aol.com (DragonPoem)
Date: 12 Aug 1996 23:11:47 -0400
I have used both MT's and AT's and Super Swampers and just bought a pair
of AT's for my 95' Dodge Ram 2500 4X4 and regret not getting MT's every
day. I do a lot of towing and figured that the AT's would be better and
last longer but I have seen no difference in tread life between the two
and have been in many situations that the AT was just not aggresive
enough.
It's not a problem.....I did it on two trucks a 89' and a
94'.....you will spend a little extra time in third gear....
Email me if you want
Derek.Montgomery@Daytonoh.ncr.com
>==========Scott Van Dell, 8/19/96==========
>
>I have a 1993 Toyota 4x4 standard cab, 4 cyl model. I want to put
>31x10.5" tires on it. Can anyone give me any advise on that. Will I need
>to change the gearing on the diffs? I don't want to loose too much
>power. I have a couple of jet skis that I pull and don't want to be
>stuck doing only 50mph on the freeway because it has no power. Please
>advise.
>
>Thanks,
>Scott VanDell
>scottvd@pbinet.com
>svandell@electriciti.com
>scottv@vikingmem.com (Viking Components)
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 10:35:52 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: 4Runner suspension lift
To: "'tlcal@tlca.org'" ,
From: scottb@hubcap.clemson.edu
>Let me start off by saying. I have recently had the opportunity to take
my
>truck OFF-ROAD. Needless to say I thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
>However, it has now prompted queries about lifting my 4Runner and putting
>33" tires on it. I would consider myself fairly mechanically inclined,
but
>have little knowledge about what would be involved or necessary in the
>lifting of my truck.
This may seem like a dumb question, but what do you want to accomplish with
the lift? All tall tires buy you is some additional clearance. On a
4runner, clearance isn't usually the weak link in off-highway ability. Let
me give you a warning about larger tires: Unless you spend a lot of time in
deep mud, deeply rutted roads, or deep snow, consider keeping the stock
size. (even if you do spend a lot of time in "deep doodoo" the money is
better spent elsewhere). Here's several reasons:
* You'll lose low-end torque, because you'll effectively change the gear
ratio. Each rev of the engine will turn the wheel the same number of
degrees as before, but since the radius is greater, you'll turn more
circumference. To circumvent this problem, you gotta change your axle
gears. If you've got the toyota 31" option (which is pretty cool - wish i
had it!) you got the toyota 4.87 gears. Unfortunately, the diff case used
in that gearset is different than the others, so you'll need a whole new
differental (two of em, maybe), plus gears. Otherwise, you probably have
4.10 gears if your truck is a manual, 4.30 if its an auto. It starts
getting real expensive then to do it right, maybe $1000 or more. If you've
got the 4cyl (like me), your 4runner is already too under-powered to get
out of its own way, taller tires will aggravate the problem.
* For the reason above (unless you put on the new axle gears), your
speedometer will read low.
* Bigger tires are heavier, and the weight is all unsprung, so it will beat
your suspension harder, and make for a rougher ride. This can be mitigated
by going with lighter aluminum wheels, but thats expensive. I think its
probably also rougher on the brakes.
* Wider tires cause a little wandering on the pavement, and increase your
rolling resistance. You'll pay for this at the gas pump.
* Your wife, girlfriend, whatever, will complain that its harder to get
into the truck.
* your center of gravity will be higher, making you less stable in turns,
unless you get tires that are somewhat wider, in which case you'll need
fender flares, which aren't real cheap.
* You won't get any extra traction, except in situations where you're
high-centered, which is pretty hard to do. The open differentials on
toyotas is the largest impediment to traction, not the clearance, which is
already best in its class.
Most people want the taller tires because they think they'll get more
traction. The truth is, if traction is your goal, get a traction diff for
the rear (posi or locker) and keep the stock tires. Or, if you prefer, get
a winch. In fact, a lot of folks recommend getting a winch, because a
locker tends to only get you further into the muck where you get REALLY
stuck and then really wish you had that winch...
My truck came with 225/75s stock. I'm running 235s and suffering all those
problems.. I'm going back to the smaller size myself on the next tire
change, and I'm hoping to get a positraction or locker soon. .
In summary, if you're like me and not made of money, I'd spend the money in
getting a winch and lockers at both ends.
[snip]
>- -I've gotten the feeling that lifting with blocks for the rear isn't the
>best way to go. Is this correct? What are my options?
You CAN lift with blocks (if your 4runner is a 84-89), since the springs
are over the axle... I've used extended-length shackles on my rear end, but
I didn't do it to fit larger tires; I did it to correct the 'butt drag'
look 4runners get. Shackles aren't a bad way to go; it doesn't really
change the ride any. Same with blocks; except blocks can contribute to
wheel hop, but that's not a problem unless you got a rear torquey motor.
Add-leafs work too, but make for a stiffer rear end ride in an
already-stiff vehicle. Replacement springs are a good way to go, but more
expensive. If you've got a 1990+ 4runner, you've got a coil-sprung rearend
and you'll have fewer options.
>- -Will re-gearing be necessary, or is that an option for more power?
Yes, if you put 33's on, especially if you are running 225s now...
Check out the 4runner page at
http://www.off-road.com/4x4web/toyota/4runner.html
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 1996 21:22:32 +0000
From: Willem-Jan Markerink
Subject: 4Runner suspension lift
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
On 16 Oct 96 at 10:35, Eric Johnson wrote:
> * Bigger tires are heavier, and the weight is all unsprung, so it will beat
> your suspension harder, and make for a rougher ride. This can be mitigated
> by going with lighter aluminum wheels, but thats expensive. I think its
> probably also rougher on the brakes.
Tall and skinny tires is one solution....
> * Wider tires cause a little wandering on the pavement, and increase your
> rolling resistance. You'll pay for this at the gas pump.
They do not increase rolling resistance, but do increase wind
resistance. At high speed, they even decrease rolling restance, by
using only the mid section of the tire because of centrifugal forces.
> * your center of gravity will be higher, making you less stable in turns,
> unless you get tires that are somewhat wider, in which case you'll need
> fender flares, which aren't real cheap.
Those same wider tires will increase the danger of tipping over, due
to more lateral grip. This is probably the same thing that made the
Isuzu Trooper end up in that US magazine.
Both these facts are stated over and over again in the German
Offroad, Europe's leading 4x4 mag. And German Autobahns are an
everyday's test site....;-))
> * You won't get any extra traction, except in situations where you're
> high-centered, which is pretty hard to do. The open differentials on
> toyotas is the largest impediment to traction, not the clearance, which is
> already best in its class.
You do get more traction, but mainly on dry pavement. Aquaplaning and
offroad will get worse, unless bottomless sand and snow. But given
the same foot print, a tall skinny tire is always better than a wide
one.
- --
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 10:59:54 -0700
From: Rob Spratt
Subject: Rim Size??
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
Hello Fellow Land Cruiser Brothers!
I have recently bought new '33 x '12.50 15's for my BJ42. I am in the
process of buying your basic white spoke steel rims for them. Now I
have heard all sorts of conflicting reports about what width to go with on
the new rims. Some are saying 10 inch and others are saying 8 inch.
Please give me some advice because I have heard both suggestions but
am still confused as to what to get. I want to buy the rims that will do the
best for this tire size and my vehicle. Please advise me on which width
to get and why? I do want to buy the rims in the next couple of days.
Help me O Wise Ones!
Thanks!
Rob Spratt
ras@enrich.com
1981 BJ42 Land Cruiser
(The Green Beast)
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 11:28:59 -0800
From: Park Owens
Subject: Rim Size??
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
Rob Spratt wrote:
>
> Hello Fellow Land Cruiser Brothers!
>
> I have recently bought new '33 x '12.50 15's for my BJ42. Some are saying
> 10 inch and others are saying 8 inch. I want to buy the rims that will do
> the best for this tire size and my vehicle. Please advise me on which
> width to get and why?
>
> Rob Spratt
Rob,
A lot depends on how you are going to use your vehicle. Whether you want a
very wide footprint for sand or want to protect your wheels from rocks.
I do mostly rock crawling and have run 8" wheels since I completed my
restoration several years ago. My current set-up is 35x12.50x15 Dunlop Mud
Rovers on 8" Superior Steel Wheels.
Cheers,
- --
Park Owens '76 FJ-40 '88 FJ-62 TLCA 2569
powens@silver.sdsmt.edu Dakota Territory Cruisers
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 25 Nov 1996 15:44:18 -0800
From: Chase Gregory
Subject: Rim Size??
To: TLCAL@tlca.org
Rob Spratt wrote:
> I have recently bought new '33 x '12.50 15's for my BJ42. I am in the
> process of buying your basic white spoke steel rims for them.
> Please advise me on which width
> to get and why? I do want to buy the rims in the next couple of days.
It does make a difference what tire it is and what you'll be running...
I had some 33x12.5 Cooper STT's on 10" rims and they were WIDE...I only felt
safe airing down to around 15psi. Plus, they rubbed my calipers and/or
tierod ends so I had to space them out. And it was easier to catch the lip
of the rim on an outcropping rock. I'd have traded anyone for some
8 inchers.
Now I'm running 36x12.5 Swamper TSL/SX's on 8" rims and am AMAZED at the
difference. The rims are very well protected, I can easily air down to 5psi
(my current guage does'nt go lower), and the rim fits w/o endangering other
components. Not an excellent comparison, granted, as I'm describing two
different size and type tires.
33's on 8" rims will be slightly taller than on 10's.
- --
Chase Gregory
Project Architect
TMA Incorporated International
http://www.surfsouth.com/~tma_inc
'83 FJ60, '69 FJ40
TLCA #3071, ORD, TLCAL
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 1997 20:45:51 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: reply about Thornbirds
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
This in in response to Jay Wieder about the Thornbird tires.
I really enjoyed the tires even after 60,000 miles they only have slight
cupping (normal for a soft compound tire). I did rotate regularly and
varied the air pressure between 15 psi and 25 psi depending on how the
tread was looking.
I only have one problem with the tires. I always thought that they were
slick in the rain (slicker than super swampers). As they wore they got
slicker (I have had the rear end pitch out driving at highway speeds in
rain storms).
If you have a shell or a 4runner they would probably work a lot better
because of the weight. I plan on going back to Super Swampers.
They have less road noise than Super Swampers. If you have not ran bais
ply tires you would have to get used to the road steer.
They do not flat spot like the Super Swampers do.
I would recommend them, but I let people know that I will not buy them
again because of them being slick.(remember its my opinion). The ride is
like any other 33 inch bias ply tire. I have been running Interco tires
for so long I am very used to the ride and the way they handle(road
steer) of bias ply tires. Hope this helps with your decision.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 1997 11:46:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Questions?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I have a few questions.But first some info : Presently I have an 81 Toy
> w/ a 6" shackle lift(which is becoming illegal in Pa, where I live!) and
Your shackles are a foot longer than stock?? no way...
> running 30" Vagabond Radials ( running low on cash at the time.). I have
> a custom wooden bed --due to rust-- which bounces around terrible. One
> thing --This is my daily driver.
> 1) How good are Super Swamper TSL Radials? Will they be ok as daily
> driving tires? Noise? Wear?
The TSL's are a decent daily driver tire. They are much quieter than the
bias TSL and TSL-SX. They are also much quieter than Thornbirds (if you
were wondering). A friend just bought a set of 36x12.50 Radial TSL's, and
they are fairley quiet and smooth. The only real downside to the radials
is that most sizes aren't near as aggressive as there bias counterpart.
In fact, some sizes only have sipes between the tread lugs. So, if you
can, try to see a set up close in real life. His are also very
narrow--about 9" of tread width (or maybe it was 8", I forget). They also
have a softer compound than the bias plys. So far, he has about 3-5000
miles on his, and they look the same as they did when new. They actually
look like a Super Swamper style Buckshot Radial Mudder.
If you have any 4x mag laying around, try and find that one WARN add, with
the red CJ-3b. It has either 33x12.50's Radials or 33x10.50's Radials on
some narrow rims.
> 3) Any help on weighting my back end?
Spare gas tank, tools, fullsize spare tire, big HD bumper.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 1997 09:44:41 -0500 (EST)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Questions?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-02-15 14:48:33 EST, you write:
> The TSL's are a decent daily driver tire. They actually
> look like a Super Swamper style Buckshot Radial Mudder.
>
> Jonathan Albrecht
> albr9619@uidaho.edu
> http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
>
>
I was really disappointed when I got my Swamper Radials. I had been running
Buckshot radials for a year, and I was hoping that the Swampers would be more
agrssive. They may look like the Buckshots, but the are MUCH better. The
ride actually resembles a normal tire, not a horse buggy. The say they are
33 x 12.50 but like you say, they have a very narrow contact patch. I do
agree that they are pretty nice on the road, and I have not noticed much wear
for the last 10,000 miles. As for noise, it is hard to tell due to my
exhaust, but again they are much quiter than the Buckshots.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 10:18:40 -0600
From: "Wilbur M. Yegge"
Subject: Buckshot vs. TSL
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
You cant go wrong with super swampers. Exept for some minor flat
spotting in the morning. I got thirty five thousand miles out of a set
of TSL steel belted meats with plenty of off-roading and tire broiling.
Plus they'll never let you down traction wise. They ride smooth enough
on the road for anyone exept the most extreme powder puff. Right now Im
running some 36.5-14.00 Grand Prix Four Wheel RVT's, and they blow
either Buckshot or Super Swamper(exept for the bogger) away. I know from
experience.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 1997 17:32:14 -0600
From: Jonathan Miller
Subject: Swamper Radial vs. Buckshot
To: Toy 4X4 List
I had a set of 38 X 15.50 Swamper Radials and was very impressed with
their on-road performance. I put over 20,000 miles on them (mostly
highway), and there was still half of the tread left. (I kept them
rotated regularly, and had my front end alignment checked regularly)
Overall, the Swamper Radials are MUCH quiter than Buckshots, and seem to
last better on the road. I also agree with other posts that the
Swampers are just as good and/or better than the Buckshots in the mud.
I must say that the initial tread depth of the Swamper Radial is not as
deep as the Buckshot or regular TSL's. However, this is why you have
good on-road characteristics. And the tread does not wear as quickly as
the other designs, so you are just as well off with the radials.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 09:27:33 -0600
From: Jonathan Miller
Subject: Swamper Radial vs. BFG Mud T/A
To: Toy 4X4 List
I have run both the Swamper Radials and the BFG Mud T/As. I would have
to say that the BFG is a much better on-road tire. The Swampers are
very good on-road compared to most tires that aggressive, but the BFG's
have VERY good ride characteristics, even when they begin to wear.
As far as off road goes, I think the Swamper is a better mud tire, but
for all around general purpose the BFGs are fine. One thing that limits
the BFG is that the widest you can buy is 12.5". I would kill to have
some 35 X 14.50 BFG Mud Terrains.
I would recommend the BFGs if you are going to do quite a bit of highway
driving. If highway is not much of a concern, then you can't beat the
Swamper Radial--the most aggressive radial tire made.
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 1997 22:07:21 -0700
From: Tony Bartlett
Subject: tires, tires,tires
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Another input about tires. A long time ago, I wish I could remember the
conversation, I talked with the people at Interco about there tire. I
heard rummors about them coming out with a wider radial and had to
check. They were not planning on it. He gave me good information about
the difference between bias and radial. The big difference in the
Swampers it the radials do not have the Three Stage Lug look like the
bias. The reason behind this is the sidewall of the radial is not
strong enough to handle the stress of having big lugs.
I almost went to the radial but I like the look of the bias tire.
Remember, any information you get really doesn't matter, its personal
preference. I like the bias Swamper, even though I hate the road steer,
the ride, flat spots in cold weather and everything else "bad" about
bias tires. I still can not convince myself to get radials. The
sidewall is not as strong so it is prone to getting cut easier, even
though I do not know anyone who has had sidewall problems with radials.
After I install my 5.29's I might try and get 33X950 BFG's for road
travel and keep my Swampers for trail runs.
Once again have fun trying to buy a new set. All the info out here is
good but what do you like?
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 24 Mar 1997 22:51:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: 32" tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> >What I hear is that you can fit a 32" fine. I plan to get some 32"
> >mud-terrains for my 88 'Runner as soon as I can afford them, and they'll
> >have to go on my stock SR5 rims, as least for now. I have a 2" lift,
> >and after talking with people, I expect no rubbing, even when they're
> >crammed up in the wheel well. With no lift you might get minimal
> >rubbing, but we're talking extreme articulation. With 33" no questions,
> >they will rub.
> >Scott
> I believe that the SR5 rims are 7"? I have aftermarket 15x7s and the
> people who sold me my tires *strongly* advised agianst 32x11.5s claiming
> that the sidewall would roll and weaken and that the tread would wear
> prematurely. They even said something about voiding the tire warrenty, but
> that may have been hot air. Was I lied to?
> -Greg
Not necessarily. I almost couldn't talk the tire shop to mount 32's on my
15x8's (he thought I needed at least a 10" rim) but the book proved him
wrong, and he mounted 'em up. If the book by the manufacturer says that
the minimum rim is a 15x8, than you could be voiding the warranty.
I did notice though, that BFG for instance recommends an 8.5-10" rim with
their 33x12.50's. And plenty of people run them on 15x8's.
Yes, running a tire on a really narrow rim (below manufactures spech) is a
bit harder on it. The center tends to wear out faster. The 31x10.50's
that came on my p/u with stock 15x6's had about 40,000 miles on them, and
while the center was worn a bit more than the rest, they still held up
pretty good. If you messed with the pressure you may not even have that
problem. Also, as a tire get's taller, you can get away with more. Some
people run 39.5x18" tires on 15x10's, and they look fine (no personal
experiences here, just what I've seen in the parking lots), and not at all
like the rim is too narrow. Also (FWIW) that one Lund 'show' S-10 run's
31x14.50 cepeks on 15x8's. ..Don't know how good of an idea this is...but
it does show what you can get away with.. One guy in town that I talked to
a bit was running 32x12.50 mickey's on stock 15x7's, and had never had a
problem, though they did look a little too wide for his rims.
Anyway, FWIW.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 2 Apr 1997 05:24:05 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: BFG AT's
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Mike wrote:
"...how would you rate BFG all Terrains to Mud Terrains?"
If you are going to see mud - at all - avoid the BFG AT's. They have left
me buried more than once, even in incredibly dry (except for winter)
central California. I found a better all-terrain tire with good mud
traction to be Bridgestone Dueler AT 691's, at about $20 less each.
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:02:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: Toy4x4s@aol.com
Subject: BFG MT's
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
The last set I bought 2 years ago in Denver CO was 32x11.5x15 and they cost
me $117 per tire with roadhazard and all. I bought them from Discount Tire. I
can not say one bad thing about Discount Tire... Their warranty is truly no
quibble!!! Tire flat or torn apart, they fix or replace!
Someone mentioned the Uniroyal Laredo MT... I LOVE this tire!!! It is by far
the quietest aggressive mud tire I've ever had! Back in 91 I bought a set of
"Blems" (blemished tires). It was the same size as above (32's) and it cost
me $93 per tire! Now it wasn't from Discount Tire, so I didn't get the
spectacular tire protection... These tires were QUIET!!! If I could have
afforded them the time I bought the BFG's 2 yrs ago I'd have bought them... 2
years ago I couldn't find any blems and the price was like $145 ea! Oh, they
were also just as good as the BFG's off road.
As far as what kind of wear to expect out of these mudders... well it all
depends on at what point you consider your off road mudders to be worn out...
For a mudder to be effective and most awesome off road it needs to have those
big lugs... So I consider mine worn out when they reach about 1/4 in tread
left... I believe that we have 30k or more on the 2 year old set. The saw a
lot of street driving.
June Bennett
TLCA 2942
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 11:11:08 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: BFG MT's
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Mon, 7 Apr 1997 Toy4x4s@aol.com wrote:
> The last set I bought 2 years ago in Denver CO was 32x11.5x15 and they cost
> me $117 per tire with roadhazard and all. I bought them from Discount Tire. I
> can not say one bad thing about Discount Tire... Their warranty is truly no
> quibble!!! Tire flat or torn apart, they fix or replace!
Same goes for our local Costco. 8 bucks buys you mouting, 'lifetime'
balancing, rotation, and they'll repair/replace the tire as necessary for
the 'life of the tire'. Also, they're cheaper than the catalogues too!
> Someone mentioned the Uniroyal Laredo MT... I LOVE this tire!!! It is by far
> the quietest aggressive mud tire I've ever had! Back in 91 I bought a set of
> "Blems" (blemished tires). It was the same size as above (32's) and it cost
> me $93 per tire! Now it wasn't from Discount Tire, so I didn't get the
> spectacular tire protection... These tires were QUIET!!! If I could have
I mostly agree with you on the Uniroyal MT. It's a great tire. I've had
a bit of experience with both the Laredo's and the BFG's (muds), and this
is what I've found:
The Laredo's are cheaper (my 32's were 105 a piece)
The Laredo's are better in mud (more spacing between the lugs)
The Laredo's are easier to 'pop' because there is more spacing between the
lugs, and therefore it's easier for a big sharp rock to get in there.
(speaking from experience).
The BFG's seem to be very slightly higher quality rubber, and consistantly
balance better than the Laredo's
They are both very quiet (for the first year anyway, time will tell if
they get any noisier), and both seem to wear pretty well. The Laredo's
are a touch higher pitched sounding, but perhaps quieter...both seemed
pretty darn quiet.
Which would I get? If I planned to keep the truck for a year or two, the
Laredo's--they simply outperform the BFG's and are cheaper (that's why I
bought them for my last truck, which I knew I was going to sell the
following summer).
If I planned to keep the truck for longer than the life of the tire,
definately the BFG. They cost more up front, but the rubber holds up
better. After 4xing, I would notice a few big chunks of rubber missing
from the tread (up to 1/4"x1/3"), and more cuts in the tread than my
friends BFG's. The BFG also balance better, and the closer lug spacing
really does help to protect the carcas from cuts/holes...and even though
the Laredo's do work better in mud, my friend's BFG's have always managed
to keep up with my Laredo's.
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 7 Apr 1997 17:10:20 -0700
From: rmurray@gvn.net (Rick Murray)
Subject: Mud Terrain prices
To: TOY4X4@TLCA.ORG
I live in near Sacramento California (2 hours from Rubicon).
I bought BFG 33-12.50-15's for $120 each (about 3 years ago) plus mount, balance,
etc. Super Shops had the best price. They sell them for about $125, today.
After about 30,000 miles, they have about half the tread left, and have never
gone flat or left me stranded ( I've done Rubicon, Fordyce, Barret,
& Dusy trails with them, so they haven't been babied).
##################################################################
Rick Murray 84 Toyota 4Runner SR5
rmurray@gvn.net stock 22R motor ; 3" ProComp Lift
http://www.gvn.net/~rmurray/ 8" steel rims; 33" BFG M/T
Rancho Cordova, Ca. 4.88 gears; Marlin TCase #67 ; TRD LSD
################################
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 08:07:58 -0500
From: The Brauns
Subject: BFG MT's vs BFG Mud Kings
To: ToyotaStuff
I thought I'd add my .02 to the BFG MT debate -
I've owned both 33x12.50 BFG Mud Terrains & 33x12.50 BFG Mud Kings - the Mud
Kings are just as good a mud tire (almost the exact same pattern), flex just
as well as the MT's, make the same amount of noise on the road, but seem to
last a little longer.
The big benefit of the Mud Kings is that they're always CHEAPER! Four Wheel
Parts has them for $117.20 - not sure what they get for mtg/bal but you
generally save about 20 bucks per tire going with the Mud Kings!
Stan
- --
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:16:59 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: Mud Terrain prices
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Rick wrote:
>I live in near Sacramento California (2 hours from Rubicon).
>I bought BFG 33-12.50-15's for $120 each (about 3 years ago) plus mount,
>balance,
>etc. Super Shops had the best price. They sell them for about $125, today.
>After about 30,000 miles, they have about half the tread left, and have never
>gone flat or left me stranded ( I've done Rubicon, Fordyce, Barret,
>& Dusy trails with them, so they haven't been babied).
I'm with Rick, Super Shops has the best prices around here too, I bought
my 33x12.50 BFG M/T's from them for $122 each plus mount/balance. And
around here it was just the opposite for the Mud Kings, the only places
I could find that sold them wanted $10 more per tire for the Mud Kings ...
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB's - 4.88's
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:57:04 EDT
From: jeff4cars@juno.com (Jeffrey Samler D Samler)
Subject: tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I would opt for a slightly larger tire, like 31x10.5's but I recently
> drove my friends 89 Toy Xtra Cab, it seemed like it would take NOTHING
> to TIP it. (Which he has done) I dont want my truck to be so
TIPheavy.
This stuff scares me. I was running 32's (and I thought it was real
stable) and plan to go 35's minimum on my next truck!
Go for the 35's. I have 35's on my toy with 7 inches of lift and it is
perfectly stable, it barely even leans on winding back roads doing at
least 40mph.
Jeff 1989 PU SR5 V6
jeff4cars@juno.com 5-speed
35x12.5 Dunlops, 7 in. lift
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 08 Apr 1997 21:50:13 -0500
From: Jack Alford
Subject: tires
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
Jeff wrote:
>Go for the 35's. I have 35's on my toy with 7 inches of lift and it is
>perfectly stable, it barely even leans on winding back roads doing at
>least 40mph.
In my opinon, the size of the tires really have nothing to do with how
stable the truck is, it's the stiffness of the suspension. With my
soft springs, the body on my truck LEANS. It's not really that big a deal,
it really more of a psychological thing.
- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Alford Off-Road.com - The best dirt on the net!
jalford@off-road.com http://www.off-road.com/
Decatur, AL
'86 Xcab Toyota Pickup - 33x12.50 BFG MT
Solid Front Axle - Marlin Crawler - ARB
SFWDA - TLCA #3415 - Rocket City Rock Crawlers
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 9 Apr 1997 13:59:09 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Questions...
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> any suspension mods or gearing mods. How much will this affect my
> speedo and are there any things I should woory about, i.e. addidtional
> suspension wear and tear, bad for engine, etc..? I/m assuming that my
> truck has the 4.1:1 gearing.
It should effect the speedo by about (30.5/28)= about 9%. IE, it will
read about 9% low at all speeds.
I personally haven't had any problems, or seen much (if any) additional
wear running 31" tires. I have found that running heavilly negative
offset rims (stick out really far) generally makes more difference than
tire size. For instance, my friend (Jeff) who drives his p/u easier than
I do has needed two alignments in the three years he's had it (running
31's on 8" 'standard offset' rims). I ran 31's on stock rims for a year,
and 32's on some 8" 'correct offset' rims (didn't stick out at all), and
never had a problem. But then again, another friend (Paul) running 36's
on some very negative offset 15x10's hasn't had any problems either, and
yeah he does jump the truck often...so maybe Jeff's just unlucky. I dunno.
The biggest difference you most likely notice is power. IMHO a 4cyl truck
can run up to 33's with stock gearing fine, but not everybody agrees with
this!
Good luck,
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 12 Apr 1997 14:56:02 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: Questions of my own
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jim Brink wrote:
"...there has been a lot of talk about
All-Terrain T/As vs Mud Terrains. Well,
the time has come for me to buy new tires
and I am torn as to wether I should stay
with the All-Terrains or try the M/Ts.
Most of the trail work I do is rocky/sandy
washes with some smooth rock stuff thrown
in (Death Valley/Anza-Borrego type trails).
I occasionally venture into the Eastern
Sierras but I do not get into too much snow
or mud."
I have had the BFG A/T T/A's and did not like them as much ANYWHERE as I
like my current Bridgestone Dueler A/T's (D691). They wear longer, have
better off-road traction in any terrain I have used them in, and were a
couple bucks cheaper than the BFGs.
For desert use, I swear by Goodyear Wrangler HT's, and not just because
they used to sponsor our car. They are a highway tire in design, but the
4-ply sidewall offers incredible resistance to flats from rocks, cactus,
etc. They come in up to a 33" (32.5" actual) 12.5 - 15 size. The most
reliable tire I've ever used off-road.
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 97 13:26:00 -0500
From: Rosenberger Bud
Subject: Dueler ATs
To: "mail@UUCP {Toy4x4@tlca.org}" ,
I've had BFG AT's (32") for 2 Buffalo NY winters so far and I love them!
I had no trouble in snow up to about 15" and even when it was real wet,
They cleaned out really well. On the road they are well behaved and
don't "push" in the slush like others I've had. They aren't as good in
the mud as I'd like, but I knew that going in. They don't look as good
as "mud" tires but I drive them 50 miles per day so who cares. BTW, I
have about 24,000 miles on them and I don't think i've worn them more
than 1/8"! I'll buy another set next time. My '64 Chevy, will get MT's
because I rarely drive it on the road.
Hope this helps!
Bud
----------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 11:21:51 -0400
From: "penny"
Subject: Tires and tire pressure
To:
I just bought a set of 35-12.50-15 General Grabber M/Ts for my 82 toy 4x4
and was wondering (mileage wise) how long they will last.What is the
correct (street) tire pressure? The shop that mounted them sent me on my
way with 35 p.s.i. any help would be appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Apr 1997 15:10:29 +0600
From: Scott Hollister
Subject: Tires and tire pressure
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
At 11:21 AM 4/28/97 -0400, you wrote:
>I just bought a set of 35-12.50-15 General Grabber M/Ts for my 82 toy 4x4
>and was wondering (mileage wise) how long they will last.What is the
>correct (street) tire pressure? The shop that mounted them sent me on my
>way with 35 p.s.i. any help would be appreciated.
>
>
Penny-
I have the M/T's in 33's. The grip great, but I don't think I will get the
mileage that a BFG M/T gets. I do, however, see them perform better in some
situations than the BFG's. I run mine at 25-28 psi.
>
Scott Hollister
shollist@vt.edu
84 xtracab 33's EZ Locker, Onboard Air,
Dual Batteries, Front Axle Forward 1" 5.29's.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:34:55 -0400
From: "R. W. 'Butch' Stiles"
Subject: What size tires?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
>
> > I have a stock 1993 Toyota PU w/22RE.
> > What size tires can I get away with without the tires rubbing the
> > fenders keeping my 15" stock rims? Any suggestions?
>
> 31x10.50's work fine on the stock 15x6" rims. You may be able to fit
> something taller (not sure), but you wouldn't want to go any wider on
> those rims.
> __
> Jonathan Albrecht
> albr9619@uidaho.edu
> http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
Jonathan,
When I bought my '93, the previous owner had squashed 31's onto the
stock 6" rims. The resulting roll in the tires was not only annoying
but dangerous as well. The MINIMUM width for the 31x10.50 tire is 7"!
I DO NOT, for safety reasons, believe that those tires should be mounted
on anything less, and a smart tire shop won't mount them on anything
less than the minimum recommended rim. If they care about lawsuits
anyway. I still get the willies just thinking about that truck lurching
into a corner feeling like it was going over any second. My .02 anyway.
- --
Butch Stiles
rokitman@erols.com
Just as it says, "Rocket Man"
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:59:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: What size tires?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, R. W. 'Butch' Stiles wrote:
> Jonathan Albrecht wrote:
> >
> > 31x10.50's work fine on the stock 15x6" rims. You may be able to fit
> > something taller (not sure), but you wouldn't want to go any wider on
> > those rims.
> > __
> > Jonathan Albrecht
> > albr9619@uidaho.edu
> > http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
>
>
> Jonathan,
> When I bought my '93, the previous owner had squashed 31's onto the
> stock 6" rims. The resulting roll in the tires was not only annoying
> but dangerous as well. The MINIMUM width for the 31x10.50 tire is 7"!
When I bought 15x8 rims, the largest tire size recommend was 32x11.50.
These rims are 2 inches wider than the factory rims and worked well with
32x11.50 BFG AT.
Dr. Karl Bellve
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:00:52 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: What size tires?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> > > I have a stock 1993 Toyota PU w/22RE.
> > > What size tires can I get away with without the tires rubbing the
> > > fenders keeping my 15" stock rims? Any suggestions?
I wrote:
> > 31x10.50's work fine on the stock 15x6" rims. You may be able to fit
> > something taller (not sure), but you wouldn't want to go any wider on
Butch wrote:
> When I bought my '93, the previous owner had squashed 31's onto the
> stock 6" rims. The resulting roll in the tires was not only annoying
> but dangerous as well. The MINIMUM width for the 31x10.50 tire is 7"!
> I DO NOT, for safety reasons, believe that those tires should be mounted
> on anything less, and a smart tire shop won't mount them on anything
> less than the minimum recommended rim. If they care about lawsuits
> anyway. I still get the willies just thinking about that truck lurching
> into a corner feeling like it was going over any second. My .02 anyway.
This makes me wonder if maybe your tires were perhaps wider than mine.
I had wild country radial rtv's on my truck. I dunno, it sure seemed
just 'fine' on the 15x6's. But you're probably right, it's not the best
setup, and I suppose it could be dangerous, it just didn't seem that way
on my truck. The tires didn't fit strange or wear weird in my case
either.
I think the best bet for someone wanting to run 31x10.50's would be to
get some used Toyota steel 15x7's, or some other aftermarket rim (used).
I once got a full set of perfectly strait chrome 15x7's for 15 bucks,
kinda rusty, but otherwise fine. Then I traded them for a set of chrome
15x8's, strait across. Check your junkyards, and keep your eye's open
for later model v6 trucks (that might have had the 31" tires) and later
model 4runners with aftermarket rims. Ask the owner if they still have
the old wheels--some people will sell them real cheap.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 09:32:09 -0400
From: lewis winston
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
We need to get some info on tires, wheels and gearing for our recent
purchase of our 84 Toyota. It came with 35x14.50 M/T Baja's on Bart offset
wheels and the rear gears were changed to 4.88's. The front gears are stock
but we are considering changing to 4.88's as well. We also have 3" body and
3" susp
to fit the tires. We did not do the mods and we think they may be a little to
extreme for long term use and reliability.
We are considering the front gear change and a change in tire size to
33x12.50's as we believe this will improve the ride and reliablity over the long
term. Most of our use will be for daily driving and for use in sand for
surf fishing.
This is our 4th Toyota 4x4 and the second 84 and we want to keep it
around. Any info that we can get would be greatly appreciated.
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 02 May 1997 11:02:15
From: Ed Ruf
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
AT 09:32 5/2/97 -0400, lewis winston wrote:
> We need to get some info on tires, wheels and gearing for our
recent
>purchase of our 84 Toyota. It came with 35x14.50 M/T Baja's on Bart
offset
>wheels and the rear gears were changed to 4.88's. The front gears are
stock
>but we are considering changing to 4.88's as well.
Front and rear gears are different? What ever you don't use 4wd.
Ed
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 07:42:01 -0800
From: "CONRAD"
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To:
From: lewis winston
> Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
> Date: Friday, May 02, 1997 5:32 AM
> We need to get some info on tires, wheels and gearing for our
recent
> purchase of our 84 Toyota. It came with 35x14.50 M/T Baja's on Bart
offset
> wheels and the rear gears were changed to 4.88's. The front gears are
stock
> but we are considering changing to 4.88's as well.
Consider no longer. You must change gears, or all you have is a two wheel
drive truck. The only situation that will allow you to SAFELY use 4-wheel
drive right now is driving on ice. With different gears at each end, if
you engage 4-wheel drive on a surface that gives both axles good traction,
they will turn at different speeds. This will quickly reveal the weak
links in your drive train. With luck, it will be u-joints. It could,
however, take out ring and pinions or transfer case. Get those gears
changed as soon as you can.
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851
conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 10:43:06 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
CONRAD wrote:
> > We need to get some info on tires, wheels and gearing for our
> recent
> > purchase of our 84 Toyota. It came with 35x14.50 M/T Baja's on Bart
> offset
> > wheels and the rear gears were changed to 4.88's. The front gears are
> stock
> > but we are considering changing to 4.88's as well.
>
> Consider no longer. You must change gears, or all you have is a two wheel
> drive truck.
Well, lets be open minded here... he could run shorter tires on the front :)
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 13:14:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Dr. Karl Bellve"
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
On Fri, 2 May 1997, Eric Johnson wrote:
> >
> > Consider no longer. You must change gears, or all you have is a two wheel
> > drive truck.
>
> Well, lets be open minded here... he could run shorter tires on the front :)
>
I thought about this too, but then he would have to have them wear at the
same rate assuming that he started with the correct diameter tires to make
up for the different gears. 4x4 Tractors are like this, but they work on
soil and there is plenty of slip there.
It is always funny to see people with 4x4s with different manufacturer
tires on front and back and some even with different sizes (not much but
noticable). I assume they hate their transfer cases. It is always a good
idea to replace all 4 tires at the same time. IMHO
Dr. Karl Bellve
Biomedical Imaging Group
University of Massachusetts
WWW : http://molmed.ummed.edu/~kdb/
Email: kdb@molmed.ummed.edu
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 11:39:27 -0700
From: Eric Johnson
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: "'Toy4x4@tlca.org'"
Dr. Karl Bellve wrote:
> On Fri, 2 May 1997, Eric Johnson wrote:
> > > Consider no longer. You must change gears, or all you have is a two
wheel
> > > drive truck.
> >
> > Well, lets be open minded here... he could run shorter tires on the
front :)
>
> I thought about this too, but then he would have to have them wear at the
> same rate assuming that he started with the correct diameter tires to
make
> up for the different gears. 4x4 Tractors are like this, but they work on
> soil and there is plenty of slip there.
I didn't really intend anyone to take me seriously, but what the heck... :)
A toyota truck or 4runner 4WD system needs a little slip anyways; so slight
differences in diameter wouldn't be the end of the world if you only used
4WD in situations where there is some slip (which you should be doing
anyways!).
One of the 4x4 mags had some truck (quagmire?) that was set up this way
too. It was a pretty clever setup. For practical purposes, though, I don't
see any reason to do it on a toy, and agree they person with the 84 should
change their gears to match.
> It is always funny to see people with 4x4s with different manufacturer
> tires on front and back and some even with different sizes (not much but
> noticable).
I saw an old cherokee 4x4 driving down the road the other day, and I don't
think any two of his tires were the same size! I tried to reach him on CB
to razz him about it, but he either didn't have it on or was ignoring me :)
>I assume they hate their transfer cases. It is always a good
> idea to replace all 4 tires at the same time. IMHO
agreed.
- --
- -- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 97 15:46:00 -0500
From: Rosenberger Bud
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: "mail@UUCP {Toy4x4@tlca.org}" ,
Perhaps he was doing "scientific wear/destructive testing" similar to
those "scientific dirt tests" I've seen bumper stickers warn about!!!!
----------
> It is always funny to see people with 4x4s with different manufacturer
> tires on front and back and some even with different sizes (not much
but
> noticable).
I saw an old cherokee 4x4 driving down the road the other day, and I
don't
think any two of his tires were the same size! I tried to reach him on CB
to razz him about it, but he either didn't have it on or was ignoring me
:)
>I assume they hate their transfer cases. It is always a good
> idea to replace all 4 tires at the same time. IMHO
agreed.
--
-- ej@blarg.net
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:25:54 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-05-02 14:16:01 EDT, you write:
> > Well, lets be open minded here... he could run shorter tires on the front
:)
> >
>
>
> I thought about this too, but then he would have to have them wear at the
> same rate assuming that he started with the correct diameter tires to make
> up for the different gears. 4x4 Tractors are like this, but they work on
> soil and there is plenty of slip there.
>
> It is always funny to see people with 4x4s with different manufacturer
> tires on front and back and some even with different sizes (not much but
> noticable). I assume they hate their transfer cases. It is always a good
> idea to replace all 4 tires at the same time. IMHO
>
>
> Dr. Karl Bellve
As to "hating their transfer cases", I think not. this is not a problem
since such a setup would only be used in off road conditions i.e. loose dirt.
The minimal difference in tread wear from front to back is not really a
factor. If you want to be picky, you could measure and see that your tires
are not the same exactly. Tire preasure must be the same also, but it
usually is a bit off. The system can handle some variation.
Lots of guys around GA, TN, NC run different size tires. The adjust the
gears accordingly. This is not a problem since such a setup would only be
used in off road conditions, i.e. loose dirt. This is a specialized thing,
and they use these "hybrids" to go straight up mountains. I do mean STRAIGHT
UP. I have seen some of the trails, and you honestly could not stand up
without something to hold on to. the smaller size in the front helps keep
the front on the ground. Usually they have 44s on the back, and 36s up
front.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 2 May 1997 18:29:22 -0700 (PDT)
From: Jonathan Albrecht
Subject: Tires, Wheels and Gearing, 84 Toy
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> As to "hating their transfer cases", I think not. this is not a problem
> since such a setup would only be used in off road conditions i.e. loose dirt.
> The minimal difference in tread wear from front to back is not really a
> factor. If you want to be picky, you could measure and see that your tires
> are not the same exactly. Tire preasure must be the same also, but it
> usually is a bit off. The system can handle some variation.
I agree. I ran some very bald 31x11.50's (later 31x10.50's) on one end,
and ok different brand 31x11.50's on the other, and ran it like that for
about 4 months. And none of the tires were really close to the same
size. Not a good idea I know, but if you only use it in mud...I dunno,
it worked fine.
__
Jonathan Albrecht
albr9619@uidaho.edu
http://www.uidaho.edu/~albr9619/
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 5 May 1997 06:32:02 -0700
From: "Todd and Terry"
Subject: 30-11.5 tires
To:
(snip)
> Somebody on this list has 30 x
> 11.50 tires and I want to know how they like them because I have 31 x
> 10.50 Firestone Firehawk RMT's and I want to go wider (for looks) and
> shorter (for power and ride comfort). My 31's rub and I think body lifts
> suck and IFS lifts and too expensive for me right now (snip)
Sorry to hear about your hood, at least you managed to keep it under
control. I run 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's on 15x8 American racing Type 26
wheels. I do not have any lift on my truck. They will fit (just) at full
stuff when we're up on the rocks. They do not rub anywhere, at 10 psi,
there's about a 1/4" clearance at the back of the front wheelwells.
Performance wise, they are outstanding in the rock, outstanding in mud, dig
for china in the snow (8 psi) and are okay on the street. They are noisy
(good stereo takes care of that) and wear rapidly. I'll be taking mine off
and putting stockers back on for my work commute.
Hope this helps
Todd
87 Toyota 4X4, EZ Lockers F/R, 30-11.50-15 TSL SX's, 15X8 AR 26's,
RS 5000's, Ramsey front bumper, Custom Nerfs, Custom rear bumper,
Custom body by Sierra Nevada.
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 21 May 97 10:38:00 -0500
From: Rosenberger Bud
Subject: Tires
To: "mail@UUCP {Toy4x4@tlca.org}"
I have BFG ATs on my 85 truck and they work great in snow and slush
(32x11.5 on 8" rims). I have used them for 2 Buffalo/western New York
winters and am extremely happy with them. They even clean out ok in deep
(12') stuff when I go to got firewood. I had trouble with the last tires
i had with Pushing ( understeer in snow/slush ) but they were more of a
mud tread( I think they were Centennials or Kelly safari's) The BFG
literature said that the ATs were better in snow than the muds and they
seem correct. Hope this helps!
Bud
----------
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 97 22:20:29 -0600
From: bwiencek@kcnet.com
Subject: Super Swamper Thornbirds
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
All,
Does anyone have expierence with Interco's Super Swamper Thornbirds?
What I was wondering is if they are fairly quiet on teh highway at 65 or so?
I'm currently running 35" Dunlop Radial Rover RV's on my truck - they replaced
the BFG Mud T/A's which I hated - too loud (howling), and I have 31" Big O AT's
on my 4 runner. I want to keep the noise down, but I like the aggressive look
of the thornbirds. I'll accept a little more noise, but not much.
- - Brian
------------------------------
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 22:02:33 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Super Swamper Thornbirds
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I just gave my set away, they had practically no traction and were
useles except when I was in a V shape muddy area when the side treads
kicked in, I'd suggest something else, epecially if you want them to be
quiet
- --
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:04:10 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Tires
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-06-25 16:29:10 EDT, you write:
<<
Trying to decide between Super Swamper Thornbirds or BFG M/T's, 33x12.50's
on
15x8.5 rims.
Any recommendations/opinions as to traction/mileage/treadlife/hiway ride
differences if anyone has tried on or both of these?
[yeah, I know..if i knew better back then I would have gone with 15x10 rims]
--
Jason Matthews >>
Why 15x10's? I like my 33x12.5 Swamper radials on 15x8 rims. I beat the
piss out of the rims ( they have seen the business end of a hammer way too
aften - look nowhere near round now) and I shudder to think what would happen
with 10" rims. The tires do roll a little, but not much. the narrower rims
are protected by the tire sidewall.
I have watched several people blow a bead on a tire while on the trail.
Every time it was due to wide rims. for example:
33x14.5 tires on 15x14.5 rims - blew.
38x15.5 tires on 15x15 rims - blew.
33x12.5 tires on 15x10 rims - blew
see a trend?
Narrower rim also lets you air down lower (within limits)
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 21:50:48 -0700
From: Scott Wilson
Subject: New rubber!/Good shop
To: Toy4x4
My little 4Runner got it's first set of Mud Terrains this
afternoon...brought a tear to my eye. :_( Not!
I got my 32" Bridgestone Dueler MT's!! Awesome tire, from what I know
so far. They look awesome for one! And two, they're A LOT quieter than
I expected on pavement, not much louder then my AT's.
I also want to put in a plug for The Tire Rack.
(http://www.tirerack.com) Awesome service! They were very nice on the
phone, charged a very fair price for their tires, have a few wherehouses
so you're tires aren't coming from too far, and they're fast! I ordered
them Tuesday at about 9am (maybe 10am). I was told to expect them UPS
on Friday. My mom calls me up at work today at 3:30pm. The tires just
arrived!!! That's about 30 hours for delivery!!! (And it's not like I
live next door to a wherehouse...the tires came from Reno) Very
impressive when a business EXCEEDS your expectations by that much!
Scott
- --
_____
/_/_|_\__ Scott Wilson
| _ _ : Santa Clara, CA
*/_\---/_\' http://www.scruz.net/~barneym/scott
(_) (_)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 17:57:03 -7 GMT
From: "Leo G. Divinagracia III"
Subject: Wheel Solutions?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
>
> Since we're kind of on this subject, I'm looking to get some mud tires for
> our notoriously muddy California winters (kidding...). What we have is not
> slick goo or gumbo like in the East, but adobe clay. It sticks and don't
> let go. I need an open tread pattern to throw it off; all-terrain tires
> turn into slicks when they come into contact with adobe mud.
yokohama super diggers. the original ones. Y826 i believe. although checking
out the yokkie's web site (yokohamatire.com), they've been reclassified as
highway terrain (HT), all terrain (AT) and mud terrain (MT). my yokkie super
dig-'ems (as i like to call 'em) are now classified as the ATs. the super-
digger IVs or Vs are now the HT and the MT are still MTs.
if you checkout the dog-bone pattern of each lug, you can't seem to find a way
to pack mud into 'em. as for the MT ones, ivan stewart used to run yokkie MTs
during the mickie thompson stadium races days (boy, i miss that racing and RIP
to MT himself...) until BF goodrich made him richer.
>
> I was pondering the Swamper TSL Radials. Anybody have any experience with
> them? I will not be using them for lots of highway driving or anything like
> that. They'll go on in December and off in March, and definitely be off for
> any desert/Baja/road trips.
>
man, just checking out the tread pattern on those, i can't really think about
driving them on the pavement for long distances. i'd put them in a trailer and
change into the when i'd arrive. the swampers are great though once you hit
off road...
i haven't been disappointed with my yokkies. now that they are starting to
wear down, i heard that costco was dumpin' them for around $55 each. i got
them at costco for about $75 each a few years ago. the tire rack
(www.tirerack.com) is selling them for $86 each (these are for the 31x10.5"
ones...).
the only time them gave out on me was during one rainy day in hollister. all
day it's been raining and i followed wrangler through this trail that half has
collapsed and disintegrated on the left side. he was locked F&R with ARBs and
he made it. i followed, only to dropped more. no matter what i did, i just
buried myself and was in danger in falling onto a cliff on the left side. that
was it. he had to strap me out...
- -----------------------
Leo G. Divinagracia III
ldivinag@csuhayward.edu
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 16 Jul 1997 23:57:17 -0400 (EDT)
From: DRM033@aol.com
Subject: Wheel Solutions?
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
In a message dated 97-07-16 20:57:01 EDT, you write:
<< yokohama super diggers. the original ones. Y826 i believe. although
checking out the yokkie's web site (yokohamatire.com), they've been
reclassified as highway terrain (HT), all terrain (AT) and mud terrain (MT).
my yokkie super dig-'ems (as i like to call 'em) are now classified as the
ATs. the super-digger IVs or Vs are now the HT and the MT are still MTs.
Those Yok's are great. One thing I live about the MTs is that they come with
a little lip over the edge of the rim for some protection. Now that is
function.
> Super Swamper Radials:
man, just checking out the tread pattern on those, i can't really think
about driving them on the pavement for long distances. i'd put them in a
trailer and change into the when i'd arrive. the swampers are great
though once you hit off road... >>
I have SS radials on my truck now. They are great! I have had buckshot
radial mudders, Mud kings, and Sport kings. The Swampers are by far the best
on and off road. They are kinda loud, but what mud tire is not? As for
ride, they are very nice. I do have the 33x12.5's on 8 in rims, so there is
a small ammount of tire roll. I will take the roll over unprotected rims any
day.
David
DRM033@aol.com
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 17 Jul 97 13:59:00 -0500
From: Rosenberger Bud
Subject: Wheel Solutions?
To: "mail@UUCP {Toy4x4@tlca.org}"
Hi Nick,
My friend has Swamper TSL SX non radials (33 x 15.5 on 12 " rims) on
his Chevy 3/4 ton truck. He loves them in our mud and swamps. They
clean out pretty well but he has lots more power than we do to get them
spinning. He has 23K miles on them and they are less than 1/2 worn. He
had Ground Hawgs on it before and they only lasted 12K. He drives them
on the road every day. They do howl some but not too loud. He has Mud
Kings on another truck and they scream so you can't hardly talk.
I've had Buckshot Mudders on a 3/4 ton Ford that was just a farm truck.
We plowed and pulled everything else out of the mud with it (like a
tractor with wagen behind it!). They also cleaned out real well.
Hope this helps!
Bud
----------
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 18 Jul 1997 11:44:57 -0700
From: Wiley Davis
Subject: wheel Size
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have had no problems running 35" 12.5 BFG bajas on 6" wide samurai
wheels (don't ask) aside from being a pain to mount (good luck finding a
shop to do it) they worked just fine. We commonly ran 3-5psi and never
lost a bead. Granted the baja is a stiffer tire, but the same held tru
w/ 33" all-terrains.
I personally don't like anything wider than a 7" rim, unless your going
wider than 12.5 which is stupid unless your running SODA or something.
As for forged wheels, i beleive Alcoa makes a one piece forged wheel, as
does Ultra. The forging is merely a blank that has to be machined to
spec. Cast wheels usually have a rougher -porous finish, and are prone
to cracking (as opposed to bending) and they are almost impossible to
properly weld.
whitespokes work well for now, but I want beadlocks eventually. ihave
read stories of dirt-ttack and SCCA guys of using shhet-metal screws as
cheap beadlocks...who knows?
- -Wiley davis-
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:49:01 -0700
From: nickkrest@batnet.com (Nick Krest)
Subject: BFG's ATs
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
john skaggs wrote:
"What does RN stand for?"
That's the model designation for the US pickup, kinda like ZX for the
Nissan sports car. My particular truck is an RN44, for example.
As far as the BFG's cupping, it's never happened with the Bridgestones or
Goodyears I've had on since then. And yes, I ran thru a set of tire with
the same suspension as the BFG's.
Nuts and Bolts:
Tires: BFG A/T T/A's vs. Bridgestone Dueler A/T's
Size: Both 31 x 10.50-15 - load range C
Inflation: 24 psi front, 22 psi rear
Open diffs, 3.90 gears, 80-90% on road mileage.
I feel that the BFG's were simply inferior to the Bridgestones in every
way, including traction on- and off-road, tire wear (both mileage and
patterns). Both sets were rotated and balanced every 5000 miles. I got 30k
out of the BFG's, and 50k out of the 'Stones.
BTW, if I seem kinda cranky this week, it's because my soon-to-be bride
just showed me what the wedding is gonna cost me. I could almost go to the
local Toy dealership and say, "one of each model, please, and I'll be
paying cash," instead of feeding my future in-laws. I think she thinks I
owe it to her family after 13 years of living together with no piece of
paper. I'd prefer the drive-thru wedding chapel in Vegas, with the services
performed by an Elvis impersonator. Sorry for any (unintentional, really)
tweaks.
- Nick
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 24 Jul 1997 23:46:59 -0800
From: "CONRAD"
Subject: Re:BFG's ATs
To:
> From: Nick Krest
> Subject: Re:BFG's ATs
> Date: Thursday, July 24, 1997 10:49 PM
> As far as the BFG's cupping, it's never happened with the Bridgestones or
> Goodyears I've had on since then. And yes, I ran thru a set of tire with
> the same suspension as the BFG's.
Did all of the BFGs cup, or was it just one? I am the Asst Manager of a
tire shop. I talked this over with the guys today, and none of us has seen
this happen to more than one tire out of a set unless there was a
mechanical problem. If it was more than one they must have all come from
the same bad lot. This is not typical of the BFGs at all. You probably
could have gotten a replacement set from BFG.
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851,conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
69 FJ40, 79 FJ40, both stock
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 26 Jul 1997 08:21:22 -0500
From: "John Schultz"
Subject: BFG's Self Destructing(was Speed)
To:
Day before yesterday I stopped along the highway because there was a Toyota
truck broken down. ( I always try to get Toys going as quick as possible,
Toys along the Highway are bad for the image). Anyways, he had 31x10.5 BFG
AT's on his truck. His drivers side front tire did the same thing that my
BFG AT's did last September, they started throwing very large chunks of
sidewall off at highway speeds (not good). My tires actually made it to
the next Wal-mart where the really bad one was replaced. I purchased a
whole new set of tires (not BFG's) the next week. The tires that remained
on the truck had very deep cracks running from the tread, diagonally
towards the rim down the sidewall. This is the second time I have seen
this on BFG AT's and I have never seen it with any other brand. Does
anyone else have any experience with this?
John
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 27 Jul 1997 20:41:33 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Tacoma body lift
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
> I think i want the Super swamper TSL/Radials(33x12.5's), any
> body had any expierience with these tires such as noise/mileage?
I had them, they only lasted about a year and were awesome in mud. I
threw it into reverse once and those tires threw mud clods so big that
there were worms crawling out of the mud attached to my mirrors. They
are very loud and rough but I don't regret getting them, just wouldn't
get them again. They are extremely poor in wet weather on pavement
though.
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 28 Jul 1997 21:58:14 -0700
From: Brandon Miller
Subject: Tacoma body lift
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Doug Berger wrote:
> >
> These were the TSL Radials, not the regular SS TSL's? Doesn't Interco
> (Super Swamper) make any tires that are a more "on-road" tire?
>
> Doug Berger
- --
Those were the bias-ply's (but if you look at my web page you'll notice
I've had both). The radials last longer but are a good inch shorter and
narrower. Out of the 7 sets, yes 7, my favorite tires are the one's I
have now, BF goodrich MT's. You can try them all like I have or go
ahead and get the BF's now. I have not heard a bad word from anyone
that drives the BF's and they have gotten me through the rubicon and
frdyce(sierra trek) this year allready. I think that they are also the
best snow tire, no question about it the TSL radial are the best mud
tire but you sacrifice too much for it. Bottom line, go BF
Oh yeah, the Interco thornbirds are a waste of money, useless... had
them too
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Brandon Miller email: sac78483@saclink.csus.edu
Sacramento, CA millerb@gaia.ecs.csus.edu
url: http://gaia.ecs.csus.edu/~millerb/4x.html
1983 Toyota LB locked F&R, 5.29:1 gears, roll cage, etc. etc.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Wed, 30 Jul 1997 22:58:03 -0700
From: wgirindra@bbs.fronet.com (Wilkin Girindra)
Subject: 35" vs 33"
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Just thought I would add my .02 worth to this subject.
I have 1st hand experience with this as I've had both
35's and 33's in the last year.
I really liked my 35" BFG MT's until I rolled my 81 Toy
last November. This roll had more to do with driver error
than anything else but I sure enjoy my new lower center of
gravity with my 33" Yokohama Mud Diggers.
35" advantages: The 2" of extra height makes an unbelievable difference
in ground clearance, and the 35's seem to have superior traction.
33" advantages: quite a bit lighter, I have superior power with the
5.29 gears I have. Lower center of gravity, doesn't require as radical
a lift. And finally: way less hassle with the police. I was frequently
getting pulled over by the police when I had the 35's and 6" lift so that
they could
see my safety inspection sticker, haven't been pulled over yet with
the 33's and 4" lift.
This subject is definitely subjective but these are just my observations
of my own personal experience.
Wil
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Thu, 7 Aug 97 12:37:26
From: jason.hay@nashville.com
Subject: 4.10 gears w/31" tires
To: toy4x4@tlca.org
i've got bridgestone duelers h/t on my truck and have gotten about 90k
miles out of 'em this is only my second set for this truck. the last set
went for 90k too. i'm on the road mostly rotate and keep them at 32 psi.
anyone how such luck with the bridgestone a/t's? to the guy wanting to
know about the bfg's i'd say go with the dueler h/t's if your on the road.
jason
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: 7 Aug 1997 15:58:38 U
From: "Jay Kopycinski"
Subject: Tire preferences
To: "Toyota 4x4 List"
Subject: Time: 3:49 PM
OFFICE MEMO Tire preferences Date: 8/7/97
Jason Matthews wrote:
>Not to bring it up again, but looking for personal experiences from people
who
>have run both BFG AT's and MT's.
I've not seen a big difference in mileage or wear between ATs and MTs.
The MTs are louder, but far out perform the ATs in pretty much everything
but soft sand.
In general, I think the BFGs with the 3 ply sidewall are too stiff on small
vehicles like Toyotas. However, since I play hard in the rocks, the heavy
sidewalls are great for resisting sidewall cuts and bruises.
My four current vehicles have 31" ATs, 32" MTs, 33" MTs and 35" MTs.
______________________________________________
Jay Kopycinski '85 Toylet (ROKTOY)
Gilbert, AZ '85 4Runner
ryna10@email.sps.mot.com '91 4Runner
http://www.netzone.com/~jayk
Arizona Lo-Rangers 4WD Club TLCA #3243
______________________________________________
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 8 Aug 1997 01:58:47 -0400 (EDT)
From: JCVR4@aol.com
Subject: Tire preferences
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
>I have 32" AT's now, trying to decide between 33x12.50 AT's or MT's and
>wondering how much mpg difference and mileage [wear] difference to expect
>between the two. Liked the AT's alot, just tired of sandblasting my rockers
>every time I run down a gravel road or driveway where the AT's pick up the
>gravel, and hoping the MT's will avoid that and get me some extra traction
>without too many sacrifices.
I have BFG MT's on my truck, although I have only had it a few days, this is
what i have found: They get good traction, but are quite loud. I am not sure
about the mileage, but I have been told that both the AT's and the MT's last
awhile. Are you planning on running 33" with stock gearing?
I have an extra set of Goodyear Wrangler HT/S Tires that the past owner took
off and put one the MT's. Are the HT/S's any good?
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 00:36:16 -0700
From: James Brink
Subject: Dick Cepek F-C Radials: Any thoughts? (besides there expensive)
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
Greg Smith wrote:
>
> Is anyone out there running Fun Country Radials, or do you know anyone who
> is?
> How do they drive on the road?
> Any wandering?
> Good traction in the rain?
> Do they run quietly?
> Any good in the snow?
My friend runs the 36/16.5R-15s on his '85 SR5 std. bed. They ride very
well on the road but have some wander (although I attribute this more to
his suspension set up).
Overall traction seems quite good in all types of terrain except mud.
They load up quite quickly and do not clean-out very well.
Before purchasing the radials, my friend was using the bias-ply version
and the radials are a marked improvement, especially on the highway.
- --
Jim Brink 1986 Standard Bed 4X4/22R/M5
Toyota/ASE Certified Technician 32"BFG All-Terrains
(brinkjm@earthlink.net) LockRight/4.10 Gears
***********************************************************************
TLCA# 6184 / Friends of the Mojave Road (FOMR) / MRVMA-DESERT EXPLORERS
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 1997 11:41:26 -0800
From: "CONRAD"
Subject: Dick Cepek F-C Radials: Any thoughts? (besides there expensive)
To:
> From: Greg Smith
> Subject: Dick Cepek F-C Radials: Any thoughts? (besides there expensive)
> Date: Saturday, August 09, 1997 8:16 AM
> Is anyone out there running Fun Country Radials, or do you know anyone
who
> is?
> How do they drive on the road?
> Any wandering?
> Good traction in the rain?
> Do they run quietly?
> Any good in the snow?
I ran 36s on my FJ60 for a year or so, then went up to 38s. The only
objection I have with them is hydroplaning in standing water. A little
work with a grooving iron will cure that. Excellent traction in/on
everything else except for deep, sticky, mud. Outstanding in the snow,
they are the tire of choice for winter excursions into the interior of
Iceland.
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851,conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
69 FJ40, 79 FJ40, both stock
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
------------------------------
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:37:03 -0000
From: runars@isbank.is
Subject: Dick Cepek F-C Radials: Any thoughts? (besides there expensiv
To: Toy4x4@tlca.org
I have driven the same LC 80-series with 38" mudders, 38" FC, and 35"
BFG ATs and in snow the mudders are superior in all aspects (Did a 4 day
glacier cruising on the FC few months ago, and they simply just don't
bite....). The mudders also don't hydroplate in slush (loose wet road
snow) as FCs. The FCs are hairraising in those contictions. However,
they are superior on the pavement and other roads. More silent, grip
better, and are of better quality. Not sure if the last any longer tho.
The FC are not the choce for winter excursions in Iceland, the Gumbo
mudders are (That is in the sizes at and below 38"). THe FC are very
popular as summertires, and are the only 44" tires sold (almost). The
44" Fun Country is in a class by itself and is actually as diffrent from
the rest of the line as 38"FCs are to mudders....;-)) Note that on a
44" tire, the lugs of the Funny rubber is just as big as those of the
38" mudder.....;-))
BTW, the grooving Iron does a good job of improving them tho.
Runar, alive and kikking in Iceland.
> -----Original Message-----
------------------------------
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:07:32 -0800
From: "CONRAD"
Subject: Dick Cepek F-C Radials: Any thoughts? (besides there expensive
To:
Runar,
You obviously don't go 4-wheeling with the same group I did. What I saw,
and heard, was that the Mudders were best in very early or very late winter
when the snow was extremely wet and slushy. Other than that they all
preferred the FCs. In fact, Benny told me that Cepek sends over 25% of
it's production of FCs to Iceland. That is a significant amount
considering your small population. The guys at Solning near Keflavik
grooved mine, and the performance was greatly improved in the wet stuff. I
have made several trips into Landmannalauger, Thorsmork, Hveraviller, onto
Langjokull and Vatnajokull (sorry if the spelling is incorrect) with the
FCs in the winter. I could not have asked for a better tire. In February
of 95 we went into Landmannalauger, and some people who were running
Mudders tried to follow us. They could not get over the first big hill
past the power station because the Mudders were digging too much. Which is
better, Mudders or FCs? I guess it depends on when and where you're going.
I'll stay with the FCs.
jc
Jack Conrad, BIG TOY, TLCA # 3851,conrad@mosquitonet.com, North Pole, AK
84 FJ-60, coils over leaf-over, 350,38s, ARB
69 FJ40, 79 FJ40, both stock
92 Extra-Cab, coils over leafs, 5.29s, ARB, 35s
Land Cruiser, don't leave the pavement without one!!
------------------------------
--------------